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Aeryn Tiberius
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
13
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Posted - 2014.03.10 17:14:00 -
[61] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Aeryn Tiberius wrote:...a feature that should be free.
I would also just like to point out that you haven't explained why it should be free.
I stated that in Eve the "lack of customizable aesthetic features in eve have been appalling." In addition, we already have to pay a subscription to play the game. Why should we have to pay more for in game items? This goes back to the great protests.
CCP is testing the waters and I fell that it is important for CCP to consider offering the service for free and only have pilots pay a nominal fee at a station to pay for the painting of your ship. Making it easier to implement in the game. As the market should not have to change. A Rifter would still be a Rifter on the market even if it is pink as the buyer could just re-paint it at a cost if wanted or when it is sold it could just revert back to the vanilla color. |
Doireen Kaundur
149
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Posted - 2014.03.10 17:58:00 -
[62] - Quote
Aeryn Tiberius wrote:Having to purchase ship skins using Aurum is a bad idea. The community for a long time has asked for this feature. It should have been apart of the game a long time ago. The lack of customizable aesthetic features in eve have been appalling.
Actually it's perfect for Aurum IMO. It's cosmetic. No golden ammo for sale. However, you will be drawing attention to yourself, so it can become a liability in the end. Minimizing the cost of replacing implants.
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I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
1055
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Posted - 2014.03.10 18:10:00 -
[63] - Quote
Aeryn Tiberius wrote:Having to purchase ship skins using Aurum is a bad idea. The community for a long time has asked for this feature. It should have been apart of the game a long time ago. The lack of customizable aesthetic features in eve have been appalling. While I am excited about the possibility of maybe changing a ships colors, I will not be paying RL money for a feature that should be free, so that I can fly a slightly different looking ship into battle, all the while paying a monthly subscription fee to play. I have been a loyal player for over 5+ years but I think due to the already lack of customizable aesthetic features, CCP the least you could do is offer it for free!!!!!
P.S. for those of you who do not know
" In the first release of the pilot program we will be introducing eight skins available for Aurum, and one available exclusively through in-game achievement."
"Frigate paint; around 45 AURUM (~$0.23-$0.26) for a single application Battleship paint; around 350 AURUM (~$1.75-$2.00) for a single application"
No way near being the new monocle. You're not paying $70 for it now, are you? At least you can actually use it in game, and just not be a dress up item only you can see when you're in the CQ or look at your portrait like a monocle. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
2180
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Posted - 2014.03.10 18:13:00 -
[64] - Quote
eFart wrote:u need to buy the monocle first u can only see the paintings on the new ships when lookomg thrugh an monnocle but they might have other paintings too so u better wait
I am proud to give this man his first like. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Batelle
HOMELE55
2181
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Posted - 2014.03.10 18:16:00 -
[65] - Quote
Aeryn Tiberius wrote:CCP is testing the waters and I fell that it is important for CCP to consider offering the service for free and only have pilots pay a nominal fee at a station to pay for the painting of your ship.
So you're saying that paying a nominal isk fee to NPCs would be okay with you, but paying a nominal isk fee to another player is not okay?
I'm sure CCP considered offering it for free. They just decided not to. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2057
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Posted - 2014.03.10 18:29:00 -
[66] - Quote
Erotica 1 wrote:Some people are going to need repeated applications.
Presumably not of mayonnaise
Good post E 1 made me smile This is not a signature. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1030
|
Posted - 2014.03.10 19:33:00 -
[67] - Quote
Aeryn Tiberius wrote:CCP is testing the waters and I fell that it is important for CCP to consider offering the service for free and only have pilots pay a nominal fee at a station to pay for the painting of your ship. Making it easier to implement in the game. As the market should not have to change. A Rifter would still be a Rifter on the market even if it is pink as the buyer could just re-paint it at a cost if wanted or when it is sold it could just revert back to the vanilla color. Just wanted to point out that the nex store itself has absolutely nothing to do with the current implementation of ship skinning. Even if sold for isk as a station service we would still have the same issues of multiple hull types until CCP decided it was worthwhile to develop a proper system for applying the skins. So no, moving it away from aurum or the nex won't magically make it easier to implement. |
Victor Andall
Complexes and Abaddons
239
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Posted - 2014.03.11 00:27:00 -
[68] - Quote
Aeryn Tiberius wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Aeryn Tiberius wrote:...a feature that should be free.
I would also just like to point out that you haven't explained why it should be free. I stated that in Eve the "lack of customizable aesthetic features in eve have been appalling." In addition, we already have to pay a subscription to play the game. Why should we have to pay more for in game items? This goes back to the great protests.
Why shouldn't you? What have you done to deserve painting your ship for free?
Because I know what you didn't do.
Which was know what the Monocle Protests were about.
BURN! I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
Andall Combat Tournaments - on hiatus. Contact for more information. |
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
278
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Posted - 2014.03.11 07:18:00 -
[69] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:Faenir Antollare wrote:*note to self Pay 2 Plex to have the Char of my choice moved to a brand new account (cost involved here too) for the sole purpose of inclusion on the Monument, THEN, pay another plex just to exchange for Aurum so as to color said char's ship. Dual char training is due in both 4 days and then another 22 days -another 2 Plex, then add on the subscription for the 2 existing accounts -another 2 Plex. Getting a tad expensive eh? Might as well just be P2W Aside from everything you just said not being even remotely required by anything except by your whims. Why is everyone whining about needing Aurum to paint the ships? Have you checked Aurum prices on the EVE market yet? https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=32792There, two frigate paint jobs for what is essentially pocket change. .... When did they release Aurum as tokens? Can you convert Existing Aurum into Token form? so that you can then transfer it all to one character for easy Management? |
Samoth Egnoled
38568
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 08:56:00 -
[70] - Quote
I think making us pay for it suck donkey ****.
But, the ability to paint my Geddon as a giant Purple helmet warrior is amusing. Ego Sum Mortem Incarnatum - I Am Death Incarnate |
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mr ed thehouseofed
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
522
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 09:37:00 -
[71] - Quote
if you buy a car and want some to paint flames on it they are going to charge for it . same applies here you buy a ship and want to change the color of it, you will be charged real gamers only need one toon-á |
Jaxon Grylls
Institute of Archaeology
74
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Posted - 2014.03.11 09:52:00 -
[72] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:At first I was ready to be outraged. Then, I recalled, CCP sold out a long time ago. Go profit motive! What?
CCP aren't a charity, this stuff doesn't just happen, you know, it has to be paid for.
If you don't like it, don't play then you won't be asked to pay. |
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
431
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 10:19:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP again drawn to IAPs like a trillion flies to the dung heap of a dinosaur. Yeah yeah make some more money.
Don't they get it? Freemium as it stands right now, most prominent examples in mobile games is utter bullshit. It destroyed prices for good games and it made game design a rotten discipline. Imagine the new XCom game with the skip time button and the caption reading $0.50 / day.
Ah forget it, bitter tears rolling. Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,-á but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars. |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
341
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 12:15:00 -
[74] - Quote
Jaxon Grylls wrote:Serene Repose wrote:At first I was ready to be outraged. Then, I recalled, CCP sold out a long time ago. Go profit motive! What? CCP aren't a charity, this stuff doesn't just happen, you know, it has to be paid for. If you don't like it, don't play then you won't be asked to pay.
Its not like we pay them a subscription every month is it. Oh hang on. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
14051
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 12:41:00 -
[75] - Quote
Claud Tiberius wrote:If the ship is destroyed, do we still keep the paint? Are we able to use it on a new ship of the same type?
Nope.
1 Kings 12:11
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Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1106
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Posted - 2014.03.11 15:18:00 -
[76] - Quote
Aeryn Tiberius wrote:Nariya Kentaya wrote:Aeryn Tiberius wrote:Kom Bocket wrote:[quote=Aeryn Tiberius]
But you are not so quit whining I am not whining, just let down and disappointed CCP wants to go this direction. Maybe it will be like walking in stations, and just die out. it wont all be aurum. CCP this is a prototype to see how much people give a **** about it in the first place. they said they wanted a good split between LP/ISK and Aurum purchased skins, with the possibility of them implementing a more personalized and detailed system farther down the road. thsi system they are implementing is a market prototype, not representative of the final product. i swear to Carl people skim dev blogs for 1 or 2 words they know will get them angry, ignore the entire context of the rest of the dev blog, then start a huge shitstorm about it on the forums. Your right that it is a prototype and like I said might go the same way that walking in stations went. However, I think it should be made very simple and free. Like changing your avatar's pose and picture, you could also do the same to the ship. The value of the ship should not change other than a nominal fee for applying the paint to your ship. What CCP is saying that in an advanced universe with immortal clones and space stations through out the known universe, painting a ship is so complex that you have to pay some one more than just a nominal fee to use a template to change the appearance of your ship. In this case a Jovian type civilization in a Parallel Universe with the need to pay in the Parallel universe's currency! With that said, I would like to ask a question? How do you know for sure that there is going to be a good split. The fact that they are thinking about releasing 9 skins and only 1 can be bought with isk/lp is not a good indicator for what you are saying. It seems that CCP is making it to complex when in reality it could be done easier. I always imagined the system to be similar to something in Mechwarrior games. Plus it would be fun to see a group of gankers all in pink. As far as the templates go... You are painting your ship in VERY SPECIFIC colors, colors that if painted wrong, could end in the execution of whoever was in charge, so a template is pretty good for getting it right first time. As for price, have you ever had to get a car repainted? now times that price up a million because your having a spaceship with several square kilometers of surface area painted IN SPACE. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
447
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:44:00 -
[77] - Quote
Another whine post about microtransactions. /sigh
It shouldn't be free. And the game subscription money should be invested in things that matter. Extraneous vanity things should be separate. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4416
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 15:58:00 -
[78] - Quote
I would love a "General Lee" skin for the Brutix.
Yes the flag has plenty of room on the roof.
(I think only you geezers will understand this post) Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
342
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 16:46:00 -
[79] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Another whine post about microtransactions. /sigh
It shouldn't be free. And the game subscription money should be invested in things that matter. Extraneous vanity things should be separate.
So does that include the much asked for and supported high res texture pack? Where do you draw the line at a better looking game with more visual depth and vanity items? Being able to change the colour of your ship is pretty basic stuff, something that should have been in EVE many years ago along with Alliance logos.
CCP is looking at Wargaming and all the bazillions of dollars they're making and trying to test the waters and possibly emulate them, without putting into context their game design and business model is nothing like CCP's.
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Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
1374
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 17:07:00 -
[80] - Quote
Aeryn Tiberius wrote:Having to purchase ship skins using Aurum is a bad idea. The community for a long time has asked for this feature. It should have been apart of the game a long time ago. The lack of customizable aesthetic features in eve have been appalling. While I am excited about the possibility of maybe changing a ships colors, I will not be paying RL money for a feature that should be free, so that I can fly a slightly different looking ship into battle, all the while paying a monthly subscription fee to play. I have been a loyal player for over 5+ years but I think due to the already lack of customizable aesthetic features, CCP the least you could do is offer it for free!!!!!
P.S. for those of you who do not know
" In the first release of the pilot program we will be introducing eight skins available for Aurum, and one available exclusively through in-game achievement."
"Frigate paint; around 45 AURUM (~$0.23-$0.26) for a single application Battleship paint; around 350 AURUM (~$1.75-$2.00) for a single application"
You shut your mouth. You shut it right now. I swear to the gods, if you ruin this for me, I will hunt you down and kill you (in game, of course). That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
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Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
3427
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 17:16:00 -
[81] - Quote
Aeryn Tiberius wrote:
Your right that it is a prototype and like I said might go the same way that walking in stations went. However, I think it should be made very simple and free. Like changing your avatar's pose and picture, you could also do the same to the ship. The value of the ship should not change other than a nominal fee for applying the paint to your ship. What CCP is saying that in an advanced universe with immortal clones and space stations through out the known universe, painting a ship is so complex that you have to pay some one more than just a nominal fee to use a template to change the appearance of your ship. In this case a Jovian type civilization in a Parallel Universe with the need to pay in the Parallel universe's currency!
With that said, I would like to ask a question? How do you know for sure that there is going to be a good split. The fact that they are thinking about releasing 9 skins and only 1 can be bought with isk/lp is not a good indicator for what you are saying. It seems that CCP is making it to complex when in reality it could be done easier.
I always imagined the system to be similar to something in Mechwarrior games. Plus it would be fun to see a group of gankers all in pink.
Can it be done easier from a player's standpoint? Certainly, we've all seen it before in many flavors in previous games.
But from a technical standpoint this is NO easy task. Having poked around in the art assets of EVE with TriExporter and somewhat following the devs talks about regarding the features this is their main problem:
Every unique skin in the the game, be it NPC or player, of any faction, are all considered a different itemID on the database. While things like HP values, fitted modules, and current name of a player ship are all things that a ship is capable of on an individual scale things like art assets are certainly not.
This test program for ship painting is being done because if the response is positive then the devs can devote the large amount of time and effort into doing it properly. And that means a fairly involved refactoring of the asset system to accept extra ship skins that are able to be applied to an individual assembled ship just as easily as giving it a new name.
It all boils down to CCP fighting with a system that was designed in 1998 to never had had ship customization at all because it really wasn't at the forefront of their minds when they were creating an entire universe from scratch in relative isolation from most other games companies in the industry.
Now as far as paying for it goes, well vanity things like character customization for money is a standard thing in a F2P game. You really don't have any argument against this sorta thing besides a self entitlement from paying a subscription. The subscription + MT model is actually pretty cool because it gives CCP a little extra revenue for the things people care enough to buy instead of not having MTs at all and raising the price on the existing subscriptions to get the same extra income.
The impact this has on the PLEX market is a different conversation entirely and hope there can be something CCP can do to relieve the massive stress the value of the PLEX is seeing right now.
Perhaps the amount of AUR you get per PLEX should be scaled with current market values. PLEX prices are nearly double what they were when AUR was introduced.
Or what about separating AUR form PLEXes altogether? Why not just buy mass amounts of AUR tokens and sell those on the market so that we can have a separation of MT value from subscription value for people that pay their way with ISK bought PLEXes. The Drake is a Lie |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1030
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 17:36:00 -
[82] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:Jaxon Grylls wrote:Serene Repose wrote:At first I was ready to be outraged. Then, I recalled, CCP sold out a long time ago. Go profit motive! What? CCP aren't a charity, this stuff doesn't just happen, you know, it has to be paid for. If you don't like it, don't play then you won't be asked to pay. Its not like we pay them a subscription every month is it. Oh hang on. Most other sub based MMO's charge for expansions. Most other sub based MMO's probably don't throw as much effort into updating their hardware and the efficiency of their code to support greater numbers in the singular universe or support battles the size eve does. The largest sub based MMO has micro (and soon macro) transactions (even for actually progressing one's character)
Yeah, I think CCP has done enough to justify their sub cost compared to what their peers offer and beyond to justify the sub.
knobber Jobbler wrote:So does that include the much asked for and supported high res texture pack? Where do you draw the line at a better looking game with more visual depth and vanity items? Being able to change the colour of your ship is pretty basic stuff, something that should have been in EVE many years ago along with Alliance logos.
CCP is looking at Wargaming and all the bazillions of dollars they're making and trying to test the waters and possibly emulate them, without putting into context their game design and business model is nothing like CCP's. CCP's game design originally never allowed for ship customization, so by the logic you present we shouldn't get it. Even now it still technically doesn't. The only thing you are trying to preserve is the benefit of the business model from a pre-customization version of the game. What you list was never basic or probably even completely possible until the V3 shader update was completed and still has work to go before it's viable on a larger scale. |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
345
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 11:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:knobber Jobbler wrote:Jaxon Grylls wrote:Serene Repose wrote:At first I was ready to be outraged. Then, I recalled, CCP sold out a long time ago. Go profit motive! What? CCP aren't a charity, this stuff doesn't just happen, you know, it has to be paid for. If you don't like it, don't play then you won't be asked to pay. Its not like we pay them a subscription every month is it. Oh hang on. Most other sub based MMO's charge for expansions. Most other sub based MMO's probably don't throw as much effort into updating their hardware and the efficiency of their code to support greater numbers in the singular universe or support battles the size eve does. The largest sub based MMO has micro (and soon macro) transactions (even for actually progressing one's character) Yeah, I think CCP has done enough to justify their sub cost compared to what their peers offer and beyond to justify the sub. knobber Jobbler wrote:So does that include the much asked for and supported high res texture pack? Where do you draw the line at a better looking game with more visual depth and vanity items? Being able to change the colour of your ship is pretty basic stuff, something that should have been in EVE many years ago along with Alliance logos.
CCP is looking at Wargaming and all the bazillions of dollars they're making and trying to test the waters and possibly emulate them, without putting into context their game design and business model is nothing like CCP's. CCP's game design originally never allowed for ship customization, so by the logic you present we shouldn't get it. Even now it still technically doesn't. The only thing you are trying to preserve is the benefit of the business model from a pre-customization version of the game. What you list was never basic or probably even completely possible until the V3 shader update was completed and still has work to go before it's viable on a larger scale.
Are you able to comprehend English? I don't think I at any point stated I don't think that ship customisation shouldn't be added. I asked a question of where lines should be drawn - to the customer ship skins are just another visual treat like fancy warp effects, new missile trails or sorting out tidi (which CCP are obliged to do as prior to tidi the game was frankly unplayable). Frankly most won't give a **** that its currently hard to add due to lack of foresight at CCP. They'll just look at other games and go "well I can paint my fancy armour for free in Guild Wars so why can't I in EVE?". Fine, add some micropayments for ridiculous skins with flashing lights but paying money to change the basic colour of your ship is really rather ********.
Also, your facts appear to inaccurate and anecdotal. |
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
163
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 13:55:00 -
[84] - Quote
Come on guys, this is how CCP makes their money. It is a free to play- oh wait |
DeadDuck
Viziam Amarr Empire
71
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 15:36:00 -
[85] - Quote
This ship skin thing has all the potential to be a "lag bomb"... are you people imagining undcoking in Jita or warping to a grid where a big battle is taking place and your client downloading all the paint schemes on field ? I hope CCP makes them an option... |
Hastatus Shmoof Marii
Celestial Horizon Corp.
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 15:39:00 -
[86] - Quote
They are doing it through Aurum because they are testing the player demand for ships that have different paint jobs... |
Hal Morsh
The Witch's Hammer
82
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 17:31:00 -
[87] - Quote
If people whine enough CCP will scrap the ship skin prototype wont they? Then we will have people whinning for ages about ship skins that never happened. Just like walking in stations "never happened".
New features in eve?? GET PISSED! That always makes things better doesn't it. I enjoy a good session of mining. |
Crasniya
Strange Energy Gentlemen's Agreement
451
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 17:38:00 -
[88] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:If people whine enough CCP will scrap the ship skin prototype wont they? Then we will have people whinning for ages about ship skins that never happened. Just like walking in stations "never happened".
New features in eve?? GET PISSED! That always makes things better doesn't it.
I'm entirely convinced at this point that eventually CCP will move all development efforts on to other games, because the EVE community will have proven itself too snotty to be worth the effort. |
Hal Morsh
The Witch's Hammer
83
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 17:42:00 -
[89] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:If people whine enough CCP will scrap the ship skin prototype wont they? Then we will have people whinning for ages about ship skins that never happened. Just like walking in stations "never happened".
New features in eve?? GET PISSED! That always makes things better doesn't it. I'm entirely convinced at this point that eventually CCP will move all development efforts on to other games, because the EVE community will have proven itself too snotty to be worth the effort.
I'm more worried about this then anything. What happens when CCP has more then just the EVE universe making cash. I have seen so many games go stale for other ones so many times.
EVE is paying for the other games currently though, so at least there is that reason to keep working on it. I enjoy a good session of mining. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1032
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 19:18:00 -
[90] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote: Are you able to comprehend English? I don't think I at any point stated I don't think that ship customisation shouldn't be added. I asked a question of where lines should be drawn - to the customer ship skins are just another visual treat like fancy warp effects, new missile trails or sorting out tidi (which CCP are obliged to do as prior to tidi the game was frankly unplayable). Frankly most won't give a **** that its currently hard to add due to lack of foresight at CCP. They'll just look at other games and go "well I can paint my fancy armour for free in Guild Wars so why can't I in EVE?". Fine, add some micropayments for ridiculous skins with flashing lights but paying money to change the basic colour of your ship is really rather ********.
Also, your facts appear to inaccurate and anecdotal.
You complained about them violating their game design and business model. Their game design didn't allow for customization so of course it would have to change, making that complaint contradictory. The point about drawing lines is pretty subjective, where you equate individual assets to a global set of textures for all assets. I don't think it's fair to equate the 2. Though I guess in the end both of our opinions don't matter as it will be up to CCP to determine if there is a premium price point for it, not that I won't have an opinion.
Regarding my facts, what specifically do you find to be inaccurate? I'm willing to admit I may even be completely wrong, but I'd need something concrete here. |
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