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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Makalu Zarya
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
131
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Posted - 2013.10.29 01:05:00 -
[211] - Quote
Tappits wrote:
You have been known to be completely and utterly wrong in the past, so who knows.
i'm sure you have concrete examples here? since you seem to want to make this personal. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
696
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 01:52:00 -
[212] - Quote
eXistentiA wrote:leave it as it is now on the test server, Having that sudden drop out is good for both the guy warping and the guy on the field and for those that think otherwise , it wont be long before they adapt. Simply saying its bad if someone can get on grid without any notice, but on the flip side, that some someone has much less time to take in and react to the space they have landed in. Its an awesome double edge blade.
Its not "not noticed" its "not able to be seen"
And its not "less time to react" its "by the time your interface updates you are already scrammed" |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
706
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 07:06:00 -
[213] - Quote
Please enlighten me...
How come everyone is saying that you are scrammed before you even see the person on grid? Strikes me as strange that apparently the server tickrate is higher for ships with high warpspeed and lower for ships on grid. You wouldn't lie on the internet, would you?! |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
790
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 07:54:00 -
[214] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Please enlighten me...
How come everyone is saying that you are scrammed before you even see the person on grid? Strikes me as strange that apparently the server tickrate is higher for ships with high warpspeed and lower for ships on grid. You wouldn't lie on the internet, would you?!
Agreed, this wasn't what I was seeing when I was testing it... I saw grids being loaded after I landed... both for me in high warp speed interceptor and for pilots already on grid... they would see me same time I saw them...
long time ago, they made overview refresh much faster... this includes when someone spawns on grid.... but it still doesn't change the fact that a dictor landing on you doesn't have to lock you, and thus you are tackled the same tick as he lands, all he has to do is spam his launcher while in warp...
an interceptor will take 2 sec to tackle you... Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Giullare
Insurgent New Eden Tribe RAZOR Alliance
22
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Posted - 2013.10.29 08:06:00 -
[215] - Quote
Dictor's pilot landing on spot or cloaky prober know he has to bubble on landing so he can spam f1 while still in warp, grid loaded --> bubble up.
Mid range fleet shooting it's primaries ordered by distance aligned full speed to warp out can't spam warp for obvious reasons, so as soon fleet see dictor it's too late.
As someone said before even having 1 " monkey dude " in fleet which only task is to spam d-scan (14.4) every ******* second of it's miserable life u still have to be lucky to scan the dictor in that 1 sec. interval and this will anyway make your fleet warp out even if a dictor warp from gate to gate and not from gate to battlefield.
So yes, future is t3 nullified fleets, great improvement to gameplay |
Montevius Williams
The Scope Gallente Federation
645
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 08:26:00 -
[216] - Quote
Makalu Zarya wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:We're aware of this behaviour and of your objections.
I disagree with your assessment that this is a major problem, but you are of course welcome to your opinion. We'll be keeping a close eye on this both before launch and after.
I suggest having subcaps that can kill dictors with you. you don't play the game I do. What i said is not an opinion it's assessment of the situation based on simple facts and years of experience, what you said is a load of usual CCP bullshit that we get every time you don't agree with what we say and then eventually backtrack. so let me just say this straight up. YOU ARE WRONG. When people unsub their supers and you lose 1000s of active characters maybe you'll listen.
Relax buddy. "The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB |
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
840
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 09:01:00 -
[217] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Dirk Action wrote:the warp speed changes are fine
the ACCELERATION from sublight speed to FTL speed that is the warp bubble is fine
the DECELERATION from FTL speed that is the warp bubble to sublight speed is not fine
Here's the key thing to remember. Virtually the entire impact of these changes is ties to deceleration. Warp top speed isn't actually changing much with the changes (and is actually going down for the fast ships), the problem we're fixing with this whole feature is how acceleration and deceleration used to be the same for all ships. The part of this change you don't like is also virtually the only part that has any impact
I like this side effect, change it so its like that for all ships.
variable acceleration... variable WARP ...then no desacceleration, just BOOOOOM !!! a flash and you see a ship in grid, that come of warp, ready to receive commands and that you can engage right away instead of issuing commands and receive that annoying message "ship is still in warp".
Just like we see ships coming out of warp in the latest 2 start trek movies.
This side effect might be a good thing, its also a game change on top of the speed changes. Now just make it the same for all the ships to make it fair. Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-) |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
222
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 09:01:00 -
[218] - Quote
Forlorn Wongraven wrote:Remember how this forum told CCP that the new launcher is broken as ****? or how the uni inv was a piece of crap? cor how it was bad to introduce WIS? or how the nex "exploration" was bad? or..... you get the idea.....
why the hell are you even opening this forum, test server and bother replying ccp, if this is only to told us "GTFO we do what we want and will ignore you anyway"? what is the point here?
guess you guy need another massive riots, but i doubt even this will make you understand.
at least this part of the forum is famous in video game indusrty: "how not to manage a test server feedback" |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
222
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 09:17:00 -
[219] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Please enlighten me...
How come everyone is saying that you are scrammed before you even see the person on grid? Strikes me as strange that apparently the server tickrate is higher for ships with high warpspeed and lower for ships on grid. You wouldn't lie on the internet, would you?! plain and simple, the grid you will land one is already loaded, and need to refresh, this is where the magic take place, there is a 1 sec delay between each refresh, so there are times when you are on grid witha ship and he is not able to see you, you have not him scrammed yet, because you need 2 tick (at least 1 for lock, another for point to actually apply), but with a fast lock stilletto for example, you can already launch the lock process, meaning the moment you actually appears on tgt overview, your lock is already in progress / established.
if you are against say a rock, the moment you appear on his overview, he is already locked, and the next second point is established
now couple that to the stiletto warp speed + the fact that dscan can be refreshed only once / 3 sec, do the mth, this can actually happen with the rock NEVER having he stiletto on d-scan at any moment eve,n if he is spamming the dscan like a monkey on steroids
i did the test myself with both a corpmate and my 2nd accoutn, there are many many occurences where you are on grid with them and you are not on their overview, and during this time,you CAN lock them / drop a bubble / smartbomb etc.....
trust me it's weird to actually take damage form a smartbobm appearing out of nowhere, when you are the only one on grid...... |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
595
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 10:41:00 -
[220] - Quote
Yay forums ate my post (again) Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District |
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My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 10:42:00 -
[221] - Quote
This is going to be hilarious as hell. Going to shake up the game hard. |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
224
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 13:22:00 -
[222] - Quote
Turelus wrote:Yay forums ate my post (again) - rewrite. CCP Fozzie wrote:It's also very vulnerable to anti-support fire. Like I said, I'm not currently convinced that the warp speeds possible in the current Rubicon design are detrimental to the game overall. I will however be watching them very carefully so if you disagree please take advantage of the power of these ships as much as you can and enjoy the benefits while demonstrating to us why we should change it. I would recommend taking the time to organise a mass test if this is an issue players feel strongly enough about. This will give you more data and the player base some confidence that their worries are taken seriously. Letting it go live in a state which might really upset people with the mentality of "we can patch it later" is the EA way of working, look how much we like them. Interceptors being able to warp so fast they can skip dscan is an issue. This isn't an issue with warp speeds but rather the dscan limitations. Ships instantly appearing on grid and being able to lock before you can react is also an issue. Everyone in EVE loves ships exploding but this should be the fault of the pilot not because he has no chance due to game mechanics. These changes are another huge blow on making people want to live in NullSec, with this release mining in NullSec is almost dead as any interceptor can be in system and warp to a Grav site (which don't offer hidden protection any more) before miners can react and warp out. This goes for Battleships running anomalies as well, jump in ignore bubble and warp to sanctum you will most likely catch something. The issues above don't fall entirely on the warp changes, or the interceptor changes but lots of changes to EVE over the years and these new changes being added without revision of content needed to counter them. as it has been said earlier, one little change would solve this and many other issues: increase te server tick!
but ccp doesn't even bother looking at it, i suspect hey have a chrome / firefox extension that prevent any post containing "server tick" in it from being even displayed!.........wich is pathetic tbh.... |
Gothikia
Regeneration
45
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 13:42:00 -
[223] - Quote
seth Hendar wrote:[quote=Turelus]
but ccp doesn't even bother looking at it, i suspect hey have a chrome / firefox extension that prevent any post containing "server tick" in it from being even displayed!.........wich is pathetic tbh....
I don't think that will be as easy as you think it will be. Almost every service within EVE most likely relies on the fact that server tick is a constant value and things are implemented knowing what that value is. If you change it, there's a very high possibility that you will break EVE. :) <3 Gothie |
Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
81
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 13:47:00 -
[224] - Quote
Even if this turns out as bad as the doomsayers say, it will be interesting to see how in-game tactics change to combat these changes.
The ship that came from nowhere and got me may not be possible in Eve atm without ban-able hacks, but happens in life more often than not.
You should never have perfect intel and believe that you are perfectly safe unless you are docked.
Now if this will turn out to be game-breaking, or just make life more difficult, I'd like to wait an see.
It shall be fun in either case.
|
ScheenK
Unknown Soldiers Against ALL Authorities
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 14:43:00 -
[225] - Quote
Tappits wrote:I am from PL and I like all the changes, This is all..... I would also like to thank Makalu Zarya for been a total knob head and using the GÇ£When people unsub their supers and you lose 1000s of active characters maybe you'll listen.GÇ¥ Line. I would just like to say this to him GÇ£YOU ARE WRONGGÇ¥ just like the other 10000 times people like you have said people will unsub there supers because of this and that. Yet here we are 2013 and still people have them are still subbed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y6TqxLmxIo
the last super changes involved, taking away all drones except fighters and bombers, which affected them by needing a subcap fleet for killing of dictors and such, these imminent changes affect supers direct survivability, so yea i can see ppl unsubbing for that simple fact |
Benar Ellecon
WaKE Inc
10
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 15:03:00 -
[226] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Dirk Action wrote:the warp speed changes are fine
the ACCELERATION from sublight speed to FTL speed that is the warp bubble is fine
the DECELERATION from FTL speed that is the warp bubble to sublight speed is not fine
Here's the key thing to remember. Virtually the entire impact of these changes is ties to deceleration. Warp top speed isn't actually changing much with the changes (and is actually going down for the fast ships), the problem we're fixing with this whole feature is how acceleration and deceleration used to be the same for all ships. The part of this change you don't like is also virtually the only part that has any impact I like this side effect, change it so its like that for all ships. variable acceleration... variable WARP ...then no desacceleration, just BOOOOOM !!! a flash and you see a ship in grid, that come of warp, ready to receive commands and that you can engage right away instead of issuing commands and receive that annoying message "ship is still in warp". Just like we see ships coming out of warp in the latest 2 start trek movies. This side effect might be a good thing, its also a game change on top of the speed changes. Now just make it the same for all the ships to make it fair.
This ^ It only makes sense, getting into warp should be based on the ship size/mass but coming out should be the same for all: instant stop. That would make it more even on the landing grid for all. +1 for this change. Fly with your hair on FIRE! |
Gosti Kahanid
Farstriders Apocalypse Now.
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 15:10:00 -
[227] - Quote
Gothikia wrote:seth Hendar wrote:[quote=Turelus]
but ccp doesn't even bother looking at it, i suspect hey have a chrome / firefox extension that prevent any post containing "server tick" in it from being even displayed!.........wich is pathetic tbh.... I don't think that will be as easy as you think it will be. Almost every service within EVE most likely relies on the fact that server tick is a constant value and things are implemented knowing what that value is. If you change it, there's a very high possibility that you will break EVE. :)
Actualy, it's really easy to change, even a dev said so, but what some people seem to forget, when you increase the serverticks, you increase the server load. So with 2Hz instead of 1Hz, TiDi will spike with 250 people in a system instead of 500.
So yeah, increasing Serverticks without using better Hardware would be a bad idea |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
791
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 15:33:00 -
[228] - Quote
Gosti Kahanid wrote:Gothikia wrote:seth Hendar wrote:[quote=Turelus]
but ccp doesn't even bother looking at it, i suspect hey have a chrome / firefox extension that prevent any post containing "server tick" in it from being even displayed!.........wich is pathetic tbh.... I don't think that will be as easy as you think it will be. Almost every service within EVE most likely relies on the fact that server tick is a constant value and things are implemented knowing what that value is. If you change it, there's a very high possibility that you will break EVE. :) Actualy, it's really easy to change, even a dev said so, but what some people seem to forget, when you increase the serverticks, you increase the server load. So with 2Hz instead of 1Hz, TiDi will spike with 250 people in a system instead of 500. So yeah, increasing Serverticks without using better Hardware would be a bad idea
Tidi can spike from even just 20-50 people jumping a gate. but honestly I don't think that action itself would spike it more than before at 2Hz... main load would come from location checks of stuff in space (range, speed, all that), then commands from pilots... so the stuff in space would probably get a static almost double load from it... but player induced lag (minus their ship being in space, which counts as the first thing) commands like shoot or such... would increase with how much they are spamming an action. Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Krimishkev
The Revolutionaries
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 15:38:00 -
[229] - Quote
Sorry CCP but this breaks your game, and you're playing it off as a cool new feature? You cant seriously think Veteran players are that naive?
Lets just be honest here. Someone was messing around with stats and figured this out. "Oh look, hahaha my ship appears on grid instantly wouldnt that **** everyone off.
This is the same kind of issue as the "Infinite Gun" problem that Apaerature Harmonics exploited some time ago, except instead of a player breaking the game, CCP is breaking their own game for who honestly knows what reason.
I have no problem with warp speed, or deceleration speeds. But give the player a visual queue that someone is about to arrive on grid before they actually arrive. Its only fair, otherwise this coupled with a cloak on and interdictor. Completely overpowered.
AFK Cloaky Camping, with and Instagrid Interdictor, yeah.... mhm, thats sounds like working as intended if you want more people to buy PLEX to play your game because they are denied the ability to use their space for ratting.
Oh yeah, I just killed two birds with one stone.
AFK Cloaky Camping and Instagrid Interdictors.
Man, I'm awesome.
[EDIT]
Oh the simple fix, make the grids bigger. |
ScheenK
Unknown Soldiers Against ALL Authorities
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 15:39:00 -
[230] - Quote
This entire thread is absolutely insane
To even think this issue is still an issue is ********
CCP ffs get your **** together, what sense does it make to be pointed and/or bubbled by something I havent even seen yet, nor would I see on dscan if I had perfect timing.
I know eve stretches the boundaries with being realistic, but it always stretched them in a way that made sense, or worked for the best. for example, orbits of stations and pos's etc, they dont actually orbit, for various and obvious reasons. But to be on a reasonable realistic scale, a ship would not or should not, just instantly "be" out of warp, these changes would ultimately send the pod and pilot through dictors heat/windshield, this seems funny to even think about but, seriously, change the deceleration atleast, to give ppl a chance, all we are asking for is a chance to save our ships. One does not simply appear out of warp, actually you dont even appear, you just drop ur bubble, mwd out and warp off. awesome gg, cant wait |
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
911
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 15:47:00 -
[231] - Quote
I'd have to look for the post, but CCP Veritas has already said that they know the per-tick cost of things and they know with absolute certainty that those costs scale pretty linearly.
If you double the rate of server ticks, you double the load on the servers. You double the cost of everything in the game. That means that at a 2Hz tick, CCP would need twice the computing power it has now in order to get the same level of performance we currently have with 1Hz ticks. Is anyone going to help them refactor the code to be multi-threaded and/or donate to them server equipment that's twice as powerful as what they have now? (Does it even exist?) |
Dirk Action
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
193
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 16:04:00 -
[232] - Quote
v0v
let it be known that the players tried to warn the devs
it'shappening.gif |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
224
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 16:16:00 -
[233] - Quote
Gothikia wrote:seth Hendar wrote:[quote=Turelus]
but ccp doesn't even bother looking at it, i suspect hey have a chrome / firefox extension that prevent any post containing "server tick" in it from being even displayed!.........wich is pathetic tbh.... I don't think that will be as easy as you think it will be. Almost every service within EVE most likely relies on the fact that server tick is a constant value and things are implemented knowing what that value is. If you change it, there's a very high possibility that you will break EVE. :) well, this is not what was said a few month ago, CCP stated they didn't thought it was necessary at that time even if it was an easy change to do.
anyway, this doesn't change the fact that this need a clear answer, because this is the real issue, so a clear statement from CCP about this is required for a year at least, and is STILL NOT AVAILABLE.
i could understand if it was complicated or if there was any issues caused by this, but so far the only attitude from CCP on the subject is just ignoring the feedback, and this is not good at all.
at least an aknowledgement of the issue, because it is clear and easy test are able to narrow it down to the server tick being too slow, but it seems that even that is too much to ask.... |
Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution
121
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 16:18:00 -
[234] - Quote
Krimishkev wrote:if you want more people to buy PLEX to play your game because they are denied the ability to use their space for ratting.
Greed is good Don't Panic.
|
seth Hendar
I love you miners
224
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 16:22:00 -
[235] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:I'd have to look for the post, but CCP Veritas has already said that they know the per-tick cost of things and they know with absolute certainty that those costs scale pretty linearly.
If you double the rate of server ticks, you double the load on the servers. You double the cost of everything in the game. That means that at a 2Hz tick, CCP would need twice the computing power it has now in order to get the same level of performance we currently have with 1Hz ticks. Is anyone going to help them refactor the code to be multi-threaded and/or donate to them server equipment that's twice as powerful as what they have now? (Does it even exist?) said level of performance is on the bad state since last years winter update, when somewhere a setting was messedd up and made everything laggy all over the place...and the servers remain the same, and don't tell about nb of players because this even happen when the load is very low like right after DT.
a delay has been introduced somewhere in the code, but no one wants to take a look at it, even if it breaks some basic mechanics of the game, this whole insta on grid thing is just another occurence caused by this, time to get your hand on it CCP.
regarding the improved code / hardware, maybe it would have been a better bet to actually improve one of those or both but to waste money on dust, wich is after all just money thrown by the window (oh look, we, eve player, didn't saw it coming AT ALL ...) they never learn...... |
Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
81
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 17:27:00 -
[236] - Quote
ScheenK wrote:This entire thread is absolutely insane
To even think this issue is still an issue is ********
CCP ffs get your **** together, what sense does it make to be pointed and/or bubbled by something I havent even seen yet, nor would I see on dscan if I had perfect timing.
I know eve stretches the boundaries with being realistic, but it always stretched them in a way that made sense, or worked for the best. for example, orbits of stations and pos's etc, they dont actually orbit, for various and obvious reasons. But to be on a reasonable realistic scale, a ship would not or should not, just instantly "be" out of warp, these changes would ultimately send the pod and pilot through dictors heat/windshield, this seems funny to even think about but, seriously, change the deceleration atleast, to give ppl a chance, all we are asking for is a chance to save our ships. One does not simply appear out of warp, actually you dont even appear, you just drop ur bubble, mwd out and warp off. awesome gg, cant wait
I am so amazed that CCP hasn't paid attention to this threadnaught..
Oh wait.
|
Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
224
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 17:37:00 -
[237] - Quote
Deleted |
Darius JOHNSON
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
111
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:06:00 -
[238] - Quote
These changes all sound great to me and anyone that disagrees obviously doesn't know what they're talking about |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2072
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:43:00 -
[239] - Quote
Darius JOHNSON wrote:These changes all sound great to me and anyone that disagrees obviously doesn't know what they're talking about Everything you post is a troll. You don't actually care at all, you sham. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Makalu Zarya
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 22:15:00 -
[240] - Quote
We discovered another funny side effect of all this which I forgot about. The Rancer type smartbombing gate camps no longer work for ships that appear instantly, since you simply don't load grid until you are already on the gate. Negative ten won't be too happy about this. |
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