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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
316
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 22:15:00 -
[91] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:Please tell me where in high sec you will see interceptors shotgunning anoms.
"Relative safety" may be high in certain areas or at certain times, but it is just that, relative. Compared to null, yes, hisec is "relatively" safer.
Logic ************. Do you speak it?
Edit: the only 'protection' one pays for in null is for infrastructure. Thinking you are paying for your overlords to keep you safer than hisec is exactly what an uninformed hisec dweller would think normal.
Really?
Wow, FA and MC and RED and IRON covering my ass at various points back in the day when I was blue to them, and goonswarms hot pursuit of me on several more recent occasions as a non blue intruding in their sov must have been my ******* imagination.
(say what you will about goons, they are generally attentive to intruders).
Either that or your alliance clearly sucks ass and your blues are not getting their monies worth.
In my case, and perhaps this is an anomaly, I've been killed far more often in high sec than null, despite frequently running back and forth between them.
I am the Walrus. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
165
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Posted - 2013.12.05 22:37:00 -
[92] - Quote
Posting in a stealth buff hisec exploration thread. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
476
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 23:18:00 -
[93] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote: Really?
Wow, FA and MC and RED and IRON covering my ass at various points back in the day when I was blue to them, and goonswarms hot pursuit of me on several more recent occasions as a non blue intruding in their sov must have been my ******* imagination.
(say what you will about goons, they are generally attentive to intruders).
Either that or your alliance clearly sucks ass and your blues are not getting their monies worth.
In my case, and perhaps this is an anomaly, I've been killed far more often in high sec than null, despite frequently running back and forth between them.
Ok, I'm fine with your little fantasy of the pvping overlords that are there to protect their serfs from any and all harm. Let's fantasize some more...
Nobody could ever slip a bomber or a wing of interceptors past the almighty overlords.
Oh, also every system is perma-scouted by people with their mouses hovering over local ready to report intruders to the instantly-responding home defence fleets.
There are no wormholes.
and...
You will never, not ever, have someone login inside the anomaly you just warped to.
Just so it's clear, after all that *facetious*: I am the hunter, and the hunted.
I undock in hi-sec to run a mission. Whatever 'risk' there is of other players interfering is entirely decided by me. Don't want to get ganked? Don't fit pimp. Don't want to be ninja'd? Don't shoot back. Don't want to be war-dec'd? Hop corp.).
I undock in null to run an anom, guess what? Other players can and will interfere with me.
If I don't want to be tackled I align. Dropping dps, lowering isk/hour. Risk/Reward.
If I choose not to align, it is because I am in a ship I am confident could 'blap' whatever tackle off the field before making a hasty exit. In other words I am preparing specifically for a situation, and should be rewarded for that. I am still taking a greater risk though. What if the pilot is really good/skilled or fit in a way my risk doesn't pay off?
However you look at it, risk mitigation is the name of the game in eve. Unfortunately, most players tend towards 'zero risk'; a concept that should not even exist. No matter what player tools are used by nullsec residents to mitigate risk, they are absolutely dwarfed by the NPC hand-holding that is concord/crimewatch/corp hopping. (forgot the faction navies but they are usually more help than hindrance to criminal types)
Because that's what it is, hand-holding. Take responsibility for your own actions in this game and you won't need anybody to hold your hand.
I have ratted in the same vindicator for two years through my good planning and decision making, not the crutch of hisec mechanics. Or the magical 'safety field' that you think nullsec power blocs present.
Before that, I escaped by the skin of my teeth countless times by good piloting, and have caught/been caught by countless others by good piloting. A good pilot will make the escape, a good pilot will make the tackle. If both pilots are good then things get interesting.
In hisec that dynamic is gone. Why should anyone even care about the place? Right, because it gives you risk-free isk by the fountain-full. Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation Boarderline Cartel
1434
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 01:01:00 -
[94] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:It's extremley fruistrating seeing this thread going into the old "high sec vs otherSec" areas.
I opened this topic with one thought in mind and it was explortion rewards in high sec vs other high sec activities.
And what did you expect?
You want better exploration rewards. There are places with much, much better exploration rewards already in the game. You change your playstyle and go find them. Don't expect them to change the game for you, and don't expect all of us to change to suit you. High sec should be nerfed more, in my opinion. There's far too much to do there.
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Bloodmyst Ranwar
Dark Miresa
17
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Posted - 2013.12.06 01:07:00 -
[95] - Quote
Well I don't know what everyones definition of "Starting Area" is and how that relates to the whole of "High Sec."
But in regards to "exploration," I would claim High Security space is the Starter Area for Exploration due to the low value items found. If you want to reach the "end-game of exploration" go to null sec or start running wormhole sites where the rewards are much greater.
EDIT: @ OP, I also think you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. You are comparing HighSec Exploration to other HighSec activites. When you also conder the bigger, scary, darker securities of space known as LowSec & NullSec, you will find the rewards from exploration can be much greater then what can be earned from Missions or Mining, be that if you mine or run missions in High/Low/Null Sec. Eve is just not all about High Sec. |
Harrison Tato
Outward Explorations
10
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Posted - 2013.12.06 01:14:00 -
[96] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:It's extremley fruistrating seeing this thread going into the old "high sec vs otherSec" areas.
I opened this topic with one thought in mind and it was explortion rewards in high sec vs other high sec activities. And what did you expect? You want better exploration rewards. There are places with much, much better exploration rewards already in the game. You change your playstyle and go find them. Don't expect them to change the game for you, and don't expect all of us to change to suit you. High sec should be nerfed more, in my opinion. There's far too much to do there.
Yeah, what OP expects people to read their posts before responding! This is EVE. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
373
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 04:24:00 -
[97] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:It's extremley fruistrating seeing this thread going into the old "high sec vs otherSec" areas.
I opened this topic with one thought in mind and it was explortion rewards in high sec vs other high sec activities.
o7
Didn't I reply to your post personally with my experiences with highsec exploration, and the amount of isk/hr I made, and with an elementary description of why you might not be making a lot of isk ?
Wasn't that equivalent or better than most people make mission running ?
Wasn't it close to incursions - which is a group activity and should be fairly rewarding in a multiplayer game, and could perhaps be better than a solo activity at peak given all the group overhead involved ?
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Mysttina
Alpha Spectres
7
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 04:26:00 -
[98] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: The idea that hisec must be restricted to being a "newbie area" is bad and wrong and should be put in a bag and drowned like a litter of unwanted inbred puppies.
I fully agree to this statement.
High-sec should not be treated as 'newbie area' IMHO, and should be given higher risk while keeping in theme of empire space/under law. Then we stop this 'less risk, less profit == high-sec' sentiment.
I also agree the average income from exploration in high-sec is pretty low, even less than mining sometimes. |
Shalashaska Adam
DubiousOnes
5
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 05:42:00 -
[99] - Quote
Incursions are where the high-sec combat pay is, 100m an hour casual, 200m an hour with the fast fleets, reliable. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
948
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 06:21:00 -
[100] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ?
You would think that people would be able to take the hint. It's so bad because CCP doesn't want you to stay in highsec grinding forever. It's their way of encouraging you to explore, take risks, and reap greater rewards for those risks. High sec is basically a "starter area" that is very badly abused by some players who refuse to ever leave it. So every once in a while, high sec rewards (especially mission rewards) are nerfed to try to discourage endless virtually risk free mission farming. Take a chance! You might like it. EvE is a multi-player game and you will need to interact with others and make friends if you want to survive outside of high sec. That's the whole point. This is not true at all. EvE survives only because of the people in highsec. Without the income from them EvE would have only around 15% of its subs. That's the percentage of people who are in null roughly including alts.
EvE IS a multi-player game, however multiplayer DOES NOT mean playing cooperatively. Boxing is a multiplayer sport, they hardly cooperate though do they.
You DO NOT have to make friends to survive outside of high sec. I make billions of isk per week, often billions per day in other peoples sov space.
I don't require, expect or care whether someone leaves high sec or not. I'm not paying their subscription and as far as I'm concerned they can do what they want in their game time.
Obviously the reason high has less value is that there are a lot more people there. If high was as profitable as low, wormhole or null the sheer numbers in high, 70% or so of subs would make any profits in null, WH or Low worthless. There has to be balance but it's definitely not IMO because the devs are trying to force players into low, null or WH or quit.
That would be entirely stupid business practice. |
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Nalelmir Ahashion
Viziam Amarr Empire
36
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Posted - 2013.12.06 08:41:00 -
[101] - Quote
some anti-HighSec warriors here are just hilarious... totally not the issue here yet the keep ignoring main post and main theme of this thread in order to post how high sec is newbie zone and how their e-peen is so big because they play somewhere else.
Hell, this mentality is wrong in so many ways... the game is volatile and dangerous no matter where you are.. get podded in 1.0 or 0.0 it's same resault at the end you are podded.
I was destroyed both in low and high sec and in both places a player must use his head and know what he's doing... it's not going to be safe to travel point a to point b if I'm above 0.5...
only difference between high sec and others is twofold.... 1. on high sec you get concord response for aggression so you got to know how to do it right. 2. new players starts inside high sec on academy stations, if new players would have started in neutral zone disconnected from high sec and then had to choose where to go from there you wouldn't think it's newbie zone.
yes, I prefer high sec but mostly because for my activities the rats I encounter are little more then rodents which needs to be squashed and not battleships etc... I got some specific gameplay style I learned to prefer and I enjoy from same as any other player got their own playstyle they like and enjoy from this is what sandbox is all about! hell if I wanted a game where everyone plays same way I would have gone to swtor or something but I'm not.
At any rate we are changing subject every two posts here and it's ridiculous, you would have thought that people which mastered Eve online complexity could manage to have a discussion on topic but instead we get behavior worst then lowliest trolls. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch |
Moneta Curran
Lunar Industries Ltd
227
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 09:59:00 -
[102] - Quote
The original question has been addressed to its fullest extent.
We have now turned our attention to exposing entitled carebears who can't even be arsed to tank their barge to handle a battleship rat.
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Ramona McCandless
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1273
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 11:48:00 -
[103] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:The original question has been addressed to its fullest extent.
We have now turned our attention to exposing entitled carebears who can't even be arsed to tank their barge to handle a battleship rat.
This
High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation Boarderline Cartel
1437
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 14:39:00 -
[104] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: only difference between high sec and others is twofold.... 1. on high sec you get concord response for aggression so you got to know how to do it right. 2. new players starts inside high sec on academy stations, if new players would have started in neutral zone disconnected from high sec and then had to choose where to go from there you wouldn't think it's newbie zone.
yes, I prefer high sec but
How can you "prefer" something when you've never even tried the alternative? How many years have you lived in low sec, or null sec? See the whole argument here is that most of us null sec dwellers started out living in high sec until we finally took the plunge. Then we discovered that EvE is a much, much richer experience than we originally thought. So we all have experience in high sec. You, on the other hand, what's your experience with nullsec? Which alliances have you been in, which regions have you lived in, etc?
Oh and by the way, "troll" does not mean "anyone who presents a point of view different to mine". If people really were trolling the mods would take care of it. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
488
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 14:41:00 -
[105] - Quote
Moneta Curran wrote:The original question has been addressed to its fullest extent.
We have now turned our attention to exposing entitled carebears who can't even be arsed to tank their barge to handle a battleship rat.
This is a good post. EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
479
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 15:03:00 -
[106] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:totally not the issue here yet the keep ignoring main post and main theme of this thread
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ? I mean I do mining get my plex and some goodies then do my exploration roaming just for the experience but rewards sucks.
Eram Fidard wrote:High security space is like a urine-infested kiddy pool. It's ultimately up to you whether to wallow there soaking up the electrolytes and diseases of every idiot thrashing around or chance the sharks and jellyfish for a proper swim.
Did I mention you're immortal? The only thing you lose can be easily acquired, and level of risk decided on before undocking.
But for some reason you ignore the wonderful open ocean.
Eram Fidard wrote:You want risk free isk? You reap what you sow.
Eram Fidard wrote:The only 'protection' one pays for in null is for infrastructure. Thinking you are paying for your overlords to keep you safer than hisec is exactly what an uninformed hisec dweller would think normal.
Ok, I'm fine with your little fantasy of the pvping overlords that are there to protect their serfs from any and all harm.
I don't think it's any coincidence that 10 minutes after posting this I was faced with (a) risk/reward decision ...When would that ever happen in hisec?
I summed up my posts since you clearly didn't read or understand them. Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
540
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 15:23:00 -
[107] - Quote
Hisec:
virtually risk free, no cloak required, can use whatever ship competition from other explorers results in racing all factions have valuable loot from 4/10 3/10 rewards are okay, less subject to competition. data/relic rewards vary by faction, plus cargoscanner lets you avoid wasting time on cans with <1m in loot all complexes are very fast to complete relative to any non-hisec exploration, either b/c of blitzing tactics or just low total HP of rats bounties and OPE value is negligible
I think hisec explo is in a good place right now. There's lots of stuff to do if you're just looking to do stuff, and the better rewards are also quite good. If you're not finding it worth your while, its probable that you're doing it efficiently, either in your overall approach and site selection, or in the way you've setup your ship and are running the sites. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
318
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 16:01:00 -
[108] - Quote
Ptraci wrote: . You, on the other hand, what's your experience with nullsec? Which alliances have you been in, which regions have you lived in, etc?
Dunno about him, but my experiences are Fountain, Curse, Outer Ring, GW, and WH space.
I've been allied with FA, Black Sun, and INDY, and been loosely affiliated with past war efforts by quite a few alliances either by contract or being commissioned by member corps I had history with to assist in some capacity. These include IRON, Foundation, Red, MC, and goonswarm.
My claim to nullsec fame is being the bright bulb who suggested to FA that they put nothing but guns and corp hangers on POS (at the time, POS had their guns inside the shield), creating the first of the 'Death Star' POS setups. At the time anti-POS strategy was to blockade the system until the POS ran out of fuel. This allowed them to put months of fuel in the POS, and proved so successful that CCP introduced dreadnoughts.
Personally I don't really have a preference and run between all areas on a regular basis. This is why I find the nullsec assertions that highsec is risk free and they're taking horrible risks when they undock in their covert ops cloaked, warp scram immune T3s and go ratting hilarious.
Eram Fidard wrote: I undock in hi-sec to run a mission. Whatever 'risk' there is of other players interfering is entirely decided by me. Don't want to get ganked? Don't fit pimp. Don't want to be ninja'd? Don't shoot back. Don't want to be war-dec'd? Hop corp.).
And pretend hard that suicides with hauler alts don't exist. Your 'advice' here is absolutely worthless in highsec. If someone if going to **** with you, they're going to **** with you
Eram Fidard wrote:I have ratted in the same vindicator for two years through my good planning and decision making, not the crutch of hisec mechanics. Or the magical 'safety field' that you think nullsec power blocs present.
The only 'crutch' I depend on is called Covert Ops Cloak. It's equally effective in nullsec as it is in high sec. And I use it in both places.
Eram Fidard wrote:A good pilot will make the escape, a good pilot will make the tackle. If both pilots are good then things get interesting.
While I find the idea that nullsec alliances have thus far only sent 'bad' pilots after my ass (with the exception of BoB) and only 'good' pilots to cover it appealing, I highly doubt it.
Eram Fidard wrote: I don't think it's any coincidence that 10 minutes after posting this I was faced with the risk/reward decision "do I warp off with this neutral in local who wasn't reported in intel" I chose to leave my 10mil worth of drones behind, and it turned out to be the right decision, since he was in a crow. When would that ever happen in hisec?
Doesn't. Because local is chock full of neutrals and you don't know they're hostile until they're already on your ass unless you have them id'd already..
I am the Walrus. |
March rabbit
True Horde
899
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 16:02:00 -
[109] - Quote
Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: the hacking mini game is nice but truly only way to fail it is on purpose, then some cans sprays around and if you had cargo scanner before you at least knows what and try to get first but well...
.....
so why exploration rewards on high sec so bad ?
add here big BALLOONS "SOMETHING IS HERE" pointing you to site in current system....
I think it's obvious: risk(effort)/reward.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Nuela
Beacon Light Corporation Beacon Light Alliance
197
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Posted - 2013.12.06 16:05:00 -
[110] - Quote
Lucille Werner wrote:Nabbed about 350m isk in sansha space last night, several DED sites and various escelations, Had to finish an escelation in low, but it doesnt seem that bad at all.
But the problem with Exploration is the same thing that plagues ECm and such.
Rng is a ****** mechanic ----> Exploration is rng
Reading Fail.
OP was talking about hisec. Please read the OP twice next time before you post.
:) |
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Felo Maxun
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 16:18:00 -
[111] - Quote
IF its the old risk vs reward argument, then increase the risk of some highsec sites, add level 4 equivalent sites that drop better loot. Just cause its in high sec dosnt mean it should be easy, it means the difficulties should be different, trading pvp for pve |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
318
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 18:23:00 -
[112] - Quote
Felo Maxun wrote:IF its the old risk vs reward argument, then increase the risk of some highsec sites, add level 4 equivalent sites that drop better loot. Just cause its in high sec dosnt mean it should be easy, it means the difficulties should be different, trading pvp for pve
Because according to the pro nullsec side, there is no risk to anything but other players and that PvP magically does not happen in high sec.
I am the Walrus. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
481
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 18:58:00 -
[113] - Quote
So you choose to pimp fit your ship and get ganked? Don't pimp your ship.
Take the risk of getting suicided, reap the rewards of missioning in a pimp ship. Working as intended. Still doesn't change the fact that a t2 fit is 100% safe from gankers. There is still reward for t2 fitting where is the risk?
No, you can't 'add risk' by introducing AI that will be reduced to a series of blitzing instructions within a day of being on sisi.
The only risks one takes in hisec are voluntary and 100% avoidable. Without exception. Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
481
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:01:00 -
[114] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Because according to the pro nullsec side, there is no risk to anything but other players and that PvP magically does not happen in high sec.
Name one isk fountain in hisec that cannot be accessed with zero risk. Just one, I dare you. Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
482
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:32:00 -
[115] - Quote
Last one I promise.
"Local chock full of neutrals"
They can't shoot you.
Wtf are you smoking? Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
482
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:33:00 -
[116] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Because according to the pro nullsec side, there is no risk to anything but other players and that PvP magically does not happen in high sec.
Name one isk fountain in hisec that cannot be accessed with zero risk. Just one, I dare you.
So I lied in the last post but I'm still waiting....
Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
541
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 19:49:00 -
[117] - Quote
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:Felo Maxun wrote:IF its the old risk vs reward argument, then increase the risk of some highsec sites, add level 4 equivalent sites that drop better loot. Just cause its in high sec dosnt mean it should be easy, it means the difficulties should be different, trading pvp for pve Because according to the pro nullsec side, there is no risk to anything but other players and that PvP magically does not happen in high sec.
In the context of exploration, they would be right. Aside from other players, there is no risk in hisec. In low/null explo, there is a varying amount of risk from the environment itself, which can be 100% reliably mitigated through proper planning, preparation, or skill. And they're also right that in the context of highsec exploration, non-consensual PVP does not exist. The only risks worth mentioning are from other players, and only then when outside of hisec.
Also no one rats or does nullsec DED's in cloaky nullified stabbed t3's. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
318
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:30:00 -
[118] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote: The only risks one takes in hisec are voluntary and 100% avoidable. Without exception.
And being 100% avoidable is different from low and nullsec.... How?
Or are the many, many rants about T3s and covert ops cloak making those things optional EVERYWHERE just my imagination?
I am the Walrus. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
482
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 22:54:00 -
[119] - Quote
Avoid an inty landing on you in 5 seconds when your align time is 8.
I could go on, but I already have, and you clearly didn't bother trying to understand that either so I will stop here, at the apparent hard limit of hisec dweller reasoning. Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Lailyana Enaka
Saved Before Death Industries
97
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 00:35:00 -
[120] - Quote
Just thought id throw this out there, im more afraid of losing my astero in high sec than i am in null sec whilst exploring. also you should try wormholes and null sec, there is nothing more exhilierating than watching battleships warp in on you while youre trying to hack and just barely getting out with your ship. |
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