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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
244
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Posted - 2014.11.04 18:59:35 -
[31] - Quote
Try OP for heresy.
On a serious note, when can we expect iteration CCP? |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
4410
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Posted - 2014.11.04 20:21:29 -
[32] - Quote
EVE is by nature a social PVP game, and the roleplaying types would love this. Not to mention it could balance the PLEX market through microtransactions for decorum, new clothes and avatar items (PLEX sales would go up to get Aurum and thus help stabilize them).
I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Demon your parents warned you about.
||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Tug-class Vessel||
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The Hamilton
Outer Ring Sleeper Collective Illusion of Solitude
77
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Posted - 2014.11.04 23:27:18 -
[33] - Quote
This has been done to death in the F&I forum already.. They ain't doing it, no matter how small or how much real gameplay the improvement may contain.
Wait for Valkyrie and Legion both with "Games of the Year" back to back so CCP has the cash flow to throw at Ambulation again. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
483
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Posted - 2014.11.05 02:58:03 -
[34] - Quote
+1
I'm not really into the WIS stuff but CCP did promise it and I do like when they follow through on their promises. Lots of folks waited years to get ambulation and it was never fleshed out. |
Kharamete
Royal Assent
105
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Posted - 2014.11.12 05:17:09 -
[35] - Quote
I think that it is inevitable that CCP will have to revisit WiS within a couple of years.
The reason for this is that players of space games will be socialised into expecting avatars, and given that avatars already exist in Eve, the pressure will be to expand on them.
Players will be socialised into expecting avatar play by the GÇÿcompetitorsGÇÖ of Eve that are coming out in 2014 and 2015.
In December the grand-daddy of Eve, Elite, is launched as a cooperative multiplayer game, and it already has systems for avatar play. At launch the avatar will be locked into the cockpit, but that doesnGÇÖt mean that the avatar isnGÇÖt there. It is, and David Braben has said that the systems has been coded with avatar gameplay in mind. Then in 2015 you will, hopefully, also see Star Citizens launch, finally. It too has Avatar play, and it has from the start.
Space games will see a rennaissance over the next few years, and like Elite set the floor for games like Eve and Wing Commander, their pedigree will set the floor for CCP too. With the player churn that goes on always, that floor will make players come to Eve with certain expectations formed by those existing standards.
I believe that avatars will become standard. Therefore, CCP will have to expand on WiS.
CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."
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Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
4649
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:50:46 -
[36] - Quote
Kharamete wrote:I think that it is inevitable that CCP will have to revisit WiS within a couple of years.
The reason for this is that players of space games will be socialised into expecting avatars, and given that avatars already exist in Eve, the pressure will be to expand on them.
Players will be socialised into expecting avatar play by the GÇÿcompetitorsGÇÖ of Eve that are coming out in 2014 and 2015.
In December the grand-daddy of Eve, Elite, is launched as a cooperative multiplayer game, and it already has systems for avatar play. At launch the avatar will be locked into the cockpit, but that doesnGÇÖt mean that the avatar isnGÇÖt there. It is, and David Braben has said that the systems has been coded with avatar gameplay in mind. Then in 2015 you will, hopefully, also see Star Citizens launch, finally. It too has Avatar play, and it has from the start.
Space games will see a rennaissance over the next few years, and like Elite set the floor for games like Eve and Wing Commander, their pedigree will set the floor for CCP too. With the player churn that goes on always, that floor will make players come to Eve with certain expectations formed by those existing standards.
I believe that avatars will become standard. Therefore, CCP will have to expand on WiS. I agree.
I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Demon your parents warned you about.
||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1273
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Posted - 2014.11.12 19:18:21 -
[37] - Quote
I'm torn. I love the idea of avatars, and I love the idea of bringing EVE into stations--bringing stations into the game, really. The potential to make the game much larger and much deeper is huge.
However: the avatar in fact is a very difficult thing to pull off, because humans are incredibly diverse things, and so much social interaction depends on things like unconscious cues, body language and tone of voice that are either caricatured as /emotes that you have to type out, or absent altogether. When I played on text-only MUSHes this wasn't a problem, because my character could do anything that I described (within reason, obviously). In space it's not a problem, because a ship is just a big hunk of metal; nobody expects much individuality or expressiveness out of them--though, in my ideal EVE, there would be room for that, too.
As a result, much of the communication between players is either done the same way I did it in MUSHes in the 1990s and through talk and VT100s in the 1980s: text chat--except that the MUSHes have vastly more sophisticated options than any MMO does, so it's more like the 1980s than the 1990s. The only enhancement, if that's what it is, is that some graphical MMOs put the text in a speech bubble over the avatar in addition to updating the chat window.
The rest of the communication is out of the game entirely, and much of it is private and inaccessible even if every single one of the people talking are sitting on the Jita 4-4 undock.
This is not an easy problem to solve. CCP could probably start by really committing to EVE Voice, which will incidentally become much better when CCP has single-sign-on for all a person's accounts and EVE Voice at the top level, so that you don't have to leave and come back when you change characters. But making avatars seem alive and human is a very hard problem, and I have to say that, as a veteran roleplayer, I can't get terribly excited about avatar gameplay if it means my avatar standing dumbly in a room looping through his standard collection of fidgety behaviors while I type into a chat window.
I can get more excited about avatar gameplay that involves doing things, because running around wielding various items and interacting in specific ways with the environment is a mostly solved problem--at least, game developers have figured out how to fake it reasonably well.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
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Waltaratzor
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
3
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Posted - 2014.11.15 05:39:59 -
[38] - Quote
What we really need is running in stations. Tired of my character being so slow. |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1287
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Posted - 2014.11.20 15:01:19 -
[39] - Quote
Waltaratzor wrote:What we really need is running in stations. Tired of my character being so slow.
It's not like he's going anywhere.
I'd prefer if CCP had a fatigue timer on running and the sort of public transportation options that any huge, sprawling airport offers, so that you don't have to walk or run everywhere if you don't want to. Trains are faster anyway, and the equivalent in the far future should be awesome.
One of the major irritants for me in any avatar-based MMO is the overcaffeinated jumping-bean guy making a joke of himself because he can't take 10 extra seconds to reach a location--something that's not really helped by the fact that you're expected to get everywhere on foot. But then, I'm the guy who actually turns on the walk option and looks around.
And on that note, rather than running everywhere, I'd like to have much more customization of gait and posture. The current everyone-is-a-runway-model default is fine for what it is, but a whole station of runway models is going to look strange.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
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Flamespar
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
1257
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Posted - 2014.12.21 11:07:32 -
[40] - Quote
Meanwhile Elite dangerous announces its plans to add walking in stations and on planets.
I remember when EVE aspired to be the ultimate sci fi simulator, now other more capable studios are stepping in to do it.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/
https://twitter.com/Flamespar
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Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
4940
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Posted - 2014.12.21 14:42:26 -
[41] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Meanwhile Elite dangerous announces its plans to add walking in stations and on planets.
I remember when EVE aspired to be the ultimate sci fi simulator, now other more capable studios are stepping in to do it. Exactly. Star Citizen also plans on having this.
If things aren't properly added, obscurity will be the next place EVE goes.
I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Demon your parents warned you about.
||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
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Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2014.12.21 19:51:42 -
[42] - Quote
I figure if they can be putting out outfits and such with just about every release then they should be able to expand the CQ or WIS in general at least a little bit.
I would love to see POS be able to be used like the war barge in DUST 514. Kind of just a social meeting place for anyone hanging at that POS. Especially true for people living in WH space. Even more if you could see outside the windows at what was happening in space.
Though I have a feeling the DUST/Legion teams will be doing most of the WIS work, but for right now it's being used for DUST. It's only a matter of time before those assets get shared in my opinion. |
Tu Ko
Paxton Industries Tactical Narcotics Team
1
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Posted - 2014.12.24 11:39:06 -
[43] - Quote
I'm personally kinda tired of hearing the 'if they don't add walking in stations then..'. No one has even a glimmer of an idea what gameplay element should be placed into WIS that will work with EVE(flying in space). Meeting places is just a tired and kinda pointless version of player housing that doesn't really make sense with the gameplay reality that all your corp mates will be spread daily amongst multiple systems traveling constantly. No one wants to put a combat element into WIS, at least not with actual isk or implants on the line anyway. Only a tiny portion of the playerbase has any interest at all with NPC storylines and trying to 'bring the npc's to life' will cost literal years of work to make happen. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
2063
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Posted - 2014.12.24 19:15:39 -
[44] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Flamespar wrote:Meanwhile Elite dangerous announces its plans to add walking in stations and on planets.
I remember when EVE aspired to be the ultimate sci fi simulator, now other more capable studios are stepping in to do it. Exactly. Star Citizen also plans on having this. If things aren't properly added, obscurity will be the next place EVE goes.
So you're both saying that other games have caught up to Eve, in that they've said they're going to do something?
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Chisa May
Shadow State Fatal Ascension
13
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Posted - 2014.12.25 06:03:57 -
[45] - Quote
If they're going to sell outfits and stuff then they need an outlet for those items to be shown off.
Portraits only show at most the shoulders of your char. All the other stuff you're wearing is hidden from view unless a player clicks "View Full Body", and no one really does except the very curious
So I support some modicum of WiS if only to view how other players look. It'd also serve as a way for players to meet up and socialise in local instead of everyone just posting to a chat full of ISK scams.
But eh for full appreciation of it, at the very least we need some Advanced Camera Controls, which could be implemented right now at almost no cost!
A needed tool if we're to appreciate all these outfits. The default angle of the camera doesn't really let you see things in proper perspective. |
Flamespar
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
1281
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Posted - 2014.12.25 08:05:20 -
[46] - Quote
Tu Ko wrote:I'm personally kinda tired of hearing the 'if they don't add walking in stations then..'. No one has even a glimmer of an idea what gameplay element should be placed into WIS that will work with EVE(flying in space). Meeting places is just a tired and kinda pointless version of player housing that doesn't really make sense with the gameplay reality that all your corp mates will be spread daily amongst multiple systems traveling constantly. No one wants to put a combat element into WIS, at least not with actual isk or implants on the line anyway. Only a tiny portion of the playerbase has any interest at all with NPC storylines and trying to 'bring the npc's to life' will cost literal years of work to make happen.
No offence, but there has been a huge number of suggestions for gameplay within stations and derelicts. Including combat.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/
https://twitter.com/Flamespar
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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
226
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Posted - 2015.01.04 22:26:06 -
[47] - Quote
I still want bronzed corpses I killed myself as trophies in my hallway
The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
5036
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Posted - 2015.01.04 22:34:50 -
[48] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote:I still want bronzed corpses I killed myself as trophies in my hallway I'd like them to be poseable so you can make th into hat/coat racks, coffee tables, et cetera
I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Demon your parents warned you about.
||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
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Laken Starr
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
64
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Posted - 2015.01.05 05:29:34 -
[49] - Quote
The real issue is that Eve has a core of anti-social, neckbeard incumbent players who throw a $@#%storm about anything that isn't directly gameplay related.
They did this last time when WIS was originally added and CCP panicked and killed the project outright. I would have much preferred they give them the finger and finish fleshing WiS. They'll definitely pick up players when they have avatars that they can connect to as more than a ship. |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
5036
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Posted - 2015.01.05 05:47:31 -
[50] - Quote
They actually threw a fit over micro transactions for fear of EVE becoming pay to win. Do your research.
I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Demon your parents warned you about.
||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
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Laken Starr
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
64
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Posted - 2015.01.05 06:57:00 -
[51] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:They actually threw a fit over micro transactions for fear of EVE becoming pay to win. Do your research.
Ahh, I thought they were two separate fits but close chronologically. I just remember a lot of posts about barbies in space. |
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1280
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Posted - 2015.01.06 20:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
Terenius Neo wrote:
I was always a supporter auf walking in stations. CCP failed very with it in the Incarna release but that was when 2011?
There is something I've never quite understood about that. CCP promised a lot of cool features with walking in stations. They showed teasers of some different rooms and areas that looked really great, then they didn't deliver. People got upset because they didn't deliver. CCP then decided that meant that we didn't want WiS. Wtf? How? Why? Someone sucked on the bong one too many times? No. (Well, maybe, tbh.)
It was probably because a vocal minority played both sides, but I still don't see how CCP could screw up so badly. Players rioted over the New Eden Store and the failure of CCP to deliver on WiS. How can that possibly be interpreted as the players not wanting CCP to deliver at all?
Do not run. We are your friends.
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Crasniya
Strange Energy The Bastion
559
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Posted - 2015.01.07 15:16:57 -
[53] - Quote
Laken Starr wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:They actually threw a fit over micro transactions for fear of EVE becoming pay to win. Do your research. Ahh, I thought they were two separate fits but close chronologically. I just remember a lot of posts about barbies in space.
There were two issues:
* Not working on spaceships. * Macro-transactions ($70 monocle) with discussion of pay-to-win.
They blurred together into one storm of childish rage we call the Summer of Rage. CCP just basically murdered everything worth doing because of it, because they weren't able to discern the issues in question from their plans.
Pay-to-win was never actually on the table. A hypothetical opinion piece in an "opposing viewpoints" setting, in an internal newsletter only intended for employees was the only source that that might be a thing. It's ridiculous to believe it was going to happen, because it wasn't.
The reality is though, CCP needs to work less on spaceships. Spaceships are the best working part of their franchise. And also the least important. This is a political game more than anything else, and the social components are the rot that is going to kill it. Walking in Stations, corp management, etc. is what needs love and attention.
Also, CCP is leaving money on the table by not doing WiS. In addition to the fact that the game would attract many more players with WiS, there's a valuable micro-transaction market in customizing your quarters. Buying different furniture or such. There's a lot of useless hangar items we already have, like ship models, books, etc. which could also be displayed in our Captain's Quarters if we have them.
Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - [email protected]
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1415
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Posted - 2015.01.07 16:00:16 -
[54] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Laken Starr wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:They actually threw a fit over micro transactions for fear of EVE becoming pay to win. Do your research. Ahh, I thought they were two separate fits but close chronologically. I just remember a lot of posts about barbies in space. There were two issues: * Not working on spaceships. * Macro-transactions ($70 monocle) with discussion of pay-to-win.
Four, actually:
3) Their development model was unbelievably wasteful. Among other things, they had the art department do a full, final mockup of CQ for each design iteration. I'd bet that the artists still have nightmares about that.
4) They completely forgot that they were designing a game. No, seriously: I think it's been pulled down, but there was a promotional video from CCP talking about their investment in virtual high fashion, with CARBON technology being used in displays in real-world designer stores and so on. Nothing to do with EVE, or for that matter, WoD. When I say that our characters walk like runway models, I mean it: the animations are motion-captured runway models, intended to show off virtual fashion. And while there's nothing intrinsically wrong with a broad range of options to make your character a distinct individual, ideally the focus would still be on making them distinct individual characters within the game, in ways that match the lore of the world.
The hilarious thing is that the monocle succeeded as designed. They've sold decently well, and they're used to convey conspicuous consumption, exactly as they were meant to. You don't have to pay real-world money, of course, but that still gets across that you're (space-)rich enough to blow a tremendous amount of ISK on a cosmetic item.
So basically, CCP flubbed the execution badly, except for the monocle (ha!). If they go back to the original 2007-ish vision for ambulation, and if they apply the rapid-development tools they now have and use them within their new development practices, I believe they can do a much better job of it, and without neglecting their game or traumatizing their art department this time. Will they? Signs point to 'not any time soon.' For one thing, I think the EVE 2.0 project is a much higher priority, and I have to agree that that makes sense. The more old, creaky code is ripped out of the game, and the more love the underlying engine gets, the easier it will be for CCP to enlarge the game without getting ensnared in awful old legacy code, and the more likely that they'll have the player base behind them when they decide to try it.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
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Crasniya
Strange Energy The Bastion
559
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Posted - 2015.01.07 18:33:44 -
[55] - Quote
Honestly, my personal feel, is that if you talk "EVE 2.0", they should stop trying to fix the EVE client. CCP's current other projects (DUST, Legion, Valkyrie, etc.) use Unreal Engine, which is an industry standard product that's easy to work with, compatible with everything, etc. Elite: Dangerous and Star Citizen are both planning to implement comprehensive scifi universes in a single game. CCP should figure out how to consolidate it's existing Unreal properties in the future, and use Valkyrie as the starting point to developing a replacement for EVE. With a first person "Walking in Stations" viewpoint from the getgo, and moving from small single-person ships up to large multi-crewed capital ships.
But I really don't think CCP will ever do that, to be honest.
Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - [email protected]
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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
228
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Posted - 2015.01.08 11:20:32 -
[56] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote: The hilarious thing is that the monocle succeeded as designed. They've sold decently well, and they're used to convey conspicuous consumption, exactly as they were meant to. You don't have to pay real-world money, of course, but that still gets across that you're (space-)rich enough to blow a tremendous amount of ISK on a cosmetic item.
So basically, CCP flubbed the execution badly, except for the monocle (ha!). If they go back to the original 2007-ish vision for ambulation, and if they apply the rapid-development tools they now have and use them within their new development practices, I believe they can do a much better job of it, and without neglecting their game or traumatizing their art department this time. Will they? Signs point to 'not any time soon.' For one thing, I think the EVE 2.0 project is a much higher priority, and I have to agree that that makes sense. The more old, creaky code is ripped out of the game, and the more love the underlying engine gets, the easier it will be for CCP to enlarge the game without getting ensnared in awful old legacy code, and the more likely that they'll have the player base behind them when they decide to try it.
The monocles did sell well after 40 hours, when CCP Hilmar's Leaked Email appeared on Evenews24 it said: source: http://archive.evenews24.com/2011/06/25/ccp-hilmar-global-email-shows-the-reasoning-behind-ccp-zulu-devblog/
Quote:After 40 hours we have already sold 52 monocles, generating more revenue than any of the other items in the store.
However due to the misguided upper echelon ccpgames management directions, a **** storm soon ensued especially when the greed-is-good internal newsletter got on the interwebs to. source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-23-ccp-greed-is-good
The whole issue with CCPgames at the time was summoned up by the Mittani. source: http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/spymaster/63
Quote:CCPGÇÖs terrible record with player communication
Folowing that the CSM with the Mittani as it's head was called to Iceland, you have to figure out that the cost involved to get the CSM to handle the debacle of the misguided communication from CCPgames would be greater then the revenue of those monocles. An accord was reached at CCP/Player Council special summit.
source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kat_uoAvnk
To get a bigger and perhaps clearer picture of why CCPgames almost went belly up you can listen to DJ Funkybacon (current CSM9 member) rewind on Eve Radio
Source: http://eve-radio.com/media/podcast-download
Sadly The Company was left in a bad shape because upper management wanted to sell a "few" monocles to get better income from seeing us as cash-cows. In the end to survive as a company CCP had to lay of 20% of it's staff.:
source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/10/23/eve-evolved-the-human-casualties/5
CCP Hilmar ( Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO) had to issue an apology to it's customers, the supposed cash-cows.
To any forum moderator, this is not a rant it is part of eve online history and why we still have no proper Ambulation (WiS) and have to wait till competitors pressure the Company to invest limited resources into a better iterated of Walking in Stattions again.
The players will make a better version of the game, then CCP initially plans.
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
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Ilandrin Yona
Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing
32
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Posted - 2015.01.15 17:37:47 -
[57] - Quote
I support the idea of expanding Captains Quarter. They are kind of an embarrassment right now. At the very least I'd like the ability to modify the quarters with decorations. Though ultimately there's no point to walking in stations if we can't interact with other players.
... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... ....... ... ..... .......
My Eve Biography:
Ilandrin Yona
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Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
262
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:24:42 -
[58] - Quote
I strongly support anything that gives alternative for ship spinning.
If I have understood correctly NEX store was suppose to replace EVE store. This was probably reason why they tried to sell overpriced monocles. No one was thinking that EVE store and NEX store could coexist with each other both bringing in cash to EVE development. Later they closed EVE store and reopened it with old items gone and with few new items.
Mikhem
Link library to EVE music songs.
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Catalytic morphisis
Future Methods
83
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Posted - 2015.01.22 11:18:49 -
[59] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:How about first they fix the beds.
Not only are they shorter than any of us ... ... there's no damn room for a second person!
Besides above or below, of course..... Why do they assume we all want a standard bed either? I want a huge 12 Person spinning Circular bed, You never know when you're gonna need an orgy!
Quad Boxing Trading Extroadinaire, Actual Link free solo PvP'er
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Flamespar
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
1286
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Posted - 2015.01.24 04:14:55 -
[60] - Quote
Freelancer117 wrote: Lots of accurate and true stuff
Sadly too many people blame Incarna, rather than CCPs management.
EVE Chronicle: An audio drama set in the EVE universe
http://evechronicle.blogspot.com.au/
https://twitter.com/Flamespar
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