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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Phaige
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services
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Posted - 2006.08.16 17:54:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Benco97
Originally by: Bhaal And what do you expect in a game environment where we all go around killing each other?
I expect it to stay in the game, not to have someone saying that they don't think I should be, that I should be "Cured". I don't have a problem with you Bhaal, you're allowed to think whatever you like but please stop pressing those thoughts on others, I don't go around saying that in the future everyone will forced to be *** do I? Thank you.
Not to be argumenative, but isn't the point of the Out of Pod section to talk about things that are out of the realm of EVE?
You may be a King or a little street sweeper... but sooner or later you dance wi'de Reaper!! |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.16 17:58:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 16/08/2006 17:59:18
Originally by: Bhaal No, that was just an example... Although it does seem like male homosexuality is less accepted than female? Maybe because it's men who form the strongest opinions?, and voice their concerns louder? I don't know...
Ok, back to smoking, lol...
May be females arent that narrow minded than males?
Famales can wear trousers and skirs but males are not allowed. Females can hold hands with female friends and males are not allowed.
The list goes on. ---------------- Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness.
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Benco97
Gallente On Ravens Wings
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Posted - 2006.08.16 18:00:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Bhaal But yes, sorry for bringing this to the EVE forums, should not have used that as an example, should have just stuck to what DS was talking about. It's obviously too controversial for even Out Of Pod forums I guess...
There's no reason to be sorry, you've not actually done anything wrong and if I made you feel like that then it is ME who should be sorry, we just have conflicting opinions on the matter. To solve the problem I will no longer post in this thread, I didn't contribute anything anyway. What the other person said (Sorry, I 've forgotten your name) yes, you're absolutely correct, i'm being too stuck-up about this all, sorry everyone.
Head of the Fedo Appreciation Group and Registered Fedo breeder |
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BH Runner
ISD BH Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.08.16 18:02:00 -
[34]
Amazing how offtopic this went.
Smoking in the workplace has been banned in many european countries. This is a good thing in my opinion. Smoking for most people is a very bad drug addiction. People have the choice and the education now to understand this. If they are damaging their own future employment prospects by starting their drug addiction, then enforcement of this exclusion from applying for certain posts can only help to deter people.
I disagree with avon fundamentally on his suggestion that smokers should be respected for paying more tax. Smoking costs UK taxpayers money, alot of money. Figures have never been accurately determined and due to the incidious bature of the morbidity associated with smoking it is difficult to define and qualify.
Mortality is usually the figures quoted regarding the effects of smoking, this isn't close to half the bill. Anything to help prevent this drug addiction and remove the scourge of tobacco companies profits is good in my book. Personally I don't hire smokers, nor would I if I set policy for a large company.
I see this as a good thing.
[Bug Report Here] - [Contact Us] |
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Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.16 18:11:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Bhaal on 16/08/2006 18:11:41 When I was a kid, it was actually "un-cool" to smoke...
Unfortunately that trend has turned around a bit now and smoking among teens is rising...
With the amount of fat kids we have here in the US, you add smoking onto that and OH MY, think we have problems with our health care system now?
I've heard that smoking in the UK is really prevalent compared to US, is this true?
Also, I've notice that it seems every Japanese customer that comes to my facility is a chain smoker, I mean one after the other non-stop, plus they drink like hell!
What are the smoking laws in Japan?
------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Phaige
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services
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Posted - 2006.08.16 18:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 16/08/2006 18:11:41 When I was a kid, it was actually "un-cool" to smoke...
Unfortunately that trend has turned around a bit now and smoking among teens is rising...
With the amount of fat kids we have here in the US, you add smoking onto that and OH MY, think we have problems with our health care system now?
I've heard that smoking in the UK is really prevalent compared to US, is this true?
Also, I've notice that it seems every Japanese customer that comes to my facility is a chain smoker, I mean one after the other non-stop, plus they drink like hell!
What are the smoking laws in Japan?
Although I don't have any linkage to bring along, one of the theories that I've read about in the rise in smoking espeically in the US is the Movie industry. Back in the day they made a big push to get cigs out of popular actors hands and keep references out of major movies. This decline in popularlizing smoking aided quite a bit in the decline of it among teen/young adults.
Now, however, cigs are making a comback in the movie industry in a major way. They are everywhere you look it seems, and what do you know, smoking is back on the rise.
Again, this was a theory I read about and I have no direct proof or anything, but it definatly makes sense as a contributing factor.
You may be a King or a little street sweeper... but sooner or later you dance wi'de Reaper!! |
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.16 18:47:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Phaige
Originally by: Bhaal Edited by: Bhaal on 16/08/2006 18:11:41 When I was a kid, it was actually "un-cool" to smoke...
Unfortunately that trend has turned around a bit now and smoking among teens is rising...
With the amount of fat kids we have here in the US, you add smoking onto that and OH MY, think we have problems with our health care system now?
I've heard that smoking in the UK is really prevalent compared to US, is this true?
Also, I've notice that it seems every Japanese customer that comes to my facility is a chain smoker, I mean one after the other non-stop, plus they drink like hell!
What are the smoking laws in Japan?
Although I don't have any linkage to bring along, one of the theories that I've read about in the rise in smoking espeically in the US is the Movie industry. Back in the day they made a big push to get cigs out of popular actors hands and keep references out of major movies. This decline in popularlizing smoking aided quite a bit in the decline of it among teen/young adults.
Now, however, cigs are making a comeback in the movie industry in a major way. They are everywhere you look it seems, and what do you know, smoking is back on the rise.
Again, this was a theory I read about and I have no direct proof or anything, but it definitely makes sense as a contributing factor.
Well, people like to bash the hell out of those theories, same as violence & video games, etc...
However, I can see that happening... Kids do emulate things that are deemed as "cool" by what their peers see in movies etc...
You can't blame it on that 100%, but you certainly can't blow it off...
------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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nahtoh
Caldari Bull Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.16 18:48:00 -
[38]
Originally by: BH Runner Amazing how offtopic this went.
Smoking in the workplace has been banned in many european countries. This is a good thing in my opinion. Smoking for most people is a very bad drug addiction. People have the choice and the education now to understand this. If they are damaging their own future employment prospects by starting their drug addiction, then enforcement of this exclusion from applying for certain posts can only help to deter people.
I disagree with avon fundamentally on his suggestion that smokers should be respected for paying more tax. Smoking costs UK taxpayers money, alot of money. Figures have never been accurately determined and due to the incidious bature of the morbidity associated with smoking it is difficult to define and qualify.
Mortality is usually the figures quoted regarding the effects of smoking, this isn't close to half the bill. Anything to help prevent this drug addiction and remove the scourge of tobacco companies profits is good in my book. Personally I don't hire smokers, nor would I if I set policy for a large company.
I see this as a good thing.
I see automatic sacking of ilegal drug users as a good thing...caught using drugs and bounce their ass out...
Would you agree with that? ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Gift
Amarr Loot
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Posted - 2006.08.16 19:10:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Gift on 16/08/2006 19:15:50
Originally by: Dark Shikari We have every right to discriminate against those on the basis of something that is a concious choice.
Religion would fall into that catagory.
Originally by: Dark Shikari The difference is that one's religious belief doesn't (at least shouldn't) affect others.
However, smoking does affect others because the smoker stinks and spews his nasty smoke everywhere.
I find religious people far more offensive & dangerous than smokers.
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Laocoon
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.08.16 19:33:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Benco97 I read some things in this thread that.. well I never thought i'd hear on the EVE forums. nothing has ever shaken my belief in the playerbase as much as this.
agreed. I'm not ***, but i think the suggestion that 'someday we will eliminate the *** gene' is quite offensive. Maybe someday we can remove the religion gene? Or lets go whole whole way; lets remove the gene for diversity and make everyone the same. If *** people want be be ***, it's fine by me. I mean, as long as a *** guy doesn't come onto me i don't care how he likes it.
The whole '*** people area mistake and should be treated as such' is something i really dislike. It's like being racist for no reason other than the colour of somebody's skin. (I say 'for no reason', as i understand (though don't agree with) someone who is racist becasue they were tormented by certain people who happened to be of a different racial group, something which happened to my father) Personally attacking people for 'liking the wrong people' is pretty low. I can guess that a lot of *** people get a lot of hassle, and i'm sure you don't wake up one day and think 'Hmm, i think i'm going to be *** today', so why persecute someone for some attribute they were born with?
Bleh, reading it again i think i sound like someone going 'Aww the poor ***s, leave em alone!', which is not how i intended it to sound at all. >_>
- Lao
Veto. Corp |
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Laocoon
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.08.16 19:34:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gift
Originally by: Dark Shikari The difference is that one's religious belief doesn't (at least shouldn't) affect others. However, smoking does affect others because the smoker stinks and spews his nasty smoke everywhere.
I find religious people far more offensive & dangerous than smokers.
on some accounts, qft. - Lao
Veto. Corp |
Xelios
Minmatar Rampage Eternal
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:07:00 -
[42]
Quote: I see automatic sacking of ilegal drug users as a good thing...caught using drugs and bounce their ass out...
Would you agree with that?
Depends. If their drug habit is interfering with their work then yes. If not I don't see how it's any business of the companies what its employees do on their own time.
Quote: However, I can see that happening... Kids do emulate things that are deemed as "cool" by what their peers see in movies etc...
You can't blame it on that 100%, but you certainly can't blow it off...
I don't think it's so much to look cool, but rather cigs in the media give the impression of acceptance or a norm. Kids start to think "Well these people all smoke so I guess it's alright if I do it too". When I was growing up smoking was almost never about 'looking cool', I really do think that's just an idea older people have thought up.
To be honest I think it's simple experimentation. Teens try to find boundaries, try out new things, explore options they haven't before. Problem is once you explore the world of smoking you get hooked on it. Looking cool I don't think plays any part in it.
The new BFG.
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Zaldiri
Caldari Automated Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:16:00 -
[43]
Smoking is like drinking, it creates an unpleasent workplace enviroment. Therefore it shouldn't be in the workplace.
However.
Having a smoker in the workplace does not do any harm if they arn't smoking (or have been recently smoking), just like having a drinker in the workplace dosen't do any harm if they arn't drinking.
----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:18:00 -
[44]
Originally by: nahtoh Smoking is not a disease, or birth defect, it's a choice + addiction that already is, and will continue to be discriminated against until cigarettes are no longer manufactured in the civilized world.
So is drinking, drug use etc...whats next sacking someone that does sport because they may injure themselves there fore having a negitive impact on their workplace?
That already happens. If you repeatedly take time off work due to sports-related injuries, you can be dismissed.
Actually if you repeatedly take time off work for any sort of injuries, you can be dismissed. You're not fit for the job.
As for the original point: smoking tobacco in public affects other people, and since those effects are detrimental it should be banned (and mostly is, nowadays. We're getting there).
Smoking in your own home, fine, *provided*, you don't bring its effects into the workplace.
If I came into work every day reeking of BO and putting other people off their work, I'd be dealt with. If I came in every day reeking of engine oil because I spend 3 hours a night repairing cars, ditto.
If I came in every day reeking of tobacco smoke, ditto. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:23:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Bhaal I for one don't think certain human (or other mammal attributes) were intended by nature, but are in fact defects.
Sorry to burst this particular bubble, but NOTHING was ever "intended" by nature. Things just happen. Random mutations, and selection by survival or not.
If there is a gene, or combination of genes, which leads to homosexuality, then it will eventually be eliminated because homosexuals, as a general, don't procreate. Kinda impossible unless they go against their nature and get involved with a woman
But that doesn't seem to be happening, so maybe it isn't a "genetic defect" as such, any more than being left-handed is. It's just something that crops up in a minor, but sizeable, chunk of the human population. Probably, it always will.
As to whether it's "right or wrong" .... this isn't really the place. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
nahtoh
Caldari Bull Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:40:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Xelios
Quote: I see automatic sacking of ilegal drug users as a good thing...caught using drugs and bounce their ass out...
Would you agree with that?
Depends. If their drug habit is interfering with their work then yes. If not I don't see how it's any business of the companies what its employees do on their own time.
The post I was replying had a large dose of "if it helps them quit a unhealty habit" running through it, it also did not mention if they only smoked at home or had zero impact on their work... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.16 20:54:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Bhaal I for one don't think certain human (or other mammal attributes) were intended by nature, but are in fact defects.
Sorry to burst this particular bubble, but NOTHING was ever "intended" by nature. Things just happen. Random mutations, and selection by survival or not.
If there is a gene, or combination of genes, which leads to homosexuality, then it will eventually be eliminated because homosexuals, as a general, don't procreate. Kinda impossible unless they go against their nature and get involved with a woman
But that doesn't seem to be happening, so maybe it isn't a "genetic defect" as such, any more than being left-handed is. It's just something that crops up in a minor, but sizeable, chunk of the human population. Probably, it always will.
As to whether it's "right or wrong" .... this isn't really the place.
The purpose of a male & female sex is to procreate, means to an end...
I view that as an intented trait to keep the species going.
You view evolution different than I do, and neither of us can prove our case 100%, so lets just leave it at that... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Deeik
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:03:00 -
[48]
two words: consumer choice
but at the same time i also want store/business operators to have thr right to hire/fire anyone for any reason.
but then again, you're just being an ass if you fire someone for smoking and the smoking isn't affecting the smoker's work.
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:03:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Bhaal You view evolution different than I do, and neither of us can prove our case 100%, so lets just leave it at that...
True, but the whole point of scientific enquiry is that it does not allow for intention or prior motive. Nothing is, or can be, an *intended* trait. A belief that it is, is inherently unscientific. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Alejandro Zapata
Minmatar PAK
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:05:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Alejandro Zapata on 16/08/2006 21:05:36
Originally by: Gift I find religious people far more offensive & dangerous than smokers.
I find people that generalize about an entire group of people more offensive and dangerous than anyone.
As for keeping smokers out of the work place. My wife's employer requires that all workers be non-smokers for the purposes of obtaining cheaper health insurance., even though it has never been enforced in the five years she has worked there.
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Bhaal
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:10:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Bhaal on 16/08/2006 21:10:13
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Bhaal You view evolution different than I do, and neither of us can prove our case 100%, so lets just leave it at that...
True, but the whole point of scientific enquiry is that it does not allow for intention or prior motive. Nothing is, or can be, an *intended* trait. A belief that it is, is inherently unscientific.
I don't think we can say that.
I don't believe in a totally randon iterative evolution over time, I think somehow evolution includes a "lessons learned" mechanic... Don't ask me how, that's just my "theory" ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE
My Hero
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Deeik
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:15:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Deeik on 16/08/2006 21:16:45
Originally by: BH Runner I see automatic sacking of ilegal drug users as a good thing...caught using drugs and bounce their ass out...
Would you agree with that?
no. i mean, i would allow employers the option to do it, but it's stupid to do.
why bounce their ass for using drugs? you're automatically assuming that their drug use is interfering with the work. it may very well not be. and often doesn't. let's not make hasty assumptions and generalizations.
drug user doesn't neccesarily = bad employee.
also
Quote: I find people that generalize about an entire group of people more offensive and dangerous than anyone.
qfmft.
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Zaldiri
Caldari Automated Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:35:00 -
[53]
Firing someone for drug use outside of work is just about the dumbest thing you could possibly do. If there in work, there is a very strong chance that A) just being in a community of non drug addicts will help them quit the habit and B) they wont turn to crime to fuel their addiction.
If you fire them, you have terminated their income, but they still need that income for drugs, and so they will turn to crime.
----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:47:00 -
[54]
Originally by: BH Runner
I disagree with avon fundamentally on his suggestion that smokers should be respected for paying more tax. Smoking costs UK taxpayers money, alot of money. Figures have never been accurately determined and due to the incidious bature of the morbidity associated with smoking it is difficult to define and qualify.
Well, it was kinda a joke ..
However, if people didn't smoke do you think that they would live a long and healthy life, and then die quickly in their sleep of old age .. or would they still suffer from a different medical complaint at some point in the future?
You see, saying that smokers are a drain on the health service does rather depend on them not getting ill if they never smoked. If you are realistic, and realise that even non-smokers get ill (shocking though the concept may be), you would see that the smokers aren't actually the financial drain that they are made out to be, but rather are net contributors. Ultimately, do you really think smoking would be legal if it wasn't a money maker for the government?
Really?
Actually, take a look at the revenue vs spending figures yourself.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:53:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Avon
Ultimately, do you really think smoking would be legal if it wasn't a money maker for the government?
It isn't a money maker, but its still legal.
Why?
Because the government is run by politicians who care about the corporations that fund their campaigns more than the government they run.
Thus, if the government could lose a billion dollars to earn some companies a few tens of millions, they would happily do it. And they do.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:57:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Avon
Ultimately, do you really think smoking would be legal if it wasn't a money maker for the government?
It isn't a money maker, but its still legal.
Why?
Because the government is run by politicians who care about the corporations that fund their campaigns more than the government they run.
Thus, if the government could lose a billion dollars to earn some companies a few tens of millions, they would happily do it. And they do.
zomg, you jumped in before my edit!
Tobacco taxation provides a net gain of ú8bil per year.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Xrak
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:17:00 -
[57]
Honestly, evolution and survival of the fittess is no longer appplied to the human race (In developed countries anyhow). We have effectivally gone beyond nature by keeping people alive much longer then they should.
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nahtoh
Caldari Bull Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.16 22:23:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Zaldiri Firing someone for drug use outside of work is just about the dumbest thing you could possibly do. If there in work, there is a very strong chance that A) just being in a community of non drug addicts will help them quit the habit and B) they wont turn to crime to fuel their addiction.
If you fire them, you have terminated their income, but they still need that income for drugs, and so they will turn to crime.
========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Deeik
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.16 23:07:00 -
[59]
of course for any of the "fire/don't hire drug users" claims would have to work around the drugs are bad mmkay presumption first, and some of us disagree with that.
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nahtoh
Caldari Bull Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.17 00:47:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Deeik of course for any of the "fire/don't hire drug users" claims would have to work around the drugs are bad mmkay presumption first, and some of us disagree with that.
And tehentire secondhand smokething has be so proven...for every study that says it is theres another one that says its not or there is no proven link...
But what the hell if you can get away with refuesing employment with legal habit WTF is the problem with doing same damm thing with a ilegal one?
We could go with teh old chestnut of they have never done me harm...well what hay smoking has not yet caused me to have cancer... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
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