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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Lidia Caderu
Cobalt Academy Catastrophic Uprising
22
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Posted - 2013.10.23 11:04:00 -
[481] - Quote
Keres: How about instead of this:
Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 15% bonus to warp disruptor range per level (+5% per level) 10% reduction in warp disruptor capacitor need per level
give this:
Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 15% bonus to warp disruptor range per level (+5% per level) 5% reduced capacitor recharge time
will be much more efficient with small bonus change |
Kibitt Kallinikov
Arma Purgatorium Templis Dragonaors
0
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Posted - 2013.10.26 10:19:00 -
[482] - Quote
Delete please? It posted an awkward quote only post. |
Kibitt Kallinikov
Arma Purgatorium Templis Dragonaors
0
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Posted - 2013.10.26 10:19:00 -
[483] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Okay I've updated the OP with the newest iteration.
Highlights include:
Bonuses adjusted for Kitsune, Keres and Hyena to shorten the range slightly for each Mass increased for all four by 10% Lowered lock range to match t1 disruption frigs Lowered signature radius for all four Small adjustments to maxvelocity for some and drone bandwidth tweaks for Sentinel and Keres Two main things going on.
First, lowering the ewar ranges should draw them in a bit closer to the fight. The Kitsune will still be the longest effective range EAF but that's natural to ECM and there's not much more we can do. It was limited before only by the absurdly low lock range and while I don't want it to be out at 100k being effective, there's also no sensible way to pull it closer than this, but I think that's fine.
Second, adding mass and making some maxvelocity changes while also lowering their sig radius should make them easier to catch for frigs and other anti-support, while also increasing their survivability vs larger targets trying to shoot them from far away. This helps push them towards a more recon-ish play style and further from interceptors, which is what we want.
I expect that those of you hoping to use these will be a little disappointed, while those of expecting to fight against them might not think this is enough. Hopefully that means we are fairly close to a good spot for them. Regardless, please let me know what you think.
It's nice that you're bringing them in a bit, but one of the issues with these frigates is found in the Hyena: It has good range, nice speed, but there is no real reason to have the 3rd high slot, and the ship has fitting space issues. If it had a 5th mid, it could put up an actual shield tank on some fits, whereas speed tankers or the like would use that mid for another web, a long point, or a Target Painter. Instead, you're left with MWD + 2-3x Web, optional long point (but why fly webz in a gang when you're near point range if you don't have a warp disruptor?)
Disruption ships are valued for much more than their form of "disruption". For instance, the Bhaalgorn is used often, and it certainly wouldn't be if it didn't have the tank that it had. It would just be too expensive for something that is supposed to suck the energy out of enemy ships but pops instantly. These frigates DO tend to pop instantly, so they are like Combat Recon ships with no damage bonuses, similar range with usually less EWAR strength, little fitting space, and almost no tank. What do they get for it? Well, they get to be frigates. Smaller sig, more scan resolution (can be changed by SeBo's on Recon) somewhat faster (does frigate speed matter to a Rapier? Probably not). On top of this, consider how the Arbitrator is flown. It has drones to fight and kill its enemies with, but it is not a clone of the Vexor because the Vexor can field more drone power than the Arbitrator can, and the Vexor sports greater fitting stats, allowing it to have greater tank and DPS. This is how I think almost all EWAR ships should be - ships that sacrifice parts of the ship's electronics and powergrid to use more advanced electronic and engineering equipment. Another good is example is the Bellicose compared to the Caracal. In this case, the ships are extremely similar except the Caracal has better range, but the Bellicose can TP for better application on smaller targets.
EDIT: What exactly did CCP have in mind when the EAS class was made? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
578
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Posted - 2013.10.26 11:47:00 -
[484] - Quote
i agree with the above's posts sentiments these should be mini recon frigate versions with more focus the shorter secondary e-war and become like e-war assault frigs like recons are too HAC's Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
37
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Posted - 2013.10.26 19:45:00 -
[485] - Quote
I had hoped at some point they'd rebalance caldari t2 ewar boats to use target painters, as they're more directly applicable to missiles, and the other races get 2 bonuses. Sadly, this will probably not come to pass. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
613
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Posted - 2013.10.28 09:55:00 -
[486] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:I had hoped at some point they'd rebalance caldari t2 ewar boats to use target painters, as they're more directly applicable to missiles, and the other races get 2 bonuses. Sadly, this will probably not come to pass.
wnat to get our TargetPaitner bonuses on the CREcon Cruisers? Feel free. Just give us ANY bonus on its place. Even lasers usa bonus woudl be better :/
TP bonus is nearly wasted when you ahve a web bonus as well, because the web will always have precedence. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
25
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Posted - 2013.10.28 15:03:00 -
[487] - Quote
Enough with the TPs. Just remove all TP bonus from ALL ships, and buff TPs. Despite being a *force multiplier* of some sort, designing ships around TPs ends up in a complete disaster most of the time (poor vigil). |
elitatwo
Congregatio
131
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Posted - 2013.10.29 15:15:00 -
[488] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:Enough with the TPs. Just remove all TP bonus from ALL ships, and buff TPs. Despite being a *force multiplier* of some sort, designing ships around TPs ends up in a complete disaster most of the time (poor vigil).
But don't forget if you "pinned" your target down with your webs and paint them, missile boats will rejoice and can do real harm.
I think webbs + painters work great in tandem
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
618
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Posted - 2013.10.29 15:31:00 -
[489] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:Enough with the TPs. Just remove all TP bonus from ALL ships, and buff TPs. Despite being a *force multiplier* of some sort, designing ships around TPs ends up in a complete disaster most of the time (poor vigil).
beign a force multiplier doe snto mean its good. Multiply your force by 0 and you wont be in a good place :P
And No webs do not go well with painters. They fight for same slots, and a second web is 99.9% of time better than a painter.
Also the paintere range bonus is STUPID, because the hyena will operate in the range limit of its WEB range, that is already inside the normal painter range.
Just remove the fake paitner range bonus.. and give us 5% more cowbell per level! "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.10.30 14:47:00 -
[490] - Quote
still no news about "tracking disruptors" and missile.
When tracking disruptors will be some effect on missile |
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Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
165
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Posted - 2013.10.30 19:15:00 -
[491] - Quote
Alghara wrote:still no news about "tracking disruptors" and missile.
When tracking disruptors will be some effect on missile
The basic answer is: when tracking computers work for missiles, queue the flames |
Kibitt Kallinikov
Arma Purgatorium Templis Dragonaors
2
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Posted - 2013.10.31 02:25:00 -
[492] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Urkhan Law wrote:Enough with the TPs. Just remove all TP bonus from ALL ships, and buff TPs. Despite being a *force multiplier* of some sort, designing ships around TPs ends up in a complete disaster most of the time (poor vigil). beign a force multiplier doe snto mean its good. Multiply your force by 0 and you wont be in a good place :P And No webs do not go well with painters. They fight for same slots, and a second web is 99.9% of time better than a painter. Also the paintere range bonus is STUPID, because the hyena will operate in the range limit of its WEB range, that is already inside the normal painter range. Just remove the fake paitner range bonus.. and give us 5% more cowbell per level!
The Target Painter range bonus is quite pointless, but I wouldn't say that the module itself is bad. A reason I can think of is that a Target Painter skews tracking/similar issues whereas Stasis Webifiers simply lowers maxvelocity. In truth, Target Painters are best used in tandem with webifiers rather than by themselves, which leads to the problem that you need a web, hence web is "better".
As for the Hyena's ship bonuses, I would swap them around a bit.
Minmatar Frigate Bonuses: 10% bonus to Missile velocity per level (was MWD capacitor use) 10% bonus to effectiveness of target painters per level
Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 40% bonus to stasis webifier range per level (+20% per level) 5% bonus to scan resolution per level (was signature radius reduction)
^ I think that the Hyena simply locks too slowly for what it is, and this bring it up to ~900, so it locks a little slower than a Cruor, but noticeably less than an Attack Frigate or Interceptor. This could mean something for a ship that uses EWAR to control range, and could open up options as an insta-lock tackler without competing too directly with the Stiletto in the t2 department or the Slasher in the t1 department as you can lose 10 Slasher for the cost of 1 Hyena, and 3rd rig on t1 means another targeting rig which is a lot more scan res.
Slot layout: 3H, 4M, 3L; 1(-1) turrets, 3(+1) launchers Signature radius: 35 [was 39(-12)] <- I boiled the sig bonus into the hull but not for its full value.
Now, the missile damage bonus seemed too dubious after I looked at the DPS it could spew, but I think all EAS should be able to defend themselves in some way so I gave it a range bonus to compliment is web range bonus and give it some flexibility with its choice of Rocket or Light Missile, Fury or other Javelin and gave it the 3rd Missile slot. |
Tsukinosuke
Id Est
7
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Posted - 2013.11.01 13:14:00 -
[493] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:Keres: How about instead of this:
Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 15% bonus to warp disruptor range per level (+5% per level) 10% reduction in warp disruptor capacitor need per level
give this:
Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 15% bonus to warp disruptor range per level (+5% per level) 5% reduced capacitor recharge time
will be much more efficient with small bonus change
if it was an amarr ship..
also i like the improvements, o7 anti-antagonist-á "not friend of enemy of antagonist" |
elitatwo
Congregatio
140
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Posted - 2013.11.02 09:23:00 -
[494] - Quote
Tsukinosuke wrote:
if it was an amarr ship..
Yea, about the Amarr...
The Sentinel is a tiny bit to powerful for her size. I mean 3 small neuts with 30km range will slowy murder every boat that doesn't have missiles or autocannons and will make those pilots rage when thier boats slowy die of 4 drones.
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Ama Zing
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2013.11.03 13:39:00 -
[495] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Tsukinosuke wrote:
if it was an amarr ship..
Yea, about the Amarr... The Sentinel is a tiny bit to powerful for her size. I mean 3 small neuts with 30km range will slowy murder every boat that doesn't have missiles or autocannons and will make those pilots rage when thier boats slowy die of 4 drones.
Powerful is the sentinel at 90 km range ruining 3 ships tracking. If it's in neut range it's vulnerable to missiles and drones. To sit and wait for the sentinels drones to eat me up is also bad tactique. Killing the drones is much better imho.
Every change in this game puts pressure on pilots to find a counter method. Believe me, it's just a matter of time. A Hyena can be jammed for example, no matter how fast that beast goes. Be creative in PVP. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
2
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Posted - 2013.11.03 21:34:00 -
[496] - Quote
Ama Zing wrote:elitatwo wrote:Tsukinosuke wrote:
if it was an amarr ship..
Yea, about the Amarr... The Sentinel is a tiny bit to powerful for her size. I mean 3 small neuts with 30km range will slowy murder every boat that doesn't have missiles or autocannons and will make those pilots rage when thier boats slowy die of 4 drones. Powerful is the sentinel at 90 km range ruining 3 ships tracking. If it's in neut range it's vulnerable to missiles and drones. To sit and wait for the sentinels drones to eat me up is also bad tactique. Killing the drones is much better imho. Every change in this game puts pressure on pilots to find a counter method. Believe me, it's just a matter of time. A Hyena can be jammed for example, no matter how fast that beast goes. Be creative in PVP.
Powerful is the sentinel at 90 km range ruining 3 ships tracking, you mean the same as a the T1 ship. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
212
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Posted - 2013.11.04 18:58:00 -
[497] - Quote
The Sentinel Dronebay might be a little.... large...
Thats three different flights of drones for a ship to deal with... Dronebays bigger than the tristan, ishkur, etc.
I am not saying shrink the dronebay, I'm saying is that the Gallente tend to be more of the drone specialist. I havent' heard much about the Keres kicking @ss.. Everybodys expecting the Sentinel to mow everything over.
Just a little food for thought. |
Enthes goldhart
The Generic Pirate Corporation Shadow Cartel
15
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Posted - 2013.11.04 19:46:00 -
[498] - Quote
Because EAF's dont **** me off enough when running solo..... |
AnJuan Jackson
Disingenuous Assertions
54
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Posted - 2013.11.05 01:30:00 -
[499] - Quote
Can I just bring up that since when is a laser pointer considered electronic warfare?
Always felt the Minmatar got shafted when the CCP Gods were handing that out. Yay Target painters.
Though the double Statsis webbed Loki was the only redeeming thing to that trend. Thank you for that. Because if we got stuck with target painters I'd completely give up on the minnies. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
635
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Posted - 2013.11.05 09:14:00 -
[500] - Quote
AnJuan Jackson wrote:Can I just bring up that since when is a laser pointer considered electronic warfare?
Always felt the Minmatar got shafted when the CCP Gods were handing that out. Yay Target painters.
Though the double Statsis webbed Loki was the only redeeming thing to that trend. Thank you for that. Because if we got stuck with target painters I'd completely give up on the minnies.
Not only that, but on ships with the web bonus, the painter bonuses are irrelevant, because adding another web will be better in 95% of scenarios. |
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Dav Varan
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
78
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Posted - 2013.11.05 12:20:00 -
[501] - Quote
Mobility of these ships need looking at.
Keres is much too fast for a long range boat. Speed should be based on effective fighting range. Keres is not a blaster boat.
The speed range is too wide , insulating flyers of the faster ships from the need to consider speed mods. The slowest hull with a low slot speed mod should be faster than the fastest hull with no mods imo.
I reckon Keres 340 Kitsune 345 Sentinal 355 Hyena 360
would be a more appropriate spread.
|
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
589
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Posted - 2013.11.06 13:59:00 -
[502] - Quote
so are these finished now no more changes or what? sentinel same range neuts as curse is OP the other EAF don't get the same capability as the recons and rightly so ....
I still think the role and emphasis of these EAF are wrong.. mini recons focused on the short range e-war is what people want and prefer ... T1 e-war frigs should be the long range focused ship.
this would remove the overlap which you stated in OP you wanted to avoid.. and still no role bonus why???? .. all T2 ships have a role bonus or should have one being role based ships... |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
645
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Posted - 2013.11.06 14:50:00 -
[503] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:so are these finished now no more changes or what? sentinel same range neuts as curse is OP the other EAF don't get the same capability as the recons and rightly so ....
I still think the role and emphasis of these EAF are wrong.. mini recons focused on the short range e-war is what people want and prefer ... T1 e-war frigs should be the long range focused ship.
this would remove the overlap which you stated in OP you wanted to avoid.. and still no role bonus why???? .. all T2 ships have a role bonus or should have one being role based ships...
He already explained why the sentinel is more POWERFUl. Because its a ship with much weaker capability to support larger ships into neutralizing other ships. A keres can be devastating in a small gang, being able to cancel a battleship of enemy fleet even. A sentinel, would be almsot irrelevant if its bonuses were not upped to this level.
That comes from fact that Webs, Damps and ECM are abasolute, they are doing their effects.. or they are not. Small neuts not very bonused would be doing a BIT of effect, but very likely not enough to hamper a BC for example.. not even dream of a battleship.
On the minmatar ewar I agree completely. 2 target painter bonuses, one that basically cannto be used if youw ant to use the web bonus.. is HORRIBLE design |
Lidia Caderu
Cobalt Academy Catastrophic Uprising
23
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Posted - 2013.11.06 21:58:00 -
[504] - Quote
Just noticed that Keres as ship that has bonus to warp disruption has to small scan resolution... |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
655
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Posted - 2013.11.07 17:57:00 -
[505] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:Just noticed that Keres as ship that has bonus to warp disruption has to small scan resolution...
Too small? Its less than 10% worse than minmatar. the standard deviation for gallente.
Altough the sentinel is HIGHER than the normal racial flavor dictates. |
Lidia Caderu
Cobalt Academy Catastrophic Uprising
23
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Posted - 2013.11.08 14:59:00 -
[506] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Lidia Caderu wrote:Just noticed that Keres as ship that has bonus to warp disruption has to small scan resolution... Too small? Its less than 10% worse than minmatar. the standard deviation for gallente. Altough the sentinel is HIGHER than the normal racial flavor dictates.
Bad for catching small stuff. As Keres has bonus to warp disruption it will be used to point stuff, such scan resolution is ok for other Electronic attack ships but not for Keres. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
661
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Posted - 2013.11.08 15:39:00 -
[507] - Quote
Lidia Caderu wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Lidia Caderu wrote:Just noticed that Keres as ship that has bonus to warp disruption has to small scan resolution... Too small? Its less than 10% worse than minmatar. the standard deviation for gallente. Altough the sentinel is HIGHER than the normal racial flavor dictates. Bad for catching small stuff. As Keres has bonus to warp disruption it will be used to point stuff, such scan resolution is ok for other Electronic attack ships but not for Keres.
That never stopped the arazu from doign its work.
You cannto have EVERYTHING. If you think that is a problem.. try to check how you an use a Target paint RANGE bonus, on a ship whose primary function is to WEB other ships at UNDER max normal range of target painters. |
SimoneIsGod
Balkan Mafia Circle-Of-Two
0
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Posted - 2013.11.09 13:49:00 -
[508] - Quote
Kitsune should have a small drone bay well I say a drone bay 1 small just so that it matches up with the Griffin
I like whoring on the primary while jamming logistics :)
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Tsukinosuke
Id Est
7
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Posted - 2013.11.09 18:41:00 -
[509] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Tsukinosuke wrote:
if it was an amarr ship..
Yea, about the Amarr... The Sentinel is a tiny bit to powerful for her size. I mean 3 small neuts with 30km range will slowy murder every boat that doesn't have missiles or autocannons and will make those pilots rage when thier boats slowy die of 4 drones.
i.e.
KITSUNE
Caldari Frigate Bonuses: 20% bonus to ECM target jammer strength per level 10% reduction in ECM target jammers' capacitor need per level
Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 15% bonus to ECM target jammer optimal range per level (+2.5% per level) 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level
Slot layout: 3H, 5M, 2L; 1 turrets, 3 launchers Fittings: 26 PWG, 270 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 450(+50) / 250 / 275(+25) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 415 / 195s (-116s) / 2.12 (+.79) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 315 / 3.86 / 1228700(+111700) / 5.98s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km(+23km) / 520 / 7 Sensor strength: 24 Gravimetric Signature radius: 47(-11)
KERES
Gallente Frigate Bonuses: 7.5% bonus to remote sensor dampener effectiveness per level 10% reduction in remote sensor dampener capacitor need per level
Electronic Attack Ships Bonuses: 15% bonus to warp disruptor range per level (+5% per level) 10% reduction in warp disruptor capacitor need per level
Slot layout: 2H, 5M, 3L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 33 PWG, 205 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 325 / 400(+50) / 425(+75) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 375 / 187s (-93s) / 2.00 (+.66) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 350(+5) / 4.1 / 1204500(+109500) / 6.22s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 10(+5) / 10 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 64.5km(+25.5km) / 550 / 7 Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric(-.5) Signature radius: 43(-12)
these ships can stand against "uber" sentinel, imho.. have you ever heard of cap boosters? |
Aurora Fatalis
Blacklight Recon Mordus Angels
34
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Posted - 2013.11.10 16:19:00 -
[510] - Quote
Since the SoE ships got virus strength + scanning bonuses on a combat hull, could we perhaps also see Virus Strength on these? Or even on all EWAR ships? It would be representative of their "advanced electronics", after all, even without any scanning bonus.
I'm imagining hacking Falcons jamming the first few pirates that arrive to give themselves some more time :D |
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