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Tarpedo
Incursionista
1158
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Posted - 2014.02.09 15:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Not 2-3, but 20 PLEXes posted for sale for the same (lowest) price in 5 different systems around Jita within 10-15 seconds interval - obviously it's done either by the same person or bot. It happens when PLEX price is rising quickly. Similar situation happens with buy orders when price drop too quickly - suddenly someone is starting to buy PLEXes in hundreds way above highest "normal" buy order. I've noticed this in October and it's still happening.
How do you think - who is doing this and why? It looks like obvious and successful attempt to manipulate markets - but who may be interested in stabilization of PLEX prices? |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
153
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Posted - 2014.02.09 16:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
~3000 PLEX are traded per day in Jita, 20 isn't a lot. CCP have admitted that they interfere with the PLEX market though. .
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Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1996
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Posted - 2014.02.09 22:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP do sell PLEX from permabanned accounts (ones that are clearly beyond any appeals) on the market.
But it could also be someone taking profits as well. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
900V
Barkley Hemingway INC
27
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Posted - 2014.02.10 00:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:~3000 PLEX are traded per day in Jita, 20 isn't a lot. CCP have admitted that they interfere with the PLEX market though.
would appreciate a link to where they mentioned their intervention :) BOLD |
TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
186
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Posted - 2014.02.10 05:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
900V wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:~3000 PLEX are traded per day in Jita, 20 isn't a lot. CCP have admitted that they interfere with the PLEX market though. would appreciate a link to where they mentioned their intervention :)
Its in the Fanfest 2013 Economy talk in the official EVE youtube channel, google it ;) |
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1173
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Posted - 2014.02.10 10:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:CCP have admitted that they interfere with the PLEX market though. It seems my suspicion was correct and there is no free market for PLEX - just like it happens in actual economy with money printed to bailout banks.
Could be interesting to know - how exactly CCP calculated optimal PLEX price ~620mil ISK? Why isn't 300 or 1500mil? |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2636
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Posted - 2014.02.10 10:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
The plex that CCP use for easing aren't created from nothing. They've still been paid for. Just from banned accounts.
So the numbers are limited. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Adunh Slavy
1335
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Posted - 2014.02.10 11:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote: Could be interesting to know - how exactly CCP calculated optimal PLEX price ~620mil ISK? Why isn't 300 or 1500mil?
CCP is not concerned with the price, what they worry about is the rate of change in price. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
80
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Posted - 2014.02.10 13:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
PLEX is not the only item this has happened to, actually. I've noticed some very interesting order behavior with several items, consistent with the described manner. None of them as important as plex, of course, but it makes me wonder who has stacks of these things in random forge stations and the will to put up large amounts of small orders at prices lower than Jita sell... |
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1187
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Posted - 2014.02.10 14:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:So the numbers are limited. PLEX numbers may be limited but prices aren't. CCP doesn't have to follow "deal must be profitable" rule with banned accounts. I've seen 5x100 buying orders (allegedly from CCP) with prices higher than in orders from (allegedly) actual players. You want to buy PLEX for market price? Nope, have to do it for price dictated by (allegedly) CCP. |
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virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
65
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Posted - 2014.02.10 15:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:The plex that CCP use for easing aren't created from nothing. They've still been paid for. Just from banned accounts.
So the numbers are limited.
Whilst this MAY be true we have only the word of CCP for that. Also CCP made the comment in a historical sense - CCP said that they had used PLEX from banned accounts. Any assumption that CCP still has spare confiscated PLEX is just that an assumption. I think it fair to say that CCP will probably use confiscated PLEX whilst they have stocks, but what if/when they run out?
Nowhere to the best of my knowledge has CCP made any public commitment that they will not generate PLEX out of thin air if they feel that it becomes necessary. Should CCP in the future ( or already have ) run out of confiscated PLEX CCP has no publicly stated position.
In my opinion they CCP probably already run out a few months ago and are printing PLEX out of thin air. There is of course economic benefit to CCP not thin airing PLEX - each PLEX represents hard real life cash paid to CCP, printing them prints game time without corresponding revenue. I think however that CCP has to juggle many factors when it comes to PLEX/ISK exchange that go beyond this simplicity. As the PLEX price in ISK rises there may be danger of players who convert ISK to game time find Eve less and less easy to pay for. PLEX prices rising too high could see those players leave because they can only afford to play Eve by paying in ISK. Less damaging than thin airing PLEX is PLEX sales where the real life cost of PLEX drop. We have seen quite a few of these recently and those sales look to me they are evidence that CCP is trying to keep the PLEX ISK exchange rate from running away too fast. The PLEX sales appeal to two customers, those on a budget, and those with oodles of spare real life cash to blow on purples for other people to explode. I also think that Somer Blink bonus credit change ( Blink no longer allowed to give bonus credit for buying game time codes through Markee Dragon ) caused a spike in the PLEX that has yet to shake itself out. I know quite a few people who took big advantage of the 7 day grace period to stock up on large quantities of GTCs ( PLEX by another name ) and turn the grace bonus ( 1 Billion Blink credit per 60 day GTC ) into even more PLEX than they paid for as GTCs. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1644
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Posted - 2014.02.10 15:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:The plex that CCP use for easing aren't created from nothing. They've still been paid for. Just from banned accounts.
So the numbers are limited. This would be perplexing if true, as there is no reason to sell those plex in the first place instead of deleting them.
Or is CCP trying to actively avoid price spikes out of a fear of pricing those who plex their accounts out of the game?
There is literally no reason for CCP to create plex to sell on the market for isk, as this is money out of their pocket. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
439
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Posted - 2014.02.10 18:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote: I think it fair to say that CCP will probably use confiscated PLEX whilst they have stocks, but what if/when they run out?
I do not think CCP will easily run out of confiscated PLEX. The banning of accounts is continuous process, though at a slower pace than when the anti-RMT drives were active.
And yes, I admit it. It was me who set up those orders, for reasons that may remain cloudy for a while.
Any colour you like. |
900V
Barkley Hemingway INC
28
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Posted - 2014.02.10 22:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
TheSmokingHertog wrote:900V wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:~3000 PLEX are traded per day in Jita, 20 isn't a lot. CCP have admitted that they interfere with the PLEX market though. would appreciate a link to where they mentioned their intervention :) Its in the Fanfest 2013 Economy talk in the official EVE youtube channel, google it ;)
LOL thanks there , i just wanted to shed some light on the "honesty" of ccp.I posted this thread earlier and looky what i got as a reply from ISD https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=316128&p=2 , i suppose he doesn't play/knows anyhting about eve. BOLD |
Arec Bardwin
1274
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Posted - 2014.02.10 22:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:~3000 PLEX are traded per day in Jita, 20 isn't a lot. CCP have admitted that they interfere with the PLEX market though.
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:CCP do sell PLEX from permabanned accounts (ones that are clearly beyond any appeals) on the market.
But it could also be someone taking profits as well. CCP actually do this? I'm quite surprised actually. One of the main selling ponts of this game is the player driven market. Not so much any more it seems.
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TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
187
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Posted - 2014.02.10 23:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:~3000 PLEX are traded per day in Jita, 20 isn't a lot. CCP have admitted that they interfere with the PLEX market though. Sabriz Adoudel wrote:CCP do sell PLEX from permabanned accounts (ones that are clearly beyond any appeals) on the market.
But it could also be someone taking profits as well. CCP actually do this? I'm quite surprised actually. One of the main selling ponts of this game is the player driven market. Not so much any more it seems.
Maybe you should watch the youtube stream and hear out the reasoning of CCP and the way the CSM and CCP handled it. Also, do you know what happens to banking systems without a central bank? They spin out of control. When the goons found about the flaws in the FW mechanics, the market could not function properly. The player driven market has never been disturbed, just saved from disproportional imbalance, think rampant inflation. This inflation would put a lot of people out of business all over EVE. Would that spiral have head on, the EVE economy would have collapsed, collapsed hard. Possibly dragging the game-community with it, and subscriber ratings behind that.
Before you make judgments, know your stuff. |
Adunh Slavy
1336
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 00:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote: Whilst this MAY be true we have only the word of CCP for that.
We have much more than that. CCP is a business, their goal is to make a profit.
Create PLEX out of thin air and in effect give away game time, or have $15.
Truth is self evident.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1191
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Posted - 2014.02.11 02:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
TheSmokingHertog wrote:Also, do you know what happens to banking systems without a central bank? They spin out of control. You should know - exactly the same thing happens when there is central bank. I've seen 75% currency devaluation by central bank - during single week. Repeat that 4 times during 10 years. In a country which is considered one of the world's leaders. Another example, more fresh, from US: treasury created 2-7 trillions USD to bail out banks. No wonder crypto-currencies gain value like there is no tomorrow - they have one huge advantage against traditional/national currencies: politics cannot create them out of thin air.
I'm afraid CCP (may) act like US treasury. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2019
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 03:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP's main interventions into the market are promoting PLEX discounts when prices are higher. The banned account sales are small beer in comparison. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1191
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Posted - 2014.02.11 03:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:CCP's main interventions into the market are promoting PLEX discounts when prices are higher. The banned account sales are small beer in comparison. I'm afraid that isn't all. I've seen attempt of PLEX to climb beyond 650mil in October - and it was suppressed by massive injections of cheap PLEXes around Jita. When PLEX tried to drop below 590mil after sales and Blink-gate - drop was stopped by multiple 100 PLEX buying orders above "actual" market price. |
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Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
117
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Posted - 2014.02.11 09:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
You all forget that there are entities out there with enormous ISK reserves, e.g. Somer Blink, CFC, PL, NC., even some single players have trillions in ISK. Especially Somer Blink is/was heavily invested in PLEX, see the donation drive PHILIPPINES TYPHOON RELIEF. I can't remember how many PLEX Somer donated, the number in my head is 3000 PLEX.
Anyway, there are enough entities "playing" in the PLEX market with different interests. |
Arec Bardwin
1274
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 10:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
TheSmokingHertog wrote: Maybe you should watch the youtube stream and hear out the reasoning of CCP and the way the CSM and CCP handled it. Also, do you know what happens to banking systems without a central bank? They spin out of control. When the goons found about the flaws in the FW mechanics, the market could not function properly. The player driven market has never been disturbed, just saved from disproportional imbalance, think rampant inflation. This inflation would put a lot of people out of business all over EVE. Would that spiral have head on, the EVE economy would have collapsed, collapsed hard. Possibly dragging the game-community with it, and subscriber ratings behind that.
Could be hugely entertaining in its own way
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Qalix
Long Jump.
110
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Posted - 2014.02.12 16:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP has interfered in teh PLEX market only once. They tell the CSM when they do it too. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2041
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Posted - 2014.02.13 22:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:CCP's main interventions into the market are promoting PLEX discounts when prices are higher. The banned account sales are small beer in comparison. I'm afraid that isn't all. I've seen attempt of PLEX to climb beyond 650mil in October - and it was suppressed by massive injections of cheap PLEXes around Jita. When PLEX tried to drop below 590mil after sales and Blink-gate - drop was stopped by multiple 100 PLEX buying orders above "actual" market price.
That could easily be Mynnna, who has stated that he has ~3 trillion in assets and a large amount of that in PLEX. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Tarpedo
Incursionista
1236
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 22:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
There is only one reason I could imagine for these orders (besides market manipulations by devs): traps for ganking. But it won't work with orders created in 5 different systems at once - you'll need 5 fleets instead of 1.
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:That could easily be Mynnna, who has stated that he has ~3 trillion in assets and a large amount of that in PLEX. There is no reason for a person whose assets are in PLEX to hold its growth. And there is no reason for a person to buy PLEXes above market price when prices are falling. All of this is done *around* Jita so orders hang there for a long time and work as an anchor for people who are trying to create sell/buy orders. Prices may differ by as much as 3mill ISK which is unimaginable for normal market with its 0.01 ISK games. |
Divine Entervention
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2014.02.14 00:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Well, this is a good time to speculate an increase in demand.
We're coming up on the 1 month anniversary of the Titanacolyspse that was pretty well broadcasted, and got alot of new people to join and older people to resubscribe.
The time up to and right after the 1 month anniversary will see more than usual people buying plex. |
Zappity
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
823
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
From CSM8 minutes regarding CCP intervention:
"Mynnna asked about PLEX price goals, and both Dr. EyjoG and Recurve confirmed that the goal with the PLEX market is to prevent dramatic changes, not to maintain any particular price. PLEX prices divided by number of subscriptions is a much flatter graph, indicating that increased account numbers drive a lot of demand." Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Gimme more Cynos
Du nervst geh sterben
143
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Posted - 2014.02.16 21:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:CCP's main interventions into the market are promoting PLEX discounts when prices are higher. The banned account sales are small beer in comparison. I'm afraid that isn't all. I've seen attempt of PLEX to climb beyond 650mil in October - and it was suppressed by massive injections of cheap PLEXes around Jita. When PLEX tried to drop below 590mil after sales and Blink-gate - drop was stopped by multiple 100 PLEX buying orders above "actual" market price.
For sure it has to be CCP and not one/some clever trader/s with an interest to keep prices at a certain level.... that's way to unreasonable to consider... sure.
BOOH CCP.. BOOOH! |
Marsan
Caldari Provisions
207
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Posted - 2014.02.18 04:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Not to mention if CCP wants to influence the plex market they just have to increase real world prices or do a plex sale. Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a hopeful small portion of the community. |
Claire Voyant
146
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Posted - 2014.02.19 12:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:There is only one reason I could imagine for these orders (besides market manipulations by devs): traps for ganking. But it won't work with orders created in 5 different systems at once - you'll need 5 fleets instead of 1. Sabriz Adoudel wrote:That could easily be Mynnna, who has stated that he has ~3 trillion in assets and a large amount of that in PLEX. There is no reason for a person whose assets are in PLEX to hold its growth. And there is no reason for a person to buy PLEXes above market price when prices are falling. All of this is done *around* Jita so orders hang there for a long time and work as an anchor for people who are trying to create sell/buy orders. Prices may differ by as much as 3mill ISK which is unimaginable for normal market with its 0.01 ISK games. Maybe it's the people in Jita with their 0.01 isk games that are the ones that need to be explained. If I list my PLEX order in Jita I will most likely get covered by a 0.01er in minutes. If I list it next door, it stays visible. Some people actually use PLEX instead of just trading them, and the PLEX don't need to be in Jita to be used. And heck, everytime I go to Jita I wake up next door anyways. |
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