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TomHorn
Join The Dark Side Join The Empire
109
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 11:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Aivonen GÇô The Caldari Navy has recovered the wreckage of the fugitive fleet believed to have been escorting Tibus Heth in Aivonen early this morning
source http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/report-wreckage-of-heths-escort-found-in-hakonen/
Provists are heading to Aivonen to start a search and rescue mission |
Kyllsa Siikanen
Gradient Electus Matari
56
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 11:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Queue Diana Kim in 3...2... GÇ£Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.GÇ¥-á
GÇò C.S. Lewis-á |
Gwen Ikiryo
Perkone Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 11:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
The weapons suggest Amarr or Khanid Navy, Blood Raiders, or Sansha's Nation forces.
...All of which have sort of horrible, if different, implications. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1238
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 12:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:The weapons suggest Amarr or Khanid Navy, Blood Raiders, or Sansha's Nation forces.
...All of which have sort of horrible, if different, implications. Or anyone else... it's not like this weapon system is a rare thing.
This event decrease chance of us hearing about Heth ever again... maybe... who know. |
Gwen Ikiryo
Perkone Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 12:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Or anyone else... it's not like this weapon system is a rare thing.
This event decrease chance of us hearing about Heth ever again... maybe... who know.
I was speaking in terms of the fleet standard, sir. Though you're right that it could have been an independent party, such as a group of Capsuleers.
Heavens forfend, yet though... To be honest, that would probably be the best outcome. Considering that he'd simply likely show up for sale in Jita 4-4 a week from now. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
1171
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 12:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Speculation really at this point, but it looks more like whoever did this was looking to acquire Heth and the Dragonaurs for their own personal means, that or it's a really good cover up.
Either way, it's certainly not an ideal scenario for those who wanted to bring him in. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Constantin Baracca
162
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 12:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
So many questions, but the fact that there was no crew is sort of a major problem in this regard. If it were an Amarrian party, you would think they would have let the dead of heathens lie.
If it really was Heth and this isn't a massive cover-up, there is only one group I can think of that uses energy weapons and collects the living and dead crews of the ships they attack. Perhaps the rest of Heth is in a decanter somewhere in Delve. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"
-Matthew 16:26 |
Alizabeth Vea
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
272
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 12:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mr. Heth, Should you desire to seek sanctuary in Deklein, contact me. I would be more than happy to arrange this. We also have property for rent in several other regions of space far from empire control.
Why would I do this? Because $#!& TEST, that's why. Editor: TheMittani.com -á If you are going anywhere else to get your Eve News, you are wrong.
|
Solarienne
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
102
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 12:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well, this is all very interesting. Couldn't have happened to a nicer person. "Pulled from the grime and uncertainty that my life had been, I opened my eyes for the first time and saw in the distance, oh so far away, Utopia. -áMy path may be the broken backs of those who stand against me, but one day, I will stand at the gates and I will be Home." - Sascha Ishenko; Meditations on Servitude |
Laurentis Thiesant
Institute of Social Development
41
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 13:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:Queue Diana Kim in 3...2...
Oh this will be so good. |
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Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
81
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 13:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Gwen Ikiryo wrote:The weapons suggest Amarr or Khanid Navy, Blood Raiders, or Sansha's Nation forces.
...All of which have sort of horrible, if different, implications. Or anyone else... it's not like this weapon system is a rare thing. This event decrease chance of us hearing about Heth ever again... maybe... who know.
To add some weight to Ms. Ikiryo's speculation, Ishaga constellation in Black Rise has been the focus of an incursion by Nation forces for approximately the last 24hrs.
When taken in consideration with the types of weapon systems used, the lack of any survivors on board and the fact that no life pods or other escape mechanisms were utilised I'd say that - while still speculative - Ms. Ikiryo's suggestion is rapidly becoming one of the likely explanations.
O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Amann Karris
Yulai Enclave
39
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 13:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ollie Rundle wrote:When taken in consideration with the types of weapon systems used, the lack of any survivors on board and the fact that no life pods or other escape mechanisms were utilised[sic] I'd say that - while still speculative - Ms. Ikiryo's suggestion is rapidly becoming one of the likely explanations. Another possibility is mercenaries hired to make it look like Sansha's Nation, and using the incursion as a smokescreen. Or Amarr/Khanid forces assisting Heth in disappearing.
There are many possibilities, and only further investigation will yield answers. |
Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
81
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 13:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Amann Karris wrote:Ollie Rundle wrote:When taken in consideration with the types of weapon systems used, the lack of any survivors on board and the fact that no life pods or other escape mechanisms were utilised[sic] I'd say that - while still speculative - Ms. Ikiryo's suggestion is rapidly becoming one of the likely explanations. Another possibility is mercenaries hired to make it look like Sansha's Nation, and using the incursion as a smokescreen. Or Amarr/Khanid forces assisting Heth in disappearing. There are many possibilities, and only further investigation will yield answers.
Indeed, which is why I referred to it as one of the likely explanations.
As a side note, while I do offer sincere thanks for your attempts to mimic a spell-checker 'utilised' can be spelt with an s or z. O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Amann Karris
Yulai Enclave
40
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 13:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ollie Rundle wrote:As a side note, utilised[sic] can be spelt[sic] with an s or z although I do offer sincere thanks for your attempts to mimic a spell-checker.
There is no need to be defensive.
There must be a translation error in my software then. Both "utilised" and "spelt" are shown as erroneously spelled. I make extensive use of translation software when discussing topics on these forums. It is an attempt to ensure that I do not derail a conversation further by individuals claiming I have erroneously spelled a word another has said. There is no personal slight intended, simply clarifying for future reference.
It also seems that you believe my comment was somehow attempting to belittle your contribution; I was simply pointing out some other alternatives and agreeing that it is quite possible. My apologies if it seemed I was singling your comment out for some nefarious purpose. That was not the case, sir.
If you for some reason feel I am trying to offend you, might I suggest ignoring future comments I make so that we might not derail a conversation further, or better yet, discuss such in private? |
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
290
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 13:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:The weapons suggest ... Khanid Navy...
We use missiles!
MISSILES!!! |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2903
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 13:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hey, he shot us first OK? Not like we were hunting him...at all...yeah.
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Gwen Ikiryo
Perkone Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 14:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Esan Vartesa wrote:Gwen Ikiryo wrote:The weapons suggest ... Khanid Navy...
We use missiles! MISSILES!!!
Oh!
How careless. Pardon me. That escaped my mind at the time of writing. |
Anja Suorsa
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
211
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 14:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Amann Karris wrote:Ollie Rundle wrote:As a side note, utilised[sic] can be spelt[sic] with an s or z although I do offer sincere thanks for your attempts to mimic a spell-checker.
There must be a translation error in my software then. Both "utilised" and "spelt" are shown as erroneously spelled.
There must be, Mr Rundle is quite correct in his spelling of both words. As are you, but that's besides the point.
I was under the impression the topic was actually Heth and his fleet; not pedantry over spelling. More fool me. |
Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
81
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 14:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Amann Karris wrote:Ollie Rundle wrote:As a side note, utilised[sic] can be spelt[sic] with an s or z although I do offer sincere thanks for your attempts to mimic a spell-checker.
There is no need to be defensive. There must be a translation error in my software then. Both "utilised" and "spelt" are shown as erroneously spelled. I make extensive use of translation software when discussing topics on these forums. It is an attempt to ensure that I do not derail a conversation further by individuals claiming I have erroneously spelled a word another has said. There is no personal slight intended, simply clarifying for future reference. It also seems that you believe my comment was somehow attempting to belittle your contribution; I was simply pointing out some other alternatives and agreeing that it is quite possible. My apologies if it seemed I was singling your comment out for some nefarious purpose. That was not the case, sir. If you for some reason feel I am trying to offend you, might I suggest ignoring future comments I make so that we might not derail a conversation further, or better yet, discuss such in private?
No need to resort to the threadbare excuse of blaming it all on your translation software - there are multiple products out there if you need to upgrade to something that doesn't just check against your own limited, localised experience.
By all means, Mr. Karris, feel free to correct at will if it suits you to. But do try to make sure what you're stating is precise and accurate.
In any case, let's get back to our regular programming as you said. O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
81
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 14:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Anja Suorsa wrote:There must be, Mr Rundle is quite correct in his spelling of both words. As are you, but that's besides the point.
I was under the impression the topic was actually Heth and his fleet; not pedantry over spelling. More fool me.
Anja, pedantry is what this place is all about. Surely you've realised that by now.
Back to Heth and his fleet though.
Aivonen is currently serving as a HQ system for the Ishaga incursion. As of this moment, there are three True Power Provisional Headquarters sites and two True Creations Research Centers. Nothing remains of the wreckage of Heth's fleet - the Caldari Navy's done a good job of salvaging it one supposes - and I couldn't find any biomass related to it either. There are moderately sized battlecruiser fleets with limited battleship support at one of the gates.
It's a relatively small system so while one set of scans is probably relatively accurate, further independent scan results would always increase that accuracy. While I've entered each of the sites mentioned, I'm yet to have been able to scan down any of the facilities within them. O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
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Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1013
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 15:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Anja Suorsa wrote:I was under the impression the topic was actually Heth and his fleet; not pedantry over spelling. More fool me. People just Heth to go after the low-hanging fruit.
... Ahem. On a more serious note:
I feel it probably ought to be pointed out that people may be reading too deeply into the mention of "energy weapons". Without more evidence than what was released in the news report, we really can't say for sure that any one group was responsible for it based on the weapons used alone. It's not impossible or unheard of for a group A to use ships and equipment they would not normally use, but that another group B might, in order to suggest they weren't involved.
Another thing to consider: just because the equipment classification system we use for fitting our ships only lists laser weaponry as "energy weapons" doesn't mean that everyone else uses the same classification. I'd consider blasters to be a form of energy weapon, for example, despite the fact that they are classified only as 'hybrid' weapons by our system.
I admit I also wonder if it isn't possible that this wasn't actually a targeted attack, but simply one of opportunity. It's possible whoever attacked the group didn't even know Heth was there. Morwen Lagann Director, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1932
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 15:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
I hate to raise this point, but if Heth HAD made a deal that guaranteed his safe passage to parts dubious, the escort fleet would have been 'surplus to requirements' and OPSEC would have required that it be dealt with.
One of the perils of serving a tyrant, I suppose. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
5106
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 15:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I hate to raise this point, but if Heth HAD made a deal that guaranteed his safe passage to parts dubious, the escort fleet would have been 'surplus to requirements' and OPSEC would have required that it be dealt with.
One of the perils of serving a tyrant, I suppose.
While maskirovka is a valuable tool in the intelligence game, the presence of Heth's blood, a prized pocketwatch (of all things), signs of firefights, energy weapons...
Often, the simplest explanation is best. Unless we receive evidence to the contrary, Heth has likely been seized by the Nation.
I'm uncertain how I feel about this.
Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
261
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
This is a curious development indeed... Considering the circumstances and nation activity in the sector, their involvment is likely... We shouldn't rule out others however as it can be a play to blame Nation. Hence, stay on your guard and check for any strange activity in Black Rise. Aurora Arcology Project Newsfeed |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2277
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
It is also known that the Sisters of EVE use energy weapons and tend to disable hostile vessels for humanitarian reasons, rather than outright destroying them.
It could be possible that Heth was detained by the SoE for various reasons. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1932
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:This is a curious development indeed... Considering the circumstances and nation activity in the sector, their involvment is likely... We shouldn't rule out others however as it can be a play to blame Nation. Hence, stay on your guard and check for any strange activity in Black Rise.
So, state Normal, situation Unchanged?
Great. I'd love to actually sleep in a bed sometime this week. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
1108
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
I wonder if Kim will ever be able to get over the (apparent) loss of her Dear Leader?
At any rate I'm buying shares of companies that produce ice cream, liquor and ammunition. I can see Kim holing up in her quarters with a few hundred gallons of rocky road, booze and enough guns to arm a small rebellion in an effort to console herself. When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around. |
Isis Dea
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
190
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:I wonder if Kim will ever be able to get over the (apparent) loss of her Dear Leader?
At any rate I'm buying shares of companies that produce ice cream, liquor and ammunition. I can see Kim holing up in her quarters with a few hundred gallons of rocky road, booze and enough guns to arm a small rebellion in an effort to console herself.
There's a lot of Caldari who won't. Tibus wasn't born into the executive life, something so many pulling the strings now did. His views are shared on much of the underpopulation of the State.
There's many who relate to him, though we call him a monster by majority.
To not recognize that is to inspire the same brewing hate that Tibus Heth was empowered by, ultimately causing him (even if not the same man) to surface again later.
Thread carefully, I'd rethink all of your approaches... especially with Diana Kim. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1933
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
There is no doubt that the Executor achieved some grand things, some things that we need to take to heart and keep with us - but to say that he enjoys anything like popular support these days is highly erroneous.
His increasingly erratic speeches, his increasingly unacceptable behaviour and his final infamous acts are generally accepted as such throughout the State. When a good thing is no longer good then it is time it was replaced. |
Sorjat
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
I was curious when and how the story of Tibus Heth would end... it has been something of an ongoing saga.
While we all know for sure that Admiral Yanala was a capsuleer and on her return to Caldari space she sufferred a fitting end... Is Heth a Capsuleer as well?
If he is, then the story isn't quite over yet. I have to admit though he's chosen a rather roundabout way of getting back into Caldari hands!
So do the Caldari believe in trials or do they all like to sit around and drink tea? |
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Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
101
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
I don't think it was the Blood Raiders. Those heretics like to leave bodies lying around, often the bodies are loaded with lots of surveillance devices, so any rescuers end up as the Raiders next target.
Weird abductions might fit with Nation's method of operation, but you have to ask, why would Nation want Heth in particular ? since he's no longer in power. Abducting a current head of state and replacing them with an infiltrator would suit Nation's goals, but Heth isn't a current head of state, and is unlikely to return to power as well.
Might be a Jovian connection too, superior technology overcoming all resistance, might fit the physical evidence, but... what would they hope to gain from such a scheme ?
I think, the news might report more on this in a few days, or the alternative, nothing else is found for decades, if not centuries, fuelling conspiracy theories. Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/ |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1933
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sorjat wrote:I was curious when and how the story of Tibus Heth would end... it has been something of an ongoing saga.
While we all know for sure that Admiral Yanala was a capsuleer and on her return to Caldari space she sufferred a fitting end... Is Heth a Capsuleer as well?
If he is, then the story isn't quite over yet. I have to admit though he's chosen a rather roundabout way of getting back into Caldari hands!
So do the Caldari believe in trials or do they all like to sit around and drink tea?
To describe Admiral Yanala's end as fitting is a gross distortion of the truth and an insult to the memory of someone who served the State in a manner reminiscent of the finest traditions of Tovil-Toba's navy.
The former Executor was not, I believe, compatible with the capsule.
There are numerous forms of trial in the State, from simple rulings by experts in jurisprudence to tribunals before a panel. The idea of assembling a 'jury' of unqualified and unsuitable person to rule on a matter is, however, not common in the State. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2907
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
...ok seriously, you people know you don't HAVE to be Amarr to use lasers right? Or Sansa, or Sani Sabik. Anyone can use them...literally, ANY pilot can download the needed know-how to use them, buy the equipment, and use it on a target.
Has anyone thought of the possibility that someone is framing someone else?
|
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
261
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
It's been mentioned a few times yes that it can be a setup to frame someone else and/or throw suspicions off. Keep in mind there's no trace of the crew either, wich does make it more curious as that steps up the effort.
So until we know more, keep up your guard... Could even be Heth himself and his fleetcrew who created these wrecks to get themselves officially labeled 'dead/missing'. Kay that was my take on the crazy theory part. Aurora Arcology Project Newsfeed |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2907
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:It's been mentioned a few times yes that it can be a setup to frame someone else and/or throw suspicions off. Keep in mind there's no trace of the crew either, wich does make it more curious as that steps up the effort.
So until we know more, keep up your guard... Could even be Heth himself and his fleetcrew who created these wrecks to get themselves officially labeled 'dead/missing'. Kay that was my take on the crazy theory part.
Ah ok, I missed those parts skimming. Thank you for pointing it out. Rereading everything it almost seems Blood Raider or Sansha but....makes no sense to nab them. Wasn't that ship piloted by a capsuleer? Could we find a combat record? I've been around Ishaga with boys a while now and that Incursions been there well over a few days. About three, maybe four. Lots of capsuleers in the area too.
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Lyn Farel
Kitzless
601
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 19:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
It might be best to keep in mind that the majority of weapons used currently in New Eden are energy based, and traditionally associated with :
- Amarr - Ammatar - Blood Raiders - Sansha - A lot of mercenaries - Jove / SoCT - SOE - Rogue Drones - Sleepers
Some more unlikely than others considering the context here. |
Isis Dea
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
190
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:It might be best to keep in mind that the majority of weapons used currently in New Eden are energy based, and traditionally associated with :
- Amarr - Ammatar - Blood Raiders - Sansha - A lot of mercenaries - Jove / SoCT - SOE - Rogue Drones - Sleepers
Some more unlikely than others considering the context here.
Well... they weren't really barking on the doors of a hive, so I'd take off the rogue drones from that list.
And they weren't hiding in a wormhole... so safe to say no to sleepers too.
We've not witnessed a Jovian intervention in... gosh, how many years? Likelyhood of this being their first reappearance act? Not good.
Ammatar have no motive. Would be pretty pointless for them to open fire on them. Plus the Amarrians would be crawling the sight if it was them to lay the final blow.
Leaving Amarr, Sansha, SOE, mercs, Blood Raiders... despite how much I want to say the Blood Raiders/Sansha are likely to use Mr. Heth over preserving him.
We also still have the chance of it being framed... |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
475
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:14:00 -
[38] - Quote
I have removed some post regarding software problems. Those in comparison minuscule problems have no place in a discussion about the real topic at hand. ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
1092
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Heth-Haan is enjoying gracious hosting and resting comfortably.
Move along. Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2909
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:28:00 -
[40] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Heth-Haan is enjoying gracious hosting and resting comfortably.
Move along. And suddenly, Heth clones, multiple Blooder Heth Clones.
|
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Julianus Soter
Moira. Villore Accords
172
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
So, just in case people don't have access to their NEOCOM journals, as updated by CONCORD DED datalinks, there is an Sansha Incursion underway in the Ishaga constellation. Those of us who live there, including me, have known this for a week or so now. Aivonen is a border system of the Ishaga constellation, and falls under the area of operations for this Sansha taskforce.
This attack bears significant similarities to an attack on a wormhole space Ducia Foundry facility, which was stripped bare of all human life.
As we would later learn, this would be confirmed through leaked Operation Ishaeka classified reports from the Inner Circle, as having been perpetrated by Sansha's Nation forces.
This would seem to lead to a solid conclusion that Tibus Heth and his Provist followers have been abducted by Sansha Kuvakei's forces.
If following patterns of previous Sansha abductions during the Sansha War of Resurgence, then Tibus Heth and his associates will have been integrated into the Sansha Hive Mind. All of their knowledge and abilities will have been transmuted into the greater collective's knowledge base.
I immediately recommend that Caldari Navy forces go on high alert through all of Citadel, Forge, Black Rise, and Lonetrek. With the detailed military knowledge Tibus Heth would have at Kuvakei's disposal, it is likely a crippling blow could be struck with little to no warning. |
Xadiran
Moira. Villore Accords
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:34:00 -
[42] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Heth-Haan is enjoying gracious hosting and resting comfortably.
Move along.
I doubt that.
In ACTUAL news, nobody seems to have picked up the fact that we are currently fighting against an incursion by Sansha forces in the Ishaga constellation, Aivonon included.
If the Provist forces tried to hide there...well, I think we all know what happens when the Sansha take prisoners. I'd say those they found dead were the lucky ones.
We can't rule out the possibility he escaped, but it doesn't look good for Heth now. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
1092
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Do you remember the first generation of Caldari DUST troopers?
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
1512
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:36:00 -
[44] - Quote
The lack of bodies is probably the key piece of evidence here. For so many ships to be destroyed and not a single survivor or corpse to be floating around is really perplexing. I'd imagine that Blood Raiders and Sansha would only take live prisoners and I highly doubt a battle like that can take place and have everyone survive. The ships could of been destroyed after Heth surrendered but then again, Heth probably wouldn't surrender, at least not without fighting it out for a bit.
Of course there could be some collaboration/conspiracy in play where Heth and his men were picked up by whatever party they've buddied up with and had the ships destroyed once they were safely on board. So keeping all of this in mind, lets look at the potential suspects as Ms. Farel pointed them out.
Amarr/Ammatar: Helping Heth would be political suicide and absolutely destroy Empire-State relations, I highly doubt the Empire has something to do with this. If the Empire fought Heth's fleet and annihilated I'm quite certain they would report it.
Bloodraiders: Unlikely, the Blood Raiders have no business in Black Rise so that shoots down both the potential conflict and collaboration.
Sansha: Sansha destroying Heth's fleet in combat is unlikely, though do to Sansha's tendancy to appear in the most random parts of the cluster, and then vanish without a trace, it's a possibility Heth may have fled to the Nation. This would certainly be a very interesting development.
Mercenaries: Mercs killing off Heth's fleet is unlikely as news of their victory would spread after they receive payment for finishing the madman off. Whichever mercenary group killed Heth would certainly advertise it as it would give them a lot of business. Heth using mercs to cover up his trail seems to be something that would be plausible. Though I doubt he has enough cash on him to pay mercenaries off.
Jove/SOCT: I wouldn't consider the Jove a possibility mainly because of the almost mythical nature about them. Unless there are signs of Jove or SOCT activity, then it's best not to delve into this possibility. Let's not turn this investigation into an episode of "Ancient Jovians" shall we?
SOE: I don't know much about the SOE, but I doubt they would be actively hunting down a fugitive and I doubt Heth would be working with them.
Rogue Drones: Impossible, a rogue drone attack would certainly leave behind bodies and would have to take place within a reasonable distance of a drone hive.
Sleepers: Has any wormhole activity been detected? If not I would say this is impossible as well.
None of the above: This was all an elaborate ruse and none of these groups are responsible.
Considering what we have to work with, I will have to say that either Sansha or a Mercenary group are collaborating with Heth. Either that or we are being duped. Until more evidence arises I will lean towards these theories. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2909
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Do you remember the first generation of Caldari DUST troopers?
What do they gotta do with it?
|
Xadiran
Moira. Villore Accords
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:02:00 -
[46] - Quote
The Caldari Navy should scrub the interior of the ships for nanite debris. If the Sansha boarded, they more than likely used those paralyzing nanites they use planetside. Would explain the lack of bodies, though the size of a Raven may have limited their invasiveness, hence the firefights. |
Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
200
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:19:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tibus Heth has been on the run for months -- if he still has access to anything important to Caldari security, it is a criminal dereliction of duty on the part of the State's various security agencies. While the Sansha's having access to his addled mind is somewhat frustrating for those of us who would rather see him suffer the wrath of Caldari justice, this should not pose any greater danger to the State than Heth already did before; certainly less danger than when he was actually "in charge".
This is yet another case where the State's decentralized security apparatus serves us well; while he may have had access to classified data from Kaalakiota or even the Navy, I suppose, the vast majority of our security forces, under the auspices of the seven other megacorporations, should have little or no exposure due to this rather embarrassing failure on the part of the Caldari Navy. Unlike the Gallente, we are not foolish enough to put all our eggs in one basket. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
1092
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:Tibus Heth has been on the run for months -- if he still has access to anything important to Caldari security, it is a criminal dereliction of duty on the part of the State's various security agencies. While the Sansha's having access to his addled mind is somewhat frustrating for those of us who would rather see him suffer the wrath of Caldari justice, this should not pose any greater danger to the State than Heth already did before; certainly less danger than when he was actually "in charge".
This is yet another case where the State's decentralized security apparatus serves us well; while he may have had access to classified data from Kaalakiota or even the Navy, I suppose, the vast majority of our security forces, under the auspices of the seven other megacorporations, should have little or no exposure due to this rather embarrassing failure on the part of the Caldari Navy. Unlike the Gallente, we are not foolish enough to put all our eggs in one basket.
The Federation took your basket.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
326
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
I heavily advise outsiders against actions in that Constellation. Opposition to Nation activity is not tolerated. Nation business will conclude in due time. Please wait until the area is "safe" before investigating this...disappearance. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1934
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Svetlana Scarlet wrote:Tibus Heth has been on the run for months -- if he still has access to anything important to Caldari security, it is a criminal dereliction of duty on the part of the State's various security agencies. While the Sansha's having access to his addled mind is somewhat frustrating for those of us who would rather see him suffer the wrath of Caldari justice, this should not pose any greater danger to the State than Heth already did before; certainly less danger than when he was actually "in charge".
This is yet another case where the State's decentralized security apparatus serves us well; while he may have had access to classified data from Kaalakiota or even the Navy, I suppose, the vast majority of our security forces, under the auspices of the seven other megacorporations, should have little or no exposure due to this rather embarrassing failure on the part of the Caldari Navy. Unlike the Gallente, we are not foolish enough to put all our eggs in one basket. The Federation took your basket.
And I believe that Repentance Tyrathlion bought yours. We all managed to find new ones, so what of it? |
|
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
1513
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:47:00 -
[51] - Quote
Svetlana Scarlet wrote: Unlike the Gallente, we are not foolish enough to put all our eggs in one basket.
Except for the past five years, you did. Tibus Heth has been the de facto dictator of your nation, especially regarding the military. Corporate wise, he has extensive knowledge of patriot bloc megacorps and virtually everything regarding Kaalakoita.
The fall of Tibus Heth reveals the hubris behind Caldari nationalism. In an effort to become better than us, you only proved you are no more fallible than we are. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Xadiran
Moira. Villore Accords
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
This is seriously not the time or place for Caldari / Gallente squabbling. |
Julianus Soter
Moira. Villore Accords
174
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
Xadiran wrote:This is seriously not the time or place for Caldari / Gallente squabbling.
Agreed with my colleague. This situation impacts ever corner of the Cluster. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1936
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Agreeing with the gentlemen from Moira. About the only thing we can agree on without serious thought and thumbscrews is that Heth needs to be brought either to justice or an expedient end. |
Xadiran
Moira. Villore Accords
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:31:00 -
[55] - Quote
I just worry, if he has been taken by the Sansha now, both of those may be out of reach, Pieter.
I suppose being made a Slave is a terrible punishment on its own, but I definitely would have preferred to see him in front of a Caldari tribunal. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
5106
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
Xadiran wrote:The Caldari Navy should scrub the interior of the ships for nanite debris. If the Sansha boarded, they more than likely used those paralyzing nanites they use planetside. Would explain the lack of bodies, though the size of a Raven may have limited their invasiveness, hence the firefights.
Without commenting on the remainder, a closed, controlled environment is significantly harder to contaminate. Nanites are often extremely delicate on the individual level, not unlike a virus. Deviation from the viable environmental range of the virus -- or nanite -- will cause rapid failure. Often, nanite laboratories use containment procedures not unlike biohazard containment facilities; negative air pressure, heat and EM treatment of air are all methods of maintaining containment. Naturally, researchers are in sealed gear with an internal air supply to ensure that they aren't exposed while within the lab.
Aboard a warship, we can expect air treatment or containment of a comparable level; air flow can be regulated, and air treated or countermeasures deployed to limit exposure to nanites. My suspicion is that these nanites aren't self-reproducing, otherwise any planet attacked would need to be quarantined indefinitely after a Sansha attack.
In any case, I suspect that this saga will need more time to unfold. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Xadiran
Moira. Villore Accords
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:52:00 -
[57] - Quote
I like to think I had the same train-of-thought, just in much fewer words. *laughs*
You are, of course, right Makoto. Still, considering how they use these nanites with impunity, I still believe it would be worthwhile to see if any could be found. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
5108
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
Too verbose for my own good, to be honest. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
82
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 01:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:Tibus Heth has been on the run for months -- if he still has access to anything important to Caldari security, it is a criminal dereliction of duty on the part of the State's various security agencies. While the Sansha's having access to his addled mind is somewhat frustrating for those of us who would rather see him suffer the wrath of Caldari justice, this should not pose any greater danger to the State than Heth already did before; certainly less danger than when he was actually "in charge".
This is yet another case where the State's decentralized security apparatus serves us well; while he may have had access to classified data from Kaalakiota or even the Navy, I suppose, the vast majority of our security forces, under the auspices of the seven other megacorporations, should have little or no exposure due to this rather embarrassing failure on the part of the Caldari Navy. Unlike the Gallente, we are not foolish enough to put all our eggs in one basket.
There's perhaps one thing he may still hold of interest and that's the answer to how a minimal wage factory worker was able to effect what amounts to a nanosecond buyout of Caldari Constructions and then turned that into a rapid overthrow of one of the most politically adept mega-corporate CEOs in the State.
No one's ever been able to follow the money on that deal, to my knowledge. O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
82
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 01:40:00 -
[60] - Quote
As noted by Soter and his Moira colleague, Aivonen is currently a HQ system for the incursion that is progressing in Ishaga constellation. Prior to a fit of overzealous censorship by ISD Ezwal an earlier post of mine had noted that the Caldari Navy have already salvaged the wreckage of the Provist fleet and that no biomass related to it was able to found either.
There are three HQ facilities within the system and two Nation research facilities, along with roaming battlecruiser patrols around the gates. To my knowledge scans of the facilities Nation have established are yet to be carried out.
The system's small and repeated scans of it either by other individual capsuleers or as a co-ordinated effort may reveal something my own scans have not. At present there is minimal pirate or militia activity within the system opening the possibility for a joint action between concerned parties to raid the Nation facilities if a sizeable enough force could be organised. O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
|
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
874
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 04:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
Louella Dougans wrote: Weird abductions might fit with Nation's method of operation, but you have to ask, why would Nation want Heth in particular ? since he's no longer in power. Abducting a current head of state and replacing them with an infiltrator would suit Nation's goals, but Heth isn't a current head of state, and is unlikely to return to power as well.
Detailed information about State security and defense. Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1943
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 05:43:00 -
[62] - Quote
I wouldn't say DETAILED. Especially not after months of being out of power. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
690
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 06:52:00 -
[63] - Quote
Oh, not detailed, everything is fine then.
Say, the Nation could have picked up any guy from the street and they would stand to gain the same amount of information as plugging a probe into Mr. Heth. Or not.
Trying to underplay the importance of the knowledge the late Executor posses, will do us no good when the Nation invade our homes, I say. This situation demands the CEP to call for an emergency meeting.
Those morbid toasters freak me out. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. The Cursed Few
3499
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 11:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
Heth's information will, as several people have pointed out, be months out of date. Passcodes, identification manifests, file access priviledges, contact details, troop deployments, specific personnel assignments, the organisation of subordinates and superiors in various institutions within the State - these will all have changed significantly since Heth was deposed by the CEP.
What will not have changed - cannot have changed - in such a small time span is the organisation of the State's military, the strategies and tactics by which it operates, the methods its intelligence agencies use to gather information. This information is just as valuable - perhaps even more valuable - than access codes or identity manifests. Think of it like this: for a living, I research, design and build starships for the capsuleer market. I can't tell you the root password to each individual ship's mainframe because that automatically changes whenever a new capsuleer enters it. But I can tell you where to shoot it and what to shoot it with, how its engines perform, how fast it turns, what sort of equipment it's likely to be carrying and - with a little bit of information on the current pilot and the variables of the engagement - I can give you an educated guess on how effective it's going to be in a fight.
If he felt inclined (or compelled) to share what he knows with a hostile power, Heth might not be able to ruin the State (he was doing a much better job of that himself when he was in power, anyway) but by all the gods and spirits he could give someone the tools to do some very, very serious damage to it. He was in charge of the State for five whole years - experience like that doesn't magically become irrelevant because he's been out of the loop a few months. Mane 614
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
573
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 11:51:00 -
[65] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:I heavily advise outsiders against actions in that Constellation. Opposition to Nation activity is not tolerated. Nation business will conclude in due time. Please wait until the area is "safe" before investigating this...disappearance.
Look, you, hellish spawn! Return what you took from us, or all your spawnlings, your stations, your planets, families and filthy offsprings will burn! And you won't be allowed to die, until you have something to burn! Only when you will lose everything, you will be burnt as well. If only one hair will fall from head of Tibus Heth, head of your beloved Kuvakei will be displayed on a pike to all freaking cluster! Is it clear? |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
1180
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:04:00 -
[66] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I wouldn't say DETAILED. Especially not after months of being out of power.
He knows the personnel, he knows their private records, their family connections. There's far more to intel than a few passwords and safety protocols.
There's a lot of information in Heth's possession for anyone looking to bribe, blackmail or essentially ransom the higher ups. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
1180
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:I heavily advise outsiders against actions in that Constellation. Opposition to Nation activity is not tolerated. Nation business will conclude in due time. Please wait until the area is "safe" before investigating this...disappearance. Look, you, hellish spawn! Return what you took from us, or all your spawnlings, your stations, your planets, families and filthy offsprings will burn! And you won't be allowed to die, until you have something to burn! Only when you will lose everything, you will be burnt as well. If only one hair will fall from head of Tibus Heth, head of your beloved Kuvakei will be displayed on a pike to all freaking cluster! Is it clear?
While I can't exactly agree with her motives for such action, I applaud her zeal for once. Congratulations on finding a more appropriate, and productive, source for your raging violent tendancies, Pilot Kim. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Solarienne
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
103
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:40:00 -
[68] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:I heavily advise outsiders against actions in that Constellation. Opposition to Nation activity is not tolerated. Nation business will conclude in due time. Please wait until the area is "safe" before investigating this...disappearance. Look, you, hellish spawn! Return what you took from us, or all your spawnlings, your stations, your planets, families and filthy offsprings will burn! And you won't be allowed to die, until you have something to burn! Only when you will lose everything, you will be burnt as well. If only one hair will fall from head of Tibus Heth, head of your beloved Kuvakei will be displayed on a pike to all freaking cluster! Is it clear?
Considering there is really no evidence beyond a popular weapon type being used to kill the ships in quesion, and a lack of bodies, I think your impotent rage is premature.
Simply put, your patrol teams may have been so incompetent as to find the wrecks long after biomass salvagers and the likes had picked the wrecks clean of everything/everyone they thought wouldn't be able to be traced.
Dear leader could be a constituent in a meat smoothie right now. Think about it Kim. YOUR next clone might have a part of your dear leader in its pre-tailoring composition. Wouldn't that be a dream come true for you?
Evi only has the safety of your crew at heart in her statement, I am sure. "Pulled from the grime and uncertainty that my life had been, I opened my eyes for the first time and saw in the distance, oh so far away, Utopia. -áMy path may be the broken backs of those who stand against me, but one day, I will stand at the gates and I will be Home." - Sascha Ishenko; Meditations on Servitude |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
328
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 12:49:00 -
[69] - Quote
Miss Kim, if you wish to continue giving Caracal crews to Nation you are welcome. But I was simply trying to be polite by warning people away from Nation actions. It takes time out of our day to deal with you. Time better spent on our objectives. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
1102
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:12:00 -
[70] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Miss Kim, if you wish to continue giving Caracal crews to Nation you are welcome. But I was simply trying to be polite by warning people away from Nation actions. It takes time out of our day to deal with you. Time better spent on our objectives.
Suffer the stubborn.
I love everything about this entire situation!
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
|
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2919
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:13:00 -
[71] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:I heavily advise outsiders against actions in that Constellation. Opposition to Nation activity is not tolerated. Nation business will conclude in due time. Please wait until the area is "safe" before investigating this...disappearance. Look, you, hellish spawn! Return what you took from us, or all your spawnlings, your stations, your planets, families and filthy offsprings will burn! And you won't be allowed to die, until you have something to burn! Only when you will lose everything, you will be burnt as well. If only one hair will fall from head of Tibus Heth, head of your beloved Kuvakei will be displayed on a pike to all freaking cluster! Is it clear?
So how's that working out for you after 6 ship losses?
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1946
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:27:00 -
[72] - Quote
Please, Kim-haani, don't murder your crews out of impotent rage. Without intelligence as to a specific location, thirty Caracals could quarter that space for a week and not find what you're looking for - if indeed it is still there, or was even there in the first place.
If you need to grieve, do so in private. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
1113
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:27:00 -
[73] - Quote
So Kim keeps feeding Caracal crews to the toasters in a futile effort to locate Heth? That's the very definition of selfishness and insanity. This is a new height of hubris and crazy, even for her.
While I'm loathe to be on the same side of an argument as a Sansha supporter, I have to give credit where it's due:
Solarienne wrote: ...Dear leader could be a constituent in a meat smoothie right now. Think about it Kim. YOUR next clone might have a part of your dear leader in its pre-tailoring composition. Wouldn't that be a dream come true for you?...
I found this response not only on point but absolutely hilarious as well. Good work. When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2920
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:32:00 -
[74] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:So Kim keeps feeding Caracal crews to the toasters in a futile effort to locate Heth? That's the very definition of selfishness and insanity. This is a new height of hubris and crazy, even for her. While I'm loathe to be on the same side of an argument as a Sansha supporter, I have to give credit where it's due: Solarienne wrote: ...Dear leader could be a constituent in a meat smoothie right now. Think about it Kim. YOUR next clone might have a part of your dear leader in its pre-tailoring composition. Wouldn't that be a dream come true for you?...
I found this response not only on point but absolutely hilarious as well. Good work.
Or even better! Look down! Back up. The Provists are now diamonds!
|
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
330
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 15:18:00 -
[75] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:So Kim keeps feeding Caracal crews to the toasters in a futile effort to locate Heth? That's the very definition of selfishness and insanity. This is a new height of hubris and crazy, even for her. While I'm loathe to be on the same side of an argument as a Sansha supporter, I have to give credit where it's due: Solarienne wrote: ...Dear leader could be a constituent in a meat smoothie right now. Think about it Kim. YOUR next clone might have a part of your dear leader in its pre-tailoring composition. Wouldn't that be a dream come true for you?...
I found this response not only on point but absolutely hilarious as well. Good work. Or even better! Look down! Back up. The Provists are now diamonds! There is much better use for good carbon. |
DutchGunner
Direct Support Initiative
47
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:54:00 -
[76] - Quote
As stated by several other capsuleers I think it is safe to agree on these conclusions:
- The fleet with Tibus Heth on board on one of the warships was attacked to take prisoners. This make sense as High ranking personnel was on-board and there are signs of boarding actions and onboard fighting.
- As there have been no broadcasts from capsuleers to claim the glory for what they have done, it is very likely that either capsuleers were not involved at all, or they belong to a specific group or faction. A different option that comes to mind is that it was a mercenary job with some very binding clauses.
- Tibus Heth and the other High ranking personnel should be considered to be alive as they are likely to have very detailed information on State status and operations. It would be wise for the State to indeed review security and prepare for all possible information that these people might have, to be compromised.
I am hereby offering the assistance of the DIRSI corperation to the Caldari State to assist in safeguarding the people who live within it's borders from harm. DIRSI considers this a internal affair of the Caldari State and will not take any actions unless assistance is requested.
DutchGunner CEO of the Direct Support Initiative CONCORD Loyalist |
Ninavask
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:21:00 -
[77] - Quote
Xadiran wrote:The Caldari Navy should scrub the interior of the ships for nanite debris. If the Sansha boarded, they more than likely used those paralyzing nanites they use planetside. Would explain the lack of bodies, though the size of a Raven may have limited their invasiveness, hence the firefights.
If Sansha presence is confirmed, then they might now have access to all the intricate knowledge Heth may have posessed about the State's defenses.
This is a serious situation, not just for the State. If Sansha is allowed to act on any tactical advantage he might have, all four empires may have serious problems on their hands.
Almost 200 years ago, the Empires collaborated to destroy Sansha. Something tells me we might just have to again.
If I remember correctly capsuleer controlled vessels are immune to Sansha nanite infestations which would require a boarding and direct applications. Which would explain the fire fight aboard the capsuleer based ships in Heaths escort. The pilot that flew off with him being a capsuleer if I remember correctly.
We will all have to see what turns up as the wreckage is combed over.
Dr. Ninavask Revan CEO - Commander The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
201
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:28:00 -
[78] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:What will not have changed - cannot have changed - in such a small time span is the organisation of the State's military, the strategies and tactics by which it operates, the methods its intelligence agencies use to gather information. This information is just as valuable - perhaps even more valuable - than access codes or identity manifests. Think of it like this: for a living, I research, design and build starships for the capsuleer market. I can't tell you the root password to each individual ship's mainframe because that automatically changes whenever a new capsuleer enters it. But I can tell you where to shoot it and what to shoot it with, how its engines perform, how fast it turns, what sort of equipment it's likely to be carrying and - with a little bit of information on the current pilot and the variables of the engagement - I can give you an educated guess on how effective it's going to be in a fight.
As I pointed out, he will not have any particular insight into three-quarters of the State's military forces, at least more than that of what hundreds of other analysts can figure out from public sources and estimates; furthermore, most military doctrines are not particularly secret or hidden. The disposition of forces, logistical support, and other specific information will surely have changed significantly over the last several months, and as a result even his information regarding KK and Navy forces will likely be far out of date. Perhaps there may be some knowledge of troop readiness that he may have regarding those, but it's likely most of that could be estimated without any special knowledge.
Considering the friction between Heth and the other megacorporate CEOs, do you really think they gave the Provists more than vaguely accurate information regarding their private forces, especially when it comes to corporations like Ishukone or Nugoeihuvi which have been openly critical of his regime for literally years? |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. The Cursed Few
3503
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:55:00 -
[79] - Quote
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:Considering the friction between Heth and the other megacorporate CEOs, do you really think they gave the Provists more than vaguely accurate information regarding their private forces, especially when it comes to corporations like Ishukone or Nugoeihuvi which have been openly critical of his regime for literally years? Gave? Who said anything about giving? The Provists were always the enemies of the Caldari megacorporations, and openly so. If the megacorporations wouldn't give the Provists useful information on their security forces they'd have obtained it themselves. Back in Heth's glory days, there was always someone willing to sell information to the Provists. Mane 614
|
Constantin Baracca
165
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 22:01:00 -
[80] - Quote
Perhaps what they might gain out of Heth would be nothing military, but entirely in the wealth of legitimacy.
One thing I've learned over the years is that there is a face an empire presents to the rest of the cluster, and the more varied one it has behind closed doors. The official Caldari message is sort of the same one we give to the Mad Emperor, that anything good he did was vastly overwhelmed by the amount of harm. He is persona non grata, the greatest enemy to the State that there is.
Behind closed doors, I would assume that there might be more hidden supporters of Heth than anyone would like to admit. He had a power base in the lower classes that I would assume is not gone, and he had quite a bit of military support. I would think that, despite the Caldari's best efforts, a few weasels survived the cull.
The Caldari might not have many people who support the Sansha, but if Heth even has an infinitesimal following, maybe even just five or ten percent of the population, that is a lot of people who might help the Sansha if they can convince Heth to help. The best way to get Caldari to listen to you is to have a Caldari say it, and Heth doesn't have many friends anymore in the above-ground, civilized world.
Just thinking aloud here, but I think that if Heth was taken by the Sansha, he isn't entirely worthless as a propaganda piece. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"
-Matthew 16:26 |
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
576
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Posted - 2013.10.19 11:03:00 -
[81] - Quote
Solarienne wrote: Simply put, your patrol teams may have been so incompetent as to find the wrecks long after biomass salvagers and the likes had picked the wrecks clean of everything/everyone they thought wouldn't be able to be traced.
Dear leader could be a constituent in a meat smoothie right now. Think about it Kim. YOUR next clone might have a part of your dear leader in its pre-tailoring composition. Wouldn't that be a dream come true for you?
How about we put turn YOU into a meat smoothie for clones, and not your frozen corpse, but YOU, so you can enjoy this marvellous experience and your dreams, when layers of your flesh will be dissolved one of one! I hope your networked sansha members will share your enjoyment of show and feelings.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
576
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Posted - 2013.10.19 11:06:00 -
[82] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Miss Kim, if you wish to continue giving Caracal crews to Nation you are welcome. But I was simply trying to be polite by warning people away from Nation actions. It takes time out of our day to deal with you. Time better spent on our objectives. I would prefer to kill myself instead of getting into Sansha's hands. And I demand the same from my crew members, those who do not agree are asked to find them another deployment. Thus, Sansha from me don't get crewmembers. Only death and destruction. And believe me, during these engagement Sansha lost way more than I did! I was even destroying Sansha's wrecks, so they could salvage nothing! |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
576
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 11:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
Svetlana Scarlet wrote: Considering the friction between Heth and the other megacorporate CEOs, do you really think they gave the Provists more than vaguely accurate information regarding their private forces, especially when it comes to corporations like Ishukone or Nugoeihuvi which have been openly critical of his regime for literally years?
Nugoeihuvi corporation is very dark and have very indecent business, that I prefer no Caldari would ever be involved in. I don't know much about them, but what I heard from other capsuleers, make me think they indeed weren't real Caldari supporters. I don't know much details, but I hope that most of NOH employers were loyal and never betrayed Tibus Heth.
Ishukone Corporation, for whom mostly this war was started, didn't pay our glorious Executor and the State the proper support they should. But I don't blame Ishukone citizens, rather their new CEO, who disgraced himself, his ancestry, his corporation and Caldari name, when he kneeled before gallentean swines, asking for the planet, that already was our. I believe that citizens are very much embarrassed of such CEO and would prefer him to be replaced by Tibus Heth any day.
Besides, other corporations didn't criticize Tibus Heth and thus were loyal to the State. Don't forget, that during this time all of dissident scum, who openly opposed the Executor, were just incompetent managers, who were holding positions only because of nepotism, and were demoted with Heth-haan's reforms. Most of them were exiled or run from the State, and you could find most concentration of them in lawless nullsec regions, but not in the State. |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
331
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Posted - 2013.10.19 11:44:00 -
[84] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Miss Kim, if you wish to continue giving Caracal crews to Nation you are welcome. But I was simply trying to be polite by warning people away from Nation actions. It takes time out of our day to deal with you. Time better spent on our objectives. I would prefer to kill myself instead of getting into Sansha's hands. And I demand the same from my crew members, those who do not agree are asked to find them another deployment. Thus, Sansha from me don't get crewmembers. Only death and destruction. And believe me, during these engagement Sansha lost way more than I did! I was even destroying Sansha's wrecks, so they could salvage nothing!
You're under the mistaken impression your crew would be given choices in the matter. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
576
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Posted - 2013.10.19 11:53:00 -
[85] - Quote
Evi Polevhia wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Evi Polevhia wrote:Miss Kim, if you wish to continue giving Caracal crews to Nation you are welcome. But I was simply trying to be polite by warning people away from Nation actions. It takes time out of our day to deal with you. Time better spent on our objectives. I would prefer to kill myself instead of getting into Sansha's hands. And I demand the same from my crew members, those who do not agree are asked to find them another deployment. Thus, Sansha from me don't get crewmembers. Only death and destruction. And believe me, during these engagement Sansha lost way more than I did! I was even destroying Sansha's wrecks, so they could salvage nothing! You're under the mistaken impression your crew would be given choices in the matter. You're under the mistaken impression they would wait to be saved. |
Darian en Chasteaux
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2013.10.21 06:15:00 -
[86] - Quote
Magua...
I cannot afford the time to delve into this madness of idelaistic weaponry...
By Jove I cannot ...wait I missed most of the musings in here I will return and investigate this matter for myself...
There should be some legitimacy for safe travel; standings should attest to that; perhaps a standing order should not only be conveyed to the High Councils but demanded upon to inusre such safe travel.
It is ludicrous to think such simple ideas seem to evade complexical societal thinking.
Darian en Chasteaux |
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