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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
754
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Posted - 2013.07.29 10:07:00 -
[241] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Delete ECM, it's a bad mechanic. Take damps from Gallente and give them to Caldari. Create a new secondary ewar for Caldari that reduces the range and transfer amount of shield, armour and cap transfers by a sensible amount, subject to stacking. Give Gallente a new missile-disruption ewar. I honestly think Caldari, with their amount of long range hulls would be horrendously nasty with damps. To the point people would be begging for ECM back. Flawless ability to block locks at perfect engagement range other races have a hard time reaching? Ouch. @Aliventi: Well played
I didn't know caldari ewar ships had stats that couldn't be adjusted. |
Whitehound
1707
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Posted - 2013.07.29 10:09:00 -
[242] - Quote
Claire Raynor wrote:The poster you quoted is correct in stating that ECM "effects" last 20 seconds - inasmuch the module does not permenantly affect the target - it has a chance to affect the target for 20 seconds every 20 seconds. I think maybe this is a misconception about ECM that a lot of people have - if it doesn't succeed it has no effect for 20 seconds - if it does it's effect lasts 20 seconds. Other modules affect their target the moment the module is activated - like a target painter.
Hope this helps a little No. He pointed out how ECM worsk several times, but then continued with saying the other modules stop when they are being turned off suggesting that ECM modules either cannot be turned off or that turning them off is somehow different from turing off other modules. All modules stop when they are being turned off and it is just redundant.
If you do not get this then ignore it. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
314
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Posted - 2013.07.29 10:16:00 -
[243] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Delete ECM, it's a bad mechanic. Take damps from Gallente and give them to Caldari. Create a new secondary ewar for Caldari that reduces the range and transfer amount of shield, armour and cap transfers by a sensible amount, subject to stacking. Give Gallente a new missile-disruption ewar. I honestly think Caldari, with their amount of long range hulls would be horrendously nasty with damps. To the point people would be begging for ECM back. Flawless ability to block locks at perfect engagement range other races have a hard time reaching? Ouch. @Aliventi: Well played I didn't know caldari ewar ships had stats that couldn't be adjusted.
That has nothing to do with my point.
My point is giving the "sniper" race the ability to reliably (i.e. 100%, all the time) prevent the other side from long range engagement is dangerous, potentially beyond reasonable bounds. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
285
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Posted - 2013.07.29 11:39:00 -
[244] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Delete ECM, it's a bad mechanic. Take damps from Gallente and give them to Caldari. Create a new secondary ewar for Caldari that reduces the range and transfer amount of shield, armour and cap transfers by a sensible amount, subject to stacking. Give Gallente a new missile-disruption ewar. I honestly think Caldari, with their amount of long range hulls would be horrendously nasty with damps. To the point people would be begging for ECM back. Flawless ability to block locks at perfect engagement range other races have a hard time reaching? Ouch. @Aliventi: Well played
I can see where you are coming from with this one and I quite like the idea of long range hulls with damps that shorten the enemy's engagement range so that you can target them but they have no hope of targeting you.
The Gallente use damps to for the opposite reason though to encourage their foes to come within range of their incredibly powerful short range weaponry. Overall though the individual races have distinct fighting styles but I think CCP is encouraging players to mix it up into something new and unpredictable. Given that the Gallente and the Caldari have the same racial heritage they should both offer hulls that have some bonuses to damps and ECM, not equal bonuses mind you, Gallente should still be best at Damps and Caldari should still offer the best ECM, but a hull that has a primary bonus for ECM and a secondary one in Damps would be an immensely versatile ship.
They've done it before the Amarr became drone users overnight and all that started with a little Arbitrator. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
314
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Posted - 2013.07.29 11:44:00 -
[245] - Quote
Oh I do like the idea, I'm just mindful of the ramifications.
Actually just thought about the limitations of sniping there, with on grid probing....perhaps the "sniper" race secondary effect should address that? A bubble you can't warp into. No idea how hard that'd be though - not a tradiational bubble - just something so hold off on grid probing and make people burn to snipers the old way. |
Caliph Muhammed
Caldari Investment and Security Industries Enigma Project
404
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Posted - 2013.07.29 15:24:00 -
[246] - Quote
Without ECM, logistics rule. Simple as that. Like cloaking and local chat, this is going no where. |
Ellendras Silver
No Self Esteem ShAdOw PoLiTiCs
71
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Posted - 2013.07.29 15:41:00 -
[247] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Without ECM, logistics rule. Simple as that. Like cloaking and local chat, this is going no where. QFT |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
71
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Posted - 2013.07.29 16:18:00 -
[248] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:the major problem in EWAR is that it doesn't scale like weapons, drones, armor and shield reps or shield extenders and armor plates everything scales but EWAR.
so a frigate can do effective way more to a BS with EWAR then its guns as a BS will laugh at the DPS of most frigate`s
the lack of scalability makes it OP in some cases and totaly USELESS in some other cases. for example in a large fight EWAR is useless and in small fights it can be OP very easily.
my 2 cnt
It's not just the size of the ship that causes the scaling issue, its the numbers. In small gangs, ECM can be very useful, but this is also true for TDs and SDs. When you look at trying to coordinate blob warfare with ECM, TDs and SDs, there is not a very good system in place to allow for the scaling factor in the effectiveness of EW modules in general because people will cut into other people's targets.
The problem people have with ECM is the fact that it can prevent them from actively fighting back. This makes people angry because they feel like they did back in grade school and the kid that was 2 feet taller then them, was holding their head at arms length. While EW modules like TD and SD gives them the illusion that they can still do something.
Reading through this thread and it has been mentioned about the tank that ECM boats have (whether its the decent or the lack there of), but what really hasn't been touched is the lack of DPS these ships put out. If ECM was to receive a nerf, the ships have to receive a buff in some way, whether its more tank or more gank. But when this happens, then we won't see ECM boats being fielded at all, so then we will see who can simply out gank the other person in PVP. This seems like some amazing depth in PVP combat.
Without ECM Player 1: I have x dps and x tank Player 2: Well shucks, you have more dps and tank then me, I guess I lose
With ECM Player 1: I have x dps and x tank Player 2: Ok, well I'll lower my dps/tank slightly to lower your Effective DPS more so I can beat you Player 1: Ok I'll sacrifice some tank/gank and equip ECCM/TC/SB to raise my Effective DPS so I can counter your counter Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Balthazar Lestrane
Viziam Amarr Empire
52
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Posted - 2013.07.29 16:22:00 -
[249] - Quote
Quote:They've done it before the Amarr became drone users overnight and all that started with a little Arbitrator.
Amarr have always been known in their lore for using drones as a secondary weapon system. The Arbitrator has always been a drone boat, it just didn't always have the drone damage bonus. |
CW Itovuo
The Executioners Insidious Empire
7
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Posted - 2013.07.29 17:17:00 -
[250] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
'Show us on the dolly where the nasty Falcon touched you...'
LOL |
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CW Itovuo
The Executioners Insidious Empire
7
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Posted - 2013.07.29 17:39:00 -
[251] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:ECM is not OP with numbers Version 1.0 By: Aliventi A work in progress. To be refined as more "ECM is OP" threads pop up. - snip - You see in the grand scheme of things ECM is neither OP, broken, wrong, out of place, or any of the other things people claim ECM is. It is merely a different and perfectly valid form of EWAR. It is high-risk high-reward, only truly effective on bonused hulls (as it should be) which at best can manage a tissue paper tank when fitting jams, and doesn't last forever like the other forms of EWAR. All things considered, it is perfectly in line with the other forms of EWAR. What's so wrong with that?
Cogent post is cogent. |
Anariasis
Boris Johnson's Love Children
25
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Posted - 2013.07.29 19:03:00 -
[252] - Quote
Far too lazy to read another "ECM is this, ECM is that" thread. My 2 cents to fixing the ECM problem: - ECM reduces the amount of targets you can lock according to ECM-strength and your sensor strenght - Minimum amount of targets you can always lock: 1
-> Useless in solo PVP, as it should be -> Still very useful in fleet pvp, as it should be |
Ellendras Silver
No Self Esteem ShAdOw PoLiTiCs
71
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Posted - 2013.07.29 19:21:00 -
[253] - Quote
Anariasis wrote:Far too lazy to read another "ECM is this, ECM is that" thread. My 2 cents to fixing the ECM problem: - ECM reduces the amount of targets you can lock according to ECM-strength and your sensor strenght - Minimum amount of targets you can always lock: 1
-> Useless in solo PVP, as it should be -> Still very useful in fleet pvp, as it should be
that is actually not a bad idea and EWAR should not stack or badly? |
Phaade
Debitum Naturae WHY so Seri0Us
25
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Posted - 2013.07.30 00:16:00 -
[254] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Without ECM, logistics rule. Simple as that. Like cloaking and local chat, this is going no where.
There are other ways to deal with logistics. Sensor damps, for one, could drastically impact them.
ECM being ridiculous is not a logical argument for logistics. Oh hey, new form of Ewar, reduces effectivess of remote repair systems by X% HEYOOO
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Caliph Muhammed
Caldari Investment and Security Industries Enigma Project
409
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Posted - 2013.07.30 14:12:00 -
[255] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Without ECM, logistics rule. Simple as that. Like cloaking and local chat, this is going no where. There are other ways to deal with logistics. Sensor damps, for one, could drastically impact them. ECM being ridiculous is not a logical argument for logistics. Oh hey, new form of Ewar, reduces effectivess of remote repair systems by X% HEYOOO
ECM isn't ridiculous. Wanting to engage in pvp without proper defense against it and survive is ridiculous. Without ECM logistics will dominate, as the only way to break a chain is to prevent the logistics from locking a target.
I have every ewar/ecm skill in the game level 5 (save for the newer defensive skills that came after I remapped) and if you check my killboard youll be lucky to find 1-2 that ECM ever came into play. Its so situational and requires advanced intel to utilize effectively so its almost always better to have a full combat ship. |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
784
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Posted - 2013.07.30 14:53:00 -
[256] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Phaade wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Without ECM, logistics rule. Simple as that. Like cloaking and local chat, this is going no where. There are other ways to deal with logistics. Sensor damps, for one, could drastically impact them. ECM being ridiculous is not a logical argument for logistics. Oh hey, new form of Ewar, reduces effectivess of remote repair systems by X% HEYOOO ECM isn't ridiculous. Wanting to engage in pvp without proper defense against it and survive is ridiculous. Without ECM logistics will dominate, as the only way to break a chain is to prevent the logistics from locking a target.
DPS, Neuts, and damps work too.
ECM isn't the only way. |
Aldap
Club Bear
287
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Posted - 2013.08.17 16:25:00 -
[257] - Quote
How about them ECM drones? My latest solo PvP videos |
Caleb Seremshur
Angel of War
51
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Posted - 2013.08.17 16:56:00 -
[258] - Quote
Logi are meant to reduce the effect of DPS. Yes alpha fleets are a thing but the effect is diminished against over-tanked hulls. New nerfs to links and boosts, the ehp nerf via resist nerf.. these are done to debuff logistics power. Take is as a signal from CCP that they acknowledge that fleet tactics are broken especially when it comes to remote logisitics. EWAR works so poorly that CCP is actually modifying the base stats of ships and entire mechanics to fix the logi problem.
So yes damps and neuts work, they just don't work well enough to matter right now. Perhaps now that abaddons or whatever have neut range bonuses things will change a bit but it hasn't so far in the 2 months since the launch of Odyssey. These nerfs we're seeing on the horizon were planned much further in advance.
Truth is most of this discussion is kind of moot. CCP when they ask for input aren't looking for "don't do this its dumb" they're looking to meet us half-way and do what they want anyway albeit with modified impact. Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner. |
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