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Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
101
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
I don't think it was the Blood Raiders. Those heretics like to leave bodies lying around, often the bodies are loaded with lots of surveillance devices, so any rescuers end up as the Raiders next target.
Weird abductions might fit with Nation's method of operation, but you have to ask, why would Nation want Heth in particular ? since he's no longer in power. Abducting a current head of state and replacing them with an infiltrator would suit Nation's goals, but Heth isn't a current head of state, and is unlikely to return to power as well.
Might be a Jovian connection too, superior technology overcoming all resistance, might fit the physical evidence, but... what would they hope to gain from such a scheme ?
I think, the news might report more on this in a few days, or the alternative, nothing else is found for decades, if not centuries, fuelling conspiracy theories. Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/ |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1933
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sorjat wrote:I was curious when and how the story of Tibus Heth would end... it has been something of an ongoing saga.
While we all know for sure that Admiral Yanala was a capsuleer and on her return to Caldari space she sufferred a fitting end... Is Heth a Capsuleer as well?
If he is, then the story isn't quite over yet. I have to admit though he's chosen a rather roundabout way of getting back into Caldari hands!
So do the Caldari believe in trials or do they all like to sit around and drink tea?
To describe Admiral Yanala's end as fitting is a gross distortion of the truth and an insult to the memory of someone who served the State in a manner reminiscent of the finest traditions of Tovil-Toba's navy.
The former Executor was not, I believe, compatible with the capsule.
There are numerous forms of trial in the State, from simple rulings by experts in jurisprudence to tribunals before a panel. The idea of assembling a 'jury' of unqualified and unsuitable person to rule on a matter is, however, not common in the State. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2907
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
...ok seriously, you people know you don't HAVE to be Amarr to use lasers right? Or Sansa, or Sani Sabik. Anyone can use them...literally, ANY pilot can download the needed know-how to use them, buy the equipment, and use it on a target.
Has anyone thought of the possibility that someone is framing someone else?
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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
261
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
It's been mentioned a few times yes that it can be a setup to frame someone else and/or throw suspicions off. Keep in mind there's no trace of the crew either, wich does make it more curious as that steps up the effort.
So until we know more, keep up your guard... Could even be Heth himself and his fleetcrew who created these wrecks to get themselves officially labeled 'dead/missing'. Kay that was my take on the crazy theory part. Aurora Arcology Project Newsfeed |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2907
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:It's been mentioned a few times yes that it can be a setup to frame someone else and/or throw suspicions off. Keep in mind there's no trace of the crew either, wich does make it more curious as that steps up the effort.
So until we know more, keep up your guard... Could even be Heth himself and his fleetcrew who created these wrecks to get themselves officially labeled 'dead/missing'. Kay that was my take on the crazy theory part.
Ah ok, I missed those parts skimming. Thank you for pointing it out. Rereading everything it almost seems Blood Raider or Sansha but....makes no sense to nab them. Wasn't that ship piloted by a capsuleer? Could we find a combat record? I've been around Ishaga with boys a while now and that Incursions been there well over a few days. About three, maybe four. Lots of capsuleers in the area too.
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Lyn Farel
Kitzless
601
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Posted - 2013.10.17 19:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
It might be best to keep in mind that the majority of weapons used currently in New Eden are energy based, and traditionally associated with :
- Amarr - Ammatar - Blood Raiders - Sansha - A lot of mercenaries - Jove / SoCT - SOE - Rogue Drones - Sleepers
Some more unlikely than others considering the context here. |
Isis Dea
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
190
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:It might be best to keep in mind that the majority of weapons used currently in New Eden are energy based, and traditionally associated with :
- Amarr - Ammatar - Blood Raiders - Sansha - A lot of mercenaries - Jove / SoCT - SOE - Rogue Drones - Sleepers
Some more unlikely than others considering the context here.
Well... they weren't really barking on the doors of a hive, so I'd take off the rogue drones from that list.
And they weren't hiding in a wormhole... so safe to say no to sleepers too.
We've not witnessed a Jovian intervention in... gosh, how many years? Likelyhood of this being their first reappearance act? Not good.
Ammatar have no motive. Would be pretty pointless for them to open fire on them. Plus the Amarrians would be crawling the sight if it was them to lay the final blow.
Leaving Amarr, Sansha, SOE, mercs, Blood Raiders... despite how much I want to say the Blood Raiders/Sansha are likely to use Mr. Heth over preserving him.
We also still have the chance of it being framed... |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
475
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:14:00 -
[38] - Quote
I have removed some post regarding software problems. Those in comparison minuscule problems have no place in a discussion about the real topic at hand. ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
1092
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Heth-Haan is enjoying gracious hosting and resting comfortably.
Move along. Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2909
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:28:00 -
[40] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Heth-Haan is enjoying gracious hosting and resting comfortably.
Move along. And suddenly, Heth clones, multiple Blooder Heth Clones.
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Julianus Soter
Moira. Villore Accords
172
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:32:00 -
[41] - Quote
So, just in case people don't have access to their NEOCOM journals, as updated by CONCORD DED datalinks, there is an Sansha Incursion underway in the Ishaga constellation. Those of us who live there, including me, have known this for a week or so now. Aivonen is a border system of the Ishaga constellation, and falls under the area of operations for this Sansha taskforce.
This attack bears significant similarities to an attack on a wormhole space Ducia Foundry facility, which was stripped bare of all human life.
As we would later learn, this would be confirmed through leaked Operation Ishaeka classified reports from the Inner Circle, as having been perpetrated by Sansha's Nation forces.
This would seem to lead to a solid conclusion that Tibus Heth and his Provist followers have been abducted by Sansha Kuvakei's forces.
If following patterns of previous Sansha abductions during the Sansha War of Resurgence, then Tibus Heth and his associates will have been integrated into the Sansha Hive Mind. All of their knowledge and abilities will have been transmuted into the greater collective's knowledge base.
I immediately recommend that Caldari Navy forces go on high alert through all of Citadel, Forge, Black Rise, and Lonetrek. With the detailed military knowledge Tibus Heth would have at Kuvakei's disposal, it is likely a crippling blow could be struck with little to no warning. |
Xadiran
Moira. Villore Accords
6
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:34:00 -
[42] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Heth-Haan is enjoying gracious hosting and resting comfortably.
Move along.
I doubt that.
In ACTUAL news, nobody seems to have picked up the fact that we are currently fighting against an incursion by Sansha forces in the Ishaga constellation, Aivonon included.
If the Provist forces tried to hide there...well, I think we all know what happens when the Sansha take prisoners. I'd say those they found dead were the lucky ones.
We can't rule out the possibility he escaped, but it doesn't look good for Heth now. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
1092
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Do you remember the first generation of Caldari DUST troopers?
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
1512
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:36:00 -
[44] - Quote
The lack of bodies is probably the key piece of evidence here. For so many ships to be destroyed and not a single survivor or corpse to be floating around is really perplexing. I'd imagine that Blood Raiders and Sansha would only take live prisoners and I highly doubt a battle like that can take place and have everyone survive. The ships could of been destroyed after Heth surrendered but then again, Heth probably wouldn't surrender, at least not without fighting it out for a bit.
Of course there could be some collaboration/conspiracy in play where Heth and his men were picked up by whatever party they've buddied up with and had the ships destroyed once they were safely on board. So keeping all of this in mind, lets look at the potential suspects as Ms. Farel pointed them out.
Amarr/Ammatar: Helping Heth would be political suicide and absolutely destroy Empire-State relations, I highly doubt the Empire has something to do with this. If the Empire fought Heth's fleet and annihilated I'm quite certain they would report it.
Bloodraiders: Unlikely, the Blood Raiders have no business in Black Rise so that shoots down both the potential conflict and collaboration.
Sansha: Sansha destroying Heth's fleet in combat is unlikely, though do to Sansha's tendancy to appear in the most random parts of the cluster, and then vanish without a trace, it's a possibility Heth may have fled to the Nation. This would certainly be a very interesting development.
Mercenaries: Mercs killing off Heth's fleet is unlikely as news of their victory would spread after they receive payment for finishing the madman off. Whichever mercenary group killed Heth would certainly advertise it as it would give them a lot of business. Heth using mercs to cover up his trail seems to be something that would be plausible. Though I doubt he has enough cash on him to pay mercenaries off.
Jove/SOCT: I wouldn't consider the Jove a possibility mainly because of the almost mythical nature about them. Unless there are signs of Jove or SOCT activity, then it's best not to delve into this possibility. Let's not turn this investigation into an episode of "Ancient Jovians" shall we?
SOE: I don't know much about the SOE, but I doubt they would be actively hunting down a fugitive and I doubt Heth would be working with them.
Rogue Drones: Impossible, a rogue drone attack would certainly leave behind bodies and would have to take place within a reasonable distance of a drone hive.
Sleepers: Has any wormhole activity been detected? If not I would say this is impossible as well.
None of the above: This was all an elaborate ruse and none of these groups are responsible.
Considering what we have to work with, I will have to say that either Sansha or a Mercenary group are collaborating with Heth. Either that or we are being duped. Until more evidence arises I will lean towards these theories. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2909
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Do you remember the first generation of Caldari DUST troopers?
What do they gotta do with it?
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Xadiran
Moira. Villore Accords
7
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:02:00 -
[46] - Quote
The Caldari Navy should scrub the interior of the ships for nanite debris. If the Sansha boarded, they more than likely used those paralyzing nanites they use planetside. Would explain the lack of bodies, though the size of a Raven may have limited their invasiveness, hence the firefights. |
Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
200
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:19:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tibus Heth has been on the run for months -- if he still has access to anything important to Caldari security, it is a criminal dereliction of duty on the part of the State's various security agencies. While the Sansha's having access to his addled mind is somewhat frustrating for those of us who would rather see him suffer the wrath of Caldari justice, this should not pose any greater danger to the State than Heth already did before; certainly less danger than when he was actually "in charge".
This is yet another case where the State's decentralized security apparatus serves us well; while he may have had access to classified data from Kaalakiota or even the Navy, I suppose, the vast majority of our security forces, under the auspices of the seven other megacorporations, should have little or no exposure due to this rather embarrassing failure on the part of the Caldari Navy. Unlike the Gallente, we are not foolish enough to put all our eggs in one basket. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
1092
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:Tibus Heth has been on the run for months -- if he still has access to anything important to Caldari security, it is a criminal dereliction of duty on the part of the State's various security agencies. While the Sansha's having access to his addled mind is somewhat frustrating for those of us who would rather see him suffer the wrath of Caldari justice, this should not pose any greater danger to the State than Heth already did before; certainly less danger than when he was actually "in charge".
This is yet another case where the State's decentralized security apparatus serves us well; while he may have had access to classified data from Kaalakiota or even the Navy, I suppose, the vast majority of our security forces, under the auspices of the seven other megacorporations, should have little or no exposure due to this rather embarrassing failure on the part of the Caldari Navy. Unlike the Gallente, we are not foolish enough to put all our eggs in one basket.
The Federation took your basket.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
326
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
I heavily advise outsiders against actions in that Constellation. Opposition to Nation activity is not tolerated. Nation business will conclude in due time. Please wait until the area is "safe" before investigating this...disappearance. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1934
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:Svetlana Scarlet wrote:Tibus Heth has been on the run for months -- if he still has access to anything important to Caldari security, it is a criminal dereliction of duty on the part of the State's various security agencies. While the Sansha's having access to his addled mind is somewhat frustrating for those of us who would rather see him suffer the wrath of Caldari justice, this should not pose any greater danger to the State than Heth already did before; certainly less danger than when he was actually "in charge".
This is yet another case where the State's decentralized security apparatus serves us well; while he may have had access to classified data from Kaalakiota or even the Navy, I suppose, the vast majority of our security forces, under the auspices of the seven other megacorporations, should have little or no exposure due to this rather embarrassing failure on the part of the Caldari Navy. Unlike the Gallente, we are not foolish enough to put all our eggs in one basket. The Federation took your basket.
And I believe that Repentance Tyrathlion bought yours. We all managed to find new ones, so what of it? |
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Fredfredbug4
Eve Defence Force Cult of War
1513
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:47:00 -
[51] - Quote
Svetlana Scarlet wrote: Unlike the Gallente, we are not foolish enough to put all our eggs in one basket.
Except for the past five years, you did. Tibus Heth has been the de facto dictator of your nation, especially regarding the military. Corporate wise, he has extensive knowledge of patriot bloc megacorps and virtually everything regarding Kaalakoita.
The fall of Tibus Heth reveals the hubris behind Caldari nationalism. In an effort to become better than us, you only proved you are no more fallible than we are. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it! |
Xadiran
Moira. Villore Accords
8
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
This is seriously not the time or place for Caldari / Gallente squabbling. |
Julianus Soter
Moira. Villore Accords
174
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
Xadiran wrote:This is seriously not the time or place for Caldari / Gallente squabbling.
Agreed with my colleague. This situation impacts ever corner of the Cluster. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1936
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Agreeing with the gentlemen from Moira. About the only thing we can agree on without serious thought and thumbscrews is that Heth needs to be brought either to justice or an expedient end. |
Xadiran
Moira. Villore Accords
9
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:31:00 -
[55] - Quote
I just worry, if he has been taken by the Sansha now, both of those may be out of reach, Pieter.
I suppose being made a Slave is a terrible punishment on its own, but I definitely would have preferred to see him in front of a Caldari tribunal. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
5106
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
Xadiran wrote:The Caldari Navy should scrub the interior of the ships for nanite debris. If the Sansha boarded, they more than likely used those paralyzing nanites they use planetside. Would explain the lack of bodies, though the size of a Raven may have limited their invasiveness, hence the firefights.
Without commenting on the remainder, a closed, controlled environment is significantly harder to contaminate. Nanites are often extremely delicate on the individual level, not unlike a virus. Deviation from the viable environmental range of the virus -- or nanite -- will cause rapid failure. Often, nanite laboratories use containment procedures not unlike biohazard containment facilities; negative air pressure, heat and EM treatment of air are all methods of maintaining containment. Naturally, researchers are in sealed gear with an internal air supply to ensure that they aren't exposed while within the lab.
Aboard a warship, we can expect air treatment or containment of a comparable level; air flow can be regulated, and air treated or countermeasures deployed to limit exposure to nanites. My suspicion is that these nanites aren't self-reproducing, otherwise any planet attacked would need to be quarantined indefinitely after a Sansha attack.
In any case, I suspect that this saga will need more time to unfold. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Xadiran
Moira. Villore Accords
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:52:00 -
[57] - Quote
I like to think I had the same train-of-thought, just in much fewer words. *laughs*
You are, of course, right Makoto. Still, considering how they use these nanites with impunity, I still believe it would be worthwhile to see if any could be found. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
5108
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:56:00 -
[58] - Quote
Too verbose for my own good, to be honest. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs. |
Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
82
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Posted - 2013.10.18 01:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:Tibus Heth has been on the run for months -- if he still has access to anything important to Caldari security, it is a criminal dereliction of duty on the part of the State's various security agencies. While the Sansha's having access to his addled mind is somewhat frustrating for those of us who would rather see him suffer the wrath of Caldari justice, this should not pose any greater danger to the State than Heth already did before; certainly less danger than when he was actually "in charge".
This is yet another case where the State's decentralized security apparatus serves us well; while he may have had access to classified data from Kaalakiota or even the Navy, I suppose, the vast majority of our security forces, under the auspices of the seven other megacorporations, should have little or no exposure due to this rather embarrassing failure on the part of the Caldari Navy. Unlike the Gallente, we are not foolish enough to put all our eggs in one basket.
There's perhaps one thing he may still hold of interest and that's the answer to how a minimal wage factory worker was able to effect what amounts to a nanosecond buyout of Caldari Constructions and then turned that into a rapid overthrow of one of the most politically adept mega-corporate CEOs in the State.
No one's ever been able to follow the money on that deal, to my knowledge. O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
Ollie Rundle
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
82
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Posted - 2013.10.18 01:40:00 -
[60] - Quote
As noted by Soter and his Moira colleague, Aivonen is currently a HQ system for the incursion that is progressing in Ishaga constellation. Prior to a fit of overzealous censorship by ISD Ezwal an earlier post of mine had noted that the Caldari Navy have already salvaged the wreckage of the Provist fleet and that no biomass related to it was able to found either.
There are three HQ facilities within the system and two Nation research facilities, along with roaming battlecruiser patrols around the gates. To my knowledge scans of the facilities Nation have established are yet to be carried out.
The system's small and repeated scans of it either by other individual capsuleers or as a co-ordinated effort may reveal something my own scans have not. At present there is minimal pirate or militia activity within the system opening the possibility for a joint action between concerned parties to raid the Nation facilities if a sizeable enough force could be organised. O. Rundle The Synenose Accord Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated. |
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