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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1814
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Posted - 2014.10.23 12:42:59 -
[91] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Maraner wrote:
Ummm no. I understand how the hyperspatial rigs work mkay, plus the ascendancy clones and the low slot mods. I just object to the nerf that this imposes upon the Battleship.
I have no prob if people want to AU nano up their BS's warp speed at the cost of tank / dps or the use of a slave clone, the problem is they shouldn't have to do that to keep up with everything else subcap.
Plus as pointed out by other people these ships have fallen off in their use significantly, perhaps this could be something that could be done up their use.
They have never been used much in small roaming gangs. Battleships are ships of the line, they are not built for chasing stuff down like cruisers and never have been. The only issue here is with the pilots not the ships. They are your typical EFT warriors who simply look at the numbers and say a ship is no good without spending any time flying them. Lets face it, there are few bigger fans of battleships than me, if there was an issue with battleships as a whole I would say something. Battleship are fully able to terrorize the space lanes
YET rail tengus are on par if not superior to battleships as ships of the line. And warp faster.
Battleships are not worth right now the TIME to travel.
And you must remember Battleships are not only for your large fleets. THey need to be usable as well on more moderate fleets. Like 10-20 people. There is no reason to bring a battleships instead of a T3 or pirate cruiser.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13699
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Posted - 2014.10.23 13:11:43 -
[92] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
YET rail tengus are on par if not superior to battleships as ships of the line. And warp faster.
Battleships are not worth right now the TIME to travel.
And you must remember Battleships are not only for your large fleets. THey need to be usable as well on more moderate fleets. Like 10-20 people. There is no reason to bring a battleships instead of a T3 or pirate cruiser.
T3 are in line for a savage nerf.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1814
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Posted - 2014.10.23 13:49:59 -
[93] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:
YET rail tengus are on par if not superior to battleships as ships of the line. And warp faster.
Battleships are not worth right now the TIME to travel.
And you must remember Battleships are not only for your large fleets. THey need to be usable as well on more moderate fleets. Like 10-20 people. There is no reason to bring a battleships instead of a T3 or pirate cruiser.
T3 are in line for a savage nerf.
I only believe.. when I see it.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1335
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Posted - 2014.10.23 14:17:45 -
[94] - Quote
I'm pretty sure BC and BS don't see much small gang anction more because people think they don't bring enough positive to counter the drawback of being in a BS. You do get something out of it but I think people see it as not enough. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1815
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:02:25 -
[95] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:I'm pretty sure BC and BS don't see much small gang anction more because people think they don't bring enough positive to counter the drawback of being in a BS. You do get something out of it but I think people see it as not enough.
Exaclty my point.
In 0.0 fleets their main drawback is denied by titan bridging, and they present one important bonus of being cheap to replace by replacement programs when insured.
But on smaller scale combat, in low sec and high sec wars they are HORRIBLE. They will have to jump to get where they are needed and usually the profile of ships in these scenarios is completely different, and most ships have fittings costing half a bil or more (therefore insurance of the ship is irrelevant).
Battleships are not used because they are BATTLESHIPS, when they are used, they are because they are cannon fooder that have enough ehp to be kept alive and they are cheap to replace.
That was nto supposed to be the reason to use a battleship.
If you need to wait a few more minutes for a battleship to arrive or bring a T2 or pirate cruiser .. you will not select the battleship (with the exception of the armageddon, Vindicator and Bhalghorn that fulfill specific roles), because they do not bring enough to justify the time.
Give battleship sized local repair/boost more oomph (will impact small scale fights but not 0.0 blobs), give them a bit more cap and EHP, give them easier fittings, and give them a tad more dps ( any MEDIUM blaster boat can outdps several battleships.. that is not healthy)
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13699
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 15:08:25 -
[96] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:baltec1 wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:
YET rail tengus are on par if not superior to battleships as ships of the line. And warp faster.
Battleships are not worth right now the TIME to travel.
And you must remember Battleships are not only for your large fleets. THey need to be usable as well on more moderate fleets. Like 10-20 people. There is no reason to bring a battleships instead of a T3 or pirate cruiser.
T3 are in line for a savage nerf. I only believe.. when I see it.
Its in the balance chart. They are slated to land between t1 and t2 cruisers.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13699
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Posted - 2014.10.23 15:17:48 -
[97] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:I'm pretty sure BC and BS don't see much small gang anction more because people think they don't bring enough positive to counter the drawback of being in a BS. You do get something out of it but I think people see it as not enough. Exaclty my point. In 0.0 fleets their main drawback is denied by titan bridging, and they present one important bonus of being cheap to replace by replacement programs when insured. But on smaller scale combat, in low sec and high sec wars they are HORRIBLE. They will have to jump to get where they are needed and usually the profile of ships in these scenarios is completely different, and most ships have fittings costing half a bil or more (therefore insurance of the ship is irrelevant). Battleships are not used because they are BATTLESHIPS, when they are used, they are because they are cannon fooder that have enough ehp to be kept alive and they are cheap to replace. That was nto supposed to be the reason to use a battleship. If you need to wait a few more minutes for a battleship to arrive or bring a T2 or pirate cruiser .. you will not select the battleship (with the exception of the armageddon, Vindicator and Bhalghorn that fulfill specific roles), because they do not bring enough to justify the time. Give battleship sized local repair/boost more oomph (will impact small scale fights but not 0.0 blobs), give them a bit more cap and EHP, give them easier fittings, and give them a tad more dps ( any MEDIUM blaster boat can outdps several battleships.. that is not healthy)
You say this after you see a torp golen wipe out entire fleets...
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Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
158
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 16:42:51 -
[98] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:I'm pretty sure BC and BS don't see much small gang anction more because people think they don't bring enough positive to counter the drawback of being in a BS. You do get something out of it but I think people see it as not enough. Exaclty my point. In 0.0 fleets their main drawback is denied by titan bridging, and they present one important bonus of being cheap to replace by replacement programs when insured. But on smaller scale combat, in low sec and high sec wars they are HORRIBLE. They will have to jump to get where they are needed and usually the profile of ships in these scenarios is completely different, and most ships have fittings costing half a bil or more (therefore insurance of the ship is irrelevant). Battleships are not used because they are BATTLESHIPS, when they are used, they are because they are cannon fooder that have enough ehp to be kept alive and they are cheap to replace. That was nto supposed to be the reason to use a battleship. If you need to wait a few more minutes for a battleship to arrive or bring a T2 or pirate cruiser .. you will not select the battleship (with the exception of the armageddon, Vindicator and Bhalghorn that fulfill specific roles), because they do not bring enough to justify the time. Give battleship sized local repair/boost more oomph (will impact small scale fights but not 0.0 blobs), give them a bit more cap and EHP, give them easier fittings, and give them a tad more dps ( any MEDIUM blaster boat can outdps several battleships.. that is not healthy) You say this after you see a torp golen wipe out entire fleets...
To be fair the Bastionaddes video (that I think you're referring to) was done by an experience pilot, using deadspace and faction gear, implants, and boosts, all while the players he was fighting were using the exact tactic that a blap golem will excel against. Downgrade the fit to t2, no implants or boosts, and start fighting against alpha doctrines or a gang carrying neuts, range, remote reps etc and the outcome will be dramatically different. You couldn't ask for more perfect scenarios in some of those fights.
Links, implants, booster alts, drugs, deadspace and factions gear and the perfect combat scenario against inexperienced pilots ignorant of a ships weaknesses give false impressions about what a ship is really capable of.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13699
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:00:32 -
[99] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:
To be fair the Bastionaddes video (that I think you're referring to) was done by an experience pilot, using deadspace and faction gear, implants, and boosts, all while the players he was fighting were using the exact tactic that a blap golem will excel against. Downgrade the fit to t2, no implants or boosts, and start fighting against alpha doctrines or a gang carrying neuts, range, remote reps etc and the outcome will be dramatically different. You couldn't ask for more perfect scenarios in some of those fights.
Links, implants, booster alts, drugs, deadspace and factions gear and the perfect combat scenario against inexperienced pilots ignorant of a ships weaknesses give false impressions about what a ship is really capable of.
And?
He killed fleets and these people are saying battleships will die to a handful of the exact same type of people while they are backed up with a small gang. Do you honestly think a torp or cruise raven cant manage to fight? Or that a domi isn't going to cause a good deal of hurt? The problem here isn't with the warp speeds or with the hulls its with the people. Its their attude and their lack of ingenuity. They want to be good without putting in the time and effort into learning how to fly these ships and blame the hulls. Frankly they come across as the people you see being slaughtered in that video.
I'm seeing this problem in a lot of players in every area of EVE and in most other games.
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Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
158
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:13:24 -
[100] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bullet Therapist wrote:
To be fair the Bastionaddes video (that I think you're referring to) was done by an experience pilot, using deadspace and faction gear, implants, and boosts, all while the players he was fighting were using the exact tactic that a blap golem will excel against. Downgrade the fit to t2, no implants or boosts, and start fighting against alpha doctrines or a gang carrying neuts, range, remote reps etc and the outcome will be dramatically different. You couldn't ask for more perfect scenarios in some of those fights.
Links, implants, booster alts, drugs, deadspace and factions gear and the perfect combat scenario against inexperienced pilots ignorant of a ships weaknesses give false impressions about what a ship is really capable of.
And? He killed fleets and these people are saying battleships will die to a handful of the exact same type of people while they are backed up with a small gang. Do you honestly think a torp or cruise raven cant manage to fight? Or that a domi isn't going to cause a good deal of hurt? The problem here isn't with the warp speeds or with the hulls its with the people. Its their attude and their lack of ingenuity. They want to be good without putting in the time and effort into learning how to fly these ships and blame the hulls. Frankly they come across as the people you see being slaughtered in that video. I'm seeing this problem in a lot of players in every area of EVE and in most other games.
Those ships you mention can cause some hurt in the right circumstances, and there are a few battleships that are a great addition to a small gang or local defense team. The geddon and domi come to mind, but a lot of that is the fact that they can use a drone bunny and can field neuts. Other hulls don't fare so well. The problem is that HACs and pirate cruisers cause more hurt, offer more tactical options and do it for less isk and risk, and I think that the proof lies in what ships people actually use. T2 and pirate frigates and cruisers are far more prevalent because people gravitate naturally to the best choice available to them.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13699
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:55:00 -
[101] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:
I just don't think that most of the games battleships have enough of what makes a battleship a battleship to make them worthwhile.
This is the issue with battleships. People get told from a young age that battleships are no good, they then run around thinking this is the truth and then pass it on to the next batch. People think a great many things about this game that are wrong. Great example is the humble skiff. Big tank, good firepower and it often gets used as a bait ship for frigates and destroyers that it then turn inside out. Yet the vast bulk of miners ignore it and continue to die in droves while using untanked retrievers and macks.
The myth that battleships are no good in small gangs started the moment CCP added tracking to the game and ended the age of the heatsink geddon. No matter what you do (short of making battleships wildly overpowered) people will continue to believe this myth and will continue to demand buffs to battleships to make them more like their cruiser.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1820
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 17:58:31 -
[102] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bullet Therapist wrote:
I just don't think that most of the games battleships have enough of what makes a battleship a battleship to make them worthwhile.
This is the issue with battleships. People get told from a young age that battleships are no good, they then run around thinking this is the truth and then pass it on to the next batch. People think a great many things about this game that are wrong. Great example is the humble skiff. Big tank, good firepower and it often gets used as a bait ship for frigates and destroyers that it then turn inside out. Yet the vast bulk of miners ignore it and continue to die in droves while using untanked retrievers and macks. The myth that battleships are no good in small gangs started the moment CCP added tracking to the game and ended the age of the heatsink geddon. No matter what you do (short of making battleships wildly overpowered) people will continue to believe this myth and will continue to demand buffs to battleships to make them more like their cruiser.
aa sure.. because all the people that excel in small scale PV use battleships a lot right? And NO your roamign fleets are NOT small scale PVP. Small scale is 3-5 guys.
We usually laugh when people bring battleships on these numbers agaisnt our cruisers, unless these cruisers are Bhalghorn and armageddon ( that alongside the vindicator and maybe the domi are the only ones relevant in smaller scale combat).
Blaster boats can have success against stupid people, but just because they are the ONLY battleships with SERIOUSLY more firepower than the cruiser sized hulls. But agaisnt peopel that have half a brain, megas are irrelevant in modern small scale combat against ships of smaller size.
I do not remember when was last time a mega even hurt any of our ships.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
150
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Posted - 2014.10.23 18:04:53 -
[103] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:The problem is that HACs and pirate cruisers cause more hurt, offer more tactical options and do it for less isk and risk, and I think that the proof lies in what ships people actually use.
Bull. Outside of the blaster vigilant, it is almost impossible to match a brawling battleships DPS, which is either 1k+ or you are seriously doing it wrong. A maelstrom with autos can pull 990 even without going to t2 ammo, and these are the lowest DPS of the short range weapons, and are moderately capable of hitting ships attempting to kite you if used properly.
A rokh pushes 1k to 10km. Mega pushes 1.2k to 8km. Seriously wondering why everyone says they don't bring the hurt. It takes a slightly different mix of support to make them great, but the larger base tank means that a similar resist profile puts out much more EHP and the larger number of slots makes for much less of the slots taken up for tank.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
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Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
158
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:25:14 -
[104] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Bullet Therapist wrote:The problem is that HACs and pirate cruisers cause more hurt, offer more tactical options and do it for less isk and risk, and I think that the proof lies in what ships people actually use.
Bull. Outside of the blaster vigilant, it is almost impossible to match a brawling battleships DPS, which is either 1k+ or you are seriously doing it wrong. A maelstrom with autos can pull 990 even without going to t2 ammo, and these are the lowest DPS of the short range weapons, and are moderately capable of hitting ships attempting to kite you if used properly. A rokh pushes 1k to 10km. Mega pushes 1.2k to 8km. Seriously wondering why everyone says they don't bring the hurt. It takes a slightly different mix of support to make them great, but the larger base tank means that a similar resist profile puts out much more EHP and the larger number of slots makes for much less of the slots taken up for tank.
The raw dps isn't the only story. Application is just as important. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
151
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:27:36 -
[105] - Quote
Bullet Therapist wrote:James Baboli wrote:Bullet Therapist wrote:The problem is that HACs and pirate cruisers cause more hurt, offer more tactical options and do it for less isk and risk, and I think that the proof lies in what ships people actually use.
Bull. Outside of the blaster vigilant, it is almost impossible to match a brawling battleships DPS, which is either 1k+ or you are seriously doing it wrong. A maelstrom with autos can pull 990 even without going to t2 ammo, and these are the lowest DPS of the short range weapons, and are moderately capable of hitting ships attempting to kite you if used properly. A rokh pushes 1k to 10km. Mega pushes 1.2k to 8km. Seriously wondering why everyone says they don't bring the hurt. It takes a slightly different mix of support to make them great, but the larger base tank means that a similar resist profile puts out much more EHP and the larger number of slots makes for much less of the slots taken up for tank. The raw dps isn't the only story. Application is just as important.
Blasters and autos have reasonable tracking, and swapping some of your tackle's utility mods to TPs solves the other side of this problem.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
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Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
158
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Posted - 2014.10.23 18:30:33 -
[106] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Bullet Therapist wrote:James Baboli wrote:Bullet Therapist wrote:The problem is that HACs and pirate cruisers cause more hurt, offer more tactical options and do it for less isk and risk, and I think that the proof lies in what ships people actually use.
Bull. Outside of the blaster vigilant, it is almost impossible to match a brawling battleships DPS, which is either 1k+ or you are seriously doing it wrong. A maelstrom with autos can pull 990 even without going to t2 ammo, and these are the lowest DPS of the short range weapons, and are moderately capable of hitting ships attempting to kite you if used properly. A rokh pushes 1k to 10km. Mega pushes 1.2k to 8km. Seriously wondering why everyone says they don't bring the hurt. It takes a slightly different mix of support to make them great, but the larger base tank means that a similar resist profile puts out much more EHP and the larger number of slots makes for much less of the slots taken up for tank. The raw dps isn't the only story. Application is just as important. Blasters and autos have reasonable tracking, and swapping some of your tackle's utility mods to TPs solves the other side of this problem.
Why would I bother when i could keep my tackle's utilty and just use HACs or pirate cruisers instead of catering to the battleships? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13699
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:34:00 -
[107] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
aa sure.. because all the people that excel in small scale PV use battleships a lot right? And NO your roamign fleets are NOT small scale PVP. Small scale is 3-5 guys.
Rook and Kings use them heavily.
Kagura Nikon wrote: We usually laugh when people bring battleships on these numbers agaisnt our cruisers, unless these cruisers are Bhalghorn and armageddon ( that alongside the vindicator and maybe the domi are the only ones relevant in smaller scale combat).
A fine example of what I was just talking about
Kagura Nikon wrote: Blaster boats can have success against stupid people, but just because they are the ONLY battleships with SERIOUSLY more firepower than the cruiser sized hulls. But agaisnt peopel that have half a brain, megas are irrelevant in modern small scale combat against ships of smaller size.
This kinda shows you lack of experience with large blasters, they have no issue with hitting cruisers.
Kagura Nikon wrote: I do not remember when was last time a mega even hurt any of our ships.
Then you haven't met a good megathron pilot.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1820
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Posted - 2014.10.23 18:37:02 -
[108] - Quote
James Baboli wrote:Bullet Therapist wrote:The problem is that HACs and pirate cruisers cause more hurt, offer more tactical options and do it for less isk and risk, and I think that the proof lies in what ships people actually use.
Bull. Outside of the blaster vigilant, it is almost impossible to match a brawling battleships DPS, which is either 1k+ or you are seriously doing it wrong. A maelstrom with autos can pull 990 even without going to t2 ammo, and these are the lowest DPS of the short range weapons, and are moderately capable of hitting ships attempting to kite you if used properly. A rokh pushes 1k to 10km. Mega pushes 1.2k to 8km. Seriously wondering why everyone says they don't bring the hurt. It takes a slightly different mix of support to make them great, but the larger base tank means that a similar resist profile puts out much more EHP and the larger number of slots makes for much less of the slots taken up for tank.
A brutix outdps The tempest and the maesltrom and possibly others. And when you start to fire at real targets that MOVE and have signature under 500m.. then the effective DPS of the battleships drop even more.
Of course blaster battleships brign the hurt.. but any Cruiser sidez pilot must be stupid or have really bad luck or be BLOBED by tackled to get caught by a close range battleship.
The good battleships are the oens that use DRONES as primary damage, and fill all the high slots with neuts (heavy neuts are the ONLY powerful thing battleships really have).
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1820
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 18:44:15 -
[109] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:
aa sure.. because all the people that excel in small scale PV use battleships a lot right? And NO your roamign fleets are NOT small scale PVP. Small scale is 3-5 guys.
Rook and Kings use them heavily. Kagura Nikon wrote: We usually laugh when people bring battleships on these numbers agaisnt our cruisers, unless these cruisers are Bhalghorn and armageddon ( that alongside the vindicator and maybe the domi are the only ones relevant in smaller scale combat).
A fine example of what I was just talking about Kagura Nikon wrote: Blaster boats can have success against stupid people, but just because they are the ONLY battleships with SERIOUSLY more firepower than the cruiser sized hulls. But agaisnt peopel that have half a brain, megas are irrelevant in modern small scale combat against ships of smaller size.
This kinda shows you lack of experience with large blasters, they have no issue with hitting cruisers. Kagura Nikon wrote: I do not remember when was last time a mega even hurt any of our ships.
Then you haven't met a good megathron pilot.
Rokhs and kings are great, but they are NOT exactly mainstream. And even them admit that theat way of fighting isnot able to keep us and they shifted their tactics a lot, to thing like pipebombing.
And lol at saying WE lack experience at small scale warfare.. just lol. Liek when peopel help my argument by making themselves look stupid. Yes Blasters have a HORRIBLE time hittign cruisers.. BECAUSE THE CRUISERS WILL NOT GET CLOSE! Your answer shows your lack of experience with PILTOS THAT HAVE A BRAIN and do not need a FC!
I will NEVER get under 20k from a blaster ship , and the first thing we will do is get rid of the rapiers and lokis that are the ONLY ships able to make a blaster mega become relevant.
I know after so much time in the swarm you start to forget the concept that a group of players that can eachone think by itself are able to avoid these simplistic pitfalls.
We Kill LOTS of these magnificient battleships when other combat grousp bring them to fight us.. and I frankly cannot remember last time one killed any of us ( except the bait tackler of course).
A very few battleships are powerful (I am talking T1 battleships, marauders, black ops and pirate ones are a different story) for small scale combat. And they tend to be the ones that use droens so they can use a full rack of neuts (that are FAR FAR more dangerous than large blasters)
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13699
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Posted - 2014.10.23 18:47:28 -
[110] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
A brutix outdps The tempest and the maesltrom and possibly others. And when you start to fire at real targets that MOVE and have signature under 500m.. then the effective DPS of the battleships drop even more.
Now look at how far those ships can project that firepower.
Kagura Nikon wrote: Of course blaster battleships brign the hurt.. but any Cruiser sidez pilot must be stupid or have really bad luck or be BLOBED by tackled to get caught by a close range battleship.
My BS can hit 1500m/s. A lot of cruisers must come in range of my weapons to attack me. A small gang will have targets tackled. Chances are you will be in range
Kagura Nikon wrote: The good battleships are the oens that use DRONES as primary damage, and fill all the high slots with neuts (heavy neuts are the ONLY powerful thing battleships really have).
Aside from blasters, torps, cruise missiles, RHML, autocannons, arty, pulse lasers, large smartbombs....
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13699
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Posted - 2014.10.23 18:51:04 -
[111] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Rokhs and kings are great, but they are NOT exactly mainstream. And even them admit that theat way of fighting isnot able to keep us and they shifted their tactics a lot, to thing like pipebombing.
That comment was with dealing with the blob, not people like you.
Kagura Nikon wrote: And lol at saying WE lack experience at small scale warfare.. just lol. Liek when peopel help my argument by making themselves look stupid. Yes Blasters have a HORRIBLE time hittign cruisers.. BECAUSE THE CRUISERS WILL NOT GET CLOSE! Your answer shows your lack of experience with PILTOS THAT HAVE A BRAIN and do not need a FC!
I track fighter and destroyers. You honestly think a cruiser is too small to hit?
Kagura Nikon wrote: I will NEVER get under 20k from a blaster ship , and the first thing we will do is get rid of the rapiers and lokis that are the ONLY ships able to make a blaster mega become relevant.
Blasters have a 40km range.
Kagura Nikon wrote: I know after so much time in the swarm you start to forget the concept that a group of players that can eachone think by itself are able to avoid these simplistic pitfalls.
Remember the bit I said about myths? Goons only working in blobs is one of them.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
152
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Posted - 2014.10.23 19:11:30 -
[112] - Quote
Said fits all push damage out to 45 or better with a simple ammo swap, most cruisers with an MWD lit have a sig of 300+ to compare to the current sig radius of 400 for the guns to track without penalty ( assuming no links) and these battleships all mount a lovely little thing called a 100mn MWD, which pushes their speed to roughly 3/4 that of most armor cruisers, and then combined with ability to hit at much longer ranges than medium guns, this makes for a really nasty engagement basket that has a sharp increase in DPS as they close. Also, by removing the "holy trinity" of web/scram/prop from these ships, you can massively increase the ability to successfully engage smaller targets while the fast tackle (t1 frigs and inties) and sticky tackle (cruisers and assault frigs) bring these lovely targets to a webbed non-MWDing crawl, letting you rip oversized holes in these smaller ships. All it takes is accepting that you need to get tackle, and then bring on the heavy DPS rather than all arrive as a blob.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1335
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Posted - 2014.10.23 19:24:25 -
[113] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Then you haven't met a good megathron pilot.
Do you think more people would fly them if they were to cost less? Talking about battleship in general, not only megathron of course. Following that, would more good BS pilots potentially emerge if the ship became more popular? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13699
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Posted - 2014.10.23 19:40:46 -
[114] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Then you haven't met a good megathron pilot.
Do you think more people would fly them if they were to cost less? Talking about battleship in general, not only megathron of course. Following that, would more good BS pilots potentially emerge if the ship became more popular?
Unlikely. People will spend battleship money on t3 and pirate/faction cruisers right now. Its a mental issue rather than isk.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
152
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Posted - 2014.10.23 19:41:05 -
[115] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Then you haven't met a good megathron pilot.
Do you think more people would fly them if they were to cost less? Talking about battleship in general, not only megathron of course. Following that, would more good BS pilots potentially emerge if the ship became more popular? To be good at something requires practice. If you never practice, you cannot be good at it. If a thing is not used, then there is no one practicing it, developing the TTPs for it and generally making it usable by the vast majority of players.
First and fore most in developing skill is practice and experience. Then you can find out if you have talent. If you do, you may end up one of the exceptional pilots/FCs/CEOs that end up talked of and looked up to. If you don't, fine, you are now a practiced and experienced pilot with the ability to (hopefully) perform at the standard. All it takes to be a "good" pilot is to consistently perform at the standard and never make the first mistake.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
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Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
305
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Posted - 2014.10.23 19:47:12 -
[116] - Quote
It dosent seem to matter what anyone say about anything regarding the current shape of BS in the game Baltec is going to argue against it.
Clearly they are constantly seen in low sec and are grossly op at the moment.
They are never monstered at a belt by assault frigs (not that anyone ever sees a BS at a belt anymore), nor are they kited into oblivion by every hac in the game. Blapped by dreds, and sniped out of existance by rail ships.
I am not asking for a lift to ehp or tracking or a return of the utility high slot. - although all of those things would be nice.
I am asking for a lift in the AU speed. Thats it. So that they can keep up in mixed comp fleets, this would allow them to use their strenghts whilst having their weaknesses mitigated by other ships in the fleet.
No other ships in the game with the exception of the BC's need to fit warp speed modifying rigs or low slots to be relevant on roaming fleets.
I'm sure that we all love to see tons of ishtar fleets about but this is about trying to address this problem and bring back some variety in fleet comps.
Thanks to everyone for posting. |
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
305
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 19:55:28 -
[117] - Quote
The many other BS in the game are irrelevant when not bridged in numbers. Those that are commenting that everything is fine, ask yourselves when was the last time you saw a typhoon or a domi in low sec, or a gang of BS. Yes RnK do a fantastic job with their pipe bomb setups, but that is an extreme niche function fired from the back of a titan.
For the rest of eve that doesn't bridge hordes of rail megas the lack of variety of BS in the game and their rarity is a problem.
Their vulnerability to almost everything else in the game is also a problem. The solution to this is to enable them to fly with mixed fleets. |
James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
152
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Posted - 2014.10.23 20:01:35 -
[118] - Quote
There is nothing preventing you from accepting the tradeoffs currently inherent to the class. There is nothing preventing you from mitigating these problems. There is no reason not to use them when you know you are going in balls deep into a tough fight to engage enemy assets, be they close to home or far away. The issue is much more with the lack of willingness to attack the infrastructure of the enemy to pull them to you, and/or with the short sighted style of "roam for prey" rather than finding a suitable bit of prey close by and then jumping into the pwnmobiles as appropriate to the numbers and preferred ship.
That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did.
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Iain Cariaba
551
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Posted - 2014.10.23 20:06:53 -
[119] - Quote
This thread gives me the mental picture of the last time I was in walmart, with Maraner as the screaming two year old throwing a tantrum because mommy wouldn't buy him candy.
Claiming that BS are broken because they warp slower than smaller ships is utter BS. If you use any tool outside it's intended purpose, you shouldn't be surprised if it doesn' work out right. Stop trying to use a sledgehammer to swat a mosquito.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
305
|
Posted - 2014.10.23 20:12:45 -
[120] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:This thread gives me the mental picture of the last time I was in walmart, with Maraner as the screaming two year old throwing a tantrum because mommy wouldn't buy him candy.
Claiming that BS are broken because they warp slower than smaller ships is utter BS. If you use any tool outside it's intended purpose, you shouldn't be surprised if it doesn' work out right. Stop trying to use a sledgehammer to swat a mosquito.
Thanks for that. I have been polite to opposing opinions throught this thread. I respect other people even when they are wrong... like you.
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