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Drachenlord
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Posted - 2006.05.17 06:25:00 -
[61]
If People truly want to work this out and come to a Settlement.... I can be an impartial moderator along with Vlasic at a round table Discussion and work this out.
Also, Yes, some of you may notice that I used the word Settlement.... Reason I say this, is once we get down to brass tacks, Niether side will leave the table 100% happy with the outcome... that is after all the meaning of the word Settlement.. its a compromise, meaning, niether side is going to get it their way.
I'll keep an eye on this thread, if the leaders of involved parties truly want to come and restore peace in deklein, please post here or evemail me in game.
Also, as an aside, please, AUS corp, if you're going to be leaving NFC and living elsewhere, turn over executorship of NFC and move on, lingering about may only further the problems.
(see, I can be diplomatic.... not that I enjoy it) -------------------------------------------------
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Drachenlord
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Posted - 2006.05.17 06:26:00 -
[62]
Also, I know Vlasic will see this, yes, you volunteered it on the other thread and I'm enlisting your assistance in this matter.
Thanks in advance bud.
-Drach
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Cecille
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Posted - 2006.05.17 08:33:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Emno
Originally by: Hestia III
Originally by: thedragoon
Originally by: Cockroach DOFA, Alektrophobia
Just a note that DOFA is part of alektrophobia. :@
Actually you get to start correcting people when you actually have an alliance till then... DOFA is part of no alliance.
So your saying alliances like curse, stain etc only existed after shiva as there were no IGAs before then?
I'm sorry was there an ingame mechanism to have them all be in an alliance when they existed like ther is today.... nope... Once there was there was a stain -allaince
So LOL right back at ya...
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NereSky
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Posted - 2006.05.17 08:53:00 -
[64]
As for ROA, they claim themselves openly that they are under contract for NFC. Hired mercs to cause "trouble" really wound up translating into terrorist acts on innocent true noob members of FLA in "safe space", and I wouldn't be suprised ~if~ those acts put the extra fuel on the fire for an otherwise peaceful FLA.
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Tibicen Aurelius
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Posted - 2006.05.17 09:20:00 -
[65]
Originally by: ognog Pvping, mining and wars etc are part of the game and to suggest 'we become friends and stop all this fighting' is ludicrous within the sense of the game. Personally I feel no hatred towards any character, alliance or corp with whom I have to fight or work with and I would stop playing if I did. The reason for playing this or any other game is to try and win and if you believe otherwise - get a life.
Undoubtedly there are several schools of thought as to "the reason for playing this ... game". One, the simplest one, is to "try and win", which in this case obviously means "to defeat your enemies in a encounter in space".
But, as the surprisingly untiring negotiators of both NFC and FLA keep talking this case over shows, no matter what concrete results we have reached so far, there is great will towards "winning" from this situation mutually. There is such a thing as "win-win" situation, where both sides are better off together than separately, even though the simple human mind gets easily distracted from this fact and assumes victory if they just simply get more out of the situation than the other party involved.
What the ultimate win-situation would be in Deklein, in my opinion, would be a stable and open region where the intended new NFC - including FLA as a part of it - could prosper and seek their goals without quarreling about who did what couple of months ago.
A essential structural change needed for any such a large alliance to work, is a open justice board and law enforcement system, where any issues could be brought for open discussion by the selected council to decide for a solution. If only those petty issues ("15% refining tax", "Intense refining array","locked out of a station") would have been discussed over on a justice board, everyone [interested enough in reading it] would have known what was going on and why.
I consider peace as the ultimate victory. I consider games as the ultimate social experiment for constructing social systems. Maybe I'm just too hopeful, but I'd like to see Utopia in Deklein. [Thomas More, Utopia, 1516, London]
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lordus
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:01:00 -
[66]
Hahaha the whole involvement of the Burn Eden pirates in this is funny as hell, you have finaly found the victim in FLA to get your foothold in this, and stir **** up and get your 15 minutes of fame
Oh wait 3JN would be a perfect staging area to stir up **** some more.
Your being controled by pirates FLA. Just for that reason alone you all deserve to Die.
Yea I was all for FLA, but inviting BE in and run the show for you.
LOL
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Clansman
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:26:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Clansman on 17/05/2006 11:26:14 I have the impression from reading these forums and chatting to NFC combatants that there is a huge gulf between the opinion of the NFC members and that of their leadership.
I was wondering if the NFC leadership have spoken to their members or their senatorial representatives about this peace offer. If it is truly the will of the NFC members that they want revenge and cannot be reigned then the war can continue and we can get on with our war operations without bothering to make any more peace overtures until you ask to talk again. On the other hand, if you want a fair peace now then make sure your leadership is aware. They do, I presume, represent your wishes after all .
Of course, a third scenario is that an members who dissent against your leadership's pro-war stance are being told to shut up or get out of the NFC. That would be shame and more than a little arrogant but I suppose it's possible. If this is the case I'm sure a place could be found for you within the FLA where we have no such restrictions.
These are my personal views and do not constitute official FLA policies or opinions.
CM
Lofdaedum sceal in maegpa gehwaere man gepeon |
Jake Ironskin
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Posted - 2006.05.17 12:28:00 -
[68]
*****altastic*****
I've never run a station, explain to me how you can let everyone dock and I'll run it! everyone happy!
*****n00btastic*****
I know it will be at least 3 months to find out how I can prevent people from docking so no worries
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Zimi Vlasic
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Posted - 2006.05.17 12:42:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Clansman
Of course, a third scenario is that an members who dissent against your leadership's pro-war stance are being told to shut up or get out of the NFC. That would be shame and more than a little arrogant but I suppose it's possible. If this is the case I'm sure a place could be found for you within the FLA where we have no such restrictions.
This would go against their name right?
I mean, Northern Freedom Coalition
apparently in Deklein, the Freedom has YOU.
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Drachenlord
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Posted - 2006.05.17 15:43:00 -
[70]
Everyone know what? This isn't going to end without one or two impartial moderators at the negotiation table to hear both sides and present a Settlement that both sides can agree to....
And by settlement, I of course mean "Something that leaves both sides somewhat unhappy with the end result" you guys can't both have it your way without compromise....
Vlasic, you up for trying to get some sort of meeting between them? if you're willing, you and I can work together on getting them to stop the childish slapfight that this war has become. -------------------------------------------------
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MrCue
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Posted - 2006.05.17 16:02:00 -
[71]
I think you will find that this is going to end with NFC being crushed due to their repeated refusal to negotiate any kind of peace with FLA.
With D2 saying they will remain neutral, NFC's backbone is now missing. as long as NFC believed that D2 would come and bail them out they had no reason to negotiate a peace treaty, with that support now removed NFC either need to start talking peace which doesnt involve FLA packing up and going to empire or prepare to be removed from dek so a more reasonable alliance can be installed.
Killmail Database |
Death Merchant
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Posted - 2006.05.17 16:32:00 -
[72]
Geez...Sounds like a great big Charlie Foxtrot up there...
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Sypher313
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Posted - 2006.05.17 16:47:00 -
[73]
Yeah VNTR offers up Drachenlord as mediator to "teh process" if ya'll want to take that route.
Now the question is will it be Binding Arbitration or just Arbitration?
Help if ya can Drach.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Zimi Vlasic
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Posted - 2006.05.17 16:55:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Zimi Vlasic on 17/05/2006 16:58:26
Originally by: Drachenlord Everyone know what? This isn't going to end without one or two impartial moderators at the negotiation table to hear both sides and present a Settlement that both sides can agree to....
And by settlement, I of course mean "Something that leaves both sides somewhat unhappy with the end result" you guys can't both have it your way without compromise....
Vlasic, you up for trying to get some sort of meeting between them? if you're willing, you and I can work together on getting them to stop the childish slapfight that this war has become.
Oh yeah I'm game
I'll hop on venture TS sometime tonight so we can figure out how to do this.
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Zimi Vlasic
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Posted - 2006.05.17 17:01:00 -
[75]
Originally by: MrCue I think you will find that this is going to end with NFC being crushed due to their repeated refusal to negotiate any kind of peace with FLA.
With D2 saying they will remain neutral, NFC's backbone is now missing. as long as NFC believed that D2 would come and bail them out they had no reason to negotiate a peace treaty, with that support now removed NFC either need to start talking peace which doesnt involve FLA packing up and going to empire or prepare to be removed from dek so a more reasonable alliance can be installed.
At this point I don't care who rules Dek TBH, as long as they're reasonable people willing to talk quietly while carrying a big stick.
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MrCue
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Posted - 2006.05.17 17:16:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Zimi Vlasic
At this point I don't care who rules Dek TBH, as long as they're reasonable people willing to talk quietly while carrying a big stick.
See my other post, NFC are not reasonable and as for the big stick? Who just lost a station due to lack of defence?
Killmail Database |
Why'dyou HitMe
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Posted - 2006.05.17 17:53:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Eta Carinea
Originally by: Ap0x THE NFC leaders dont want peace i guess
do the corps that from the nfc want peace ?
do u guys really think what your leaders are doing is right
i would like to here what the individual corps have to say
when this started i bet they told u all dont worry 1 week and fla will be gone
Yes i want peace but not at the cost of 3jn. Period
Yes i think the NFC leadership is doing the right thing. However, i do believe that we could have handled this situation so that FLA did not get thier hands on 3jn. However, i accept this is an opinion and players more experienced than me could have a valid view point that differs from my own.
Nope don't ever recall anyone saying this would be over in a week. This subtracts nothing from FLA and Burn Eden whoms sheer tanacity and good pvp skills have been an eyeopener as well as very educational for me at least.
This is the view of myself only not of NFC or my corp.. Eta
Why not youve let the people that started this mess keep "their" stations againts what WAS agreed upon in the NFC when it still had a brain. Now all I see up north is blind chest beating. WHEN will NFC wake up and ask questions to their so called leaders and to AUS and SPARTA.... WTS - CLUE FLA seems to be mostly in the right here except ganging with Stab Eden that is.
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Why'dyou HitMe
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Posted - 2006.05.17 17:58:00 -
[78]
Originally by: SATAN
Originally by: Zimi Vlasic So the main sticking point is control of the 3JN station?
FLA wants ownership to 3JN for 3 months (that's until August) and after such time will relinquish control of the station to NFC.
It's my understanding that this is to make sure FLA doesn't get stabbed in the back and locked out of all stations after a peace deal has been made.
This really sounds more than reasonable to me. If FLA goes back on their end of the deal then resume combat. Spend 3 months building up forces in preparation of the handover. That's more than enough time for both sides to make sure the other hold up their end.
At this point its not even about that.
NFC/Sparta and friends want one thing and one thing only FLA out of that region. All their meetings with FLA to this point have started off with we want 3jn and FLA to move out.
That does NOT sound like a reasonable request. Does anyone think it is?
Damn it I agree with something a BE pilot said
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Drachenlord
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Posted - 2006.05.17 18:14:00 -
[79]
Why do you people get hung up on station control? its a pain in the hindquarters to manage a station, there is a REASON that VentureCorp never wanted 3jn back from AUS Corp when they took it back for IRON in the BoB invasion.
If FLA want 3jn, just give it to them, its not like anyone truly uses the damn station to the extent that the other three are used. -------------------------------------------------
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Murukan
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Posted - 2006.05.17 18:53:00 -
[80]
what is funny is how AUS corp started this mess and then bounced out of the alliance. Dunno why the rest of NFC is still going along with the war it seems silly, and even dangerous to your alliance considering D2 doesn't want to come prop you guys up.
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Tiree
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Posted - 2006.05.18 07:27:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Tiree on 18/05/2006 07:28:26 Edited by: Tiree on 18/05/2006 07:27:24
Originally by: Drachenlord Why do you people get hung up on station control? its a pain in the hindquarters to manage a station, there is a REASON that VentureCorp never wanted 3jn back from AUS Corp when they took it back for IRON in the BoB invasion.
If FLA want 3jn, just give it to them, its not like anyone truly uses the damn station to the extent that the other three are used.
To FLA it's not so much that we want to control the station, but at the moment we need to. We need to have a safe place where we can dock, since we were kicked out of CZD and had nowhere to go. We don't want that happening all over again. As soon as the need is gone, I believe the intension was to return it to the NFC (with FLA being part of it) and have the NFC back to what it was supposed to be.
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PhannJodoxis
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Posted - 2006.05.18 20:11:00 -
[82]
kudos to Alektrophobia and Burn Eden for playing robinhood in this. At least some of the NFC leaders have proven themselves to be greedy slobs. Blundering around trying to make up a reason for turning on what could be an amazing industrial core for an alliance in FLA; for what other reason than they thought they could make quick work of it and proceed to have fewer hands in the pot of profits. Making an a$$ out of your alliance .. priceless
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John Cant
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Posted - 2006.05.18 21:15:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Deersew1 I'd have to agree to the FLA guy above. Can anyone in NFC really see FLA handing back 3JN straight away, after they had to battle for it. Doesn't make sense to me.
I'd really like to see peace, but things seem too heated currently. Lets just hope someone else doesn't walk in and take the whole damn place
Personally im cowering in the 3jn station, not being able to clone. And therefore not coming out lol.
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John Cant
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Posted - 2006.05.18 21:16:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Deersew1
I'd really like to see peace, but things seem too heated currently. Lets just hope someone else doesn't walk in and take the whole damn place
Personally im cowering in the 3jn station, not being able to clone. And therefore not coming out lol.
I tried to leave 3jn tonight. Cloning rights have been removed so I can't change to another station, no jump clones available to bounce to and the second I left the station I was shot up and podded.
After "discussing" the situation on Local about how I wanted to simply move out of the system and leave them to it, I was "allowed out" only to be podded again as soon as I'd gotten out of AUS. Fair play to most, they were willing to listen and negotiate, even to the point of adding that they "were not like the NFC so should treat people better...". However all that happened was a betrayal of trust and gankage by Tharg and a few others who were "Just following orders from command".
Orders my arse, just ****s and giggles. There's a defenceless enemy to blow out of the sky! Who cares that he's actually trying to just leave?
"war on, 0.0 space, we had to shoot you, blah blah blah...." Heard it all before. All your actions like this do is provoke violent responses. (Prepping Main character to come north with a lot more firepower).
If a political situation is to be arranged then a ceasefire needs to be called and adhered to. petty shootouts like this and needless podding is just a waste. If people arn't prepared to see beyond the end of their gun barrels then it does not bode well.
NFC pilots trapped in 3jn need to be let out or more pointless combat will ensue. I would be more than happy to let FLA keep 3jn if it will broker a peace settlement. Hell, chop Deklein straight up the middle, split it North and south and divide it equally between the alliances.
How many FLA are trapped up in CZD and how many NFC are stuck similarly in 3JN?
Not being funny here or anything but there is no point in me paying for an eve account I can't use as I'm stuck in a station surrounded by trigger happy FLA members. I may as well suspend the account for a few months until one side or the other get's wiped out. unless people can negotiate that is.
Come on guys, sort it out. We are looking at seriously large amounts of casualties and costs here the longer this goes on.
JC
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Trinity Trixx
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Posted - 2006.05.18 21:41:00 -
[85]
Originally by: John Cant Stuff .. JC
Boo hoo... you want to see a resolution? You should speak your concerns/suggestions, etc to your leaders and force them to listen....
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MrCue
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Posted - 2006.05.18 22:10:00 -
[86]
^^ what she said :) FLA didn't start this. FLA don't want this to continue. Your leaders are forcing their hand. FLA have offered peace too many times to count only to be told to eff off by the NFC leadership.
If you want peace, let your leaders know that they are not currently representing your interests, or even the interests of the majority.
Killmail Database |
Tharg
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Posted - 2006.05.19 01:38:00 -
[87]
Originally by: John Cant However all that happened was a betrayal of trust and gankage by Tharg and a few others who were "Just following orders from command".
Orders my arse, just ****s and giggles. There's a defenceless enemy to blow out of the sky! Who cares that he's actually trying to just leave?
I didn't ask you to trust me. More's the question what is a Defenceless enemy doing there anyway? Was it perhaps you were up there on one of the numerous attacks mounted on us and got spanked for your troubles?
The way I see it you have no business up there until you get your leaders to stop this foul-smelling nonsense which they so eagerly cooked up in the first place.....did we ask YOU to attack us?
Originally by: John Cant
Not being funny here or anything but there is no point in me paying for an eve account I can't use as I'm stuck in a station surrounded by trigger happy FLA members. I may as well suspend the account for a few months until one side or the other get's wiped out. unless people can negotiate that is.
Good idea fella, put it on a long skill train for a month or two, wait till its all calmed down. Whilst ya at it, how about tell all your friends to do the same.....like the other 70 odd NFC that came in VERY shortly after our brief encounter. A war IS on fella, if I'm told to shoot pods I WILL SHOOT PODS. That lil' pod may just be headed towards the half a dozen empty ships in the safe spot next door. Pick your next attempt of escape carefully because I will open fire again...and again till you guys get the message and back down. And when this is over I will happily buy ya a ship or two at the same value as what you lost by me as a token of good will, maybe some Spiced Wine too.
.....will you replace the ships I've lost to your lot? :) Naaaa, don't think so. End of.
Hell, I never asked for this war...but I'm lovin' it
Never kick a tiger up the arse, unless you have a plan to deal with his teeth! |
ShyLion
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Posted - 2006.05.19 07:08:00 -
[88]
Tharg you did the right thing - We are at war and if it is RED it is DEAD.
I was given no quarter plenty of times and expected none. I suggest people don't muddy the playing field with shoot/dont' shoot until there is an official ceasefire or peace agreement. .
What is the difference between genius and stupidity? Genius has limits. - Albert Einstein.
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arjun
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Posted - 2006.05.19 08:32:00 -
[89]
how about dividing deklein with fla holding the northwest and nfc the southeast. that was the most acceptable solution even before the farkup started. the idea with the umbrella alliance can not work atm because it gives all power (stationcontrol)to one of the member alliances. umbrella aliances are not supported by the game mechanics atm.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.05.19 08:34:00 -
[90]
Originally by: SATAN I see many dead D2 people in the near future. Your threats are meaningless and your space is juicy, please give us a reason.
You think the region is unstable now? How about we move into YOUR region and then you can see what unstable really is.
Go ahead and plug this into an English to German translator and think about it.
PS. THIS IS A THREAT.
Amarr bOtise at its best. Your mind is really bounded above. Your own nonsignificance is so hard to accept?
(ooc: This is a incharacter forum, if you want to flame like a CS kid, go to the other part of the forum. In eve there is no english -> german translator, cause nobody speaks either english or german. Thanks in advantage)
Summertime - Campingtime!
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