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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Jerick Ludhowe
trolllolcorp
504
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Posted - 2013.08.06 02:08:00 -
[211] - Quote
Proper change, good work Rise! |
Zaxix
Long Jump.
188
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Posted - 2013.08.06 02:17:00 -
[212] - Quote
It's hard to give feedback if you've limited all discussion to a non-existent skill you've already said isn't likely to change.
Nice start. Something is better than nothing. But just looking at votes in the reasonable things thread shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that significantly lowering the timer is what the community wants.
Thanks for chipping away at it though. Bokononist
-á |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2224
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Posted - 2013.08.06 02:27:00 -
[213] - Quote
1 hour is meh. make it 7.5% time reduction per level and it would be better. |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
218
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Posted - 2013.08.06 02:34:00 -
[214] - Quote
Perfect, if you play at the same time each day now you're not screwed.
Add to this the ability to store all your clones in one station and swap between them at will and it'll be perfect, allowing quick change of fleet composition as well as limiting force projection. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
Serenis
Dark-Rising
0
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Posted - 2013.08.06 02:37:00 -
[215] - Quote
I don't think this solves the issue fully. It lessens the chance you will be stuck waiting for a clone, but doesn't really facilitate what I think Jump Clones could be used for. I know there are a lot of arguments that it will shorten travel, but it's not like you can pick any destination or take cargo with you. You may want to jump to high sec quickly to manage a market order, or earn some ISK. Maybe move to the other side of new Eden to play with a different group of people, and of course manage different implants for different ops. I would probably do a wider range of activities in a play session if I wasn't bound by how rigid the current system is. I'm not going to do any of those activities if I have to spend half an hour in a shuttle each way. It's also annoying to JC somewhere and find you have to buy a ship to shuttle back if you are suddenly needed elsewhere.
I suppose the best way I can put it is that I always hesitate to push the button on a jumping to a clone because I feel like I'm trading some convenience now for more inconvenience later.
Anyway I'd like to suggest an alternative to shortening the time by approaching the problem differently. A jump clone activation pool and availability queue.
- With no skill trained each character gets one clone in the pool.
- This is increased by one for each level of the new skill to a max of six. When you jump you use one of your pooled jumps.
- This is then takes 24 (arbitrary/legacy amount...this number will be the main balance point) hours to recharge.
- If you jump again in that 24 hour period that slot is added to the end of the recharge queue, taking a further 24 hours after the current slot is charged etc.
This way you could jump up to six time a day whenever you wanted, but you would have to wait 6 days with NO JUMPING to be able to do that again. In the worst case scenario you still have a clone every 24 hours as it is now, and not having the skill trained also remains the same as it is now. It's still possible to get stuck waiting for a clone in this system, but it would allow flexibility to use clones more conveniently, while still requiring the player to budget how they use their clones. the player is never penalised for jumping, just jumping excessively or without due care to budgeting their jump pool. If this is too forgiving you can lengthen the 24 hour recharge or stack a time penalty on each additional clone in the queue to balance. |
Tom Gerard
Dark-Rising
1128
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Posted - 2013.08.06 02:51:00 -
[216] - Quote
Serenis makes a good point.
One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |
Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
171
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Posted - 2013.08.06 02:56:00 -
[217] - Quote
Should be no cooldown for jumping to a JC in the same station, makes life a lot easier and doesn't make the game any smaller. |
YoYoMommy
Aideron Robotics
0
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Posted - 2013.08.06 02:58:00 -
[218] - Quote
If you are trying to do it so you can switch more in one day, a 5 hour max reduction will not do this effectively. You need to be able to switch while you are still awake or it's still the same as before. |
Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
47
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Posted - 2013.08.06 03:09:00 -
[219] - Quote
2 hours per level. not 1
would bring it down to 14 hours at level 5. Make it a 5x skill.
Much better.
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Swiftstrike1
Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black
141
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Posted - 2013.08.06 03:34:00 -
[220] - Quote
Best update in a long time :) Fleet Bookmarks |
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Keif Kroker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.08.06 03:55:00 -
[221] - Quote
1 hour doesn't go far enough, especially for new players who might get this to IV. There really doesn't need to be a giant cool-down, it just gets in the way of playing the game. If you let people switch more often it opens up more possibilities for pvp, swapping implants quicker.
How about we get a skill to let you have more then 1 jumpclone in the same station per level. |
Blueprint Seller
The Blueprint Shop
90
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Posted - 2013.08.06 04:32:00 -
[222] - Quote
Excellent! |
Thorvik
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
85
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Posted - 2013.08.06 05:06:00 -
[223] - Quote
meh |
JEFFRAIDER
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
266
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Posted - 2013.08.06 05:14:00 -
[224] - Quote
This is a great idea and implimentation. It keeps the quality of life change without totally pwning the need to consider which clones you want to use and when. |
Bam Stroker
InterSun Freelance Moon Warriors
133
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Posted - 2013.08.06 05:17:00 -
[225] - Quote
I'd prefer 1.5 hours per level, but I think this is still a big improvement. EVE Down Under 2013 (Australia's very own fanfest) 29th Nov to 1st Dec in Sydney, Australia www.evedownunder.com |
Milena Eliskova
Projekt Krasna
0
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Posted - 2013.08.06 05:22:00 -
[226] - Quote
Overall, not a bad idea.
CCP, please remember the learning skills and how useless they were.
Change the jump timer to 19 hours and be done with it if you plan on making this change. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Suddenly Spaceships.
790
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Posted - 2013.08.06 06:07:00 -
[227] - Quote
Why would anybody want to clone jump out of a cosy slave set?
"Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
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BarryBonez
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
28
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Posted - 2013.08.06 06:22:00 -
[228] - Quote
5 whole hours less? It's exciting gameplay fixes like this that get me excited... about Star Citizen! Eve is soooo stagnant. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2038
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Posted - 2013.08.06 06:23:00 -
[229] - Quote
I have a better name...
Tau Cabalander wrote:Infomorph Adaptation Advanced training that enables a pilot to endure the physical and mental stresses experienced as a result of clone jumping, thereby alloying the pilot to change clones more frequently. Prerequisite: Informorph Psychology 5 |
Guy Von Shmuck
Dark-Rising
2
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Posted - 2013.08.06 06:29:00 -
[230] - Quote
If this according to you is a good improvement then don't bother at all, keeping it at 24 hours is pretty much the exact same thing.
You should have read the CSM 99 reasonable things instead, at least those clone jump suggestions were good enough but still not overpowered. |
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Artirei
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
7
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Posted - 2013.08.06 06:33:00 -
[231] - Quote
Hmm well I guess 19 hours is better than 24 hours but in all honesty it won't make that big a difference IMO, maybe 12 hours, But U guess then you also open a can of worms.
I agree with some of the other posts here, rather then just allow to change clones in stations. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4188
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Posted - 2013.08.06 06:44:00 -
[232] - Quote
I am looking forward to the day when you realize power projection in this game needs a total revamp. Sadly, I know today is not that day. . |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2013.08.06 06:58:00 -
[233] - Quote
To me, jump clone timer reduction via skills is just like the old learning skills. They're meta, not actual game-play enhancing skills.
As such, the skill is a bad idea.
Just make the timer 18 hours instead of 24 for all JCs and move on. |
Rena Senn
Resurrection Ventures Un.Bound
52
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Posted - 2013.08.06 07:01:00 -
[234] - Quote
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the reduction, but why not just set it to 20 hours base and leave it at that? It's not like most people are running out of things to train at this point. Just because a problem can be solved by a new skill doesn't mean that's always going to be the most elegant solution. |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2013.08.06 07:04:00 -
[235] - Quote
Keif Kroker wrote:How about we get a skill to let you have more then 1 jumpclone in the same station per level.
Good idea, and another example of something that shouldn't be a skill.
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Sante Ixnay
University of Caille Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.08.06 07:05:00 -
[236] - Quote
I'm basically pleased about this, but still...
CCP Rise, translated to bullet points, wrote:
- don't want to accelerate the rate that you can jump significantly
- want to make sure that switching once a day is actually possible.
- very easy to do
- very positive affect on player experience
...add me to the list of people who think all these goals would be -even- better accomplished by just shortening the jump clone timer, and calling it (somewhat less than) a day. Shoot, do both if you just can't shake that itch to add another skill.
Anyway, whatever you do, thanks for addressing this longstanding issue.
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Neryman Tulocky
X - Beyond the Frontier
4
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Posted - 2013.08.06 07:05:00 -
[237] - Quote
Even though I'd favor a more significant reduction, it makes sense to me having 19 Hours @ Level 5. It will be a big help already.
Atm, I cannot jump to a new clone every evening, when I start playing, if I hadn't done it at the very beginning of my "play-time" the evening before.
With this skill, jumping at anytime on one evening allows me to jump again already at the start of the next evening, which isn't possible right now.
Btw. I liked the proposal from the 99 reasonable things voting ... to set the jumpclone-cooldown in relation to the jumped distance. |
Zheketri
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2013.08.06 07:07:00 -
[238] - Quote
That's about all I've ever been to inclined to ask for on this. Have to say about time, though. "Once you have taken his place, have you then defeated your enemy?" |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
760
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Posted - 2013.08.06 07:17:00 -
[239] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Glad that generally this is something people want. I'm not surprised there's different opinions on exactly how much this timer should be reduced, but for now we will stick with this time range and we can see how it fits.
As far as tying it to a skill, there's good arguments for and against. I'll have a chat with some other designers and make sure we're all on the same page before shipping it.
As usual, thanks for the input.
I am in the group who believes more skills is good for eve. Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Adam Lyon
Lonetrek Blacksoul Federation Blacksoul Tribal Nation
5
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Posted - 2013.08.06 07:33:00 -
[240] - Quote
So'Cari wrote:-1 for the same reason offered by many others: If you recognise that a 24-hour timer is bad game design, you should implement a direct fix rather than adding a skill which makes the flaw default with an optional fix available for a minor in-game cost. [That the relative cost is highest to newer players just compounds the problem.] Just set the timer to 19-hours (or whatever) and go from there.
- Simpler to implement
- Simpler to adjust and/or remove based on feedback
- No more costly (as a proportion of SP) for newer players
And if after a short trial you still want to go back to 24-hour default with skill-based reduction, then you can, and nobody will complain about wasted training time or clamor for SP reimbursement. You could even set it to 21 or 22-hours (i.e. something a little more conservative) RIGHT NOW as an experiment until Odyssey 1.1, and then make a final adjustment or add in the skill-based version when 1.1 launches.
I'm sorry for not having read the entire threadnaught (nice word) but I thought I might join the conversation. As a preliminary disclaimer, I do not function in nullsec to any appreciable degree, but I have read the concerns you nullseccers seem to have. I also thought what So'Cari said was very well thought out so it bore repeating.
Jumpclones serve two primary purposes, implant swaps and travel. It seems it would be beneficial to all involved if implant swaps were not delayed at all. I personally see no reason to extend the time delay between implant swaps. If instant travel is as bad as my nullsec pilots say it is, why not just separate the two functions as best you can? Make in-station clone swaps no/low delay and keep trans-station swaps at the 24 hour (or 22/23 or 19 hour) standard if you choose to update it to that. If you just have to have new skills, make in-station clone swaps a trainable for -4 hours per level (or -20%) and keep the currently proposed skill for trans-station jumps.
I can personally attest (as probably almost everyone in this thread can) that implant jump timers are just a barrier to enjoying the game. I don't want to have to be locked into my clone for 12 hours because of a decision I made yesterday. It just makes no sense for anyone. Gameplay barriers like new "required" skills and ridiculous timers (that serve no purpose from my personal perspective) hurt everyone. Players play less and CCP gets less money. Just fix it. It's not that complicated. |
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