Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 23:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
It has no hyprid capacitor bonus like the Talos. The Talos beats it hands-down in the railgun department with tracking, damage and cap use. Naga only has a bonus to range for guns and missiles now. The Talos can even fit a FULL rack of 425's with no fitting mods needed! The Naga can't. The Talos is also cap stable with 425's with no cap mods. The Naga isn't.
As a torpedo boat, it has no value over the Raven(which is ubiquitous, anyone can afford one). Even a HAM Drake would be more valuable for its buffer. Like all Caldari turret boats, the only remotely useful fit for the Naga is with autocannons and unlike the Rokh which can buffer decently with autos, the Naga cannot.
50% increase in garbage range on blasters is still garbage range. Torpedoes are useless in pvp unless they're hitting something bigger than the ship firing them, and anything bigger than a Naga can kill it with ease in groups or solo.
Nobody should ever want to fly a Naga. Thanks for creating a useless ship, CCP! |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
83
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 00:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree that the Naga should drop the hybrid bonus in favor of another torp bonus. |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 00:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:I agree that the Naga should drop the hybrid bonus in favor of another torp bonus.
Agreed. Explosion radius bonus. Cut explosion radius by 10% per level would be a start. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
83
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 00:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arthur Frayn wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:I agree that the Naga should drop the hybrid bonus in favor of another torp bonus. Agreed. Explosion radius bonus. Cut explosion radius by 10% per level would be a start.
Except CCP doesn't want it to be effective against smaller targets. So instead, maybe a damage bonus? |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 00:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Arthur Frayn wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:I agree that the Naga should drop the hybrid bonus in favor of another torp bonus. Agreed. Explosion radius bonus. Cut explosion radius by 10% per level would be a start. Except CCP doesn't want it to be effective against smaller targets. So instead, maybe a damage bonus?
If anything it'll be a ROF bonus. At least then it will dps more than a Navy Raven so it'd have something going for it. |
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 00:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Having played around with the fittings for Naga and Talos, I've noticed they took away the capacitor bonus of the Talos now. But it is STILL cap stable with a full rack of 425's and no cap mods. Naga still isn't. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
83
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 00:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
I love how paper thin these ships are though. Means they won't be the new drakes and canes. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
164
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 00:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Honestly all spilt weapon ships should get more than two bonuses.
For instance if the ship gets 10% to missle range and 10% bonus to hybrid damage. They should just give it.
10% bonus per level for missiles and hybrids optimal range /flight time
10% more damage for missiles and hybrids.
Now it would obviously be weaker than other T3 BCs, but it would actually be versatile. If it can fit 8 of either weapons, then let it have 2 sets of bonuses. don't gimp players that might want to mix and match weapon systems, let them. |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
407
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 00:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
In its current incarnation it can only fit one siege missle launcher. Impossible to test out torp fits. |
Kale Eledar
Mining and Industrial Services The Irukandji
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 03:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Good thing this is still on the Test Server and subject to change.
I feel your pain though. Just like mixing tanking types, it's better to stick to one bonus. Don't get too upset though! These are in no way finalized. |
|
Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 04:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kale Eledar wrote:Good thing this is still on the Test Server and subject to change.
I think that despite the last few months of evidence, you vastly underestimate CCP's ability to make stupid decisions that annoy everyone. I will not be surprised when the Naga hits tranquility without a single change made to it, and the devs will tell us with sh!t-eating grins on their faces that the Naga is a good balanced ship. |
Kale Eledar
Mining and Industrial Services The Irukandji
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 16:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hehe, mostly true, historically. I do feel like they are listening more, this time. I'm a hopeless optimist, lol |
Soon Shin
Abyssal Heavy Industries Narwhals Ate My Duck
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 20:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP has a TERRIBLE RECORD OF BALANCING SHIPS, therefore it is absolutely a must to REMIND THEM, EVEN IF WE HAVE ***** ABOUT IT! |
Dondoran
Free Masons United Inc. Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 22:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think issues with the Naga being such a failure as a ship are mostly because the Oracle and Tornado are vastly superior in every way. They are easier to fit they have DPS that effects BC sized hulls and there faster. Its strange that CCP could direct so much hate at one of its creations yet show so much love to another. Making the Naga a ship that people will want to fly is no easy task but if it were up to me I would remove the rails give it 7 highs and 4 lows add 50 more CPU and give it the following bonuses. 5% rate of fire 10% to missiles velocity and yes absolutely it can fit cruise missiles its Caldari after all. This way thereGÇÖs at least one thing it does better than the other tier 3s a cheap and powerful ratting ship will be useful and popular.
|
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
64
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 23:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
IMO, the Caldari boat should focus on being a missle platform w/ a missile velocity bonus.
If you're going to dual weaponize any of the new BC's I think it should be the Tornado and it should only have 6 turret hard-points.
It already is the fastest, therefore it should have some kind of balancing in place to make the armor/slower (all other races) ships up to par.
As it stands, projectiles are a favored weapon because they cost no cap, they're easy to fit, they have amazing tracking and great optimal/falloff. They're quite literally the best weapon in the game.
In my opinion, instead of keep trying to balance other weapons, start by bringing projectiles down to the level of the rest. I think projectiles should have worse tracking than the rest.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Dray
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 23:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Already mentioned in another thread that the Naga should have 4 bonus, 2 for hybrids, 2 for missiles but only apply the bonus if a full rack of the same weapon system is fitted, if I'm honest it should just be torps but CCP like to push the envelope, even if that means filling it with dog poop and posting it through some ones letter box, namely Caldari letter boxes.
As for the dual bonus idea I'm no code monkey so I don't know how big an ask this is, either way it has to be better than the abortion the Naga is currently.
Just as an aside, a corp m8 mentioned how he would've liked to have seen the Naga as a cruise missile platform, but with the glass cannon idea it has to be torps.
Edit : Just occurred to me the Naga is every bit as bad as the Drake is good, I guess it must be balanced.......... |
Captain Megadeath
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 03:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:IMO, the Caldari boat should focus on being a missle platform w/ a missile velocity bonus.
NO!
Caldari have TWO main racial weapons. Missiles and hybrids. The Naga should continue to have both weapon types bonused. |
VeloxMors
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 05:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
This ship has a serious identity crisis... the result? It sucks at everything it tries to do. Everyone please welcome the latest Lachesis into New Eden... |
Cephas Boaz
Gunpoint Diplomacy
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 05:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
naga is bad. Confirming that the naga is bad. Ohh..... And btw, the naga? its bad. |
Dray
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 09:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Captain Megadeath wrote:Zagdul wrote:IMO, the Caldari boat should focus on being a missle platform w/ a missile velocity bonus.
NO! Caldari have TWO main racial weapons. Missiles and hybrids. The Naga should continue to have both weapon types bonused.
True but they have always had crappy hybrid boats, so either make it a crappy hybrid boat (like they need more) or make it a missile boat.
Back to the point in hand, what, in your opinion, should the bonus be without the making the Naga blow harder than it already does?
If I want a dual weapon bonus ship I'll use a Typhoon as it can pull it off, the Naga can't, not even close.
|
|
Shivus Tao
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 09:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
For a ship that's supposed to be super specialized, a split bonus is the dumbest thing to add. It either needs to be a dedicated rail ship with the optimal and an added damage or cap bonus, or a dedicated torp ship with a flight time RoF, or damage bonus added on top of the velocity bonus.
If ccp wants it to have the option of either torps or rails then it needs 4 bonuses to be on par with the other t3's; 2 for rails, 2 for torps. |
Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 10:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Not commenting un the usefulness of the resulting ship I think the bonuses makes complete sense actually, considering what they where trying to do.
1. Caldari rail ships have a tank bonus + an optimal bonus. 2. Drake has tank bonus + missile bonus. 3. We don't want to give theese glass cannons a tank bonus, let's make it a split weapon platform. 4. Using other caldari bonuses that would be something like 10% rail optimal + 5% cruise and torp ROF 5. We don't want tier 3 bc's to be useful against cruiser sized hulls so we need to remove the cruise missile bonus. 6. ???????? - let's change the 5% torp ROF bonus to a range bonus 7. Result: Naga [IMG]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/nattravn/EVE/draakhchimeranaglfar.png[/IMG] |
DarkAegix
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
241
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 10:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
The Naga should have 2 bonuses for each weapon set. Its turret/missile bay layout is 8 each, so you're not going to mix and match weapons. A missile Naga will have useless hybrid bonuses. A hybrid Naga will have useless missile bonuses. A split weapons Naga will be hilarious and fail.
This will not make it overpowered. Flexible fittings do not make a ship overpowered. |
Dray
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
4
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 10:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Draahk Chimera wrote:Not commenting un the usefulness of the resulting ship I think the bonuses makes complete sense actually, considering what they where trying to do.
1. Caldari rail ships have a tank bonus + an optimal bonus. 2. Drake has tank bonus + missile bonus. 3. We don't want to give theese glass cannons a tank bonus, let's make it a split weapon platform. 4. Using other caldari bonuses that would be something like 10% rail optimal + 5% cruise and torp ROF 5. We don't want tier 3 bc's to be useful against cruiser sized hulls so we need to remove the cruise missile bonus. 6. ???????? - let's change the 5% torp ROF bonus to a range bonus 7. Result: Naga
Firstly no, just no, it doesn't work, the only way to make it work is to give it 2 rail and 2 missile bonus but only apply the bonus if a full rack of the particular system is fitted.
Secondly, the tank plus weapons system bonus is ok because you only have one damage type to boost so you can fit 2-4 damage mods specific to the weapon system, you missed the point of the glass cannon if you think that dual weapon bonus is a good idea, you can't stack damage mods if you have to boost 2 types of weapon system, even worse for the Naga it has 3 lows.
|
Shivus Tao
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 11:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dray wrote:
but only apply the bonus if a full rack of the particular system is fitted.
This is actually an incredibly creative idea that could change a great number of things. Bonuses that tailor numerical values based on the purity of a fit. |
Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 13:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dray wrote:Draahk Chimera wrote:Not commenting on the usefulness of the resulting ship Random rant about something I didn't say
Reading comprehension 4tw. [IMG]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/nattravn/EVE/draakhchimeranaglfar.png[/IMG] |
Captain Megadeath
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 14:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dray wrote: True but they have always had crappy hybrid boats, so either make it a crappy hybrid boat (like they need more) or make it a missile boat.
Caldari hybrid boats have always been "crap" because hybrids have always been "crap", before the nanonerf Gallente boats were able to use superior speed to cover this fact but after it, it has become glaringly obvious to everyone that hybrids in general suck.
Dray wrote: Back to the point in hand, what, in your opinion, should the bonus be without the making the Naga blow harder than it already does?
They should return the dual bonuses that were released in its first iteration, Role bonuses to fitting and capacitor usage for large hybrid turrets and siege launchers (torpedoes) Range (10/lv) and tracking speed (7.5/lv) bonuses to large hybrid turrets, and torpedo velocity (10/lv) and explosion-velocity (5/lv).
Make these bonuses work ONLY when a full rack of a particular weapon is fitted. i.e. no mixed weapon loads. Either 8 rails or 8 torps. Not a 4/4 mix.
Considering that during this revision they removed the web bonus and drone bonus on the Talos, they have fecked up more than the Naga. I suggest that they return the original stats on both.
Dray wrote: If I want a dual weapon bonus ship I'll use a Typhoon as it can pull it off, the Naga can't, not even close.
And as my main is a Caldari, I wish to fly Caldari with racial weapons. Just the same as the Galls who wish to fly their racial ship with their racial weapons. Both Tr3 BC need their original stats back. |
Zelphinine
OCTAGON Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.06 18:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
Captain Megadeath wrote:Make these bonuses work ONLY when a full rack of a particular weapon is fitted. i.e. no mixed weapon loads. Either 8 rails or 8 torps. Not a 4/4 mix. Who would split their weapons by choice? This seems like a terribly cumbersome thing to worry about. And a good way to get CCP to pass over the entire issue by demanding additional coding.
The Naga sucks enough as it is. Don't water down the case for buffing by demanding its bonuses only apply in specific situations. |
Dray
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
5
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 20:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Draahk Chimera wrote:Dray wrote:Draahk Chimera wrote:Not commenting on the usefulness of the resulting ship Random rant about something I didn't say Reading comprehension 4tw.
I apologise, I'm sure if you'd said the same face to face I'd have picked up the sarcasm. |
draconothese
Independant Celestial Enterprises Pink Fluffy Pussycats
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.09 00:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
leave the telos alone buff it even more i say gallente have been in the dark for to long |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |