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Sen Tzue
Caldari Eve Co-Operative Association
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Posted - 2006.08.30 23:27:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Sen Tzue on 30/08/2006 23:30:29
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Sen Tzue There is no Insta problem. Just as there is no "play the game as intended".
There is only a desire by Pirates (a class of people who obviously don't want to work for their money) to have it be easier to Pirate. Its pathetic and I wish they'd stop wasting bandwidth talking about it.
Fixed
Fixed the fix.
Oh look, I can be snarky and clever too.
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Zaldiri
Caldari Automated Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.30 23:36:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Zaldiri What is being advocated is that the most boring aspect of travel be in increased in length to cover for a decrease in length in a more interesting aspect (the time when you move to the gate).
If you call being an easy kill for anyone and everyone 'interesting'. I find situations where setups and tactics dictate who wins more interesting than 'oh look this guy had the next minute and a half to pound the crap out of me', but apparently that's just me.
I will admit, often traveling to the gate is not very interesting. However it is always more interesting than sitting around like a lemon in warp.
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Zaldiri (And yes I know I keep banging on about the invulnerability; I know about the other side of the gate, and I know about bubbles. When I say invulnerability I refer exclusively to being invulnerable on the side of the gate you warp to in a situation where there are no bubbles.
Rewriting this quote: 'And yes I know I keep banging on about the invulnerability; I know about using other tactics, and I know about using other equipment. When I say invulnerability I refer exclusively to one particular situation, because outside this one situation my argument does not apply.
Oh yeah, thanks for this. Turning a nice little qualifier of mine (that's only purpose was to bring the context I was using "invulnerability" in into line with the context the devs were using in in when they discussed the issue) into a bad attempt to undermine my argument.
----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
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Zaldiri
Caldari Automated Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.30 23:51:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Crumplecorn Oh, so you are actually advocating that every man and his dog be able to completely lock down a gate? That a gatecamp requires no skill or even the slightest intelligence to pull off? As opposed to the system now, where good gatecamps can stop ships, and bad ones just see them warp off into the distance?
I also recon systems with signs of gatecamps, and if the camp doesn't have bubbles, and doesn't look particularly good, I'll just plough through. Sometimes my stabs and instas are enough to get me through, sometimes the camp is too good and I pop.
There are lots of ways to break a poor gatecamp without instas, you can beat them off, use a cov-ops as a mobile warp point, kill the tackler and run for the gate. The only differentiation you make between a poor gate camp and a good one is a warp bubble, and there not really a great deal of organisation or skill using that to be honest.
And I haven't actually posted my full, module based, replacement of instas in this thread yes. So you don't have a full picture of what I actually am advocating.
----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
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Tonkin
Singularity.
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Posted - 2006.08.30 23:52:00 -
[34]
BMS 4TW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BTW THATS IS MY KITTY |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sen Tzue Edited by: Sen Tzue on 30/08/2006 23:30:29
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Sen Tzue There is no Insta problem. Just as there is no "play the game as intended".
There is only a desire by Pirates (a class of people who obviously don't want to work for their money) to have it be easier to Pirate. Its pathetic and I wish they'd stop wasting bandwidth talking about it.
Fixed
Fixed the fix.
Oh look, I can be snarky and clever too.
Now learn to close quote tags and you're set. ----------
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:42:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Zaldiri
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Zaldiri What is being advocated is that the most boring aspect of travel be in increased in length to cover for a decrease in length in a more interesting aspect (the time when you move to the gate).
If you call being an easy kill for anyone and everyone 'interesting'. I find situations where setups and tactics dictate who wins more interesting than 'oh look this guy had the next minute and a half to pound the crap out of me', but apparently that's just me.
I will admit, often traveling to the gate is not very interesting. However it is always more interesting than sitting around like a lemon in warp.
My point was, I'd rather be stuck in warp for ages than be ganked at every second gate.
Originally by: Zaldiri
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Zaldiri (And yes I know I keep banging on about the invulnerability; I know about the other side of the gate, and I know about bubbles. When I say invulnerability I refer exclusively to being invulnerable on the side of the gate you warp to in a situation where there are no bubbles.
Rewriting this quote: 'And yes I know I keep banging on about the invulnerability; I know about using other tactics, and I know about using other equipment. When I say invulnerability I refer exclusively to one particular situation, because outside this one situation my argument does not apply.
Oh yeah, thanks for this. Turning a nice little qualifier of mine (that's only purpose was to bring the context I was using "invulnerability" in into line with the context the devs were using in in when they discussed the issue) into a bad attempt to undermine my argument.
This doesn't undermine your argument, it obliterates it. You're saying bms are bad because they make you invulnerable, except that when you say invulnerable you mean only in a certain situation. This is on a par with:
BMs guarantee* invulnerability! *Not a guarantee ----------
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:43:00 -
[37]
As a freighter pilot, I would really rather not go any slower.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:46:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Zaldiri
Originally by: Crumplecorn Oh, so you are actually advocating that every man and his dog be able to completely lock down a gate? That a gatecamp requires no skill or even the slightest intelligence to pull off? As opposed to the system now, where good gatecamps can stop ships, and bad ones just see them warp off into the distance?
I also recon systems with signs of gatecamps, and if the camp doesn't have bubbles, and doesn't look particularly good, I'll just plough through. Sometimes my stabs and instas are enough to get me through, sometimes the camp is too good and I pop.
There are lots of ways to break a poor gatecamp without instas, you can beat them off, use a cov-ops as a mobile warp point, kill the tackler and run for the gate. The only differentiation you make between a poor gate camp and a good one is a warp bubble, and there not really a great deal of organisation or skill using that to be honest.
And I haven't actually posted my full, module based, replacement of instas in this thread yes. So you don't have a full picture of what I actually am advocating.
Ok, here we go, I'm going to keep this simple:
Me in hauler. Bad people on other side of gate. I warp through and try to get away. If they can't tackle or instapwn me, I get away. If they have enough tacklers or enough firepower I go pop.
Ways to break the camp by getting other people involved are irrelevant, I'm talking about whether the camp is good enough to pop ships.
The difference between a good and a bad gatecamp is whether they pull either of these off. If you think a bubble is what makes a good gatecamp, then you really do need an easy mode. ----------
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MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.08.31 00:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Sen Tzue There is no Insta problem. Just as there is no "play the game as intended".
There is only a desire by Pirates (a class of people who obviously don't want to work for their money) to have it be easier to Pirate. Its pathetic and I wish they'd stop wasting bandwidth talking about it.
Have you ever tried camping a gate to catch the pirate on his way to sell his ill-gotten goods?
If not, let me give you some advice. Don't bother. His instas make it flat-out impossible to stop him.
Score one for people being vehemently anti-pirate but still wanting instas nerfed.
Camp the otherside of the gate????/
Let bubbles be used in .1-.4??
Warp to 0km????
ZOMG PROBLEM SOLVED!()*&@!(*&@!! -=====-
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Siege
Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2006.08.31 01:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: MysticNZ
Camp the otherside of the gate????/
Let bubbles be used in .1-.4??
Warp to 0km????
ZOMG PROBLEM SOLVED!()*&@!(*&@!!
So, basically, you want to almost totally eliminate PvP combat within empire space. Even for declared wars. Because that is what a "warp to 0" will do.
Congratulations, you just created "Veldspar Tycoon"
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