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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3603
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Posted - 2014.05.13 21:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Zor Iwaira wrote:mynnna wrote:If you wish to make the assumption that a line has been crossed, you are welcome to do so. I can only point out that your opinion is wrong, not change it or stop you from holding it. Let's just adhere to the important fact that an official CSM representative should not spread false rumors on the official forum in an attempt to crash a market / to generate profits for his alliance. Whether you cross that line or not is up to you young lady. frankly, I can't find the line in the white paper that says a csm representative is not allowed to spread false rumors in an attempt to manipulate a market. can you show it to me? I mean it is kind of a moot point, since there are no false rumors involved in this thread as the previously linked video clearly demonstrates. A lot of people seem to not understand what the CSM is, how it works, and what they do.
Becoming a CSM member doesn't mean the person has to change in any way. CSM are only expected to represent their voters to CCP. If they changed, then they wouldn't be doing that.
Outside of official CSM business, one can ignore the CSM tags, especially outside of the CSM forums. |
Seith Kali
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
56
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Posted - 2014.05.14 10:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
mynnna wrote: There's also an unquantifiable here - with the removal of slots, invention ought to get a fair bit easier. Presumably, that leads to more people doing it, which leads to more people in the market, which means more price competition, which means lower prices.
And that isn't even close to the effect and improved UI is going to have. If we are moving to single click 'favourite' jobs the big guys will be able to out put 4-5x what they are currently for comparable effort levels, albeit with a couple more alts. This, alone, is going to decimate some of the better module margins as effort is very much the bottleneck in those markets currently. Incidentally these happen to include a number of the current better T2 bpos to have. Apprentice Goonswarm Economic Warfare Consultant - Drowning in entitlement and privilege.-á |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1968
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 03:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
i read this thread with some fava beans and a nice chianti.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
joyous the
Slippery Penguin The Crystal Palace
72
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Posted - 2014.05.16 09:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
It is a renaissance of the t2 bpo. Giving it back to the poor man, by collapsing the market. The prints will change hands, a changing of the guard. Some will panic sell. For a while things may be "cheap". But in the long run, in eve, where everyone lives forever, and everyone gets rich, those that end up with them become the new guard, and the kings of the new bubble. |
Retar Aveymone
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
361
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Posted - 2014.05.16 11:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zor Iwaira wrote:To keep this fair and balanced, just remember: CCP Eterne wrote:An FYI to cease the rumor mongering that is happening in this (and other) threads:
There are currently no plans to remove T2 BPOs from the game. (source: CCP Dev Post) that post got edited
"There are currently no immediate plans to remove T2 BPOs from the game."
figuring out why eterne had to go back and add that word is left as an exercise for the reader |
HeXxploiT
Rhongomiant Legion Industries The Explicit Alliance
23
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Posted - 2014.05.17 03:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Fishbone wrote:Personally, I am sick and tired of hearing all the whining about T2 BPO vs T2 BPC (Invention)
(Now pardon me as I proceed to whine)
T2 BPO need to be either removed form the game, or seeded on the market. Plain and simple. That will solve this issue of "because I paid X amount of isk, I need to recoup the cost".
The T2 BPO's out there right now, the majority of them were passed out like candy back in the day when behind closed door deals were being done, and we all know when that time was, and who did it, and who benefited the most.
The way there were suppose to be introduced became a laughing joke. Then they resorted to "RP Auctions", yet it seemed like a select few were the ones that ever "won" these auctions. Then the general public found out that T2 BPO were being passed out. So am I complaining about how broke of a system T2 BPO's are in game, damn straight.
But that doesn't give everyone the right to constantly complain about this getting nerf, that getting nerf. All you care about is how much isk you stand to gain or lose. I for one am tired of it. Wanna risk your isk, there are plenty of Isk Doublers in Jita.
Fixed.
Who cares. I'm sorry that you missed out the first time around. Maybe this time you will heed the queues and trade them while they are moving like a roller coaster. Then perhaps you won't have so much to cry about. |
Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists Intergalactic Conservation Movement
123
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
The dirty speculator that I am here is my prediction with the invention changes coming down the pipe.
Invention Base ME (& PE ??) goes from -4 to 0. To compensate for this change, the build requirements of all T2 items is increased. Prices remain similar but the gap between invention and T2 BPOs shrinks dramatically.
T2 BPO owners are still marginally price competitive but until CCP revamps the invention UI and install process, T2 BPO will win out majorly in the isk/effort category.
It is a game of Hot Potato!
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HeXxploiT
Rhongomiant Legion Industries The Explicit Alliance
25
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Posted - 2014.05.18 01:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sir SmashAlot wrote:The dirty speculator that I am here is my prediction with the invention changes coming down the pipe.
Invention Base ME (& PE ??) goes from -4 to 0. To compensate for this change, the build requirements of all T2 items is increased. Prices remain similar but the gap between invention and T2 BPOs shrinks dramatically.
T2 BPO owners are still marginally price competitive but until CCP revamps the invention UI and install process, T2 BPO will win out majorly in the isk/effort category.
It is a game of Hot Potato!
Well said. How many more years will I be able to get away with pumping out copies if & when more significant changes occur. |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
355
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 06:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Zor Iwaira wrote:To keep this fair and balanced, just remember: CCP Eterne wrote:An FYI to cease the rumor mongering that is happening in this (and other) threads:
There are currently no plans to remove T2 BPOs from the game. (source: CCP Dev Post) that post got edited "There are currently no immediate plans to remove T2 BPOs from the game." figuring out why eterne had to go back and add that word is left as an exercise for the reader i found that figuring out why eterne had to go and post both a warning and a threat in there to begin with was more fun of an exercise
....'will be dealt with harshly'... strong words to come from a CCP tag
:tinfoil: |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1085
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 14:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4613373#post4613373
CCP Greyscale wrote:We would prefer to give a longer definite warning before changes to T2 BPOs themselves. I'm not ruling out something forcing our hand, but in the absence of that we're hoping not to have to tackle them head-on in Crius. Yeah, it's all a goon plot. T2 BPOs are going to stay the same forever so you should buy as many as you can right now. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
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Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
127
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Posted - 2014.05.22 03:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
mynnna wrote:frankly, I can't find the line in the white paper that says a csm representative is not allowed to spread false rumors in an attempt to manipulate a market. can you show it to me? I mean it is kind of a moot point, since there are no false rumors involved in this thread as the previously linked video clearly demonstrates. This thread reminds me of ... "It depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is" B. Clinton
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HeXxploiT
Rhongomiant Legion Industries The Explicit Alliance
29
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Posted - 2014.05.22 06:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
Actually this has been more disappointing than I had anticipated. I only got a really good deal on ONE T2 bpo before prices seemed to float right back to where they were.
That didn't last as long as I'd hoped. |
Far Wanderer
Bank of Far
64
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 07:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:Actually this has been more disappointing than I had anticipated. I only got a really good deal on ONE T2 bpo before prices seemed to float right back to where they were. That didn't last as long as I'd hoped. That's one more good deal than I got, so from where I'm sitting you're in the lead. I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn |
Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2014.05.22 07:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
made about 200bill profit on that bpo scare. thanks a lot goons. <3 |
Altalicious
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 10:51:00 -
[45] - Quote
Couple of items (maybe more):
1. Will not sell my T2 BPOs, ever, period. Even with the proposed nerf/buff having a BPO means you never have to invent that item. This can be huge especially when it comes to ships. Ammo, on the other hand, not so much.
2. Most of my sales come from invented BPCs.
3. I invent way more BPCs than I can produce.
4. Markets are driven by -4/-4 bpc prices. This gives a huge advantage to the T2 BPOs. So using decrypters that improve your ME does nothing but help your profitability.'
5. It's not rocket surgery. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3445
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 11:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
Altalicious wrote: 4. Markets are driven by -4/-4 bpc prices. This gives a huge advantage to the T2 BPOs. So using decrypters that improve your ME does nothing but help your profitability.
Are you aware that negative ME is going? Invented BPCs will supposedly have positive ME going forward, which reduces build cost in a massive way. The gap that T2 BPOs currently enjoy will not exist once the invention changes are brought in. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
Altalicious
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 11:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Altalicious wrote: 4. Markets are driven by -4/-4 bpc prices. This gives a huge advantage to the T2 BPOs. So using decrypters that improve your ME does nothing but help your profitability.
Are you aware that negative ME is going? Invented BPCs will supposedly have positive ME going forward, which reduces build cost in a massive way. The gap that T2 BPOs currently enjoy will not exist once the invention changes are brought in.
Yep and I am still not too concerned. I doubt if people will lower their prices a significant amount just because the ME gets improved. I know how much these items cost to build and for some items this is not a significant improvement.
I read that 80% of invented T2 BPCs are for self use and those items never make it to market. But I also know a lot of others don't do the industrialist thing. So someone has to do it. |
joyous the
Slippery Penguin The Crystal Palace
73
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 08:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
What's going to happen is t2 bpos will be brought in line. Which will unload the full force of the market. Inflation will skyrocket to keep in line with plex. Which in turn will make t2 bpos worth even more.
Where's the firesales? You're all fools. You think they'll just remove something from the game? Where in 10 years, backs that theory.
Boom |
Felicity Love
It Was the Year 3030
1824
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 21:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:Anyone taking advantage of blood in the water?
Anyone else playing the T2 BPO crazyness? It ain't real money folks. Big risks=big gains. Little risk=run of the mill daytrader.
Naw... the big money is yet to come... T2 BPO's are, well, "soooooooooo yesterday".
"HTFU ! " -á--- -áKatee Sackhoff, aka "The F-Bomb Queen of EVE" ! !-á
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3453
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 10:49:00 -
[50] - Quote
joyous the wrote:Which in turn will make t2 bpos worth even more. Pretty much all of the decent economic predictions for the changes to come estimate that the profit margins on T2 BPOs will halve once the invention ME changes roll on. I very much doubt their price will remain as high as it has, since most aim for a price of about 8-10 years profit to cover the cost. Half the margins mean twice the time to cover, so in turn the value should drop. It may lead to people pushing the asking prices up, but anyone that buys a T2 BPO that generates half the profit at double the cost is pretty insane, so sales will be few and far between at that price.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
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Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
397
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 23:37:00 -
[51] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:joyous the wrote:Which in turn will make t2 bpos worth even more. Pretty much all of the decent economic predictions for the changes to come estimate that the profit margins on T2 BPOs will halve once the invention ME changes roll on. I very much doubt their price will remain as high as it has, since most aim for a price of about 8-10 years profit to cover the cost. Half the margins mean twice the time to cover, so in turn the value should drop. It may lead to people pushing the asking prices up, but anyone that buys a T2 BPO that generates half the profit at double the cost is pretty insane, so sales will be few and far between at that price. Yep. Although certain people (and their alts ) are trying to act as if nothing has changed, their prints are going to drop at least 50% in value from the looks of things... and that may only be the start |
joyous the
Slippery Penguin The Crystal Palace
73
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 01:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:joyous the wrote:Which in turn will make t2 bpos worth even more. Pretty much all of the decent economic predictions for the changes to come estimate that the profit margins on T2 BPOs will halve once the invention ME changes roll on. I very much doubt their price will remain as high as it has, since most aim for a price of about 8-10 years profit to cover the cost. Half the margins mean twice the time to cover, so in turn the value should drop. It may lead to people pushing the asking prices up, but anyone that buys a T2 BPO that generates half the profit at double the cost is pretty insane, so sales will be few and far between at that price.
But here's the kicker. Inventors start making far greater money. With greater wealth, things unobtainable for the common poor i.e, the inventors, become obtainable. They become the new class. And the desire, as its always been. Is the ease of afk generation of isk. The t2 mother ******* bpo. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
204
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 02:00:00 -
[53] - Quote
Man I thought that post was going to be some pretty 101-level not-really-understanding-the-invention-market but it turned out to be a Dinsdale-esque work of art.
It's not going to be a huge change for Inventors. They're already primarily in a rat-race with each other outside of a few things that have small enough markets to be controlled by the limited output of a BPO. A BPO doesn't have much affect on a saturated market; it just generates a nice stream of low-effort income for the holder since his margins are much wider and he doesn't have to muck around with BPCs and decryptors and such. If Invention becomes more competitive with BPOs, it doesn't change much for the Inventor because his actual competition was already other Inventors. It just means the BPO guy suddenly doesn't make as much money.
On the other hand, a smart BPO holder would have already sold his stuff as soon as he realized he could have put a decade's worth of income in his pocket right now. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3567
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 04:14:00 -
[54] - Quote
joyous the wrote: CCP has stated they have no immediate plans to remove them/ And I've never once - except in error - said they have plans to remove them, either.
That does not preclude plans to cut their ****ing heads off.
joyous the wrote:When has goon ever been true? When has anything, they've ever done or said been true? Do you really want me to start cataloging all the times I've been right?
Voyager Arran wrote:Man I thought that post was going to be some pretty 101-level not-really-understanding-the-invention-market but it turned out to be a Dinsdale-esque work of art.
It's not going to be a huge change for Inventors. They're already primarily in a rat-race with each other outside of a few things that have small enough markets to be controlled by the limited output of a BPO. A BPO doesn't have much affect on a saturated market; it just generates a nice stream of low-effort income for the holder since his margins are much wider and he doesn't have to muck around with BPCs and decryptors and such. If Invention becomes more competitive with BPOs, it doesn't change much for the Inventor because his actual competition was already other Inventors. It just means the BPO guy suddenly doesn't make as much money.
On the other hand, a smart BPO holder would have already sold his stuff as soon as he realized he could have put a decade's worth of income in his pocket right now.
Yeah, pretty much this. Make Invention yield positive or at worst 0 ME, adjust materials of the build to make up for the reduction in material consumption. Profit margin for an inventor doesn't change - if anything it might even drop a bit from more competition, depending on what other changes are made. The majority downside here falls almost entirely on BPO owners. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2962
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 04:27:00 -
[55] - Quote
I am loving watching everyone point out everywhere they think Mynnna is incorrect or deliberately misleading in this thread.
There are definitely times Mynnna is deliberately misleading, and probably times he's wrong. This thread is not one of them. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
joyous the
Slippery Penguin The Crystal Palace
73
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 00:26:00 -
[56] - Quote
Where's the panic then? I've said all I could. I've always been a fighter for the poor man. You heed my advice or you don't. Simple as that, I've stated the facts. Nothing in eve depreciates. Imagine the market and imagine google earth, the +/-, hit the - and look a bit bigger. The context. At the end of the day your dealing with years, decades, multiple decades. That is what EVE is. And that is the notion being misinterpreted by the incorrect set of lenses. You can join us, or don't. We don't care. All we know, is we'll be there. |
Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
214
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 01:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
This is just word salad with a few economic terms sprinkled over the top like spergy croutons. |
joyous the
Slippery Penguin The Crystal Palace
73
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 05:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
And you guys, every one of you, seem hell bent on spreading this single notion. But why? |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
402
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 05:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
joyous the wrote:Nothing in eve depreciates. probably the funniest thing i've read today |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3466
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 07:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
joyous the wrote:But here's the kicker. Inventors start making far greater money. With greater wealth, things unobtainable for the common poor i.e, the inventors, become obtainable. They become the new class. And the desire, as its always been. Is the ease of afk generation of isk. The mother ******* t2 bpo. lol, a lot of people don't consider a T2 BPO to be end game industry. It's a terrible investment with an absolutely awful ROI, and that keeps getting worse as the price gets pushed up while the market price of the product doesn't. theres no way that inventors are going to be saying "Well I've made a heap of profit, lets spend 20 years of BPO profit on a BPO". That's just wishful thinking.
joyous the wrote:Look at the facts. Yes, look at the facts. CCP stated the value "will go down". CCP stated that there will be a "transitional plan" not just a "take them away and say screw you" (transitional plan to... what? The context suggest removal). CCP also stated there are no plans to remove them, then later revised that to no "immediate" plans (why the change if they will never be removed). Then look at the fact that the gap between BPOs and invention is being considerably reduced. Lets face it, if you look at the facts, they suggest that T2 BPOs have a limited shelf life and will lose a lot of value. The only thing going against that is people saying "nope!" with no actual evidence to support it. Look at yourself, your only "evidence" is that goons are saying it will go down, lol.
joyous the wrote:When has goon ever been true? When has anything, they've ever done or said been true? It's a scam, by the biggest scammers in the game to cause panic in a market that involves trillions of isk. Except, you know, loads of things they've said and done being true and all that.
joyous the wrote:The facts at the end of the day is that t2 bpos will not be removed, nothing in this game has been deleted in 10 years. Well that in itself is not a fact, loads of things have been removed and more things will be. At the end of the day when they build new mechanics, older ones need to go. They can't just keep every old idea around for eternity. You might get to keep the item to collect, but the function it has will not exist forever. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. |
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