Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Naverin
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 20:41:00 -
[1]
ive been doing some research and in touch with the people of Ebay.
Granted I can try and report every eve-online isk auction and some will probably get removed but theres 100's more being made..
Now im being told that you CCP eve-online can simply request Ebay to remove any Auctions pertaining to isk sales or Accounts.. IE. intelectual property. and they will happily remove them for you.. and do a fairly decent job so im hearing.
Has this option been discussed yet? because it would seem logical to Simply do that and let Ebay police the auctions. ______________________ I am the carebear...
who doesnt use the "Correct Dread"
|
HippoKing
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 20:43:00 -
[2]
sony did that, but i guess they have more lawyers than CCP.
might as well try though.
eBay probably take some persuading to let go of revenue
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
Rorix Whitecloud
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 20:44:00 -
[3]
google the term "eve isk"... and see how little ebay matters? heh...
~Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt. That's the first thing they teach you. ~Who taught you? ~I don't remember. That's the second thing they teach you. -Ronin |
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 20:47:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Naverin Granted I can try and report every eve-online isk auction and some will probably get removed but theres 100's more being made..
None will be removed. They condone the sale of virtual items, there's nothing in ebay's TOS or EULA that forbids violating Eve's EULA and the only reason you'll get it removed is if they're selling something you own the rights to. You aren't CCP, so you don't own the rights to what's being sold and ebay won't do a thing about anything you report. There's even an established section for Eve Online sales.
As I understand it, if CCP simply officially ask for Eve sales to be removed and disallowed, they will comply. I'm wondering if they've attempted this.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
|
kieron
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 20:49:00 -
[5]
Naverin, I'm honestly not sure if that is something the legal team has tried or not. I've brought your post to their attention, I hope this is something you are correct in.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online |
|
M3ta7h3ad
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 20:57:00 -
[6]
They do it for tickets and so on once they've been asked. No reason why EBay wouldnt listen to CCP. Its CCP's intellectual property.
It wouldnt take a letter from a lawyer I doubt, it'd take the current CEO of CCP to notify them in writing asking them to remove any EVE-online products from the listings. ----- If you kill all the wolves, your gonna end up with a crapload of bunnies, and by bunnies I mean stupid people Eve & Linux Woot! |
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 20:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: kieron Naverin, I'm honestly not sure if that is something the legal team has tried or not. I've brought your post to their attention, I hope this is something you are correct in.
I suggested it months ago. Ebay have a scheme where the owners of intellectual copyright can contact them and ask to have items removed and added to the banned items list.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Eternal Fury
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 21:08:00 -
[8]
Naverin is now Kill on sight by all the ebayers.. :)
demand is greater then supply = high price.
supply is greater then demand = low price.
|
Zeonog
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 21:10:00 -
[9]
Ebay have a section for EVE online for people to sell their stuff. So your saying they will remove this if they are asked? I doubt it tbh.
|
Naverin
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 21:11:00 -
[10]
I hope so.. I need more people to come visit me in my empire station and watch me sit there 24/7 While training on a Implant clone :/ ______________________ I am the carebear...
who doesnt use the "Correct Dread"
|
|
Miss Overlord
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 21:46:00 -
[11]
lol and lol - lets hope it works out shut down at least that avenue but i doubt will have any long term impact will just go more underground
|
Naal Morno
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 21:48:00 -
[12]
I can already see 1000s of covetors camping yoru station
Chars like sejksdj1, fhkjfhh3, kjfhdfh4 etc hehe _________________________________________
Every time you whine a little HAC is destroyed. Please think of the little HACs |
Pwny McPwnerson
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 21:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Eternal Fury Naverin is now Kill on sight by all the ebayers.. :)
They're all going to wardec him, no doubt.
|
Naverin
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 21:53:00 -
[14]
Lol ive already got My local asfdsde characters in Tash-murkon Prime..
=( Maybe they will call all their friends and we can have a macro party in system..
:/ ______________________ I am the carebear...
who doesnt use the "Correct Dread"
|
Lonectzn
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 22:41:00 -
[15]
$40US for a t2 fitted Typhoon? C'mon.
I'm surprised at the exchange rate for ISK. Never looked those places before, completely not worth it. Though I guess at the same time that's what makes time cards -so- worth it =)
-----------------
|
Vincent Rainbow
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 23:04:00 -
[16]
CCP have a 'legal team' ?
What do they do?
|
Amthrianius
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 23:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Vincent Rainbow CCP have a 'legal team' ?
What do they do?
Oveur & TomB bought a copy of "legal issues for dummies"[
:|] ---------------
|
Verizana
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 23:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Vincent Rainbow CCP have a 'legal team' ?
What do they do?
Ice T cop set.
All The Kru vids |
The TX
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 23:35:00 -
[19]
CCP to eBay: 'All your ISK are belong to us'
eBay to CCP: 'OMG you guyz pwn!, here, take the ISK, we no want it'
----------------- LONDON PLAYER MEET Media Thread Mining |
HUGO DRAX
|
Posted - 2006.04.12 23:50:00 -
[20]
A Deimos for 60 USD lol!!!
I can just imagine some loser paying 60 bucks for a deimos and then getting ganked. Poof 30 seconds later and 60 dollars down the tube.
Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel |
|
Malthros Zenobia
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 01:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: HippoKing eBay probably take some persuading to let go of revenue
"Hey, your website claims it will remove the sale of intellectual property. Remove ours, orwe'll have mr. Sue make you remove it."
I'm sure there would be enough legally to go to court over if eBay claims/advertises that it removes intellectual property, but doesn't.
I know I've sent lots of eBay listings to get removed, but no idea if they did or got bought/ran out of time.
Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Malthros Zenobia
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 01:19:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 13/04/2006 01:21:30
Originally by: Eternal Fury Naverin is now Kill on sight by all the ebayers.. :)
But he's probably NAPed by everyone else.
Besides, I'd love to have ebayers put me as KOS, I could use a bunch of kill-rights on macro miner groups.
Originally by: Amthrianius
Originally by: Vincent Rainbow CCP have a 'legal team' ?
What do they do?
Oveur & TomB bought a copy of "legal issues for dummies"[
:|]
I thought that was to prop a busted leg on Oveur's desk?
Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 01:38:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 13/04/2006 01:39:48
Originally by: kieron Naverin, I'm honestly not sure if that is something the legal team has tried or not. I've brought your post to their attention, I hope this is something you are correct in.
Yes, there is the verified rights IP program. HOWEVER, I suggest that your legal department read the fine print VERY closely. Star Sonata had a minor problem with this, and on reading the fine print backed away from using it and relied on working out who sellers were manually and banning them instead.
(There are some not-so-obvious implications which may or may not matter to CCP)
Also, unfortuately, forcing ebay to shut down sales has had, in other MMO's, little or no effect on the volume of secondary market trade...the selling shifts to other websites and suppliers where players are more easily scammed.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Ethan Tomlinson
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 02:58:00 -
[24]
im just curious but if ebay stopped seeling eve isk on request by ccp whats to stop somebody from starting up their own .com company strictly for the selling of online gaming equipment and currency for rl money using paypal or whatever...? could ccp take them to court? would they win or would they have to start selling isk just to pay the lawyer fee's...
|
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 03:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson im just curious but if ebay stopped seeling eve isk on request by ccp whats to stop somebody from starting up their own .com company strictly for the selling of online gaming equipment and currency for rl money using paypal or whatever...? could ccp take them to court? would they win or would they have to start selling isk just to pay the lawyer fee's...
There'd be nothing illegal going on, CCP can't take someone to court for breaking the EULA. They can, however, find out who they are and ban them.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
voogru
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 03:30:00 -
[26]
Edited by: voogru on 13/04/2006 03:30:56 The only way to stop ISK selling, is to ban players buying ISK.
No buyers = No sellers No sellers = No farmers No farmers = yay
Every time a player is banned for buying ISK, they should be named & shamed (character name only), as a deterent for other players to buy ISK.
|
Remedial
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 03:31:00 -
[27]
Ebay are not legally accountable for players of an online game selling their accounts in violation of a private EULA agreement. Ebay isn't even facilitating illegal activity. People breaking Eve's EULA are not breaking the law, they are breaking a private contract with CCP to abide by certain rules in return for being allowed to play the game.
Now if there was a law on the books someplace that said that CCP had the right to sue Ebay for damages in the event Ebay facilitated a transaction detrimental to CCP, there might be some legal grounding. But as far as I know, there is no such law in either America or Iceland.
|
Kraven Kor
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 03:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: kieron Naverin, I'm honestly not sure if that is something the legal team has tried or not. I've brought your post to their attention, I hope this is something you are correct in.
I hereby offer my services to send you the links (in return for Isk, or maybe just some exotic dancers... LOTS of exotic dancers...)
Strength through Unity, Discipline, and Honor! |
Joskken Inx
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 03:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: voogru Edited by: voogru on 13/04/2006 03:30:56 The only way to stop ISK selling, is to ban players buying ISK.
No buyers = No sellers No sellers = No farmers No farmers = yay
Every time a player is banned for buying ISK, they should be named & shamed (character name only), as a deterent for other players to buy ISK.
Yeah but the hard part is how do you prove character X bought ISK from character Y? You would have to have the seller provide all their records of sales, because browsing thru all those Eve auctions I don't see a single bidder using their in-game name. It's a huge mess, but to shut it down or ban someone you'd have to prove their was a "sale", otherwise it's just heresay and nothing more than delving into 1000's of stories and excuses and reasons. I honestly have no suggestion how to break it, save for expanding CCP online store and availibility of gamecards, or provide other, sanctioned venues to do business so at least CCP is still getting their cut. A slight example is Project Entropia (shuddering) their currency model, if anything, is worth examining to see how to improve and control currency trading. -------------- Semper Fidelis |
Epsilon 1
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 03:59:00 -
[30]
/signed
Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
|
|
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 04:20:00 -
[31]
Originally by: voogru The only way to stop ISK selling, is to ban players buying ISK.
It's already banned. What now?
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Daren Raxx
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 04:44:00 -
[32]
Well in SWG the term we used was CCF(chinese credit farmers)
They were all over the server running missions, from player citys that were not busy. I dont know about EVE but in SWG they were easily spoted and known. They ran around in packs of 8+ all low levels and 1 high level(the ringleader)
Devs always made posts to the community to /report them but they were never dealt with, because there isnt much they could do for proff. Sure it dont take a rocket scientist to know what there doing but with out solid proff nothing can happen.
As for them being removed from ebay, I doubt that will happen. If it was as easy for CCP to just ask them to be removed, Im sure all the other company's from diff games woulda figured that out. EVE is just one of MANY games ppl use to profit from on ebay/internet. Not to mention for SWG even though it was run by SOE Lucas arts is still the main and trust me when i say if legal action would affect it, Goerge Lucas woulda done it, you know how he is when it comes to other ppl making a profit of his "Star Wars" title.
|
Kalaan Oratay
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 08:09:00 -
[33]
Can CCP buy some of the cheaper stuff, (I think I saw some stuff for like 5 bucks) and then ban the dude that delievers -> follow the paper trail and ban all involved etc etc? Or does such a paper trail even exist?
Or could CCP setup fake ebay auctions and then ban anyone who bought items from them? Im sure you could work it legally such that, money is exchanged, isk is sent, at which point the EULA has been broken and CCP is within its rights to ban accounts. Do this 10 or so times and the fear of getting banned could dry up the market quite well.
Maybe the combination of the two could result in no net monetary losses (for CCP..)? ^^
|
spurious signal
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 08:10:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Vincent Rainbow CCP have a 'legal team' ?
What do they do?
I think Kieron meant to say "barely legal team"
|
Big Muthatrucker
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 08:13:00 -
[35]
Too many people actualy make a living off of selling IP...I remember a case involving a korean man (dont remember the specifics) but due to a server failure (I think it was UO) some accounts got rolled back or deleted...at anyrate this guy lost some fake fantasy ideas basicly some lines of code and sued EA and won...dont think EA ended up paying though cuz this guy wa In korea and notorious for copy right infringement so I think it came down to yea right we'll pay as soon as finding a legitimate copy of any game was easier than finding rips found at every street corner market vendor.
I have an Idea though would actualy do two things at once. Take 3 months...make everything in the game 1 isk...at the end of the 3 months...all items bought for 1 isk would dissapear...remove concord and all sentry guns from the galaxy...every sector 0.0 and no sec status hits...would be total chaos (total fun) and it would make it so for 3 months no one would buy any isk from these bozos making it hard for them to put food on the table...forcing them to sell their computers to pay rent and live in a cardboard box....the same effect would be achieved if for the same time frame you made BP reqs only 1 of each mineral making mining useless...but a little harder to regulate
Heartless you say? Yes you know why these guys justify this as work treating the eve world as real life and such they deserve to make real life money off of it...well in real life if you aquire money illegaly (counterfiting, stealing ect) using their own criteria they are criminals and should not get anything better than a soggy card board box...
Inappropriate content - Laqum |
voogru
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 08:50:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Joskken Inx
Yeah but the hard part is how do you prove character X bought ISK from character Y? You
That's easy!
Hmm, player X (who is 2 years old, in a player corp) suddenly got 100M isk from player Y (which they are in an NPC corp, 1 day old, and their name is "dsadhasiudhau")
Hmm, thats a pretty nice newbie giving away 100M ISK to some random player... Wait, how did he get 100M ISK so fast?
Oh, look, he sent 100M ISK to player A, and player B, player C, player D, player E, and 500 million to player F!!!!
Originally by: Nyphur It's already banned. What now?
My point is, the GM's don't ban players for buying ISK, or ban players selling accounts, unless they recieve tips from the player base. They don't have the manpower to do it, and they have to take care of normal petitions.
I'm sure theres a few unlucky sobs that get banned, but the majority get away with it, because if they didn't get away with it, people wouldnt be buying ISK, as people who buy ISK, are usually repeat buyers.
The solution: GM's dedicated to banning eBayers only.
|
Nyphur
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 08:53:00 -
[37]
Originally by: voogru
Originally by: Nyphur It's already banned. What now?
My point is, the GM's don't ban players for buying ISK, or ban players selling accounts, unless they recieve tips from the player base. They don't have the manpower to do it
No, they don't have a crystal ball. No amount of manpower gives someone the ability to pull correct facts out of thin air.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Cypherous
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 10:01:00 -
[38]
Originally by: M3ta7h3ad They do it for tickets and so on once they've been asked. No reason why EBay wouldnt listen to CCP. Its CCP's intellectual property.
It wouldnt take a letter from a lawyer I doubt, it'd take the current CEO of CCP to notify them in writing asking them to remove any EVE-online products from the listings.
Actually some people sell the EVE CD's and other goods so just doing a blanket removal of EVE from ebay wouldn't work, you would have to target isk specifically and also in-game items.
O RLY?! --Jorauk Way cooler than Jorauk - Cortes |
ParMizaN
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 10:11:00 -
[39]
Ive seen it done before, would be an excellent idea IMO. Not a 100% solution, but definately major.
Phenomena of ironies, cast the litany aside How intelligible, blessed be the forgetful |
HippoKing
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 10:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Daren Raxx As for them being removed from ebay, I doubt that will happen. If it was as easy for CCP to just ask them to be removed, Im sure all the other company's from diff games woulda figured that out.
Haven't they?
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
|
Kayno
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 13:51:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Kayno on 13/04/2006 13:53:56 Well,
I think people selling isk or other thing have a legal defense, they sell "time of play" like paying for someone doing missions to bring you an item. So basicaly if you try to ban them for selling "Intel property" they defend themself saying they sell a service, renting a player to obtain objects for you.
And this is legal :( i don't know nothing about ebay policy on virtual objects selling.
I saw this about an other game, i'll try to find the link.
I found this : http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/06/30/news_6101604.html Interesting ---
|
D'onryu Shoqui
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 13:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kayno Well,
I think people selling isk or other thing have a legal defense, they sell "time of play" like paying for someone doing missions to bring you an item. So basicaly if you try to ban them for selling "Intel property" they defend themself saying they sell a service, renting a player to obtain objects for you.
And this is legal :( i don't know nothing about ebay policy on virtual objects selling.
I saw this about an other game, i'll try to find the link.
its still ilegal unless they are paying taxes to there goverment and i bet 0 of the isk farmers do.
your suposed to declare all income so they cant say crap about it.
obviously the big companys are probably different but the people who sell regular isk to them arent going to be filling in tax forms or declaring it as an income like they should.
|
Daimos Bellurdan
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 13:56:00 -
[43]
It is not possible to stop the selling of ISK or items.
Like someone said before: The problem is not the selling. The problem are the buyers. All that stuff is being bought by regular Eve players. Either you punish those players (very hard to do) or you change the game in a way so that buying items does not give you an advantage over other players or does not save your time (which cpp will not do, as they also want to earn money).
What I do not understand is: Why are you so against the selling of ISK and items? If ppl want to destroy their own gaming experience then let them.. Or are you thinking: "Mining is so boring and time consuming. Its not fun, it is work and it is unfair when others just buy it." Then I would ask: Why are you actually playing this game ?
|
Sensor Error
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 13:59:00 -
[44]
I'm actually gobsmacked that this is seemingly the first time CCP have heard of talking to eBay to get rid of all the IP infringement going on. I don't think there has been a single eBay / isk seller thread where someone hasn't mentioned the IP scheme that eBay do...
I'm actually shocked.
I think everyone had assumed that this was going on behind the scenes and thus couldn't be spoken about... RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
------------------------------------------
Now run along and play with your dolls...
|
Flyyn
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:00:00 -
[45]
First off did you read the OP? E-bay has been through a ringer, with Sony, EA, and a few others....
Second, I seem to recall a well known pirate being on the forums trying to get out from under -900,000,000.00 isk wallet. As he had already spent the ISK he "bought" off a E-bay seller.
As for E-bay sales, that is how we caught a CEO of another well known pirate corp...One of the members in a shadow corp bought...yes I said bought...a rupture from him off of E-bay.
I really dont beleave a "pirate" can make lots of ISK from gate camping anymore...Most items are destroyed, and whats left is chicken scratch...
|
Viktor Fyretracker
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:01:00 -
[46]
SOE did it but they have the Sony Corp legal department and SOE is a US based company which means threatening legal action is a bit more real(but i think its more the sony corp lawyers and their unlimited funds).
|
D'onryu Shoqui
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:04:00 -
[47]
Quote: What I do not understand is: Why are you so against the selling of ISK and items? If ppl want to destroy their own gaming experience then let them..
its not just there experience it hurts the whole economy.
|
Flyyn
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:04:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Daimos Bellurdan Edited by: Daimos Bellurdan on 13/04/2006 13:57:17 It is not possible to stop the selling of ISK or items.
Like someone said before: The problem is not the selling. The problem are the buyers. All that stuff is being bought by regular Eve players. Either you punish those players (very hard to do) or you change the game in a way so that buying items does not give you an advantage over other players or does not save your time (which cpp will not do, as they also want to earn money).
What I do not understand is: Why are you so against the selling of ISK and items? If ppl want to destroy their own gaming experience then let them.. Or are you thinking: "Mining is so boring and time consuming. Its not fun, it is work and it is unfair when others just buy the mins." Then I would ask: Why are you actually playing this game ?
You got a point...Why spend all that money on a game? RL money is spent to play...RL money is spent to buy better ships...mods...and skills....and even though there is a trace of those transactions, I have not seen or heard of anyone getting caught and punished for it in a long time.
|
Jinx Barker
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:07:00 -
[49]
As someone suggested above; CCP make allot of money now. So, let them allocate 5,000 Dollars. Have Kieron make an E-Bay account and send him to town buying stuff from the worst offenders. I mean fromt he guys that have 5000 feedback and all about eve-online and stuff.
After Kieron buys the stuff and they deliver it to his alt in Jita, they keep track of them, oh I dont know for a month, record all transactions and stuff with other players who buy, sell, trade, suply.
Then, a month later, Kieron talks to Oveur and they wave a huge mega-banstick and 500, to 1000 accounts go permabaned, I am sure they will find the supliers of the stuff and those who bought it.
Yeas, it involves spending their own CCP money, but oce they do that, it will probably scare s*tless all those who are selling, because they could be selling to CCP.
Also, all their little disclaimers:
"You are paying for the time it has taken to get the item", "By bidding you certify you are in no way affiliated with CCP" and stuff is all bool-crap and has no legal ramification in real life.
Just like I cant sell a COPY of microsoft CD, I shouldnt to be able to sell my character or my ISK. Since the COPY of the CD and not the original is piracy and violation of Microsoft (read the spawn of Satan), intelelctual right, so is selling a character or ISK on E-Bay is a violation of CCP's Intellectual Property rights.
Hey CCP, hire me, give me 3 grand and I will spend it all on ISK and ingame items. After I give you the names you trace em. All I want is an Impoc in return, no need to bother Kieron with it. (And I will give all the stuff I bought back to ya of course)
|
Viktor Fyretracker
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:07:00 -
[50]
Isk/platinum/gold selling ruins many MMO economies because the bots aquiring it ruin spawns for real players(in EVE this means less astroids for dedicated miners) and then as people become Artifically rich the prices go way up and basicly make the honest player unable to afford anything
|
|
D'onryu Shoqui
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:12:00 -
[51]
Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 13/04/2006 14:13:20 CCP should contact paypal about people selling ingame items that they dont legally own. im sure paypal would be willing to refund any transactions CCP would make using there service for content that belongs to CCP in the first place.
if i owned CCP i would start threatening people with court cases for selling isk. most people wouldnt be willing to risk huge court costs if they lost.
|
Daimos Bellurdan
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:17:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... Then, a month later, Kieron talks to Oveur and they wave a huge mega-banstick and 500, to 1000 accounts go permabaned, I am sure they will find the supliers of the stuff and those who bought it. ...
You really think a company will kick 500-1000 players just because you say so ? Wake up. As long as you keep playing the game, CCP will not act. Why should they? Whiners will always exist and those 500-1000 accounts belong to PAYING customers.
If you do not like the way the game is then you have the right to start a discussion and prove why it is wrong the way it is. But in the end the only way to "force" ccp to do something is by quiting Eve. That is the best demonstration you can give. If a lot of people follow, ccp will act. But of course you will not quit so I guess the problem is not that big.
|
Sir Juri
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:18:00 -
[53]
Originally by: HippoKing Edited by: HippoKing on 13/04/2006 13:52:59
Originally by: Daren Raxx As for them being removed from ebay, I doubt that will happen. If it was as easy for CCP to just ask them to be removed, Im sure all the other company's from diff games woulda figured that out.
Haven't they?
this is why lol
Im a noob, bear with me :P |
Jinx Barker
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:28:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Daimos Bellurdan
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... Then, a month later, Kieron talks to Oveur and they wave a huge mega-banstick and 500, to 1000 accounts go permabaned, I am sure they will find the supliers of the stuff and those who bought it. ...
You really think a company will kick 500-1000 players just because you say so ? Wake up. As long as you keep playing the game, CCP will not act. Why should they? Whiners will always exist and those 500-1000 accounts belong to PAYING customers.
If you do not like the way the game is then you have the right to start a discussion and prove why it is wrong the way it is. But in the end the only way to "force" ccp to do something is by quiting Eve. That is the best demonstration you can give. If a lot of people follow, ccp will act. But of course you will not quit so I guess the problem is not that big.
1) So, people who think that ISK selling and In-Game Item Selling on E-Bay is plain WRONG are whiners? 2) So, you are saying selling ISK/In Game-Items on E-Bay, although explicitly prohibited by EULA, is Ok? 3) No I will not quit, I love the game. 4) So, so long as I pay my 15 Euros/Dollar/Pounds a month I am pretty much immune, and following your logic, should go sell my 5 Billion-ISK ship on E-Bay w/o expecting any type or repercussion.
What exactly are you saying? I am saying this: If CCP has knowledge & can trace 500-1000 accounts that sell ISK/In-Game items, or involved in illegal trading, they should ban them, permanently. WTF, it doesnÆt matter if they are ôpaying customerö they are violating EULA, which is in place to protect CCP and to which we agree every time we start the game.
Just because I am a paying customer I should be able to screw them you mean? I donÆt get it, again, what exactly did you mean by your statement.
|
Slynk
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:37:00 -
[55]
Actually in EQ1 SOE stepped up and made Ebay remove all the charecters for sale, tho ppl just found ways around the system. But it removed alot that were for sale. Went from like 5 pages of listings to maybe 1 full.
|
D'onryu Shoqui
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 14:54:00 -
[56]
Quote: You really think a company will kick 500-1000 players just because you say so ? Wake up. As long as you keep playing the game, CCP will not act. Why should they? Whiners will always exist and those 500-1000 accounts belong to PAYING customers.
blizzard do it every few months. they ban more than just a few thousand aswell. they banned 18,000 accounts about 3-4 months ago and so they are probably due for a mass ban again anytime soon.
|
|
kieron
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 20:43:00 -
[57]
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui
Quote: You really think a company will kick 500-1000 players just because you say so ? Wake up. As long as you keep playing the game, CCP will not act. Why should they? Whiners will always exist and those 500-1000 accounts belong to PAYING customers.
blizzard do it every few months. they ban more than just a few thousand aswell. they banned 18,000 accounts about 3-4 months ago and so they are probably due for a mass ban again anytime soon.
Funny you should mention that, evidently Blizzard hit 5,400 players with the ban stick and levied temp bans on another 10,700 players within the past day or three. Their crime? "The use of third-party programs to farm gold and items."
As for CCP, we may not have the same community size that WoW has, but we do actively seek out and take action against macro'ers and RMT sellers, up to and including permanent bans. We just hit them in smaller batches (50-100 players upon an exhaustive investigation) and tend to not make announcements about it.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online |
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 21:07:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Jinx Barker As someone suggested above; CCP make allot of money now. So, let them allocate 5,000 Dollars. Have Kieron make an E-Bay account and send him to town buying stuff from the worst offenders. I mean fromt he guys that have 5000 feedback and all about eve-online and stuff.
Let's be clear, Ebay will NOT tolerate this. If you want to sa***uard your IP, they have the verified rights program...that's it. There are all sorts of fraudulent trading issues with the a MMO company buying back anonomously from Ebay.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
D'onryu Shoqui
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 21:28:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kieron As for CCP, we may not have the same community size that WoW has, but we do actively seek out and take action against macro'ers and RMT sellers, up to and including permanent bans. We just hit them in smaller batches (50-100 players upon an exhaustive investigation) and tend to not make announcements about it.
any chance you could find out the average age of each account banned and post the number here? im just curious to wether its usually newer accounts or if alot of older accounts do naughty things aswell.
|
Naverin
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 21:33:00 -
[60]
its all accounts 2-3 months old doing the macroing in barges now.. id like to assume if you have been in the game 1 year + You have the ability to make plenty of Isk without resorting to macroing Lowend ores in highsec
As for Ebay per the poster up a few posts.. Ebay has no choice but to comply. As sony did for Everquest.. CCP can do for Eve-online and Ebay will comply being that The intelectual property is actually CCP's and no one elses no matter how you word it..
Joke.. with Free Eve-online account.. my pen with a bonus of 1 billion isk..
They dont fly.. Sony put its foot down on Ebay.. and so should eve. it would be a sight to actually see Ebay without 10 pages of Isk sales. ______________________ I am the carebear...
who doesnt use the "Correct Dread"
|
|
D'onryu Shoqui
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 21:41:00 -
[61]
bet its hard to tell if barges are macroing or not though. unless the person has a stupid name like "jfjdgdg" with a hauler collecting with the name "dhfdghf" ,if someone saw me mining in my covetor they would probably think im a macro miner and they wouldnt get any response from me in local or any other channel either as it takes 6mins to fill my hold and during that time i will be browsing the net or watching something on my comp. only ever alt tabbing back to eve to dock or warp back to the belt and lock roids again.
i usually run agent missions but every now and then i need a break from it so just semi afk mine low end ores while i do other things. unless CCP do the same as blizzard and have the game monitor running procceses to catch macro programs then it must be almost impossible to tell whos using macro's and whos not.
|
Tasuric Orka
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 21:45:00 -
[62]
Yeah, soon i'll be mining in a covetor with a bestower next to me 24/7, i wonder how many people will think im a MM.
But it wouldnt hold up, being in a corp and all.. ________________________________________________ Hypocritical. |
Argenton Sayvers
|
Posted - 2006.04.13 23:42:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 13/04/2006 23:43:16 This entire thing is very interesting - look at my wallet and try to tell wether i am an ebay seller, a laundering node for farmed money, or just a reseller playing the game the way it was ment to be played.
Facts:
Getting ebay to remove certain items is meaningless, as there are professional sites out there proving this service.
1.Its not illegal to sell ISK on ebay (unless you live in a country where anything that has not been explicitly allowed is illegal). It may be declared illegal, but its as likely that your accomplishments in game are declared your intellectual property (after all, a book you write using MS word is still your book) and the passages in the EULA regulating this are declared illegal. Basically, the best lawyers win, an "buyISK4ca$$.com" makes enough money now to afford decent lawyers these days.
2.If you make enough money selling ISK on ebay that you have to report it to pay taxes, what is preventing you from doing so?
3. Professionals who intend to make their living playing eve will not be using characters named isfjfsjfeoi, will not be macro-ing in barges in jita. They will do what you would do if you could play eve instead of going to work ... t2 BPOs, farming 10/10 complexes, suiciding in jita. They will also take part in hunting macro-ers, post long-winded anti-macro whines, maybe even visit the fanfest, work as ISDs etc. After all, you have time and real interest to move ahead in Eve. Not that i have proof that this is happening, its just what i would do.
Hell, just imagine you had controll over 20 people (because you employ them) - would it be really hard to orchestrate a corp mining operation / capital ship production / t2 manufacturing alliance? Unlike other alliances, you dont need to worry about loyality, people losing interest etc.
4.The amount of money and extensive networks of alts that Naal Morno, Khatred (well known figures in eve economy) and to a lesser extent resellers like me move is staggering. Good luck proving that those 550m i made within 159minutes by claiming and relisting an escrow were a clever attempt to launder money ... You can of course ban me without real evidence , but then i would know what conditions trigger a ban, and use this technique to grief innocents - to deter companies from actually banning suspects without rock-hard proof.
Live is not as easy as you may think ... good luck anyway, last think i want is people suing people for blowing up their faction fitted Navy raven...
|
Tek'a Rain
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 07:13:00 -
[64]
you still readin' Kieron?
|
Drizit
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 07:59:00 -
[65]
I have just looked and seen a major problem which may wreak havoc in getting Ebay to ban those sales.
Every one I looked at actually states that the isk is the intellectual property of CCP. In the case of items, they state that the item is the intellectual property of CCP. They also make a point of saying you are not buying isk or the item but merely the time they took to manufacture/mine etc to make the isk/item or combinations thereof.
The fact that they are effectively selling thier own time investment in the game and not the item itself may cause enough of a legal problem that Ebay would be within it's rights to refuse.
Sunday trading in the UK had a similar sort of problem a few years back. By law, you could sell fruit but not DIY tools so people were selling an orange for 20 bucks and giving away a free power drill with every purchase. Therefore they weren't "selling" the power tools. Eventually, the government just gave in and allowed the sale of power tools on Sunday rather than try to battle it out legally in a situation where they had little hope of winning.
--
|
voogru
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 08:16:00 -
[66]
Originally by: kieron We just hit them in smaller batches (50-100 players upon an exhaustive investigation) and tend to not make announcements about it.
Announcments should be made, that would help deter buyers from buying ISK.
Possibly even name and shame them (character names only ofc).
|
Malthros Zenobia
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 15:28:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker SOE did it but they have the Sony Corp legal department and SOE is a US based company which means threatening legal action is a bit more real(but i think its more the sony corp lawyers and their unlimited funds).
I think it's more the risk of Sony's huge legal team pwning eBay so hard that if they didn't comply, eBay would've been banned from the US or fined so heavily that they'd never make it back off SOE-related commissions.
Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Malthros Zenobia
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 15:31:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Daimos Bellurdan
Originally by: Jinx Barker
... Then, a month later, Kieron talks to Oveur and they wave a huge mega-banstick and 500, to 1000 accounts go permabaned, I am sure they will find the supliers of the stuff and those who bought it. ...
You really think a company will kick 500-1000 players just because you say so ? Wake up. As long as you keep playing the game, CCP will not act. Why should they? Whiners will always exist and those 500-1000 accounts belong to PAYING customers.
And in the end, CCP just wants as many players as possible, that's why they've made a niche game that they like and only a smaller portion of the gamer base likes, instead of a generic EQ/WoW type game that would probably draw far more people(but suck ass), right?
Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 15:31:00 -
[69]
Again, utter rubbish.
*Anyone* can use the IP rights program to enforce their rights. There are just legal implications to doing so (like offering Ebay an absolute blanket cover against legal consequences of any which you don't point out to them) which mean some people and companies chose NOT to use it.
Also, there are sites besides ebay. As has been said. At least with Ebay you can track most of the flow...
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Wintermute Ashpool
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 16:05:00 -
[70]
Originally by: kieron
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui
Quote: You really think a company will kick 500-1000 players just because you say so ? Wake up. As long as you keep playing the game, CCP will not act. Why should they? Whiners will always exist and those 500-1000 accounts belong to PAYING customers.
blizzard do it every few months. they ban more than just a few thousand aswell. they banned 18,000 accounts about 3-4 months ago and so they are probably due for a mass ban again anytime soon.
Funny you should mention that, evidently Blizzard hit 5,400 players with the ban stick and levied temp bans on another 10,700 players within the past day or three. Their crime? "The use of third-party programs to farm gold and items."
As for CCP, we may not have the same community size that WoW has, but we do actively seek out and take action against macro'ers and RMT sellers, up to and including permanent bans. We just hit them in smaller batches (50-100 players upon an exhaustive investigation) and tend to not make announcements about it.
So what is the real problem with McMiners? There are plenty of legit miners who use the same techniques using real people and actually playing the game. So I'm guessing that the whole economic upset argument is out. So what is the real reason we hate these guys so much and want to see them banned? For me I guess the problem is that I imagine that McMiners just don't care about EvE, they only care about making money in any game. Instead of banning McMiners CCP should just tag them as kill on sight. Change their icon and flag rules to mimic belt rats. Let them continue to pay CCP for the accounts and mine systems dry but with the benefit of allowing anybody to toast them at will...ofc they could fire back but hey thats part of the phun. [tAMI] Online
400x120 12kb |
|
Naverin
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 16:09:00 -
[71]
See the thing is.. Stopping Ebay auctions will probably be the most notable Deterent then posting or saying how many people have been banned.
just putting a stop to probably the biggest Isk selling site (Ebay) will be a big deturrent and definatly make people think twice.
______________________ I am the carebear...
who doesnt use the "Correct Dread"
|
Evil Thug
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 16:28:00 -
[72]
It will be intresting to listen whining of players : "omg, i paid 300m for my shiny tempest". When you mined veld or scordite last time ? Personally i - in november 2003. There won`t be apocs for 96m. Want to build mothership ? Mine it by yourself. Or pay 4 x of production cost. Time of ppl, who will mine for you - cost even more.
People want to see only 1 side of the medal.
I playing in MMORPGs for around 8 years. And i learned to adapt. Will you be able to do so ? I doubt. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =) |
Naverin
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 16:31:00 -
[73]
I have 7 accounts.. nearly all in barges... I can pwn industry.. Im not worried
=) ______________________ I am the carebear...
who doesnt use the "Correct Dread"
|
D'onryu Shoqui
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 16:41:00 -
[74]
Quote: So what is the real problem with McMiners? There are plenty of legit miners who use the same techniques using real people and actually playing the game.
you do understand what a macro is right?
|
Evil Thug
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 16:41:00 -
[75]
7 accounts in barges - is nothing, compared to hundreds of "sfgaghfg", "bncncvnfhj" etc. Just try to mine for a dred, for example. Oh, you don`t want to do so ? Because it will be around 10 - 12 hours for all your accs, to mine low minerals. I bet, that you`d better mine arknor, or bistot.
Don`t get me wrong. I`m not defending that. People just need to realise what they are asking for. I remember myself buying apoc for 169m (before Shiva, when there were no ark\bist spawns at all). You want it ? Ok. Continue to ask. I hope that you will help CCP to fight against thousands of petitions, regarding "omg, how can newb afford to buy thorax for 50m". ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =) |
Full Impact
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 17:06:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Full Impact on 14/04/2006 17:07:12 This has probably not been thought of before, but its an idea I've had.
Why doesn't ccp sell isk on ebay? They could sell the isk a lot cheaper than current ebay rates, which means it'll drive down the farmers profits and on the plus side, anyone that actually buys it gets banned AFTER leaving good feedback for ccp making sure that isk isn't left ingame.
I know there are other places to buy isk, but surely ebay is one of the easiest.
"A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions" |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 17:08:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/04/2006 17:08:18 You do NOT want to go into the legal implications of that.
And again, scamming - which is what trading in bad faith is - is not tolerated by Ebay. They HAVE a program, use it or don't complain is their take.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
HippoKing
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 17:09:00 -
[78]
admittedly, that would be funny, but a HUGE can of worms. Lots of eBay sellers who provide cheap ISK, and then ban the buyers (after a short time period - say 1-2weeks) would really screw a lot of the market up, but i can't see it ever happening
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin Who pwned who? ~kieron |
Full Impact
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 17:17:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 14/04/2006 17:08:18 You do NOT want to go into the legal implications of that.
And again, scamming - which is what trading in bad faith is - is not tolerated by Ebay. They HAVE a program, use it or don't complain is their take.
Technically CCP will have honoured the auction by sending the isk, hence getting good feedback. What happens ingame after that would have nothing to do with Ebay. There's no way of the banned player of knowing for sure whether the person they bought isk from is actually CCP or not.
Would it affect the market? More than likely not if that isk is then removed by banning the player. The only situation I can think of it possibly affecting the market is if the isk is bought and then given away before the ban comes into force.
"A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions" |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 17:18:00 -
[80]
Technically it's still legally bad faith
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
|
Phoenix Jones
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 17:18:00 -
[81]
You understand that MMORPG item selling is a multi million dollar business.
I believe there was a study done on EQ when it was in its prime. Its economy was somewhere around the 70th largest economy on the planet (beat russia)
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-823260.html
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/info_and_tech/game_theories.htm
Its a job that requires no actual training (cept for power leveling, camping and farming).
|
Morrigan LeFay
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 18:02:00 -
[82]
Ogre to Slay? Outsource It To Chinese New York Times, The (NY) December 9, 2005
"That has spawned the creation of hundreds -- perhaps thousands -- of online gaming factories here in China. By some estimates, there are well over 100,000 young people working in China as full-time gamers, toiling away in dark Internet cafes, abandoned warehouses, small offices and private homes." ... "'What we're seeing here is the emergence of virtual currencies and virtual economies,' says Peter Ludlow, a longtime gamer and a professor of philosophy at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. 'People are making real money here, so these games are becoming like real economies.'" A side note: Ludlow was kicked off 'The Sims' because he was writing a virtual newspaper that uncovered some of the seamier aspects of the game. Sony would dispute that, of course. ... "...there are factories all over China. In central Henan Province, one factory has 300 computers. At another factory in western Gansu Province, the workers log up to 18 hours a day."
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 18:23:00 -
[83]
Given TSO is EA...accurate more!
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
bsspewer
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 18:52:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 13/04/2006 23:43:16 4.The amount of money and extensive networks of alts that Naal Morno, Khatred (well known figures in eve economy) and to a lesser extent resellers like me move is staggering.
Naal Morno has no alts...
|
TOR 28369
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 20:54:00 -
[85]
FACT of the matter is some people love eve but have a LIFE, WORK being one of them. some people have more MONEY then TIME. what do you all suggest the part time gamer does to have fun in eve, i mean say you only can get online 2-6 hours a weekend 8-28 hours a month and you enjoy pvp, that said player can make enough isk in game with the time he has? i think not, making isk in this game is a time consuming son of a biatch and i say ccp should sell in game items themselves and not ban them. if ccp was to ban all eve related items and people that buy them they will only be shooting themselves in the foot by chasing alot of loyal monthly eve payments out the door..
|
Jinx Barker
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 21:02:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 14/04/2006 21:03:25
Originally by: TOR 28369 FACT of the matter is some people love eve but have a LIFE, WORK being one of them. some people have more MONEY then TIME. what do you all suggest the part time gamer does to have fun in eve, i mean say you only can get online 2-6 hours a weekend 8-28 hours a month and you enjoy pvp, that said player can make enough isk in game with the time he has? i think not, making isk in this game is a time consuming son of a biatch and i say ccp should sell in game items themselves and not ban them. if ccp was to ban all eve related items and people that buy them they will only be shooting themselves in the foot by chasing alot of loyal monthly eve payments out the door..
We already have that, CCP allows GTC sales for ISK, thats real money for ISK. I also noticed that E-bay sellers have quickly adjusted their prices to reflect eve auctions of GTC, since, for obvious reasons, they started to loose sales.
However, the Item Sellers are still on top in E-bay, for whatever reason the ISK for RL cash via CCP deal did not strike them as bad as ISK sellers.
Either way, this is an ongoing problem, if I was to buy ISK or Items, I much rather buy it from CCP then from E-Bay. It is legal, so far, using game time codes (however, it would seem, many in EVE community frown on it, for one reason or another).
|
TOR 28369
|
Posted - 2006.04.14 21:15:00 -
[87]
Edited by: TOR 28369 on 14/04/2006 21:18:31 Edited by: TOR 28369 on 14/04/2006 21:16:57
Originally by: Jinx Barker
Originally by: TOR 28369 FACT of the matter is some people love eve but have a LIFE, WORK being one of them. some people have more MONEY then TIME. what do you all suggest the part time gamer does to have fun in eve, i mean say you only can get online 2-6 hours a weekend 8-28 hours a month and you enjoy pvp, that said player can make enough isk in game with the time he has? i think not, making isk in this game is a time consuming son of a biatch and i say ccp should sell in game items themselves and not ban them. if ccp was to ban all eve related items and people that buy them they will only be shooting themselves in the foot by chasing alot of loyal monthly eve payments out the door..
We already have that, CCP allows GTC sales for ISK, thats real money for ISK. I also noticed that E-bay sellers have quickly adjusted their prices to reflect eve auctions of GTC, since, for obvious reasons, they started to loose sales.
However, the the Item Sellers are still on top in E-bay, for whatever reason the ISK for RL cash via CCP deal did not strike them as bad as ISK sellers.
Either way, this is an ongoing problem, if I was to buy ISK or Items, I much rather buy it from CCP then from E-Bay. It is legal, so far, using game time codes.
Yes time codes is a good way to make isk but at times take time to sell, and if every gamer that needed isk with rl money did it the time code way there would be so many time codes that it would take alot of time to sell them and the return isk wise would go down the toilet. CCP sell isk and the problem will be solved and on top of that you will make alot more money yourselves. this is after all a biz you are running to make rl money. And i think the eve items with rl cash only bothers the kid on his parents pc or the old lazy bumn sitting in his parents basement with no money and 12 hours a day to play eve either way its not gonna end with the game the way it is isk wise. ask any rich in game player how many hours a week he/she plays or played to obtain the wealth and there lies the problem. the game of eve is not like other games where you die and loose nothing making it the best..
|
Jason Marshall
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 08:46:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Remedial Ebay are not legally accountable for players of an online game selling their accounts in violation of a private EULA agreement. Ebay isn't even facilitating illegal activity. People breaking Eve's EULA are not breaking the law, they are breaking a private contract with CCP to abide by certain rules in return for being allowed to play the game.
Now if there was a law on the books someplace that said that CCP had the right to sue Ebay for damages in the event Ebay facilitated a transaction detrimental to CCP, there might be some legal grounding. But as far as I know, there is no such law in either America or Iceland.
Breach of contract (if you have proof noth the parties agreed to said contract is againts teh law and punishable by fines/restitution...
|
Wintermute Ashpool
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 09:34:00 -
[89]
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui
Quote: So what is the real problem with McMiners? There are plenty of legit miners who use the same techniques using real people and actually playing the game.
you do understand what a macro is right?
Is that when a 3rd party program is used to control the EvE client in such a fasion as to not need the input of a human operator? Jes? No?
[tAMI] Online
400x120 12kb |
Daddy's Princess
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 10:19:00 -
[90]
Point 1.) I think you'd be rather surprised (or not if you have some clue) who the major movers and shakers on ebay are. I doubt it's really Mr Chang and his djdjhdsjk, bsdfksdfj, jhsdfkjdfy.... buddies :)
Point 2.) Like someone said, it could actually be pretty hard to track the flow of isk. Especially for legit traders.
Point 3.) Yes, it should start with buyers and all guilty parties (sellers and buyers) should have their character names named and shamed.
|
|
Slaveabuser
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 10:41:00 -
[91]
Originally by: kieron
We just hit them in smaller batches (50-100 players upon an exhaustive investigation) and tend to not make announcements about it.
You know when CCP announced the banning of those 80+ something accounts uhhh.... last year (was it?) the community was very positive towards it.
If you announce it we get the feeling that something is done and it will make us love father CCP even more.
Killing the Minmatars since 22480 AD |
Paxam Leratharn
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 10:43:00 -
[92]
Removing ISK and in-game item sales from EBAY wouldn't stop the market. There are plenty of other sites out there that sell ingame ISK and accounts and items, as anyone who's visited an EVE site that has GoogleAds will know.
It also wouldn't stop people selling macro guides, exploits and other things on Ebay, as these are no the intellectual property of CCP, but of the people who wrote them.
|
Slaveabuser
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 10:46:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Paxam Leratharn Removing ISK and in-game item sales from EBAY wouldn't stop the market. There are plenty of other sites out there that sell ingame ISK and accounts and items, as anyone who's visited an EVE site that has GoogleAds will know.
Yes, and?
Quote:
It also wouldn't stop people selling macro guides, exploits and other things on Ebay, as these are no the intellectual property of CCP, but of the people who wrote them.
And?
Killing the Minmatars since 22480 AD |
Wintermute Ashpool
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 10:49:00 -
[94]
As with anything that draws income the incintive will never go away. Look at the drug trade in RL. Its great that CCP does what they do and I still say they flag anyone caught so that the perp appears as a rat and is interactable just like any other rat. If you can't beat em make em podable. [tAMI] Online
400x120 12kb |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 14:22:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Wintermute Ashpool As with anything that draws income the incintive will never go away. Look at the drug trade in RL. Its great that CCP does what they do and I still say they flag anyone caught so that the perp appears as a rat and is interactable just like any other rat. If you can't beat em make em podable.
Yes, let's. The war on drugs has done a LOT of damage to a lot of perfectly innocent people and done absolutely nothing to reduce the quantities of drugs flowing into America.
Trying to ban Human Nature never works.
*sighs*
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Kunming
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 14:34:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Maya Rkell ... Also, unfortuately, forcing ebay to shut down sales has had, in other MMO's, little or no effect on the volume of secondary market trade...the selling shifts to other websites and suppliers where players are more easily scammed.
Exactly and wouldnt that discourage ppl from buying ISK in the first place?
|
Copine Callmeknau
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 14:35:00 -
[97]
Like others have suggested, CCP should sell ISK on eBay for cheap, send buyers the ISK, and then ban the accounts that buy it.
I doubt this is against any laws, people get what they paid for.
On top of getting rid of what is imo cheaters, CCP squeeze a little bit of extra cash out of them when they sell the ISK
-------
With five million sheep in this army I seem to be the only one fit to command
|
Guth
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 14:36:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Guth on 15/04/2006 14:41:29
Originally by: Paxam Leratharn Removing ISK and in-game item sales from EBAY wouldn't stop the market. There are plenty of other sites out there that sell ingame ISK and accounts and items, as anyone who's visited an EVE site that has GoogleAds will know.
It also wouldn't stop people selling macro guides, exploits and other things on Ebay, as these are no the intellectual property of CCP, but of the people who wrote them.
So you're saying that since it wont be a 100% success ration, there is not point in doing it?
Seriously, whats wrong with people like you, why do you have to be so negative?? Even a 20% decrease in isk selling is better than ZERO percent decrease!!
Then maybe after they have stopped Ebay from selling isk, they can concentracte on the remaining markets for it?
Very few things in the world happen in either 100% or 0% increments you know. I am sure CCP is aware that they wont get it all away by doing that. From the original posters statement it looks like all they would have to do was send over some offical documents or something verifying that "yes we want the isk sale to stop, as we own the game", and ebay would police itself.
But in your view they shouldnt do that, even if it just made 10% of the sellers have to relocate their shops, because it wont stop it 100%?
Sheesh..
Factoid: Something fictitious that is presented as fact, devised especially to gain publicity and accepted because of constant repetition |
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 14:39:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: Maya Rkell ... Also, unfortuately, forcing ebay to shut down sales has had, in other MMO's, little or no effect on the volume of secondary market trade...the selling shifts to other websites and suppliers where players are more easily scammed.
Exactly and wouldnt that discourage ppl from buying ISK in the first place?
The evidence is, no. Also, getting scammed loses you customers. *shrugs* (Yes, I am very very cynical about this)
Copine Callmeknau, it is against the Ebay ToS and they WILL sue. This is not a theoretical knowledge either...a small MMO I was involved in had to backpeddle very quickly and still got the offending accounts banned.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Ob Noxious
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 14:52:00 -
[100]
It would seem to me that a fairly easy solution to the Ebay Isk / items sellers would be for CCP to put items and Isk in their storefront.
Want to fly that shiny new widget? Got all the skills trained, but your wallet is drained? Well now you can! For only $14.95 it can be yours today! Stop by the eve-o store right away!
Anyway, at least CCP would get the revenues from it, and those with limited play-time could still benefit.
|
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 14:56:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 15/04/2006 14:58:32 That's also inflationary and bad for the Eve economy, as well as being highly unpopular with many people, even a lot of people like me who think that *****ing down on Ebay is counter-productive.
Ebay is not IGE. IGE are bad. Giving IGE more busines is bad.
Koba Kyogen, no, there is no "legal precident" and never was any court involved... there is an program which Ebay set up some years ago which ANY rights owner, big or small, can use to have items with their IP in removed. However, there are certain legal implications of using it which prevent some companies from using the program.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Koba Kyogen
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 14:56:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Naverin Granted I can try and report every eve-online isk auction and some will probably get removed but theres 100's more being made..
None will be removed. They condone the sale of virtual items, there's nothing in ebay's TOS or EULA that forbids violating Eve's EULA and the only reason you'll get it removed is if they're selling something you own the rights to. You aren't CCP, so you don't own the rights to what's being sold and ebay won't do a thing about anything you report. There's even an established section for Eve Online sales.
As I understand it, if CCP simply officially ask for Eve sales to be removed and disallowed, they will comply. I'm wondering if they've attempted this.
Sorry, not this time.
EBay absolutely will take down those auctions if the studio asks them to. It's established law at this point with Sony and their prior action. Once that legal pandora's box is open, you can't go back. Any court precedent, particularly Sony, is like the legal "i win button".
Koba
|
Paxam Leratharn
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 15:13:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Slaveabuser
Yes, and?
And so, asking Ebay to remove ISK auction from their website will have little to no effect on the ISK for RL Money trade. It will merely make the websites that sell ISK more profitable, as people who buy ISK don't generally do it because they happen to see it advertised on Ebay. It is not an impulse buy.
|
Paxam Leratharn
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 15:19:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Guth
Seriously, whats wrong with people like you, why do you have to be so negative?? Even a 20% decrease in isk selling is better than ZERO percent decrease!!
A 20% decrease would be a great result, but what you'll actually find is a 0% decrease.
People who buy ISK will do so whether over Ebay or some other site. I don't think anyone's ever just "happened" by EVE ISK on Ebay when browsing it. I know I never have, and I use Ebay a lot to buy books and music. People who buy ISK off Ebay will just go somewhere else if they can't find it. There'll be no decrease in sales.
And asking "what's wrong with people like me"... Well... people like you are. People who assume they know someone elses point.
|
Koba Kyogen
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 15:41:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Koba Kyogen on 15/04/2006 15:42:39 EDIT: not worth it
|
Naverin
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 15:59:00 -
[106]
Mods can you please close my thread at your earliest convience. My idea was presented.. its been forward to the appropriate people.
Dont need everyone carrying out tangents on isk selling /sales /ebay/ i dont care
Thanks ______________________ I am the carebear...
who doesnt use the "Correct Dread"
|
Guth
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 16:42:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Paxam Leratharn
Originally by: Guth
Seriously, whats wrong with people like you, why do you have to be so negative?? Even a 20% decrease in isk selling is better than ZERO percent decrease!!
A 20% decrease would be a great result, but what you'll actually find is a 0% decrease.
People who buy ISK will do so whether over Ebay or some other site. I don't think anyone's ever just "happened" by EVE ISK on Ebay when browsing it. I know I never have, and I use Ebay a lot to buy books and music. People who buy ISK off Ebay will just go somewhere else if they can't find it. There'll be no decrease in sales.
And asking "what's wrong with people like me"... Well... people like you are. People who assume they know someone elses point.
It is easier to trust big "legal looking" sites like Ebay, than smaller sites that only sell IP for MMOs. So some people wont trust their credit cards etc to such small sites.
So even if everyone who uses ebay finds another place to buy (which i dont agree with you that they will.. Buying IP for real life money is laziness. Lazy people tend to try for fast solutions..) some still might not USE these new sites because of the above stated reason. Thus, a small percentage decrease will happen even in the worst case scenario, and therefore CCP should do this.
Factoid: Something fictitious that is presented as fact, devised especially to gain publicity and accepted because of constant repetition |
TOR 28369
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 20:34:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Guth
Originally by: Paxam Leratharn
Originally by: Guth
Seriously, whats wrong with people like you, why do you have to be so negative?? Even a 20% decrease in isk selling is better than ZERO percent decrease!!
A 20% decrease would be a great result, but what you'll actually find is a 0% decrease.
People who buy ISK will do so whether over Ebay or some other site. I don't think anyone's ever just "happened" by EVE ISK on Ebay when browsing it. I know I never have, and I use Ebay a lot to buy books and music. People who buy ISK off Ebay will just go somewhere else if they can't find it. There'll be no decrease in sales.
And asking "what's wrong with people like me"... Well... people like you are. People who assume they know someone elses point.
It is easier to trust big "legal looking" sites like Ebay, than smaller sites that only sell IP for MMOs. So some people wont trust their credit cards etc to such small sites.
So even if everyone who uses ebay finds another place to buy (which i dont agree with you that they will.. Buying IP for real life money is laziness. Lazy people tend to try for fast solutions..) some still might not USE these new sites because of the above stated reason. Thus, a small percentage decrease will happen even in the worst case scenario, and therefore CCP should do this.
Buying isk is laziness you sir are a moron guess ill say it again, SOME PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO SIT ON EVE HOUR AFTER HOUR DAY AFTER DAY TO BE COMPETITIVE IN GAME. eve is a time sink, and time after all is money for me atleast. some people trade hours of there life to get that bs which is fine, someone paying for it also trades hours of there life work wise i guess. NONE OF YOU HAVE A SOLUTION FOR THE PART TIME EVE GAMER THAT PAYS THE MONTHLY FOR EVE ALSO BUT HAVE A LIFE SO CANT SIT ON EVE EVERY DAY AND MAKE ISK, ANY SOLUTIONS FOR THAT? TIME CODES ARENT A SOLUTION, IF EVERY ISK BUYER USED TIME CODES THE FORUM WOULD BE FLOODED WITH THEM AND BE WORTHLESS.but i can see where the no life play eve everyday all day getting rich and powerful guy would be upset by someone playing 2-3 hours a week because they have a life having just as much or more in game thanks to not being a broke bumn in rl
|
TOR 28369
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 20:47:00 -
[109]
Originally by: TOR 28369 Edited by: TOR 28369 on 15/04/2006 20:43:29 Edited by: TOR 28369 on 15/04/2006 20:38:37
Originally by: Guth
Originally by: Paxam Leratharn
Originally by: Guth
Seriously, whats wrong with people like you, why do you have to be so negative?? Even a 20% decrease in isk selling is better than ZERO percent decrease!!
A 20% decrease would be a great result, but what you'll actually find is a 0% decrease.
People who buy ISK will do so whether over Ebay or some other site. I don't think anyone's ever just "happened" by EVE ISK on Ebay when browsing it. I know I never have, and I use Ebay a lot to buy books and music. People who buy ISK off Ebay will just go somewhere else if they can't find it. There'll be no decrease in sales.
And asking "what's wrong with people like me"... Well... people like you are. People who assume they know someone elses point.
It is easier to trust big "legal looking" sites like Ebay, than smaller sites that only sell IP for MMOs. So some people wont trust their credit cards etc to such small sites.
So even if everyone who uses ebay finds another place to buy (which i dont agree with you that they will.. Buying IP for real life money is laziness. Lazy people tend to try for fast solutions..) some still might not USE these new sites because of the above stated reason. Thus, a small percentage decrease will happen even in the worst case scenario, and therefore CCP should do this.
Buying isk is laziness you sir are a moron guess ill say it again, SOME PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO SIT ON EVE HOUR AFTER HOUR DAY AFTER DAY TO BE COMPETITIVE IN GAME. eve is a time sink, and time after all is money for me atleast. some people trade hours of there life to get that bs which is fine, someone paying for it also trades hours of there life work wise i guess. NONE OF YOU HAVE A SOLUTION FOR THE PART TIME EVE GAMER THAT PAYS THE MONTHLY FOR EVE ALSO BUT HAVE A LIFE SO CANT SIT ON EVE EVERY DAY AND MAKE ISK, ANY SOLUTIONS FOR THAT? TIME CODES ARENT A SOLUTION, IF EVERY ISK BUYER USED TIME CODES THE FORUM WOULD BE FLOODED WITH THEM AND BE WORTHLESS. but i can see where the no life play eve everyday all day getting rich and powerful guy would be upset by someone playing 2-3 hours a week because they have a life having just as much or more in game thanks to not being a broke bumn in rl p.s i love being able to be lazy in life and having the money to spend on a game if i feel the need with no problem laziness is bliss it will load your wallet up
|
Slaveabuser
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 21:16:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Paxam Leratharn
And so, asking Ebay to remove ISK auction from their website will have little to no effect on the ISK for RL Money trade. It will merely make the websites that sell ISK more profitable, as people who buy ISK don't generally do it because they happen to see it advertised on Ebay. It is not an impulse buy.
I'm bored, I want what you are smoking.
Killing the Minmatars since 22480 AD |
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 21:18:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Guth
Originally by: Paxam Leratharn
Originally by: Guth
Seriously, whats wrong with people like you, why do you have to be so negative?? Even a 20% decrease in isk selling is better than ZERO percent decrease!!
A 20% decrease would be a great result, but what you'll actually find is a 0% decrease.
People who buy ISK will do so whether over Ebay or some other site. I don't think anyone's ever just "happened" by EVE ISK on Ebay when browsing it. I know I never have, and I use Ebay a lot to buy books and music. People who buy ISK off Ebay will just go somewhere else if they can't find it. There'll be no decrease in sales.
And asking "what's wrong with people like me"... Well... people like you are. People who assume they know someone elses point.
It is easier to trust big "legal looking" sites like Ebay, than smaller sites that only sell IP for MMOs. So some people wont trust their credit cards etc to such small sites.
You're right. And they know it. So they don't demand your credit card. They use PayPal.
So..that's pretty much a null objection these days, I'm afraid.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Watja Lukinat
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 22:26:00 -
[112]
actually, the "parts" of the game aren't intellectual property, only the game itself is. You can only not sell pirated copies of the game, courts have ruled against companies claiming intellectual property on individual entities ingame.
So, legally you can sell all the isk, etc you want to. But CCP also has the legal right to ban you for whatever reason they deem is violating their EULA. Of course you could take that to court, but most people who are involved in this would just creat a new account.
They way govts. look at this is, you're not actually selling items, you're selling a service, the service being they give you money. I know that sounds like an item, but it technically isn't.
So, you sell ISK, no legal probs, but you can get banned.
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 22:28:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Watja Lukinat actually, the "parts" of the game aren't intellectual property, only the game itself is. You can only not sell pirated copies of the game, courts have ruled against companies claiming intellectual property on individual entities ingame.
Link plz.
There has, afaik, been no ruling on this.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Wilfan Ret'nub
|
Posted - 2006.04.15 23:49:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Watja Lukinat actually, the "parts" of the game aren't intellectual property, only the game itself is. You can only not sell pirated copies of the game, courts have ruled against companies claiming intellectual property on individual entities ingame.
Link plz.
The link Scroll to page 3. Now select the appropriate reason.
Oh, you can't. The best option, even though rather contrived, would be to claim that people selling EVE ISK are abusing the EVE trademark (i.e. they're not trademark owners and are profiting from it and hurting the brand name). Worked for Easy Group and (IIRC) Mercedes. Even then, then the seller would just not mention EVE and still get all the hits as nobody is selling Iceland Kronas on Ebay.
Originally by: Maya Rkell There has, afaik, been no ruling on this.
Yep, this is another major problem. The reason for no ruling is that "IP laws" (copyright and patents) don't apply to MMORPG items, while trademark addresses the issue in a very roundabout way.
Disclaimer: IANAL, been to a few "IP law" seminars at the uni.
|
Aversin
|
Posted - 2006.04.16 00:15:00 -
[115]
Originally by: kieron Naverin, I'm honestly not sure if that is something the legal team has tried or not. I've brought your post to their attention, I hope this is something you are correct in.
Well I know when I tried to sell my runescape accout it was removed within 24 hours by jagex :).
Originally by: Razner Cerizo They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
|
Malthros Zenobia
|
Posted - 2006.04.16 16:50:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Naverin I have 7 accounts.. nearly all in barges... I can pwn industry.. Im not worried
=)
While I'm sure it's handy to churn out Isk with half a dozen barges while playing the game with one main account, that sounds hella boring, not to mention a waste of $90 a month...
Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Paxam Leratharn
|
Posted - 2006.04.18 08:32:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Slaveabuser
I'm bored, I want what you are smoking.
ú10/quarter, my friend.
I'll give you an ounce for ú60. :p
|
Usul Faust
|
Posted - 2006.04.18 09:40:00 -
[118]
stop smoking that nasty brown crap imo.
unless of course you get much cheaper skunk than me, In which case i'm crying real tears.
|
Naverin
|
Posted - 2006.05.05 18:58:00 -
[119]
So hey.. any news on this issue from the CCP legal team? ______________________ I am the carebear...
who doesnt use the "Correct Dread"
|
Jennifae
|
Posted - 2006.05.05 19:09:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Naverin So hey.. any news on this issue from the CCP legal team?
why are you still frothing at the mouth over this?
*cough* GTC *cough cough*
CCP, through legitimate GTC sales for isk, are probably doing more to undercut ebay than anything else they could probably do. I hope they realize the brilliance of their approach. GTC's result in more isk\per unit of currency and result in profit for CCP, not IGE\ebay. I can understand why people would be against GTC even. Those are individuals who have access to inordinate amounts of playtime that confers to them an ingame advangtage that they want to preserve by asking for even the removal of GTC for isk sales.
So the next time you start an ebay\GTC whine, ask yourself from the lovely confines of your mom's basement in your jobless state, how much advantage do YOU enjoy from IRL factors like being broke-a$$.
|
|
TylerJames
|
Posted - 2006.05.05 20:09:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
The war on drugs has done a LOT of damage to a lot of perfectly innocent people and done absolutely nothing to reduce the quantities of drugs flowing into America.
Trying to ban Human Nature never works.
*sighs*
Would you care to elaborate on this?
|
Maya Rkell
|
Posted - 2006.05.05 20:12:00 -
[122]
Originally by: TylerJames
Originally by: Maya Rkell
The war on drugs has done a LOT of damage to a lot of perfectly innocent people and done absolutely nothing to reduce the quantities of drugs flowing into America.
Trying to ban Human Nature never works.
*sighs*
Would you care to elaborate on this?
Certainly, here's a link. While I consider the man a hysteric on some issues, his take on the war on drugs is dead on.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Gaogan
|
Posted - 2006.05.05 20:21:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Watja Lukinat actually, the "parts" of the game aren't intellectual property, only the game itself is. You can only not sell pirated copies of the game, courts have ruled against companies claiming intellectual property on individual entities ingame.
So, legally you can sell all the isk, etc you want to. But CCP also has the legal right to ban you for whatever reason they deem is violating their EULA. Of course you could take that to court, but most people who are involved in this would just creat a new account.
They way govts. look at this is, you're not actually selling items, you're selling a service, the service being they give you money. I know that sounds like an item, but it technically isn't.
So, you sell ISK, no legal probs, but you can get banned.
Agreed. The term "Intellectual Property" legally refers to one of two things:
1) Creative works protected by copyright 2) Inventions protected by patent
In game currency or items are neither of these, so please stop refering to them as IP. There is absolutely nothing illegal about buying or selling isk, it's only a violation of the agreement between you and CCP, so they are entitled to ban your account.
And Sony got ebay to stop auctions of in game items because they paid them a large sum of money to do so, not because the law was on their side.
Stopping ebay does nothing, there are plenty of other sites where trading gones on. The only way to eliminate it is to diligently track down the macro farmers, the mules that transport the cash, and the buyers, and ban them.
|
TylerJames
|
Posted - 2006.05.05 21:03:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 05/05/2006 20:18:08
Originally by: TylerJames
Originally by: Maya Rkell
The war on drugs has done a LOT of damage to a lot of perfectly innocent people and done absolutely nothing to reduce the quantities of drugs flowing into America.
Trying to ban Human Nature never works.
*sighs*
Would you care to elaborate on this?
Certainly, here's a link. While I consider the man a hysteric on some issues, his take on the war on drugs is dead on.
Anyway,
GTC's have done a lot of "damage" to the ebay market, and even a good few of the websites which used to sell ISK are now selling GTC's. And this is all without trying to break Human nature or making anyone except IGE unhappy. IGE being unhappy is GOOD.
(Hi IGE Andraste!)
Sorry, but if you are linking to the story of the drug raid, I find it quite a stretch to refer to him as innocent...and an even further stretch to say the war on drugs has done nothing to stop the flow of drugs. But of course all that I just said is dependant upon if you are talking about that particular drug raid.
Just cause something is human nature does not make it beneficial to society or community either. As a matter of fact it can be the opposite.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page] |