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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 142 post(s) |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
95
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Posted - 2014.07.22 14:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Nice broken launch CCP.
is this a joke? |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
95
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Posted - 2014.07.22 14:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
you applied your material increase to compensate for waste TO CAPITALS. there is no waste with capitals due to component assembly. Good job hiking up the bill of materials on ALL caps.
thanks |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
95
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Posted - 2014.07.22 14:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Freibuis wrote:So yeah Expensive prints are useless now? Cant lock them in POS's making then station locked.. but then cant copy/produce off them remotely either,
Who the F would put a 50Bill isk print in a POS that cant be locked down?
Maybe a rollback to game play/design where we can remotely put on jobs into to a POS until we can lock down these prints.
or maybe acknowledge that the game lore supports the concept of remote database access, and that the schematics shouldn't even need to be in the starbase at all. but whatever.
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Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
95
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Posted - 2014.07.22 15:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Miyazaki Hetoshi wrote:
Eliminating 90% of the reason to even use a POS?
yes because conflict drivers were the reason, not the isk sink... im with you man |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
95
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Posted - 2014.07.22 15:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Contra wrote:Fixy FixIT wrote:When installing a job at a POS, the cost of installing the job is being taken from the Corp Master Wallet........
Surely, this cost should come from the member who is installing the job. Even better if it was deducted from the member and given to the Corp Master Wallet as charge for using corp labs.
Currently its given to Secure Commerce Commission.
Is this intentional or is it a bug ?
Regards. By Design
why? |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
95
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Posted - 2014.07.22 16:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Victor Helion wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:Victor Helion wrote:Job costs on ME research appear to be completely screwed. Just plugged in a fullerene intercalated sheets BPO in one of my tower labs to ME10 and this happened:
2014.07.22 15:59:07Researching Material Efficiency-255,002,744.00 ISK Material efficiency research job fee between Helion Ventures and Secure Commerce Commission (Job ID: 229989219)
That's 255 million isk to research a BPO that costs 10m to buy. We have begun looking into the cost system to see if the prices it is requiring are correct or not. Found a couple more: Emergent neurovisual interface, 392 million for ME 10. Neurovisual output analyzer, 592 million for ME 10. not to mention the screenshot I linked before, 2% research on a charon bpo 237 days, 4.8 billion fee |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
95
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Posted - 2014.07.22 16:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
its pretty obvious that ccp wants to spread the concentration out from jita, and the fee index is a plain tool to get the job done.
issue is.. PCU numbers are NOT going up and most of these changes are not encouraging for the "player driven economy" that ccp is proud of. |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
98
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Posted - 2014.07.23 04:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mackenzie Nolen wrote:Veinnail wrote:Victor Helion wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:Victor Helion wrote:Job costs on ME research appear to be completely screwed. Just plugged in a fullerene intercalated sheets BPO in one of my tower labs to ME10 and this happened:
2014.07.22 15:59:07Researching Material Efficiency-255,002,744.00 ISK Material efficiency research job fee between Helion Ventures and Secure Commerce Commission (Job ID: 229989219)
That's 255 million isk to research a BPO that costs 10m to buy. We have begun looking into the cost system to see if the prices it is requiring are correct or not. Found a couple more: Emergent neurovisual interface, 392 million for ME 10. Neurovisual output analyzer, 592 million for ME 10. not to mention the screenshot I linked before, 2% research on a charon bpo 237 days, 4.8 billion fee 237 days sounds about right with the changes made. That is not a mistake. The 4b also seems consistent with the pricing seen on sisi, though that has been hard to judge with the arbitrary data over there. then why does 1 run attempt result in a 70 day job? it literally compounds from 70 to 237 by adding a second material level job. |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
98
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Posted - 2014.07.23 04:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
upping the material needs on everything huge isk sinks.
abusive attempts to sell plex imo |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
98
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Posted - 2014.07.23 04:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lady Aesir wrote: Come on you must have replaced your economist with a competent replacement who would have pointed out such a crazy system.
clearly not |
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Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
98
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Posted - 2014.07.23 14:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
OK I would like to put this bit into perspective. Lets say someone made a living building Black Ops/Marauder hulls. This producer built everything they used in the process. All components, ships, and RAM. Aside from PI products.
As example, this is a Blackops -1me/-1pe (using process decryptor) Before the Patch the needs were as follows.
Sensors 720 Reactor 120 Thruster 180 Microprocessor 5040 Capacitor Unit 1800 Shield Emitter 1307 Armor Plate 15000 RAM starship tech 20 Capital jump drive 2 Construction blocks 360 T1 variant Battleship hull 1
After the patch the same blueprint, has new numbers.
Sensors 819 (13.75% increase) Reactor 137 (14.16% increase) Thruster 205 (13.88% increase) Microprocessor 5773 (14.54% increase) Capacitor Unit 2048 (13.77% increase) Shield Emitter 1487 (13.77% increase) Armor Plate 17063 (13.75% increase) RAM starship tech 28 (40% increase) Capital jump drive 3 (50% increase) Construction blocks 410 (13.88% increase) T1 variant Battleship hull 1
Okay, so the increase to bill of materials is an issue that builders have confronted in the past and we've dealt with it. Now just for discussion let us pursue this more.
Lets say this particular bulider has the liberty to be setting up shop at a new location. They choose a location that presents a low index. They are going to be producing full time and expect to keep 30-40 slots going consistently. Now that many of the items they produce take longer, that means that the index will have a more costly impact vs old production times. Fees add up quickly and quickly the Slot hours to build a T2 hull eat away at the profit margin. Obviously in Higher indexed systems, there will be no profit margin.
Note: it is worth noting that the racial components have also had changes. its typically just one or two pieces of carbide per, but they are changes. (on -10%/-20% bpo)
Note: just completed invention jobs that had process decryptors installed. -5%/-10% results.. Crius = isk dumpster.
I am really getting the vibe that CCP needs to sell plex and w |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
98
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Posted - 2014.07.23 15:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Veinnail wrote:OK I would like to put this bit into perspective. Lets say someone made a living building Black Ops/Marauder hulls. This producer built everything they used in the process. All components, ships, and RAM. Aside from PI products.
I've just spent the last 20 minutes Calculating total SLOT hours to build all the materials for a single black ops hull with the Old numbers and the new numbers. These numbers are using station slot speed with beancounter 4% implant.
These times to NOT include the actual assembly of the Black ops hull. which is about 2.5 days or 60 hours.
Pre-Crius. 248 Slot hours used to produce the bill of materials for a black ops.
Post-Crius. 271 Slot hours used to produce the bill of materials for a black ops.
overall we see roughly 9% increase in time to produce the materials. so with averaging material need increase of 13% on the old -1/-1 bpcs. The producer is taking a 9% spike to his slot hours, and having that much more impact on the index. |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
98
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Posted - 2014.07.23 15:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
I came into this, prepared to suffer a lower throughput because I wasn't willing to stage insane values of BPO in a control tower's hangars. I never expected to get kicked in the teeth by the fees, the increased material requirements and the botching of invention. |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
98
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Posted - 2014.07.25 16:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aluka 7th wrote:I managed to find quiet system. On star map is shows that in last 24hours only 9 R/D jobs were installed and that index is 0.00. BUT Industry index (red bar) in my facility rose to half and cost already increased 5 fold. Since Crius, I have installed 6 jobs that lasted 16h and 4 jobs that lasted 7hours and that got index to half red?! Little steep IMHO. Is that intended? Star map shows low activity but facility cost being at half red already?!
They need to implement a threshold where the base costs stay "understandable" untill the system gets heavily loaded.
this system is built as an isk sink in its current state. |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
98
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Posted - 2014.07.25 17:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ezeus wrote:When you announced the changes on the BPO ME and PE you basically said that existing bpos that were researched would stay the same or get better, well that is not the case.
Just tried to start a job with my archon BPO which was ME 5 and wasting only 1 drone bay,
Now its me 9 and wasting 1 cap engine 1 power generator 1 battery 1 construction parts 1 jump drive 1 armor plates 1 corporate hangar 1 ship maintenance
To me this BPO actually got worst than what it was
this BPO is now not competitive on the market due to the patch. the last line, this is a widespread concern.
ofcourse we're expected to adjust our current stocks value and push on ~dealwithit?~
rounding up damaged the market. |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
98
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Posted - 2014.07.27 17:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Your cost index is too steep.
also, it is a great intel tool for finding where supercapitals are being built. thanks for eliminating the need to scout. |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
99
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Posted - 2014.07.29 16:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dareth Astrar wrote:Veinnail wrote:Your cost index is too steep.
also, it is a great intel tool for finding where supercapitals are being built. thanks for eliminating the need to scout.
I have to admit Veinnail, one I hadn't even considered. That's a very good point, yet another intel disclosing item which hasn't required your enemies to do any form of in-game investigation. I had thought when I mentioned they would have to give out more information via API to accommodate for their change in calculations it was going to be cause for concern on the load applied to the API servers, but this one related to Cost-Index adjustments and increases is an obvious major intel disclosure issue. Now it's out there, I doubt they'll be able to take it back. Obviously moving that kind of production constantly isn't possible, ohh dear this is a rather major game play issue affected.
yes this is a huge oversight. The index needs a threshold, a system should be able to sustain a certain number of process hours before the index spikes. A single supercapital producer (lets say 100-150 slots full time) should not make a visible hotspot on the map.
edit, I still think there should be a system or constellation computation BEFORE trending vs the rest of the universe. But that was what they abandoned when they dumped the idea of stacking modules in pos to reduce cost. Yes I agree that stacking the modules was silly, but there had to be another way to allow users to appreciate a benefit of using control tower in the first place (speaking mostly in terms of manufacturing here) |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
99
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Posted - 2014.07.29 16:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
After today's patch my UI will not allow me to enter more than one invention job without having to close the UI once or twice to get it to use the next bpc.
if this is noted already, disregard. |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
99
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Posted - 2014.07.29 17:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:There is a threshold, we floor the index at something like 0.1% iirc. In any event, if there's a legitimate problem the data's all out there so it should be pretty easy to demonstrate. Show us a concrete example of using this to pick out supercap build sites and we'll look at it and see if we find it problematic Like I said this is not a problem: prepatch to see every single CSAA in, say, northern associates space all I had to do was put an alt with no roles in the alliance and start poking through the S&I tab. I don't think anyone has bothered to manually scout a CSAA build system in years.
thats nice, but what we're talking about are leading indicators visible with map functions. the meta of spy tactics is not turn for this discussion. |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
99
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Posted - 2014.07.30 15:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:is the added materials to bpos that previously did not have waste intentional and if not when is that getting fixed?
this is something we'd like to see addressed, the majority of t2ships have seen a significant price hike due to material needs that just don't add up. It really appears as if the base materials were upped more than just "waste" amounts. |
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Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
99
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Posted - 2014.07.30 16:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
the broad material hike on t2 ships will sell more plex when the winter wars come. good business plan, milk those junkies for every drop.
This winds back to my original point that it isn't the producers who will be impacted, but the end user. |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
101
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Posted - 2014.07.30 17:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:Veinnail wrote:the broad material hike on t2 ships will sell more plex when the winter wars come. good business plan, milk those junkies for every drop.
This winds back to my original point that it isn't the producers who will be impacted, but the end user. You assume that your coalition will actually start fighting someone during the Winter Time. Also when is the date of the winter wars considering their is no direct Winter Expansion anymore and just monthly releases. On another note.. If that end user is in a Tech 2 and has yet to figure out how to make isk... then Milk them until they learn. Let's also see how badly screwed up T2 winds up now that they're missing with them again. So far tho I have not seen my industry completely screwed enough that I can't compensate the changes to keep who I fly with from buying Plex's. Wallets Fat enough think I can give back to the end user for a bit :)
winter wars seem to be more related to the snow outside than the political climate of eve. Higher PCU more wars tends to be a trend, anyone care to prove that?
also, don't obsess with coalitions/corp/ect. think we can go beyond that for this right? |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
101
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Posted - 2014.07.31 16:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Wolfensrevenge wrote: Agreed now when we get rid of T2 BPO's all these account plexing rmting soabs will be gone and the EvE pyramid will be transformed in to eve capitalism for the betterment of the universe.
By that you mean the plex pyramid? someone has to buy plex, CCP makes more money from plex subscriptions than traditional credit card subs, big money industrialists (no I am not one) account for a slim margin of the plex market. Getting rid of those bpos will only divert their invested production funds to another project. I am a cheap skate and my time is more valuable to just pay the majority of my accounts with RLcash.
I am curious to see how expensive those t2 cruisers finally settle out at. Both BOM and market value. For the Arcade players, plex will not go as far as it once did (reshipping) and there is CCPs motive. imo |
Veinnail
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
102
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Posted - 2014.08.10 15:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
all of the various t2 ship trees follow a certain conformity of material needs. meaning all four of each t2 variant uses the same component list.
The exception i've noticed is the command ships, eos and astarte deviate from this pattern.
the following links are side by side comparison of the two tiers of command ships.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108852864/Commands.JPG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108852864/Commands2.JPG
was this intentional?
FYI: crossposted to industry blueprint data thread also |
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