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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
27
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 22:41:00 -
[241] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:Malcanis wrote:Money Makin Mitch wrote:I'm pretty ticked off that I wasted 10d x6 training a skill to 5 that I didn't need and is now being removed from the game.
I trained that skill abut 6 years ago. It was worth it for me then, and it was worth it for you when you trained it. I only trained it b/c of the devblog, and I only trained it in the last few weeks. Was not worth it at all.
Same, and now feel I've wasted the last 5 days of training or so. |
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
27
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 22:47:00 -
[242] - Quote
Xasnevian wrote: I say, go back to CCP Rise's proposal.
I concur. |
Walter Hart White
Heisenberg Minings
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 23:08:00 -
[243] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Tippia wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:I guess I'm missing something here. Probably the word GÇ£trainingGÇ¥ in GÇ£training advantageGÇ¥. To get the same advantages as you have now, people will in the future have to train for longer. Quote:Performance wise they will either remain the same or gain. Yes, but the training required to get that performance will increase, and so will the gaps between the different stages of having the skills trained. Maybe I misunderstood the nature of James' complaint then. I took it to mean that what he was losing was the performance difference he trained for, rather than the training time change. Edit: Actually, he's losing in training advantage as you describe it to anyone who trained SDO V but CDO to anything less than V.
If someone decides to train CDO to V because of dev blog they lost the days they trained it. That is the loss. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
747
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 23:27:00 -
[244] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Tippia wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:I guess I'm missing something here. Probably the word GÇ£trainingGÇ¥ in GÇ£training advantageGÇ¥. To get the same advantages as you have now, people will in the future have to train for longer. Quote:Performance wise they will either remain the same or gain. Yes, but the training required to get that performance will increase, and so will the gaps between the different stages of having the skills trained. Maybe I misunderstood the nature of James' complaint then. I took it to mean that what he was losing was the performance difference he trained for, rather than the training time change. Edit: Actually, he's losing in training advantage as you describe it to anyone who trained SDO V but CDO to anything less than V. If someone decides to train CDO to V because of dev blog they lost the days they trained it. That is the loss.
If your using drones you got the advantage of the extra medium drone damage the whole time. If your not actually using drones why do you care and why on earth bother training it. Or do people just collect SP for the sake of it ?
meh ... CCP may well reimburse and if they do fine. Free SP is good SP as you can allocate to skills that kinda suck on your current remap and get 8 days for 7 days. However whining on forums and throwing tantrums is if anything going to make it LESS likely,
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Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
5
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Posted - 2014.05.14 23:50:00 -
[245] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Tippia wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:I guess I'm missing something here. Probably the word GÇ£trainingGÇ¥ in GÇ£training advantageGÇ¥. To get the same advantages as you have now, people will in the future have to train for longer. Quote:Performance wise they will either remain the same or gain. Yes, but the training required to get that performance will increase, and so will the gaps between the different stages of having the skills trained. Maybe I misunderstood the nature of James' complaint then. I took it to mean that what he was losing was the performance difference he trained for, rather than the training time change. Edit: Actually, he's losing in training advantage as you describe it to anyone who trained SDO V but CDO to anything less than V. If someone decides to train CDO to V because of dev blog they lost the days they trained it. That is the loss.
Yes, it is the loss. And it should be reimbursed. What if you trained it a week *before* the dev blog? I can't see any reason that it should *not* be reimbursed.
Tippia has said repeatedly that people should be happy because they are still "gaining" relative to future new players. That may be, but it doesn't change the fact that players may have wasted and therefore "lost" training time relative to *themselves*, and that is what this thread was about.
I would also argue that it's unfair for newer players to even be at a disadvantage, since there are much better ways to implement skill changes that do not do this (I recently created a thread in F&ID about this). |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1157
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 23:51:00 -
[246] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Walter Hart White wrote:If someone decides to train CDO to V because of dev blog they lost the days they trained it. That is the loss. If your using drones you got the advantage of the extra medium drone damage the whole time. If your not actually using drones why do you care and why on earth bother training it. Or do people just collect SP for the sake of it ? meh ... CCP may well reimburse and if they do fine. Free SP is good SP as you can allocate to skills that kinda suck on your current remap and get 8 days for 7 days. However whining on forums and throwing tantrums is if anything going to make it LESS likely, Considering were talking about 2 months, as we're only addressing those who trained it based on the blog, were it not something I'd already had for a considerable amount of time and I knew the final resolution that was decided upon there is no way I'd train CDO beyond whatever level I had it. Using 7 days to get 5% for 2 months seems like a horrible return on time investment compared to just about anything else I could train that isn't going to be handed to me. |
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 23:55:00 -
[247] - Quote
I can understand the complaint here. In prior skill changes, CCP has given a massive SP advantage to older players (say, those with Command Ships trained) at the expense of both existing new players (without Battlecruisers V or Command Ships) and hypothetical future new players. This change only gives old players (SDO V + CDO V) an advantage over the unborn future new players, not the existing new-ish players (SDO V + CDO less than V). That is clearly inconsistent and unfair.
The obvious solution is to reward everyone who trained both skills to V with Combat Drone Operation - Elite trade items. Or possibly a Civilian Hobgoblin. |
Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
398
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 00:04:00 -
[248] - Quote
Just a quick question here. Based on Tippia's chart, it looks like if I get Scout Drone Operation to V before the change, I will be rewarded with 3 skills at level V. Is that correct? Or is there something else I need to do to get max advantage from this change? Train Scout Drone Operation to V. Now. Or before June 3.
This public service announcement was brought to you by tears. Rivers and lakes of tears wept by people who were too busy griping about the changes to bother using them to their advantage. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1158
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 00:06:00 -
[249] - Quote
Glathull wrote:Just a quick question here. Based on Tippia's chart, it looks like if I get Scout Drone Operation to V before the change, I will be rewarded with 3 skills at level V. Is that correct? Or is there something else I need to do to get max advantage from this change? SDO V is all you need to capitalize on the changes. |
Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
398
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 00:09:00 -
[250] - Quote
Cool. Thanks. I've been needing to update my sig for a while anyway. Train Scout Drone Operation to V. Now. Or before June 3.
This public service announcement was brought to you by tears. Rivers and lakes of tears wept by people who were too busy griping about the changes to bother using them to their advantage. |
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Zachary Taylor
Yoyodyne corporation Shadow Cartel
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 04:23:00 -
[251] - Quote
Just reimburse the Skill Points and give everyone 2 remaps. Problem solved. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1337
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 04:38:00 -
[252] - Quote
beakerax wrote:I can understand the complaint here. In prior skill changes, CCP has given a massive SP advantage to older players (say, those with Command Ships trained) at the expense of both existing new players (without Battlecruisers V or Command Ships) and hypothetical future new players. This change only gives old players (SDO V + CDO V) an advantage over the unborn future new players, not the existing new-ish players (SDO V + CDO less than V). That is clearly inconsistent and unfair.
The obvious solution is to reward everyone who trained both skills to V with Combat Drone Operation - Elite trade items. Or possibly a Civilian Hobgoblin. Uh, Command Ships didn't give people an SP advantage. It's actually faster for a new player to train to CS than it was before. And the pre-skills are useful in any ship when a squad commander now. At least know what you are talking about when you complain about things. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1159
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 04:47:00 -
[253] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:beakerax wrote:I can understand the complaint here. In prior skill changes, CCP has given a massive SP advantage to older players (say, those with Command Ships trained) at the expense of both existing new players (without Battlecruisers V or Command Ships) and hypothetical future new players. This change only gives old players (SDO V + CDO V) an advantage over the unborn future new players, not the existing new-ish players (SDO V + CDO less than V). That is clearly inconsistent and unfair.
The obvious solution is to reward everyone who trained both skills to V with Combat Drone Operation - Elite trade items. Or possibly a Civilian Hobgoblin. Uh, Command Ships didn't give people an SP advantage. It's actually faster for a new player to train to CS than it was before. And the pre-skills are useful in any ship when a squad commander now. At least know what you are talking about when you complain about things. Vertical progression also got slightly shorter despite adding Destroyers and BC skills if I recall correctly. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
751
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 05:00:00 -
[254] - Quote
I have a new proposal.
Compensate people for CDO.
But also compensate people the same amount who did not train CDO.
This is only fair as the people that trained CDO will have had the use of it for some time effectively for free, meaning the people who read the blog properly and did not train CDO will be disadvantaged unless they also get compensated. |
Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 05:44:00 -
[255] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:I have a new proposal.
Compensate people for CDO.
But also compensate people the same amount who did not train CDO.
This is only fair as the people that trained CDO will have had the use of it for some time effectively for free, meaning the people who read the blog properly and did not train CDO will be disadvantaged unless they also get compensated.
They did not have "the use of it" for free. They could have trained something else in its place, so training it was at the cost of some other skill. Those people, and only those people, should be compensated, since no one else (besides future new players) is at a disadvantage due to the changes.
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Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1923
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:05:00 -
[256] - Quote
Let's be completely fair and make each character gaining SP from this change take a forced training break proportionally to the SP they gained.
SDO V but no CDO trained? You'll get the three skills at V as before, but your character can't train for as long as it'd take to train up the light and medium drone skills from the start.
SDO V and CDO V? You'll get the three skills at V as before, but your character can't train for as long as it'd take to train the difference in SP between CDO V and the two new skills at V.
No drone skills at all? Nothing happens.
That way nobody will lose the ability to use things they could use before, but the SP "injection" is just a credit you repay in the following days by not training. This way it's fair for everyone, even those who start training only after the change!
Everybody happy. :D |
Dave Stark
5628
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:09:00 -
[257] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Let's be completely fair and make each character gaining SP from this change take a forced training break proportionally to the SP they gained.
no, i intentionally don't want to train CDO to V because it's not worth the time for me. i don't want to have my training paused because i didn't train a skill i didn't want prior to a change i didn't ask for. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
893
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:09:00 -
[258] - Quote
Just reset all my SP please, so I can train out of this ****** industry stuff I got duped into when I started.
thx bye. |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1923
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:17:00 -
[259] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Let's be completely fair and make each character gaining SP from this change take a forced training break proportionally to the SP they gained. no, i intentionally don't want to train CDO to V because it's not worth the time for me. i don't want to have my training paused because i didn't train a skill i didn't want prior to a change i didn't ask for.
But surely the new light and medium drone skills will be worth it for you at V, since otherwise you won't be able to use T2 light and mediums! |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
751
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:21:00 -
[260] - Quote
Of course the SENSIBLE option would have been:
Avionics = SDO current level LDO = SDO current level
MDO = CDO current level
No lost SP, no need for reimbursement.
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Dave Stark
5628
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:23:00 -
[261] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Let's be completely fair and make each character gaining SP from this change take a forced training break proportionally to the SP they gained. no, i intentionally don't want to train CDO to V because it's not worth the time for me. i don't want to have my training paused because i didn't train a skill i didn't want prior to a change i didn't ask for. But surely the new light and medium drone skills will be worth it for you at V, since otherwise you won't be able to use T2 light and mediums!
i could use them anyway. |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1923
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:23:00 -
[262] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Of course the SENSIBLE option would have been:
Avionics = SDO current level LDO = SDO current level
MDO = CDO current level
No lost SP, no need for reimbursement.
Then, with SDO trained to V and CDO not trained you would be able to use T2 light and medium drones before the change, but only T2 light and T1 medium after the change. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
751
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:30:00 -
[263] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Of course the SENSIBLE option would have been:
Avionics = SDO current level LDO = SDO current level
MDO = CDO current level
No lost SP, no need for reimbursement.
Then, with SDO trained to V and CDO not trained you would be able to use T2 light and medium drones before the change, but only T2 light and T1 medium after the change.
But you are only losing access to a variant not a drone type.
Main thing is it will shutup all the SP whiners :D |
Dave Stark
5629
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:40:00 -
[264] - Quote
know what'd actually shut people up?
if they took time to actually read all of the devblogs/dev posts on the subject before whining. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9855
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:42:00 -
[265] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:know what'd actually shut people up?
if they took time to actually read all of the devblogs/dev posts on the subject before whining. That doesn't seem to have worked for you. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Mag's
the united
17228
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:45:00 -
[266] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:know what'd actually shut people up?
if they took time to actually read all of the devblogs/dev posts on the subject before whining. This.
These Dev blog/posts are made long enough before a change to see and understand them first. If you jumped headlong into some training before understanding the change, then that's your fault.
We do get to laugh at you, so it's still good.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3218
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:50:00 -
[267] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Dave Stark wrote:know what'd actually shut people up?
if they took time to actually read all of the devblogs/dev posts on the subject before whining. This. These Dev blog/posts are made long enough before a change to see and understand them first. If you jumped headlong into some training before understanding the change, then that's your fault. We do get to laugh at you, so it's still good. not many people read devposts and the blog should've been updated with the more correct information
although. noone should be reimbursed because they're recieving the full benefit of combat drone operation in the meantime and patch speculation for advantage has always been wobbly |
Dave Stark
5629
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:53:00 -
[268] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dave Stark wrote:know what'd actually shut people up?
if they took time to actually read all of the devblogs/dev posts on the subject before whining. That doesn't seem to have worked for you.
considering i haven't whined once, and i fully understand the changes. it worked fine.
also, stop being so pathetic trying to score some kind of point. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9856
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 07:03:00 -
[269] - Quote
Scoring points? No, just antagonizing you. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Mag's
the united
17228
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 07:07:00 -
[270] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Mag's wrote:Dave Stark wrote:know what'd actually shut people up?
if they took time to actually read all of the devblogs/dev posts on the subject before whining. This. These Dev blog/posts are made long enough before a change to see and understand them first. If you jumped headlong into some training before understanding the change, then that's your fault. We do get to laugh at you, so it's still good. not many people read devposts and the blog should've been updated with the more correct information although. noone should be reimbursed because they're recieving the full benefit of combat drone operation in the meantime and patch speculation for advantage has always been wobbly If people didn't or don't read blogs, that again is their issue. I just think it's rather funny to complain, if you ran at it without first understanding it.
The blog was clear enough and the whole point of the comments section, is to clarify it for those who cannot see the wood for the trees.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
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