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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
697
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Posted - 2014.04.30 14:11:00 -
[481] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:This is the real reason why.
Bloobs are using Archon fleets. Lets assume that r64 moon is owned right now by a bloob. Let it be close, very close to staging point , only 1 midpoint , around 30 LY so all carriers at lvl V calibration can jump.
Currently amarr isotopes is expensive , but it will be more so lets assume 1.5k per isotope.
Lets think about smaller fleet just 100 archons that have to make this trip. This will give us 20,500 isotopes in only one way after this change - so this will be around 4.100.000 isotopes for this whole fleet to be moved in both directions.
Simple math : 4.100.000 * 1.500 = 6.150.000.000 per trip to save one r64 tower.
This is way more than this tower will earn you in month , and locals can ref it again day after.
This is what all big blobs are terrified that all their income will be consumed by fuel costs.
If this change will be connected to direct pos jump bridge changes , and increase in cost of titan bridges then all smaller alliances , lowsec people will be able to take poses that are in area where they are living.
Big coalitions will have rethink what is realy worth to defend - when they spend 8bil a month to defend pos that will give them 2-3bil of income per month.
LOL, you really have no idea, do you ? |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
109
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Posted - 2014.04.30 14:33:00 -
[482] - Quote
Rommiee wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:This is the real reason why.
Bloobs are using Archon fleets. Lets assume that r64 moon is owned right now by a bloob. Let it be close, very close to staging point , only 1 midpoint , around 30 LY so all carriers at lvl V calibration can jump.
Currently amarr isotopes is expensive , but it will be more so lets assume 1.5k per isotope.
Lets think about smaller fleet just 100 archons that have to make this trip. This will give us 20,500 isotopes in only one way after this change - so this will be around 4.100.000 isotopes for this whole fleet to be moved in both directions.
Simple math : 4.100.000 * 1.500 = 6.150.000.000 per trip to save one r64 tower.
This is way more than this tower will earn you in month , and locals can ref it again day after.
This is what all big blobs are terrified that all their income will be consumed by fuel costs.
If this change will be connected to direct pos jump bridge changes , and increase in cost of titan bridges then all smaller alliances , lowsec people will be able to take poses that are in area where they are living.
Big coalitions will have rethink what is realy worth to defend - when they spend 8bil a month to defend pos that will give them 2-3bil of income per month. LOL, you really have no idea, do you ?
no, he's just upset that someone took his moon |
boernl
Finis Coronat Opus Brothers of Tangra
25
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Posted - 2014.04.30 14:40:00 -
[483] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:How to block good change? Ask/Force your renter hordes to post a negative comment : http://eveskunk.com/e/338387548Maybe it is time to reduce rent for those who posted here , like in CSM elections for proper voting.
i didnt post because they sendet that mail out
i post because the arseholes of ccp keep ******* up the fun in the game of the nulsec indies
what will happen now is that the prices dont go up a little but massivle
that means that the smaller corps can no longer maintain theyr few posses / capitals
thank you ccp *******
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Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
392
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Posted - 2014.04.30 15:20:00 -
[484] - Quote
I dont have or want to have a pos. Yes smaller aliances also will be affected , but i proposed a bit ealier that ronquals and JF should be excluded from this change. At the same time i suggested that supercapitals should burn way more than 50% MORE fuel.
Normal player don't deploy 60LY away every day to save something - big bloobs have to. Summer 2014 - Jump Bridge Changes |
Zoldarion Katelo
Void.Tech Get Off My Lawn
18
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Posted - 2014.04.30 15:36:00 -
[485] - Quote
I dont really get this change at all. It really just seems like a 'stick it to the little guy' change. 0.0 items will all go up in price, that is a given. With regards force projection of the large alliances i think line members will see 0 change, the higher ups will change whatever sums they need to to cover the increased cost and alliances will still provide fuel for cap operations. The smaller alliances' pilots that do no provide fuel for their cap pilots will feel a real pinch as less pilots will report for duty. |
Axe Coldon
Coldon Enterprises Axion Bionics
25
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Posted - 2014.04.30 15:38:00 -
[486] - Quote
Antoine Jordan wrote:Are you doing anything for carriers, who often carry a large part of their fuel in their corporate hangar, or is it intended that they won't be able to go as far without refueling after this change?
Way I read it the volume of the isotopes gets smaller. so you will be able to hold more in your various cargo holds. |
Alyssa Haginen
State War Academy Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2014.04.30 15:42:00 -
[487] - Quote
What it means is every jump drive ship will lose 16% fuel capacity. If your total range is 10ly right now it will be 8.4ly after the update. This is just dumb because ccp has and keeps downgrading income in all forms in the game too. When a player feels they would need to invest more time and money then they have available they are less likely to keep playing. |
ctrlc ctrlv
Republic University Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2014.04.30 15:43:00 -
[488] - Quote
All the mechanics to boost and help large power blocks on the game.
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
475
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:00:00 -
[489] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:How to block good change? Ask/Force your renter hordes to post a negative comment : http://eveskunk.com/e/338387548Maybe it is time to reduce rent for those who posted here , like in CSM elections for proper voting. Nice astroturfing.
Can't blame 'em for trying, though. Fortunately, there so far does not appear to be an intelligent, non-kneejerk poster among them. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
475
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:02:00 -
[490] - Quote
Katanagari wrote:Querns wrote:Katanagari wrote:This change is a simple increase in transportation costs. It's bad for null sec, it's bad for highsec and in practice there isn't a single group of players who'll benefit from it.
People who mine topes benefit quite a bit! You can find those people across all bands of security space, except wormholers I guess. Poor wormholers. People who mine topes won't benefit at all. There are two reasons for this: 1) The reduction in isotopes usage from towers will be offset by the increase in usage for jump fuel. That's the stated objective. So there will likely be no net increase in isotope demands or a sustained increase in isotope prices. There will be some movement in racial demands as caldari research towers are removed and archon jump costs increase. That is all. You are aware that not everyone mines ice in nullsec, right? Highsec ice miners unequivocally win here.
Also, I don't have the math in front of me, but I'm pretty sure a JF does not need to consume a number of topes equal to the size of its cargohold to move topes to market. I am pretty confident that you still win, despite the increase in transportation costs. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
475
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:04:00 -
[491] - Quote
forum ate my reply :saddowns:
Rena Senn wrote:Querns wrote:I'll give all you people a hint: you are not arguing particularly well towards getting the changes reversed. Here is a list of things you probably don't want to include in your argument:
- "small alliances"
- plex
- the subscription status of your account or imminent cancellation thereof
- the "sandbox"
- a litany of other, completely unrelated concerns that simply must be solved before the sacred cow can be touched
Use of these terms cheapens your argument considerably. If you need a refresher course on how to argue for or against a change properly, feel free to peruse my posting history. I've got a pretty good track record when it comes to feedback successfully affecting the game. How well would this argument have gone down if it was posted during the summer of rage? You don't think these factors are relevant? Fine. That's for you to prove. Trying to blatantly shape the narrative by insisting anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot for even raising such concerns is only going to entrench opinions against you further. But then again maybe that's exactly what you want. This "us versus the pubbies" song and dance always plays well with the home crowd, regardless of the actual validity of other people's concerns.
The thing here is that you're not trying to convince me. You're trying to convince CCP. The factors I'm describing give your argument a whiny, entitled, kneejerk candor, and increase the risk that anyone reading it who can actually affect change writes off your comment as whiny, entitled, kneejerk filth.
To more reliably affect change, you have to contain your emotion and suggest alterations to the proposal without using threats or hyperbole. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9838
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:07:00 -
[492] - Quote
Hey everyone. For now I just wanted to drop by and make sure you know that we're not ignoring this thread, I'm reading everything.
I'll be collecting together and answering/discussing some of the points raised soon. Part of the reason I posted this before Fanfest is so that we could take advantage of all the feedback possible, but that also means that we'll be a bit slower replying to threads for the next couple days. Rest assured that we'll make it up to you next week, and we're not forgetting about this thread. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Nofearion
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC Brothers of Tangra
68
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:14:00 -
[493] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. For now I just wanted to drop by and make sure you know that we're not ignoring this thread, I'm reading everything.
I'll be collecting together and answering/discussing some of the points raised soon. Part of the reason I posted this before Fanfest is so that we could take advantage of all the feedback possible, but that also means that we'll be a bit slower replying to threads for the next couple days. Rest assured that we'll make it up to you next week, and we're not forgetting about this thread.
this is much appreciated. and it is a lot of information to scan through Hopefully you will consider expanding Jump Freighter fuel bays by 40% Thanks you for your efforts |
Demotress
The Circus Corp Intrepid Crossing
20
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:18:00 -
[494] - Quote
if you are going to do this why not also have a new skill to reduce fuel consumption like advanced jump fuel conservation and have do like 5% per level so you don't hit the market hard because too much too quick will shock the market. |
Tam Althor
lll tempered sea bass Brothers of Tangra
27
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:19:00 -
[495] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. For now I just wanted to drop by and make sure you know that we're not ignoring this thread, I'm reading everything.
I'll be collecting together and answering/discussing some of the points raised soon. Part of the reason I posted this before Fanfest is so that we could take advantage of all the feedback possible, but that also means that we'll be a bit slower replying to threads for the next couple days. Rest assured that we'll make it up to you next week, and we're not forgetting about this thread.
Can we at least get an answer to why you think there would be a drop in people using towers and needing less fuel after the summer expansion? |
Petrus Blackshell
Derelict Rifter Enterprise
3107
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:22:00 -
[496] - Quote
CCP WHY ARE YOU NERFING MY SUPER SAFE AND EASY AND CHEAP TELEPORTATION OMG GRR GOONZ
Seriously? This is a great change, and I wish they didn't reduce the volume of isotopes, either. Transportation of stuff is the biggest imbalance of risk/reward/price in Eve, almost solely attributable to the ridiculous prevalence of jump drive and jump bridge mechanics. I understand it can't be removed (yet, anyway) or some places would turn into wastelands, but really there should be more effort, risk, or money involved in transporting large amount of stuff than clicking a cyno button, then a jump button, for the price of a couple tens of millions of ISK.
All the "but my small alliance " talk is crock, too. Grow a real logistics wing. I own/fly a JF, and I have run a small corp/alliance. PLEASE NERF ME, CCP. For the good of the game. Rifterlings - newbie-friendly swashbuckling corp ("weflyrifters" in-game channel). Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Gabriel Z
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
30
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:25:00 -
[497] - Quote
I just learned about Malcanis' Law. It is totally appropriate for this issue and the issues related to to it. I'm reposting it for those who, like me, hadn't heard of it before.
Malcanis' Law
"Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of GÇÿnew playersGÇÖ, that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."
Though I propose a slight update:
"Whenever a mechanics change is proposed, that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players." |
Z air
The Circus Corp Intrepid Crossing
1
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:39:00 -
[498] - Quote
Alternative Suggestion to adjusting the STAT's of everything.
What if, instead of Adjusting this, and that, to make it all work, why not just make a blue print for Jump Fuel.
This is going to be an Industrial Expansion after all.
If you put into play, a Jump Drive Fuel Block, much like Fuel Blocks for POS's
You can then tweak the amount of materials required to make each fuel block, as opposed to trying to change the stats on the ships each time you need to tweak something.
Heck, you could even go as far as to having Ship Type fuel in addition to Racial Type, and thus introduce some new element to the gameplay
For example
Sub Cap Jump Fuel (Each Racial Fuel Block tweaked for use in Black ops Ships)
Normal Cap Jump Fuel (Each racial Jump Fuel Block for Regular Capitals)
Industrial Cap Jump Fuel (For the likes of Jump Frieghters and Rorquals)
Super Cap Jump Fuel (Each Racial Jump Fuel Block)
This could then allow an interesting dynamic to form, could limit the use of your opponents fleets and what they field.
Additionally, it allows you to tweak the material requirements for each type of capital , without affecting all the others with one brush.
As an extra element, you could make cross racial fuel bpo's that allow you to use isotopes from another racial fuel type, to produce the same type of fuel block, but at much greater material cost.
Much like how Alchemy is for the Moon Goo |
Resgo
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
41
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:43:00 -
[499] - Quote
Fozzie, If the goal of this is really to stimulate more sales of topes, why not decrease the volume of the isotopes by 50 percent rather than 33 percent and make a similar change to the volume of fuel blocks. I can guarantee that if you do that POSes will want to go to max fuel increasing the number of days between refueling and capitals will all be trying to keep a full fuel tank. The POS consumption rate would stay the same but there would be a sales bump for each new POS setup and each new cap sold. I suspect those fueling large POS farms would really appreciate having to do it less often. |
Demotress
The Circus Corp Intrepid Crossing
20
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:51:00 -
[500] - Quote
Z air wrote:Alternative Suggestion to adjusting the STAT's of everything.
What if, instead of Adjusting this, and that, to make it all work, why not just make a blue print for Jump Fuel.
This is going to be an Industrial Expansion after all.
If you put into play, a Jump Drive Fuel Block, much like Fuel Blocks for POS's
You can then tweak the amount of materials required to make each fuel block, as opposed to trying to change the stats on the ships each time you need to tweak something.
Heck, you could even go as far as to having Ship Type fuel in addition to Racial Type, and thus introduce some new element to the gameplay
For example
Sub Cap Jump Fuel (Each Racial Fuel Block tweaked for use in Black ops Ships)
Normal Cap Jump Fuel (Each racial Jump Fuel Block for Regular Capitals)
Industrial Cap Jump Fuel (For the likes of Jump Frieghters and Rorquals)
Super Cap Jump Fuel (Each Racial Jump Fuel Block)
This could then allow an interesting dynamic to form, could limit the use of your opponents fleets and what they field.
Additionally, it allows you to tweak the material requirements for each type of capital , without affecting all the others with one brush.
As an extra element, you could make cross racial fuel bpo's that allow you to use isotopes from another racial fuel type, to produce the same type of fuel block, but at much greater material cost.
Much like how Alchemy is for the Moon Goo
with that for an idea you could have it require something like moon goo or a certain gas for super/titan fuel. |
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1305
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:51:00 -
[501] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. For now I just wanted to drop by and make sure you know that we're not ignoring this thread, I'm reading everything.
I'll be collecting together and answering/discussing some of the points raised soon. Part of the reason I posted this before Fanfest is so that we could take advantage of all the feedback possible, but that also means that we'll be a bit slower replying to threads for the next couple days. Rest assured that we'll make it up to you next week, and we're not forgetting about this thread.
Thank you for the update. Keep doing a good job. The Tears Must Flow |
Z air
The Circus Corp Intrepid Crossing
1
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:51:00 -
[502] - Quote
Just to add an extra idea to the fray,
For things like the Super Fuel Blocks, the materials list, could require things only available in null sec,
Ie Morphite Additives
Make Morphite Relevant again |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
212
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Posted - 2014.04.30 16:55:00 -
[503] - Quote
Z air wrote:
For example
Sub Cap Jump Fuel (Each Racial Fuel Block tweaked for use in Black ops Ships)
Normal Cap Jump Fuel (Each racial Jump Fuel Block for Regular Capitals)
Industrial Cap Jump Fuel (For the likes of Jump Frieghters and Rorquals)
Super Cap Jump Fuel (Each Racial Jump Fuel Block)
The reason why fuel blocks were introduced were to make life easier....not harder like you are trying to suggest. You are taking currently 4 versions of fuel, and creating 13. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
476
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 16:59:00 -
[504] - Quote
Hopelesshobo wrote:Z air wrote:
For example
Sub Cap Jump Fuel (Each Racial Fuel Block tweaked for use in Black ops Ships)
Normal Cap Jump Fuel (Each racial Jump Fuel Block for Regular Capitals)
Industrial Cap Jump Fuel (For the likes of Jump Frieghters and Rorquals)
Super Cap Jump Fuel (Each Racial Jump Fuel Block)
The reason why fuel blocks were introduced were to make life easier....not harder like you are trying to suggest. You are taking currently 4 versions of fuel, and creating 13. This is correct.
POS Fuel blocks make sense because the old way of fueling POS required you to balance several different types of materiel. Adding an intermediate step simplified matters. You can't simplify jump fuel any more than it is; it is only one item. Parting it out into 13 different parts adds nothing. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Z air
The Circus Corp Intrepid Crossing
1
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:00:00 -
[505] - Quote
Hopelesshobo wrote:Z air wrote:
For example
Sub Cap Jump Fuel (Each Racial Fuel Block tweaked for use in Black ops Ships)
Normal Cap Jump Fuel (Each racial Jump Fuel Block for Regular Capitals)
Industrial Cap Jump Fuel (For the likes of Jump Frieghters and Rorquals)
Super Cap Jump Fuel (Each Racial Jump Fuel Block)
The reason why fuel blocks were introduced were to make life easier....not harder like you are trying to suggest. You are taking currently 4 versions of fuel, and creating 13.
Yes, you are correct, those fuel blocks made operating pos's a lot less daunting, and we all benefited.
But im tired of seeing stuff nerfed and changed, by simply changing the stats of things
Why not change the dynamic, by adding something to the game, an extra element
Allows ccp to focus on force projection, without nerfing other parts in the process.
Unbinds them from hitting super projection hard for example, and let Jump Freighters do their good work. without suffering the Super Nerf Penalty
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Colklari
The Circus Corp Intrepid Crossing
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:04:00 -
[506] - Quote
Z air wrote:Alternative Suggestion to adjusting the STAT's of everything.
What if, instead of Adjusting this, and that, to make it all work, why not just make a blue print for Jump Fuel.
This is going to be an Industrial Expansion after all.
If you put into play, a Jump Drive Fuel Block, much like Fuel Blocks for POS's
You can then tweak the amount of materials required to make each fuel block, as opposed to trying to change the stats on the ships each time you need to tweak something.
Heck, you could even go as far as to having Ship Type fuel in addition to Racial Type, and thus introduce some new element to the gameplay
For example
Sub Cap Jump Fuel (Each Racial Fuel Block tweaked for use in Black ops Ships)
Normal Cap Jump Fuel (Each racial Jump Fuel Block for Regular Capitals)
Industrial Cap Jump Fuel (For the likes of Jump Frieghters and Rorquals)
Super Cap Jump Fuel (Each Racial Jump Fuel Block)
This could then allow an interesting dynamic to form, could limit the use of your opponents fleets and what they field.
Additionally, it allows you to tweak the material requirements for each type of capital , without affecting all the others with one brush.
As an extra element, you could make cross racial fuel bpo's that allow you to use isotopes from another racial fuel type, to produce the same type of fuel block, but at much greater material cost.
Much like how Alchemy is for the Moon Goo
Perhaps it can work like this:
Jump Freighter/Rorqual: Industrial Fuel made of Racial Ice Products and underutilized common Gas products
Carrier/Dreadnaught/SuperCarrier: Tactical Fuel made of Racial Ice products and underutilized uncommon Gas Products
Titan/BlackOps: Strategic Fuel made of Racial Ice products, Underutilized uncommon Gas products, and underutilized PI products (Wishlist item: incorporate biomass into this type)
Industrial fuel is the most basic, and is used for both jumping and fueling rorqual Industrial core (one fuel bay, woot!)
Tactical Fuel is simple to make, but can only be used for Jump Drives.
Strategic Fuel can be used for both Jump Drives and Jump Bridging (One fuel bay woot!)
Modifications to material requirements for the fuel blocks can be made without affecting ship stats. |
boernl
Finis Coronat Opus Brothers of Tangra
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 17:08:00 -
[507] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone. For now I just wanted to drop by and make sure you know that we're not ignoring this thread, I'm reading everything.
I'll be collecting together and answering/discussing some of the points raised soon. Part of the reason I posted this before Fanfest is so that we could take advantage of all the feedback possible, but that also means that we'll be a bit slower replying to threads for the next couple days. Rest assured that we'll make it up to you next week, and we're not forgetting about this thread.
ive said something similar when the medium size long range weapons got nerved
GO DO SOMETHING USEFULL YOU LAZY BUNCH OF SLACKERS
so many annoying bugs some are known for years fix hose before planting more of these ******* changes in the game most ppl the ppl dont ask for
why are the posses still bugged as hell why cant mobile labs be set public ( the option is there it only does not work )
why do after 1 of the next big patches labs have to be out of the pos is only a freaking bullseye
ANDS WHO THE **** EXCEPT CCP WANTS THE COST OF ICE PRODUCTS TO GO UP
go do soemthing usefull and start bug hunting
stop implanting things in the game till the game is ******* bug free enough that what is in the game actualy works |
Suzuka A1
Multiplex Gaming Li3 Federation
15
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Posted - 2014.04.30 17:10:00 -
[508] - Quote
The forum f***ed up my comment, I am re-typing everything. aka placeholder. Never forget the battle of Z9PP-H-á What actually happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcUwTmHY74 Battle Report: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?42836-They-Might-Be-Giants-The-Southwest&p=497626&viewfull=1#post497626 |
Z air
The Circus Corp Intrepid Crossing
1
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Posted - 2014.04.30 17:12:00 -
[509] - Quote
Whilst we have the focus on Fuel For Jump Drives, and Industry as this summer's patch
What about instead, make an alchemy type reaction, that very ineffeciently turns one isotope into another, with the addition of null sec materials like morphite.
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addelee
Hellfire Cult The East India Co.
85
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Posted - 2014.04.30 17:14:00 -
[510] - Quote
Seems odd that there's been mention of "Help encourage cost competitiveness for local resource gathering in nullsec."
CCP deliberately create bottlenecks on manufacturing and ice anyway by always missing one vital build resource (or ice) per region. To seriously manufacture in null, you need to come to highsec. And now this change will raise the cost and very little benefit.
It's meant to be a PvP game and if the cost of going to war increases (which this change will effect) wars will be smaller and less frequent.
I just don't really understand why this change is even needed... |
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