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Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
27
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Posted - 2013.06.30 20:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Okay, so it just so happens that I hate the spew mechanic. Like, really, really bad. And since I'm probably not the only one I decided to make the devs hear the like-minded people out:
LOOT SPEW IS PUNISHMENT. IT IS NOT FUN.
Any counterarguments that are raised will be addressed below.
For those who think this thread isn't constructive, it really is. Like a gangrene-infested limb, sometimes amputation is the best option we can put on the table.
And as far as this devblog is concerned, that data shows people are running more sites. Which is obvious, since finding sites now is about as hard as finding one's own belly button. Get some actual data of spawned cans vs looted cans and see just what people are getting. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
183
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Posted - 2013.06.30 20:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
http://neural-boost.com/minicontainer-loot-distribution
Enjoy. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Big Red Wardec Co Petition Blizzard
3032
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Posted - 2013.06.30 22:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
As a previously avid explorer, I have to say the new gameplay is TERRIBLE. It's about the worst way CCP could have changed the way the mechanic works. The randomness should be in the drop itself, not in which digital sperm you catch before they disappear.
edit: if I wanted a clickfest, I'd play StarCraft. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
236
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Posted - 2013.06.30 22:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
+1that new hacking loot mechanic is making exploration almost worthless. I'm not a fan of the hacking mini game either. Tiericide is tiers by another name. |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
182
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Posted - 2013.06.30 23:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
I add my support to this. I tried this "mini-game" on the Test Server...four times = Never trying it on TQ. Just awful.
I kinda like the "hacking" mini-game idea but the spew is ridiculous! So if you manage to hack you then have to race to catch what you want...where's the reward for risking your ship and losing the hack container at all in that (by risking I mean sitting there uncloaked in low\null whatever space hacking away)? Its "Hacking Mini-Game Part 2" IMHO.
My Feature\Idea:-á Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee"
Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
35
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Posted - 2013.06.30 23:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Spew all you can. |
Saberlily Whyteshadow
Novum Matutinus
2
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Posted - 2013.07.01 01:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
+1 one or the other please.. I too have stopped running relic/data sites cause of this. |
Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
28
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Posted - 2013.07.01 02:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:http://neural-boost.com/minicontainer-loot-distribution Enjoy. Scuzzy Logic wrote:And as far as this devblog is concerned, that data shows people are running more sites. Which is obvious, since finding sites now is about as hard as finding one's own belly button. Get some actual data of spawned cans vs looted cans and see just what people are getting. I suggest you to read that devblog again. There is a graph of spawned/looted cans.
That graph just isn't right at all, now that I take a closer look at it: It sums up to roughly 50% of all canisters being harvested, which is only true of people with (very) twitchy reflexes or people in gangs. I get roughly 30% of the cans. The statistic should be lower, especially with newbies and casuals trying out the mechanic. The stats on june 5th shouldn't have been that high, either. Things should have improved as people got better at the spew, yet the total area under the graph stayed roughly the same...
I smell CCP trying to bury the fact people hate Team Prototyping Rocks' little pet project.
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Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
76
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Posted - 2013.07.01 11:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
I fully endorse this product or service. Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
477
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Posted - 2013.07.01 11:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
I don't mind the mini game so much but that's because I have maxed out skills and a maxed out ship. I've watched friends doing it and it pretty much sucks if you aren't maxed out, from what I can tell.
The loot spew though, that is just really really bad. If you want to force people to use alts to get the loot at least make it so they can get the loot. If you must spew the loot out just make it two containers which split the loot evenly between them and make it so each person can only pick up one can. Mind you, at that point why bother with the split at all. After all, all it's doing is forcing people to use alts in order to get the loot out of the sites.
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Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
152
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Posted - 2013.07.01 11:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Don't like the mechanic but got used to it by now. What bothers me more then anything about new exploration is the crashed prices for the loot. |
Scuzzy Logic
Midnight Elites United Federation of Commerce
29
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Posted - 2013.07.01 12:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:I don't mind the mini game so much but that's because I have maxed out skills and a maxed out ship. I've watched friends doing it and it pretty much sucks if you aren't maxed out, from what I can tell.
The loot spew though, that is just really really bad. If you want to force people to use alts to get the loot at least make it so they can get the loot. If you must spew the loot out just make it two containers which split the loot evenly between them and make it so each person can only pick up one can. Mind you, at that point why bother with the split at all. After all, all it's doing is forcing people to use alts in order to get the loot out of the sites.
I don't mind the hacking minigame either, because you can just skill or gear over it. It feels a bit weird for analyzer stuff, but for hacking it makes sense.
Spew being a reward makes no sense, though. I already beat your minigame, give me a frikking can!
I'm going back to L4 grinding. |
Captain StringfellowHawk
Industrial Dragon Tycoons
2
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Posted - 2013.07.01 14:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
I have ditched Hacking/Data sites all together.... I DO like the new Minigame.. I DISLIKE the Spew Containers.. At least add the damn Spew to the overview unless theres a way to do that.. But the new clickfest Is highly Disliked. As I said.. The Minigame itself I enjoy... But the Clickfast I dislike heavily. The Reward Vs going thru the pain of spam clicking is not worth the invested time. |
RoAnnon
Strategic Acquisitions Group Tactical Research Lab
91
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Posted - 2013.07.01 14:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Scuzzy Logic wrote:That graph just isn't right at all...
There are three types of lies:
Lies Damn Lies Statistics So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter. |
RoAnnon
Strategic Acquisitions Group Tactical Research Lab
91
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Posted - 2013.07.01 14:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:I don't mind the mini game so much but that's because I have maxed out skills and a maxed out ship. I've watched friends doing it and it pretty much sucks if you aren't maxed out, from what I can tell.
The loot spew though, that is just really really bad. If you want to force people to use alts to get the loot at least make it so they can get the loot. If you must spew the loot out just make it two containers which split the loot evenly between them and make it so each person can only pick up one can. Mind you, at that point why bother with the split at all. After all, all it's doing is forcing people to use alts in order to get the loot out of the sites.
I have maxed out skills, a maxed out ship, and implants. It still pretty much sucks. It's no longer fun to hack/analyse. Makes me ask again, what other modules do CCP plan to turn into a manual mini-game, rather than just let the module do the work as it has in the past?
So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter. |
Jerrick Chase
Spacial Reconnaissance
2
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Posted - 2013.07.01 17:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
I've also stopped dealing with the data/relic sites. I just skip them outright and go to the combat sites instead.
They're faster to complete and I'm pretty sure I do less clicking in a 4/10 then doing the minigames in the site.
It feels like there is a second or two of delay as well when you're tractoring the can in. When its right on top of your ship, feels like it takes forever to "loot" when you're watching the next can start blinking. I'd like to be able to double click the cans if they're within 2500m and loot it like I can for any other loot can.
They've made exploration actually convienient in other areas but then someone saw how much "fun" people have with the casual facebook app games and turned exploration into one of the most RSI inducing aspects of the game... again. |
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
179
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Posted - 2013.07.01 18:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
I thought it was being called loot bukkake. Or scat.
Anyways, I think the minigame is fine, but would rather the puking/jizzing/crapping part of exploration go away. I mean having fluids coming out of all your orifices at once is a pretty freakish fetish. I can has blogging skills! |
Ewersmen
Radiant core construction Green Alien Growth
8
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Posted - 2013.07.01 18:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Minigame is cool ...could make it harder just so we don't have to have the can spew ...]
THE LOOT SPEW IS WORST IDEA EVER
AND TO MAKE IT WORSE YOU PUT CARBON IN THERE .....what is wrong with you ccp pull your heads out of the snow there frozen already lol |
Jen Ann Tonique
University of Caille Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2013.07.01 18:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
What's funny, I had planned to start exploring prior to Odyssey. Had my ship planned out, skills planned out, knew exactly what I wanted to do.
Odyssey came out, started grinding L4s instead. I CBA to care about "exploration" now. Jen Ann Tonique does not approve of this product and/or service. Any comments contained herin are to be taken not seriously and no person/s shall hold Jen Ann Tonique responsible for any damage real and/or imagined due to use or misuse of above comment. By reading this statement you agree to the above terms. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
698
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Posted - 2013.07.01 19:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Once I've scanned container and there were just 3 items (more than one time - to be sure it's not mistake). I was excited how easy it will be to catch all those 3 items - yet I got like 10 containers spill and lost 2 out of 3 items.
Loot bukkake should be gone. It's even more terrible than moving bubbles on black screen mini-game (a.k.a. "scanning"). |
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2252
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Posted - 2013.07.01 19:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1 for liking the the mini-game, but hating the loot spew.
I ran another site over the weekend and apparently had a minor lag spike. Had this been a normal can, I could've gotten my loot eventually. Instead, I spent 5 seconds clicking like crazy on a flashing container that just would not respond, and eventually poofed.
Gee thanks CCP - way to put lag back into the equation.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
12
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Posted - 2013.07.01 19:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Three things...
1. Scanning: I sold my maxed scanning character before Odyssey planning to buy and train scanning skills again. I did this but all my scanning skills are at 4. I no longer use implants. I do not use the scanning modules. I use a covops. This is the third change in scanning I have experienced and it is by far the easiest. I always find the sites. Always.
2. The hacking mini game: Too random. I live in null but have scanned in all sec levels. Although there are some rules of thumb that make it easier it is far too random. If hacking remains only in the domain of exploration, dump it. If it is expanded to other areas of the game, then expand on it.
3. The loot spew: Are you kidding me? I am solo and I now get almost 90% of what I want but what a foolish waste of resources. CCP wanted exploration to become more buddy oriented but i have read many posts telling of people getting bored, the contents not worth the effort etc. Based on the feedback that I had read, the buddies that have tried this choose to not become explorers.
Bottom line, scanning is too simplistic. Hacking has potential if expanded into other parts of the game. The loot spew is very poor design and implementation.
BTW, did anyone in CCP consider the explorers that use laptops? the colour blind? Non urban internet connections? Using mouse pads versus mice versus track balls? After all CCP was exposing inclusivity (yup, I coined a new word) but some folks seem to have been forced out of non combat exploration sites. |
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
224
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Posted - 2013.07.01 20:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
/signed |
Alundil
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
214
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Posted - 2013.07.01 20:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Checking to say that I, too, don't mind the mini-game aspect. True, it makes running these in w-space a bit more.....anxiety inducing especially when I'm running solo. That I can deal with.
However the loot spew as it's being called is in a word, terrible. I'm already sitting uncloaked feverishly clicking between the minigame and the d-scan (dozens of clicks just to get a single can open). The about a dozen more clicks trying to capture the loot cans that go jetting off in multiple directions. Sometimes the click doesn't work for some reason and that's a wasted attempt/time. Sometimes the can you want is "underneath" a junk can (looking at you scraps) and that's another wasted attempt/time.
All in all...this is a very frustrating mechanic, which in a game meant for enjoyment (I know insert EVE meme) defeats the purpose. The desire to run these sites for the actual data/relic content, at least as they stand in w-space is almost nil. IF I have nothing better to do then I might do more with them that just kill/salvage the sleepers. But otherwise I don't see any reason to risk "life and limb" for a mechanic that is random (no issues there) and poorly implemented (that's the crux of it).
"Down with Loot Spew 2013!" |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4328
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Posted - 2013.07.01 21:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
I suppose any mechanic is bad when you don't know how to do it efficiently.
By the way, one poster mentioned being forced to use an alt. Alts don't help you at all actually.
The only thing that helps you is either having another player helping, or know which cans to go after and which to ignore. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
239
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Posted - 2013.07.01 22:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
I don't like the hacking mini game because it feels like an artificial layer added on top of eve. Think of it this way, you are a human being with state of the art implants that integrate with your pod and ship. Just by using the power of thought you can regulate shields, engage enemies, warp away, scan space, repair armour, drop bookmarks and all sorts of things that require conscious effort, not to mention all of the subconscious efforts that go into running your ship smoothly and liasing with crew (if you have them aboard) issuing orders and seeing that the ship runs like the precision instrument it is, that's without the added bonuses of being able to manage buy/sell orders whilst in space or on the move and check out and organise your PI if you have any.
Hacking would be a pissant task to a mind like this, one that uses computer systems as an extension of it's consciousness that's why I think it should just go back to being a chance based mechanic. I've injected the skills, I've trained them up, why cant I just inject my own virus into the target's mainframe and let it get on with the job, it should have enough AI to hack efficiently for me, all it has to do is report back whether it's been successful or not and trigger the ensuring lootspill or can access as appropriate.
I cant believe that an enhanced capsular mind should have to give the bulk of it's attention to breaking and entering forsaking a look a d-scan or the overview and in doing so leave the ship, it's crew and contents in an extremely vulnerable position for what might be very little gain. Tiericide is tiers by another name. |
Endeavour Starfleet
902
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Posted - 2013.07.02 04:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
I liked the idea of the loot spew at first. It seemed like a good way to force actual players to work together instead of alts.
However what we got instead is an absolute mess.
#1 The spew causes the cans to go in directions often in a way to cause you to bounce off the target. I missed most the cans one time because of this.
#2 The range is absolutely stupid. You need a MWD to have a hope of catching cans that go the furthest away but often times the damn ship flies just away from everything ruining the attempt or making it VERY frustrating
#3 The hacking is awful. It was only fun the first few times and you find yourself in a situation where its impossible to finish it when the core just needs a few hits left or the core is behind one firewall. Also the two fail rule is STUPID. To hisec folks it only slows them down a bit (Mise well not even try any careful exploring because the system next door likely has a site as well) To nullsec folks watching a can pop after you fail is not fun especially if you know you can't explore a region without running into a gatecamp. Mining makes better money.
#4 Prices crashing. The little bit we do get is terrible. Even from the data cans. The price for T2 invention has fallen to the point that again it is better just to mine in nullsec. |
Fr00b Snap
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2013.07.02 11:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium, Fozzie and Rise were drinking Rum&Cola cans at office, when Fozzie made "Your mom " joke about Ytterbium mom, Ytterbium started choking on all Rum&Cola in his mouth and spew all of it out through his nose, while Rise laughing maniacally didn`t notice that some of the spew ejected by Ytterbium flew directly into Rise`s mouth. And another genious idea was born(everyone was drunk obv). On the side note i don`t mind loot spew, mini-game could have more depth tbh. |
Balthazar Lestrane
Happy Endings. The Retirement Club
7
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Posted - 2013.07.02 13:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
bump for more scanning tears |
Scuzzy Logic
Incursion Squad Punkz 'n Monkeys
43
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Posted - 2013.07.02 23:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I don't like the hacking mini game because it feels like an artificial layer added on top of eve.
Don't even get me started as to even WHERE this magical tractor beam come from and as to why a Noctis can't make my life easier. |
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