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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
M1AU
Farstriders New Eden Industrie Alliance
46
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Posted - 2011.12.22 10:14:00 -
[1471] - Quote
tEcHnOkRaT wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Pinky Denmark wrote: And how can you claim active tanking is fine when Brutix, cyclone, sleipnir, claymore with shield bonuses rarely use active tanking? Myrmidons and Hyperions shield tank as often as they active tank where Im flying too and I'd rather fit an extender on a Hawk rather than even a faction shield booster...
That's why I'm saying buffer tanking is way too good for its cost (there's none actually) and its drawbacks (very insignificant). Fix buffer and active tanking will turn out much more viable. Matari speed is a whole another story. myrmidon and hyperion is being used for pve and in pve active shield tank is twice as good as active armor tank. and u cant buffer tank in pve cuz u will pop :). and as for passive shield tank in pve there is only a handfull that u can consider viable. so u are now flaming about passive shield tanks in pvp, but just consider that there are alot more solo pve players then active pvp players. and if u change the way shield tanking works for alot of people lvl 4 and lvl 5 missions might become imposible to complete. another option would be to boost active armor tanking btw this forum is for hybrid guns not for shield/armor tanking :)
Well I'm doing quite a few lvl 4's in empire space but I rather see NPCs getting balanced around different weapon systems and tanks, so that not a single weapon system or tank is preferable against pretty much all of them. If it makes sense to change the way how active armor or shield tanks work in a PVP environment, do it. |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team
97
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Posted - 2011.12.22 10:59:00 -
[1472] - Quote
Whatever you do plz dont touch the balance between shield and armor... Shield boosting does have some advantages that are very usefull for PvE, but shield and armor are very, very accurately balanced except for the slave/crystal sets.
Armor tanks generate the most HP pr. cap used in return for not getting armor until the end of the cycle. Armor also have a higher base resistance. Shield boosters can fit x-large shield boosters with a huge instant burst tank (tanking a lot of dps for a short duration) but will be burning cap in huge amounts, and shield resistance is lower compared to armor.
The real reasons why shield tanks are so much better than armor tanks for PvE these days are the Capacitor Control Circuit rigs each giving a huge regeneration of cap without any penalties making permanent shield boosting much, much easier than was originally intended. CCP really should look at the energy rigs where ccc rigs and acr rigs in my opinion should only give out half their current bonus and get a penalty like reduced sensor strength, signature or similar.
The way PvE are designed with MANY npc's doing LITTLE dps on their own makes burst tanking nice because you can then tank what you need until you have killed enough npc's to decrease their dps. In my npc ships should have more hitpoints, more dps and bigger bounties in return for less numbers - It'll be a lot of work but making PvE combat closer to PvP is a good thing in my world and if the CCC rigs gets sorted to a non-game breaking level armor tanking should definately be in it's right place.
And about the buffer tanks I don't think they're overpowered considered the amount of dps in space these days - The problem as I was trying to explain you is active tanks just not keeping up. Not only compared to extenders, but the experience I have is even burst tanking pvp shield ships like cyclone or Hawk will MELT in the face of even light resistance unless you are a pilot with maxed skills, faction modules, drugs, commandship bonus and picking your targets very carefully... Thats why I'd rather extender fit a hawk and a cyclone. Don't nerf buffertanks - boost active tanks and balance NPC's accordingly. |
Keen Fallsword
Billionaires Club BLACK-MARK
36
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Posted - 2011.12.22 11:43:00 -
[1473] - Quote
You guys wrote much !!! But what about CCP ? ANY info from their side ? Or they just ignores you ???
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team
97
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Posted - 2011.12.22 12:01:00 -
[1474] - Quote
They're taking a holiday vacation with their families while pondering about their next move... Tallest promised a dev blog on further hybrid changes estimated to arrive in january.
Pinky |
Neo Agricola
BLACK-MARK
203
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Posted - 2011.12.22 12:04:00 -
[1475] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:They're taking a holiday vacation with their families while pondering about their next move... Tallest promised a dev blog on further hybrid changes estimated to arrive in january.
Pinky good DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710 |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
371
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Posted - 2011.12.22 15:01:00 -
[1476] - Quote
A lot of crap posted by both sides...
Proper pvp?
Make tier 3 BC's slower and less agile?
What the **** is this ****. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Rebirth Mining Director
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 15:23:00 -
[1477] - Quote
Holy crap.
Tallest, please stop listening to the EFT warriors in this thread. I don't think many of them actually play the game.
Hybrids are very good now. Very much balanced with lasers and projectiles. The only imbalance I see in the 3 main turrets right now is the ability for projectiles to use any damage type. Restrict them to kinetic / explosive, and everything is peachy.
In your next wave of balancing, please address ship bonuses that have become obsolete. You know the ones I'm talking about: armor rep bonuses on gallente hulls and laser capacitor bonuses on amarr hulls. Change them to a different bonus. Maybe change the armor rep bonus to a resist bonus or something. Give all Amarr laser boats a 20-25% cap reduction on lasers and replace the cap bonuses with something useful like damage, rate of fire, optimal, tracking or armor resist. Then you won't see people flying around in laser boats with autocannons fitted.
That is all. Go on everyone, hate on this post if you want because I didn't call for a 40% damage increase and 200% range increase for hybrids. Hate all you want. I'm not wrong.
Director of The God Squad's mining division. Now recruiting Orca pilots! |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 16:30:00 -
[1478] - Quote
Rebirth Mining Director wrote:Holy crap.
Tallest, please stop listening to the EFT warriors in this thread. I don't think many of them actually play the game.
Hybrids are very good now. Very much balanced with lasers and projectiles. The only imbalance I see in the 3 main turrets right now is the ability for projectiles to use any damage type. Restrict them to kinetic / explosive, and everything is peachy.
In your next wave of balancing, please address ship bonuses that have become obsolete. You know the ones I'm talking about: armor rep bonuses on gallente hulls and laser capacitor bonuses on amarr hulls. Change them to a different bonus. Maybe change the armor rep bonus to a resist bonus or something. Give all Amarr laser boats a 20-25% cap reduction on lasers and replace the cap bonuses with something useful like damage, rate of fire, optimal, tracking or armor resist. Then you won't see people flying around in laser boats with autocannons fitted.
That is all. Go on everyone, hate on this post if you want because I didn't call for a 40% damage increase and 200% range increase for hybrids. Hate all you want. I'm not wrong.
alt troll post |
Rebirth Mining Director
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 16:53:00 -
[1479] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:alt troll post Alt? Yes. I don't need you morons sending hate mail to my main.
Troll? Hardly. I meant every word of what I said. Preceding my post is 70+ pages of game breaking suggestions from people who think their hybrid boat should win any engagement against any possible opponent 10 out of 10 times. It's time for people to wake up. Hybrids are very good now. In some specific situations they are weak, in others they are ******* outstanding. That's the mark of a balanced weapon system. If you're too stupid to figure out how to use them to their advantages, that's your problem, not the weapon system's.
Director of The God Squad's mining division. Now recruiting Orca pilots! |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 16:58:00 -
[1480] - Quote
i maintain my troll post position. your words are carefully chosen to illicit emotional posts from folks who have been discussing things in this thread. go back under your bridge, troll |
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Rebirth Mining Director
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:04:00 -
[1481] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:i maintain my troll post position. your words are carefully chosen to illicit emotional posts from folks who have been discussing things in this thread. go back under your bridge, troll If I was troll posting I would say something like:
You sound emotional. My words were chosen to illicit responses from fools like you.
But, for once, I'm serious. The only people still asking for hybrid changes are people who will NEVER be satisfied. Let's cross hybrids off the list. It's time to move on to other things that actually could use some improvement. You know, like ship bonuses.
Also, an addition to what I was saying above about limiting projectiles to kin / explosive: It's time. If a fleet scouts an incoming enemy fleet of abaddons and switches to armor ships with em / hardeners, that's good game play. If a fleet scouts incoming enemies in malestroms and switches to shield ships with kinetic / explosive hardeners only to have the maels load EMP, that's broken. Homogenization is bad. Anything that encourages diverse fleet compositions is good. Director of The God Squad's mining division. Now recruiting Orca pilots! |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:09:00 -
[1482] - Quote
your trying way too hard |
Rebirth Mining Director
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:10:00 -
[1483] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:your trying way too hard *sigh* Seriously?
Talk about a "never satisfied" mentality...
EDIT: The fact that you think I'm trolling because I'm saying hybrids are balanced now shows just how out of whack your thought process is... Director of The God Squad's mining division. Now recruiting Orca pilots! |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:14:00 -
[1484] - Quote
it's so whacked bro |
Rebirth Mining Director
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:17:00 -
[1485] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:it's so whacked bro Admitting it is the first step to recovery. Now we just need to work on basically everyone else in this thread. Director of The God Squad's mining division. Now recruiting Orca pilots! |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:18:00 -
[1486] - Quote
the guns are not the issue its the platforms that use them asides from the proteus that are. i do not expect an orca pilot to understand this so, keep on keepin on troll |
Rebirth Mining Director
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:20:00 -
[1487] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:the guns are not the issue its the platforms that use them asides from the proteus that are. i do not expect an orca pilot to understand this so, keep on keepin on troll This is the "i should win every fight" mentality I was talking about.
Having trouble getting into range? Bring a tackler. You know, that thing that has been a staple of eve game play since day one. Once tackled, roll on in with your blasters and **** face. Director of The God Squad's mining division. Now recruiting Orca pilots! |
Clara Sprudel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:46:00 -
[1488] - Quote
Rebirth Mining Director wrote:Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:the guns are not the issue its the platforms that use them asides from the proteus that are. i do not expect an orca pilot to understand this so, keep on keepin on troll This is the "i should win every fight" mentality I was talking about. Having trouble getting into range? Bring a tackler. You know, that thing that has been a staple of eve game play since day one. Once tackled, roll on in with your blasters and **** face.
Maybe you should read this whole thread again, you would see that it is not about a new gallente I-WIN-BUTTON. People are discussing ways to make pvp more competitive for many situations, 1vs1, small fleets and large fleets.
I do not agree with Zarak1 in many points, but I agree with him that you are a troll. You only post assumptions and try to offend people. There is allways someone like you who from time to time jumps into this thread and tries to sound very intelligent and proffesional. If hybrids and the plattforms are fine for you go out and use them, give us some evidence, kill people and show the killmail, form a Gallente Blaster fleet and shoot the crap out of everyone and show us your great skill ;) |
Rebirth Mining Director
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 17:54:00 -
[1489] - Quote
Clara Sprudel wrote:People are discussing ways to make pvp more competitive for many situations, 1vs1, small fleets and large fleets. But that's really my point, isn't it. There are ships that are very good in 1v1 that make use of every weapons system, hybrids included. Most of the suggestions in this thread are an attempt to make all hybrid boats everywhere able to kill anything in 1v1. That is bad and not how eve should work.
When you're talking about fleets, however, it's a totally different argument with even less substance. I've said it before and I'll say it again....
Clara Sprudel wrote:form a Gallente Blaster fleet and shoot the crap out of everyone and show us your great skill ;) Homogenization is bad. If you're flying a fleet composed entirely of Gallente blaster boats, you deserve to be kited and die in a fire. Bring some tackle. Bring some ranged weapons. Bring some e-war. Bring some logi. Get your enemy right where you want him, then obliterate them with blaster fire. Director of The God Squad's mining division. Now recruiting Orca pilots! |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:26:00 -
[1490] - Quote
are you done soap boxing yet? would be nice to have a true dialogue instead of this non sense |
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Rebirth Mining Director
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 18:30:00 -
[1491] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:are you done soap boxing yet? would be nice to have a true dialogue instead of this non sense When you have a counter-point to something I've said, feel free to share it. I'll be happy to debate you to your heart's content. Director of The God Squad's mining division. Now recruiting Orca pilots! |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 19:24:00 -
[1492] - Quote
there is nothing to discuss with you. you just want to retort and reiterate your troll post repeatedly. the rest of the folks who have been engaging in dialogue however were pleasant and reasonable. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
199
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Posted - 2011.12.22 19:25:00 -
[1493] - Quote
Rebirth Mining Director wrote: Homogenization is bad. If you're flying a fleet composed entirely of Gallente blaster boats, you deserve to be kited and die in a fire. Bring some tackle. Bring some ranged weapons. Bring some e-war. Bring some logi. Get your enemy right where you want him, then obliterate them with blaster fire.
So only winmatard should be able to form homo gangs? Like vaga vaga cyna cyna cane dramiel??? Cause thats what i see most of the time. nerf matar now!!!
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Rebirth Mining Director
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 19:40:00 -
[1494] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:the rest of the folks who have been engaging in dialogue however were pleasant and reasonable. What a surprise. You got along with the rest of your fellow "buff hybrids moar" circle jerk gang?
Naomi Knight wrote:So only winmatard should be able to form homo gangs? Like vaga vaga cyna cyna cane dramiel??? Cause thats what i see most of the time. That's because there's 2 way to counter a gang like that: ewar and longer range weapons on tanked hulls, or form your own angel homo gang. Most people choose the later because they're unoriginal. Director of The God Squad's mining division. Now recruiting Orca pilots! |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team
97
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Posted - 2011.12.22 19:58:00 -
[1495] - Quote
Rebirth you are correct that minmatar guns need to have explosive/kinetic damage in all their ammunition and yes Amarr ships need some more exciting bonuses instead of cap reduction (since projectiles and hybrids are now updated and lazors no longer seem overpowered). But in return your attitude is all wrong... What a shame.
Pinky |
Rebirth Mining Director
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 20:21:00 -
[1496] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:But in return your attitude is all wrong... What a shame. Yeah, quite frankly: you're right.
In fact, I agree with nearly 100% of what you have said in every one of your posts for the entirety of this thread. Your ideas are well thought out and very rational. You've delivered them clearly and concisely. And you've been drowned out by the people shouting "GIVE BLASTERS MOAR DAMAGE AND NO CAP USE AND 60KM RANGE AND INSTANT RELOAD LOOLZ" from the rooftops at every opportunity.
And the sad part? There's a good chance CCP will listen to them, and not you, because they are louder.
EDIT: Also, to anyone who thinks I'm wrong about CCP paying attention to the loudest first? Ask yourself why traders dress the way they do on the floors of most futures exchanges. Director of The God Squad's mining division. Now recruiting Orca pilots! |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 20:55:00 -
[1497] - Quote
no, i got along with the people who were not assholes for the sake of being one. you obviously havent read any of the pages in this thread and where i stood on any of this stuff.
you are trolling very poorly |
Rebirth Mining Director
40
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Posted - 2011.12.22 20:57:00 -
[1498] - Quote
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:no, i got along with the people who were not assholes for the sake of being one. you obviously havent read any of the pages in this thread and where i stood on any of this stuff.
you are trolling very poorly Who are you again? Go away kid, the grownups are talking.
Christ, what an attention ***** you are, Zarak. Director of The God Squad's mining division. Now recruiting Orca pilots! |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
651
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Posted - 2011.12.22 21:38:00 -
[1499] - Quote
There are several ways to balance active and passive tank types without boosting repping values themselves, which is the last thing one should consider doing.
In addition to (or instead of, if you so please) what I've already said (plain reduction in EHP) it's also very appealing to increase fitting requirements for plates/extenders and reduce them for active modules.
2600 MW for 1600mm plate - hell, yes! In this case passive tanking becomes much more interesting fitting-wise. It's no longer 'overtank with plates and put biggest guns on top of it', but rather 'I have to actually make a tough choice'. 500 MW for a large shield extender - w00t!
As for repping mods, they are already balanced pretty well by cap consumption. If anything, they should require less PG and less CPU.
And this of a direct relation to hybrids, btw. Fon Revedhort for CSM 7 |
Morgan North
The Wild Bunch Electus Matari
61
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Posted - 2011.12.22 22:05:00 -
[1500] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:There are several ways to balance active and passive tank types without boosting repping values themselves, which is the last thing one should consider doing.
In addition to (or instead of, if you so please) what I've already said (plain reduction in EHP) it's also very appealing to increase fitting requirements for plates/extenders and reduce them for active modules.
2600 MW for 1600mm plate - hell, yes! In this case passive tanking becomes much more interesting fitting-wise. It's no longer 'overtank with plates and put biggest guns on top of it', but rather 'I have to actually make a tough choice'. 500 MW for a large shield extender - w00t!
As for repping mods, they are already balanced pretty well by cap consumption. If anything, they should require less PG and less CPU.
And this of a direct relation to hybrids, btw.
I'd be ok with that idea. Would make it hard/impossible to fit 1600mm on cruisers though, unless I'm mistaken. But then again I do think the whole "oversized" fitting requirement is silly, and could do with a general renaming in terms of gameplay. Afterall, does anyone outside a few fittings evr use small shield extenders? And I'm not sure such fittings do exist anyway. |
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