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Bob FromMarketing
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
192
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Posted - 2013.11.28 03:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
let me educate you about both supercapital warp mechanics as well as irony and basic level comprehension. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
747
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 03:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
Bob FromMarketing wrote:let me educate you about both supercapital warp mechanics as well as irony and basic level comprehension.
If i can try to understand.... SC used the current mechanics to probe and bump some scrubs super as it logged in and bumped and dps'd it until it died because it was travel fit, not 'log in fit' as per the new meta?
Thanks for explaining...
Doesnt really help your case. CCP can see (once notified) with very little effort that this particular titan was afforded by market manipulation of FW LP.
As for future situations, perhaps be more careful when you log in supers. |
ScheenK
Constantine. Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
36
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Posted - 2013.11.28 03:53:00 -
[33] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Bob FromMarketing wrote:let me educate you about both supercapital warp mechanics as well as irony and basic level comprehension. If i can try to understand.... SC used the current mechanics to probe and bump some scrubs super as it logged in and bumped and dps'd it until it died because it was travel fit, not 'log in fit' as per the new meta? Thanks for explaining... Doesnt really help your case. CCP can see (once notified) with very little effort that this particular titan was afforded by market manipulation of FW LP. As for future situations, perhaps be more careful when you log in supers.
You are either pretty dumb or this is a great troll, the fact that the super itself cannot use any defensive mods is what this argument comes down too, it can be bumped in ewarp mode, it cannot cancel warp or do anything else but activate hardeners, it will still try and warp the entire time, its like a handitard trying to push open a door when you have to pull
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Sala Cameron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
130
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Posted - 2013.11.28 04:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
Some facts to clarify some stuff before I go ahead: The e-warp of the ship that logged in can't be bubbled nor superpointed (you can actually superpoint it, but it has no effect). The pilot also can't stop it in any way or do anything to get himself out.
About half a year ago I've written a petition about the tactics/mechanics used today and if they are considered an exploit. The answer I got was something like "We're investigating this and do not recommend killing ships using this method until further notice. The team reserves the right to classify this as an exploit without prior warning."
To me it seems they haven't really thought and decided about it at that time. That's why PL refrained from doing it and personally I was waiting until someone else does it first and this thing gets CCP attention.
Given all that, I think we'll have to wait for a GM response on how they have decided to handle this. Member of the 8th Council of Stellar Management @sala_cameron |
RayRock
Red Eye Flyers
0
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Posted - 2013.11.28 04:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:This seems very unfair. Unfair that PL can complain about unfair mechanics that is. HTFU and dont log in unless you have a cyno fitted and support nearby.
You can't do that while in ewarp, your literally can't do anything |
RayRock
Red Eye Flyers
0
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Posted - 2013.11.28 04:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Bob FromMarketing wrote:let me educate you about both supercapital warp mechanics as well as irony and basic level comprehension. If i can try to understand.... SC used the current mechanics to probe and bump some scrubs super as it logged in and bumped and dps'd it until it died because it was travel fit, not 'log in fit' as per the new meta? Thanks for explaining... Doesnt really help your case. CCP can see (once notified) with very little effort that this particular titan was afforded by market manipulation of FW LP. As for future situations, perhaps be more careful when you log in supers.
I don't think you understand what happened. This Titan logged off in a POS safe inside the shields. When you log back in though you are put a certain distance away from your previous log out and have to Emergency Warp back to where you logged off. When you are in Emergency warp you can't do ****, you can't stop the warp and jump out, you have to deal with it and have no other choice. So SC took advantage of this, not knowing that other people have already asked CCP if this was ok, but every person who asked was told "not to do it"
There is a reason they made ships immune to tackle while in Ewarp and going around mechanics in a game to get a kill is an Exploit, because it was not intended.
Now I am not saying Ban anyone from Shadow Cartel. But the Titan should be reimbursed. |
Kari Juptris
Hoover Inc. Black Legion.
158
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 05:05:00 -
[37] - Quote
Wow. Look at all of these scrublords trying to defend a clearly broken mechanic because it means they might get t ***** on a super kill one day. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
310
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 05:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
I am not up to bubbles (lowsec scrub you know) but i thought a bubble on the point where the ship starts his ewarp works? but like i said..lowsec scrub. ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1335076#post1335076 )
But I have to say that yes it is a silly mechanic, you shouldnt be at risk when logging back in. and ib4 "but you are on the KM with two toons" well.. yes.. I am also just a scrub who had no idea what was going on and that is all i will say about this incident.
If i log out safely in a pos, i should be able to log back in safely as well. and if CCP thinks what we did was an exploit then so be it. ill take the licks for that. But the mechanic is broken. quite clearly. |
Oh Takashawa
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
0
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Posted - 2013.11.28 06:29:00 -
[39] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:I am not up to bubbles (lowsec scrub you know) but i thought a bubble on the point where the ship starts his ewarp works? but like i said..lowsec scrub. ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1335076#post1335076 ) But I have to say that yes it is a silly mechanic, you shouldnt be at risk when logging back in. and ib4 "but you are on the KM with two toons" well.. yes.. I am also just a scrub who had no idea what was going on and that is all i will say about this incident. If i log out safely in a pos, i should be able to log back in safely as well. and if CCP thinks what we did was an exploit then so be it. ill take the licks for that. But the mechanic is broken. quite clearly. Objectivity despite a personal bias? In my EVE? Why I never.
Seriously CCP, this is absurd. We can safe-logoff inside a POS even if that POS is bubbled, but we can't login without risk of being completely unable to defend ourselves? Fix this ****, it's ridiculous. Just respawn the ships back inside the POS - forcing an ewarp is a pointless waste of time, and arbitrary "No bumping!" rules won't really fix anything - it'll be just another unwritten rule of EVE. Fix the actual mechanics this time, for a change. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
259
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 07:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
This should be regarded as an exploit for the simple reason that the guy in e-warp has absolutely no recourse from within the game. They're barred, by the e-warp mechanic, from exerting any manner of control over their own ship, ergo the e-warp mechanic should bar them from being interacted with by others. This was clearly the intent, given the fact that they can't be pointed, bubbled, or tackled in any way, they just didn't follow through with the rest of the game's mechanics. |
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Darkus Airuta
Hardcor3 Industries
11
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Posted - 2013.11.28 07:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:This should be regarded as an exploit for the simple reason that the guy in e-warp has absolutely no recourse from within the game. They're barred, by the e-warp mechanic, from exerting any manner of control over their own ship, ergo the e-warp mechanic should bar them from being interacted with by others. This was clearly the intent, given the fact that they can't be pointed, bubbled, or tackled in any way, they just didn't follow through with the rest of the game's mechanics.
This tbh.
IMO it should be looked into, what a ****** way to go. |
Mawderator
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
50
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 07:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
It's nice to see that Crosi Wesdo is still acting like a petulant child and is still to this day mad that he was kicked from Drunk 'n' Disorderly.
John Caffeine wrote:Rainbow Dash wrote:Gratz to SC for finally pulling of something that's only been theory for months.
Now that someone's actually pulled it off, maybe CCP will take it seriously. No one else have done this because no one else have tried. Mostly because our petitions asking CCP if this tactic was legit was answered by a firm "no, don't do this" and a GM looking sternly at us.
Quoting to point out that RnK and a few other groups who knew about this did the responsible thing by contacting the GMs, got told "No, you can't do that," and accordingly never did it.
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RoCkEt X
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
51
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Posted - 2013.11.28 08:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
If anyone doubt's Bob FromMarketing's clames, read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=224862
When my group made the initial discovery over a year ago, we petitioned and asked and got the response 'this is definitely an unintended abuse of game mechanics, i will push this further' when other groups started to find out, we posted it on the forums;
Having tested it on sisi, the warp speed changes (using for example a proteus with warp speed rigs + subsystem) you can currently get into and out of warp with easily enough time to bump any titan or supercarrier.
I spoke with a shadow cartel director hours before the planned op:
(Click link) http://clip2net.com/clip/m208711/1385625136-clip-11kb.png
Every super is no longer safe logging out at a POS. Maybe now CCP will consider it an issue, and take the time needed to fix it.
-Rock |
Nanobot
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
0
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Posted - 2013.11.28 08:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdOYaoxh80o
Taken around a year ago (and the only time I've heard Elise rage tbh)
To put the Video into context. Titan pilot crashed (with aggro). He logged back in before any point/bubble was put onto him. Still peaced out, ergo working as intended.
Had he have logged back in AFTER he was pointed, no Ewarp would have occured.
Different circumstances to be sure, but the ewarp mechanics haven't changed since then.
Posted to show Ewarp in motion while "tackled"
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Kashmyta
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
72
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 08:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:This seems very unfair. Unfair that PL can complain about unfair mechanics that is. HTFU and dont log in unless you have a cyno fitted and support nearby.
You cannot do anything, because you are technically still in warp, so you cannot cancel the warp, light cyno etc |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
747
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 09:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kashmyta wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:This seems very unfair. Unfair that PL can complain about unfair mechanics that is. HTFU and dont log in unless you have a cyno fitted and support nearby. You cannot do anything, because you are technically still in warp, so you cannot cancel the warp, light cyno etc
You can simply get an alt to light a cyno for you.
I personally think its wonderful that supers are at risk at least for a few moments of their existence lol |
Tasha Saisima
State War Academy Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 09:00:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ship bumping is **** and unrealistic. Only reason CCP won't do anything is because they can't |
Super Chair
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
561
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 09:15:00 -
[48] - Quote
Sounds like a completely broken mechanic to me. You should be able to use modules while in E-Warp. The outside POS bubble thing could be looked at (there should be inherent risks to a titan, being probed upon log in could be one of them, but not being able to defend yourself (such as no activating modules) is broken, so it needs changing). Then again there's still quite a bit of mechanics that still need tweaking in this game.
Anyway please keep the discussion related to the mechanics and not personal beefs with nonah. As much as I love seeing a former frog lose their titan it shouldn't be due to ****** mechanics. Project Cerberus is recruiting for the US Timezone, click here |
Firefox4312 Yatolila
SILK R0AD
29
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Posted - 2013.11.28 09:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
I can basically reiterate everything that Rocket, as well as a lot of other PL duders have said, and confirm that it is a "nono" from the GMs.
I've used this tactic before on sisi (testserver != tq), but the mechanics on that server are still the same. After doing it enough times, it was sisi so a lot more lenient on the rules for things like this, we got warned by a GM that this was an exploitable act, and threatened with a ban.
But when you go ahead and do it on TQ, it is seen as an exploit.
Remember way back when AHARM and RnK were duking it out, and you had the issue of infinite gun range with AHARM's side. Turns out that it wasn't seen originally as an exploit, because it wasn't really used, and if it was, the usage would've been almost none seeable.
Turns out, once RnK experienced it, went and did all the month on what was happening, and gave all that to CCP, it was deemed an exploit of a perfectly valid game mechanic. Bumping people in ewarp is no different. Sure, it's a valid game mechanic, so was the negative numbers w/ the c6 magnatars. While that gave people perfect hits at infinite range, this makes it so that a titan isn't allowed to do anything except deal with the fact it's getting bumped and will have a low death ensue.
So, CCP definitely needs to go through these mechanics and fix them as well as deem this as an exploit. Because if they flat out say it's not, that gives people like PL and PHEW the ability to do this without worrying about a ban at all.
My suggestion would be to do something along the lines of making any Super class hull a "Large Collidable Object" on login, so if anything does land on it to bump it, the super will act similar to POS towers, Stargates, Stations, and won't be affected by the bumps. This should only be limited to the ewarp phase itself, and once it's out of ewarp, that status condition (if you can call it that) should be gone, so the titan acts like it always has when bumps come into account. |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
747
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 09:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:Sounds like a completely broken mechanic to me. You should be able to use modules while in E-Warp. The outside POS bubble thing could be looked at (there should be inherent risks to a titan, being probed upon log in could be one of them, but not being able to defend yourself (such as no activating modules) is broken, so it needs changing). Then again there's still quite a bit of mechanics that still need tweaking in this game. Anyway please keep the discussion related to the mechanics and not personal beefs with nonah. As much as I love seeing a former frog lose their titan it shouldn't be due to ****** mechanics.
Earned through broken mechanics, lost through broken mechanics. Hardly seems fair to complain. |
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Kashmyta
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
72
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 09:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Super Chair wrote:Sounds like a completely broken mechanic to me. You should be able to use modules while in E-Warp. The outside POS bubble thing could be looked at (there should be inherent risks to a titan, being probed upon log in could be one of them, but not being able to defend yourself (such as no activating modules) is broken, so it needs changing). Then again there's still quite a bit of mechanics that still need tweaking in this game. Anyway please keep the discussion related to the mechanics and not personal beefs with nonah. As much as I love seeing a former frog lose their titan it shouldn't be due to ****** mechanics. Earned through broken mechanics, lost through broken mechanics. Hardly seems fair to complain.
Crosi
You seem to be really mad/jealous.
why so? |
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
747
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 10:12:00 -
[52] - Quote
Kashmyta wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Super Chair wrote:Sounds like a completely broken mechanic to me. You should be able to use modules while in E-Warp. The outside POS bubble thing could be looked at (there should be inherent risks to a titan, being probed upon log in could be one of them, but not being able to defend yourself (such as no activating modules) is broken, so it needs changing). Then again there's still quite a bit of mechanics that still need tweaking in this game. Anyway please keep the discussion related to the mechanics and not personal beefs with nonah. As much as I love seeing a former frog lose their titan it shouldn't be due to ****** mechanics. Earned through broken mechanics, lost through broken mechanics. Hardly seems fair to complain. Crosi You seem to be really mad/jealous. why so?
Really, i thought i was coming across as quite smug? |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
919
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 10:15:00 -
[53] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Kashmyta wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:This seems very unfair. Unfair that PL can complain about unfair mechanics that is. HTFU and dont log in unless you have a cyno fitted and support nearby. You cannot do anything, because you are technically still in warp, so you cannot cancel the warp, light cyno etc You can simply get an alt to light a cyno for you. I personally think its wonderful that supers are at risk at least for a few moments of their existence lol
Ah ok I get it...you are just dumb.
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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Mail Lite
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
6
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Posted - 2013.11.28 10:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1335076#post1335076
Quote:If someone manages to find this spot and bubble it before you align, they will now prevent your warp. They could always do this with targeted tackle, this change just makes bubbles consistent.
Read that. CCP Masterplan says that being bubbled in Null at your Ewarp log in spot and killed is totally 100% fine as part of in game mechanics. He also says that Targeted tackle should work but *shrug* we all know that it doesn't.
Now in Low-Sec it is impossible to bubble and like I have already said we all know that for some reason targeted warp disruptors don't work so it was decided we would bump instead.
We all know that bumping is a legit game mechanic and have all used in whether on someone close to gate, getting something out of dock range or griefing a warping freighter.
So why would bumping a titan on a log in spot be different? CCP clearly makes them vulnerable in Null due to bubbles. I think it is more the case that targeted tackle is broken and you should be able to tackle with infini points in log-in spots.
Unless CCP want low-sec SC's to be invulnerable ans forever safe?
And if that is the case then it goes against EvE never being safe and never knowing what is going to happen next.
Mail |
NTVAlisha
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
0
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Posted - 2013.11.28 10:26:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mail Lite wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1335076#post1335076 Quote:If someone manages to find this spot and bubble it before you align, they will now prevent your warp. They could always do this with targeted tackle, this change just makes bubbles consistent. Read that. CCP Masterplan says that being bubbled in Null at your Ewarp log in spot and killed is totally 100% fine as part of in game mechanics. He also says that Targeted tackle should work but *shrug* we all know that it doesn't. Now in Low-Sec it is impossible to bubble and like I have already said we all know that for some reason targeted warp disruptors don't work so it was decided we would bump instead. We all know that bumping is a legit game mechanic and have all used in whether on someone close to gate, getting something out of dock range or griefing a warping freighter. So why would bumping a titan on a log in spot be different? CCP clearly makes them vulnerable in Null due to bubbles. I think it is more the case that targeted tackle is broken and you should be able to tackle with infini points in log-in spots. Unless CCP want low-sec SC's to be invulnerable ans forever safe? And if that is the case then it goes against EvE never being safe and never knowing what is going to happen next. Mail
I agree with you if a ship logs off in a safe. However there should be no e-warp if you safe log in a tower. Imagine logging out in a station then being e-warped to it. What is the point of logging off in a tower if you can't log in safely? |
Dengorn
Cosmic Cimmerians Usurper.
1
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Posted - 2013.11.28 10:29:00 -
[56] - Quote
Mail Lite wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1335076#post1335076 Quote:If someone manages to find this spot and bubble it before you align, they will now prevent your warp. They could always do this with targeted tackle, this change just makes bubbles consistent. Read that. CCP Masterplan says that being bubbled in Null at your Ewarp log in spot and killed is totally 100% fine as part of in game mechanics. He also says that Targeted tackle should work but *shrug* we all know that it doesn't. Now in Low-Sec it is impossible to bubble and like I have already said we all know that for some reason targeted warp disruptors don't work so it was decided we would bump instead. We all know that bumping is a legit game mechanic and have all used in whether on someone close to gate, getting something out of dock range or griefing a warping freighter. So why would bumping a titan on a log in spot be different? CCP clearly makes them vulnerable in Null due to bubbles. I think it is more the case that targeted tackle is broken and you should be able to tackle with infini points in log-in spots. Unless CCP want low-sec SC's to be invulnerable ans forever safe? And if that is the case then it goes against EvE never being safe and never knowing what is going to happen next. Mail
Quote:f you logged out in a FF at a bubbled POS, you'll still warp back through bubbles surrounding the forcefield - it is only bubbles at the 1M km spot that have been changed to be able to disrupt a return e-warp.
If you can't be bubbled on the way back from an e-warp then how is it fair for someone to be able to scan you down and bump during an ewarp? It's not like it requires a certain defree of skill or coordination either, scan in a rigged ship, bump with a sfi. |
Kashmyta
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
72
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 10:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mail Lite wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1335076#post1335076 Quote:If someone manages to find this spot and bubble it before you align, they will now prevent your warp. They could always do this with targeted tackle, this change just makes bubbles consistent. Read that. CCP Masterplan says that being bubbled in Null at your Ewarp log in spot and killed is totally 100% fine as part of in game mechanics. He also says that Targeted tackle should work but *shrug* we all know that it doesn't. Now in Low-Sec it is impossible to bubble and like I have already said we all know that for some reason targeted warp disruptors don't work so it was decided we would bump instead. We all know that bumping is a legit game mechanic and have all used in whether on someone close to gate, getting something out of dock range or griefing a warping freighter. So why would bumping a titan on a log in spot be different? CCP clearly makes them vulnerable in Null due to bubbles. I think it is more the case that targeted tackle is broken and you should be able to tackle with infini points in log-in spots. Unless CCP want low-sec SC's to be invulnerable ans forever safe? And if that is the case then it goes against EvE never being safe and never knowing what is going to happen next. Mail
I understand that, and I believe this is one of the things which is causing confusion. From my understanding numerous people have petitioned and asked if catching a super and bumping to prevent e-warp, resulting in a kill is a legitimate tactic.
The responses have said no.
So the petition responses contradict what CCP Masterplan said, although he makes no specific comment about bumping, but if bubbling is OK so should bumping I guess.
And if this is a valid tactic the pilot should at least be able to cancel warp to at least have a chance to fight back/jump out, you have to admit that not being able to do anything in terms of defense is just broken.
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ZheoTheThird
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
186
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 10:34:00 -
[58] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:This seems very unfair. Unfair that PL can complain about unfair mechanics that is. HTFU and dont log in unless you have a cyno fitted and support nearby. Said a player that doesn't fly anything more expensive than cruisers. This is not about HTFU, this is about a titan pilot being unable to take action against hostiles. As it is, you can only activate hardeners while being bumped in e-warp. You can't light a cyno, you can't fight back, you're essentially doomed the second you press login. There is no counterplay. People don't have a problem with someone being able to bump a titan, the problem is that the titan is unable to do anything while that happens. |
Jassmin Joy
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
219
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 10:51:00 -
[59] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Kashmyta wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:This seems very unfair. Unfair that PL can complain about unfair mechanics that is. HTFU and dont log in unless you have a cyno fitted and support nearby. You cannot do anything, because you are technically still in warp, so you cannot cancel the warp, light cyno etc You can simply get an alt to light a cyno for you. I personally think its wonderful that supers are at risk at least for a few moments of their existence lol
Do you even supercap bro? |
Tore Vest
355
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 10:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
If you are a target the same sec. you log in.... things need to be changed so we spawn at the same spot as we logged out. Simple... I do not understand why we need that e-warp thing afterall...
Can not wait for what GM have to say about this tho No troll. |
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