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JR Morgan
Machtpolitik Test Friends Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 14:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP, I was thinking about some of the recent changes. How do you feel about the Anom changes after 6 months. In this time the NC did fall but I am not sure that had much to do with havens and sanctums. I am reading on the old forums and there are 118 pages of white hot hate about not making the change but it was still implemented. These were the goals of the change do we think it was successful (and did it effect subscriptions of the user base)? Not trying to troll CCP but would be nice if we could we could revisit this in the future.
* Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space * In the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals * Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec * Coalitions will be marginally less stable * Alliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places) |
Knot'Kul Sun
Society Of The Abattoir Rebel Alliance of New Eden
9
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Posted - 2011.10.20 15:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Don't touch anoms.
EDIT: I misunderstood, I fully endorse the idea of bringing anoms to a higher potency. |
Dalek Commander
Lorentzian Traversable Corporation
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 15:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nullsec shrank back to being hot pockets of activity around decent systems, and the rest is empty. The small corps and alliances that used to live there were either absorbed into the larger "parent" alliances, went back to highsec, got into wormholes or simply withered and died.
End result after 6 months is:
- SOV war is nearly impossible for small up and coming alliances to get into (CCP Super Cap nerf will not fix this)
- NAPs are turning into NIPs and minus a serious political or budget blunder the nullsec map will not change
- Vast chunks of nullsec are now empty since any system under -0.45 is near useless unless it has a strategic (moon, station, or jump bridge) value.
- Goons are so bored their only fun is found messing with ice markets
- PL hasn't had a contract in so long their members are found on BF3 more then on EVE battle fields.
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Gasm
Colossus Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 17:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dalek Commander wrote:Nullsec shrank back to being hot pockets of activity around decent systems, and the rest is empty. The small corps and alliances that used to live there were either absorbed into the larger "parent" alliances, went back to highsec, got into wormholes or simply withered and died. End result after 6 months is:
- SOV war is nearly impossible for small up and coming alliances to get into (CCP Super Cap nerf will not fix this)
- NAPs are turning into NIPs and minus a serious political or budget blunder the nullsec map will not change
- Vast chunks of nullsec are now empty since any system under -0.45 is near useless unless it has a strategic (moon, station, or jump bridge) value.
- Goons are so bored their only fun is found messing with ice markets
- PL hasn't had a contract in so long their members are found on BF3 more then on EVE battle fields.
every word of this is... TRUE. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 17:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gasm wrote:Dalek Commander wrote:Nullsec shrank back to being hot pockets of activity around decent systems, and the rest is empty. The small corps and alliances that used to live there were either absorbed into the larger "parent" alliances, went back to highsec, got into wormholes or simply withered and died. End result after 6 months is:
- SOV war is nearly impossible for small up and coming alliances to get into (CCP Super Cap nerf will not fix this)
- NAPs are turning into NIPs and minus a serious political or budget blunder the nullsec map will not change
- Vast chunks of nullsec are now empty since any system under -0.45 is near useless unless it has a strategic (moon, station, or jump bridge) value.
- Goons are so bored their only fun is found messing with ice markets
- PL hasn't had a contract in so long their members are found on BF3 more then on EVE battle fields.
every word of this is... TRUE.
+1 Leave it to ccp to fix one problem (to much liquid isk from anomalies/space to "even") and create anohter, culminatiing in a need to "repopulate" null sec lol
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Amsterdam Conversations
Cheesecake Starshine
30
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Posted - 2011.10.20 17:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wow. You realize that before Dominion, most of the people didn't even know about anomalies?
0.0 was fine back then. Implementing the upgradable anoms without any sort of malus to bad security systems, 0.0 got bloated so hard (remember the maps saying 70000 or so players in NC space?). It was literally impossible to solo roam through NC space in anything but a frigate. The moment the anoms got nerfed again, you were at least good to travel between the bad intersections.
If anything, anomalies lead to carebears coming from empire to 0.0, who unfortunately coming in the thousands can have quite a punch at anyone who is "visiting" their systems.
The first rollout of upgradable anomalies did a lot more harm to 0.0 than good. |
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
203
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Posted - 2011.10.20 18:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
It is late in the day and there are not any developers around but I believe there will be some balance changes to anomalies with the winter release. You should see more details about this in a coming blog from Team BFF
Edit - Just in case I picked up incorrect information, I will aim to give you an update tomorrow. CCP Navigator - Lead Community Representative |
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Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
119
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Posted - 2011.10.20 18:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Amsterdam Conversations wrote:Wow. You realize that before Dominion, most of the people didn't even know about anomalies?
0.0 was fine back then. Implementing the upgradable anoms without any sort of malus to bad security systems, 0.0 got bloated so hard (remember the maps saying 70000 or so players in NC space?). It was literally impossible to solo roam through NC space in anything but a frigate. The moment the anoms got nerfed again, you were at least good to travel between the bad intersections.
If anything, anomalies lead to carebears coming from empire to 0.0, who unfortunately coming in the thousands can have quite a punch at anyone who is "visiting" their systems.
The first rollout of upgradable anomalies did a lot more harm to 0.0 than good.
before dom. 0.0 residenst funded there pvp from mission alts in empire. so were at best 50% 0.0 residents. the anoms changed this. it moved those alts to 0.0. i brought new players to 0.0. new corps and alliances.
so while there were people in 0.0 before dom. there were alot more targets there after. now its back to the same if not lower than before dom.
unless you have these magicly increasing sub numbers hilmar has, teh anom nerf was not only bad for 0.0 grunts, it was bad for eve and ccp.
CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
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JR Morgan
Machtpolitik Test Friends Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 18:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
K thx sounds good. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
197
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Posted - 2011.10.20 18:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Amsterdam Conversations wrote:Wow. You realize that before Dominion, most of the people didn't even know about anomalies?
0.0 was fine back then. Implementing the upgradable anoms without any sort of malus to bad security systems, 0.0 got bloated so hard (remember the maps saying 70000 or so players in NC space?). It was literally impossible to solo roam through NC space in anything but a frigate. The moment the anoms got nerfed again, you were at least good to travel between the bad intersections.
If anything, anomalies lead to carebears coming from empire to 0.0, who unfortunately coming in the thousands can have quite a punch at anyone who is "visiting" their systems.
The first rollout of upgradable anomalies did a lot more harm to 0.0 than good.
Back then everyone had a mission alt or similar moneymaking alt in high-sec. Not to mention chaining worked much better.
Isk faucets were much much smaller so the value of the ISK was much higher. 220m would buy you a 30 day GTC (before they were called PLEX). So before dominion prices weren't as high as they are today.
After sanctum nerf we got the worst of both worlds. High prices introduced with the easy money given by anomalies, and crap space in 80% of nullsec. Like i said in the original "white-hot" thread, it would have been much better if they had removed anomalies alltogether, at least we would see a decrease in prices.
Today its even worse.. less money is beeing made by the average grunt, and things cost even more than they did 6 months ago.
And don't get me wrong, i have access to both sanctums and profitable LVL 4 agents so my money is guaranteed regardless. But i have no use for my money, if other people can't afford ships to fight me like it currently is in null-sec. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
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White Tree
XxBroski North Reloaded Federation NinjaGuldDotxX. Elite Space Guild
429
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Posted - 2011.10.20 18:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have continuously moaned about the Anom changes since their release. I felt, and continue to feel that they had no impact on sovereignty warfare, and all they did was make the lives of the average foot-soldier in the average nullsec alliance a nightmare.
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Raid'En
Apprentice Innovations
79
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dalek Commander wrote:
- Vast chunks of nullsec are now empty since any system under -0.45 is near useless unless it has a strategic (moon, station, or jump bridge) value.
got on sov null not long ago and was wondering if that was normal or not... so it was not like that before the nerf ? |
White Tree
XxBroski North Reloaded Federation NinjaGuldDotxX. Elite Space Guild
429
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Raid'En wrote:Dalek Commander wrote:
- Vast chunks of nullsec are now empty since any system under -0.45 is near useless unless it has a strategic (moon, station, or jump bridge) value.
got on sov null not long ago and was wondering if that was normal or not... so it was not like that before the nerf ?
In the week between CSM5 leaving office and CSM6 entering office, CCP Greyscale pushed a change to anoms making it so that sanctums were only available in the high end security systems, and havens were available in the low ends, anything 0.4 and lower basically has nothing. CSM6 hates this system and continues to object to it. |
White Tree
XxBroski North Reloaded Federation NinjaGuldDotxX. Elite Space Guild
429
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Double post. |
Jack bubu
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
52
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
White Tree wrote:I have continuously moaned about the Anom changes since their release. I felt, and continue to feel that they had no impact on sovereignty warfare, and all they did was make the lives of the average foot-soldier in the average nullsec alliance a nightmare.
It took away a overpowered isk making machine.
It was a redicoulus ISK generator totally out of scale, just like (highsec) incursions are now. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
95
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Navigator wrote:It is late in the day and there are not any developers around but I believe there will be some balance changes to anomalies with the winter release. You should see more details about this in a coming blog from Team BFF Edit - Just in case I picked up incorrect information, I will aim to give you an update tomorrow.
By this he means...
"Anomalies are now moved entirely to High Sec. Lowsec and Nullsec as well as WH space will no longer have anomalies."
At least thats the kind of descision I have come to expect from CCP in these kinds of matters...I guess we will see though. Maybe they will listen to the community and implement the system to be based on Sov as was suggested numerous times on the old forums? Support the cause! [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19266&find=unread[/url] |
Hrald
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jack bubu wrote:White Tree wrote:I have continuously moaned about the Anom changes since their release. I felt, and continue to feel that they had no impact on sovereignty warfare, and all they did was make the lives of the average foot-soldier in the average nullsec alliance a nightmare.
It took away a overpowered isk making machine. It was a redicoulus ISK generator totally out of scale, just like (highsec) incursions are now. Well, let us examine their goals then, shall we?
Quote:1.) Some alliances will immediately start wanting to look for better space 2.) In the longer run, there'll be more conflicts going on, with more localized goals 3.) Newer alliances will have an easier time getting a foothold in nullsec 4.) Coalitions will be marginally less stable 5.) Alliances will have to choose more carefully what space they develop, where their staging systems are, and so on (low truesec systems generally tend to be in strategically inconvenient places)
1: This would be admirable if nullsec alliances didn't control pretty large chunks of space. Many have a number of -1.0 systems within their space.
2: Conflict, just like the real world, is driven by money. If a pilot can afford ships more readily, they are more willing to put them on the line for the alliance. Basically more ships means more people x'ing up to kill things. This generates more conflict. Making people poorer doesn't. I couldn't sit in havens for several hours a day just to afford a decent PvP ship, so I pretty much didn't PvP for a couple months while I afk trained into a zealot to do incursions. Suddenly I had money again and oh look, my killboard became active again.
3.) Welp, this certainly hasn't happened.
4.) What destabilized the North was that they committed the cardinal sin of invading Russians. It never ends well. Aside from that, what has decided conflicts is money, who can afford the most supers, the most caps, etc. So taking away isk making actually makes it more difficult to unseat larger powers.
5.) I suppose this is somewhat true in that players will base themselves closer to the crowded truesec systems, but I personally didn't even bother because of how crowded they were.
You're from PL, do you really want to make people poorer so they can't afford ships to pad your killboard stats even more? C'maaaaan. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
43
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
White Tree wrote: I felt, and continue to feel that they had no impact on sovereignty warfare, and all they did was make the lives of the average foot-soldier in the average nullsec alliance a nightmare.
So true. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
171
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
IMO, make it so every nullsec system can have santum spawns, make it so the lowend nullsec systems have to actually scan for it though, this means a probe launcher and probes btw.
this will help prevent botting and whatnot, while still keeping those high end systems still high end.
santums should be about as hard to scan down as a highsec wormhole ( which is easy btw) |
White Tree
XxBroski North Reloaded Federation NinjaGuldDotxX. Elite Space Guild
435
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jack bubu wrote: It took away a overpowered isk making machine.
Yeah then they buffed level 4s and made them a lot more profitable. Because thats what hisec players needed, more easy ISK that never gets blown up. |
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Lee'lei
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 19:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
I love how everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that you can STILL make more money in highsec regardless of any Risk vs. Reward ****. I'm pretty sure that's why the sov upgrades where implemented, to allow people living in 0.0 to ACTUALLY live in 0.0, instead of PvPing in 0.0 and living in highsec running lvl4's.
We've basically gone full circle and are back to the point where 0.0 is poor as ---- on a personal (not alliance) level.
Nerf missions and buff 0.0 to a level where Risk vs. Reward is viable again, screw the value of isk, it'l balance out sooner or later. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
198
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Posted - 2011.10.20 20:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
White Tree wrote:Jack bubu wrote: It took away a overpowered isk making machine.
Yeah then they buffed level 4s and made them a lot more profitable. Because thats what hisec players needed, more easy ISK that never gets blown up.
As delicate and as gentle as a 10 inches thick steel door.
That is why you, trebor and seleene are my favourites xD Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
White Tree
XxBroski North Reloaded Federation NinjaGuldDotxX. Elite Space Guild
436
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Posted - 2011.10.20 20:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
I just hate it when people are wrong. Not even wrong via the proxy of my interpretation of a statement being subject to my opinion about whether or not something is wrong. But when someone is basically just wrong. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
198
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Posted - 2011.10.20 20:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Don't look now, but there might be another buff coming for high-sec missioning in the form of a FW tweak. That is, removing faction NPC police. If you don't know how that affects missioning i'm not going to bother to educate.
And i also don't understand the ones who said that the anom nerf brought about a good riddance when the "carebears" and the "noobs" were forced to leave. Null-sec is looking so much better for PVP, with such an abundant disposition of clueless targets for us to shoot now that they are all gone.. All hail the anom nerf.
sigh.. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2011.10.20 20:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Amsterdam Conversations wrote:Wow. You realize that before Dominion, most of the people didn't even know about anomalies?
0.0 was fine back then. Implementing the upgradable anoms without any sort of malus to bad security systems, 0.0 got bloated so hard (remember the maps saying 70000 or so players in NC space?). It was literally impossible to solo roam through NC space in anything but a frigate. The moment the anoms got nerfed again, you were at least good to travel between the bad intersections.
If anything, anomalies lead to carebears coming from empire to 0.0, who unfortunately coming in the thousands can have quite a punch at anyone who is "visiting" their systems.
The first rollout of upgradable anomalies did a lot more harm to 0.0 than good. Back then everyone had a mission alt or similar moneymaking alt in high-sec. Not to mention chaining worked much better. Isk faucets were much much smaller so the value of the ISK was much higher. 220m would buy you a 30 day GTC (before they were called PLEX). So before dominion prices weren't as high as they are today. After sanctum nerf we got the worst of both worlds. High prices introduced with the easy money given by anomalies, and crap space in 80% of nullsec. Like i said in the original "white-hot" thread, it would have been much better if they had removed anomalies alltogether, at least we would see a decrease in prices. Today its even worse.. less money is beeing made by the average grunt, and things cost even more than they did 6 months ago. And don't get me wrong, i have access to both sanctums and profitable LVL 4 agents so my money is guaranteed regardless. But i have no use for my money, if other people can't afford ships to fight me like it currently is in null-sec. QFT.
Also, pre-dominion, wealth was much more concentrated in the hands of R64 moon owners (and T2 BPO holders).
With the Dominion patch (as much as I loath its Sov mechanics), the smaller guy was able to make some ISK in order to afford the next level of ships for which s/he had been training. The little guy was finally able to gain some financial independence WHILE LIVING AND FIGHTING IN NULL-SEC.
This should not be underestimated.
When a pilot makes bank and generally spends most of their in-game time in null-sec with corp mates, the social fabric (MMO, right?) of the entity is far superior than when there are a bunch of high-sec mission / Incursion runners who may or may not actually be around to fight roaming gangs or defend a structure timer.
How CCP believes that it is better for corp members to segment themselves off into high and null-sec groups is beyond me.
And CCP Greyscale never responded to this type of question once he shat out the anomaly change this past Spring. Furthermore, Greyscale never addressed the significant loss of ISK invested by smaller entities in Sovereignty structures and upgrades rendered valueless by the anom change. It is not that these items were auto-magically destroyed, but that the entities installing them honestly believed that they would see X-return when, post-patch, they were shafted with Y-returns.
If there was ever a change to raise the ire of the subscriber base, this was it. [edit]And then CCP released Incarna. A double whammy in the same quarter did nothing good for CCP's relations with its customers.[/edit]
Is CCP Greyscale still employed by CCP? 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284286 |
Lee'lei
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 20:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lets have a look at making money in eve (instant cash that is).
Highsec (99.9% safe, can be done almost afk):- lvl4 running (this is minmaxing LP, like you should): anywhere between 80-150m/hour (highest recorded is 250m/hour) Highsec incursions (inc. LP): 100-170m/hour
Lowsec (reasonably safe, no bubbles and you're in a fleet for both):- Lowsec incursions (inc. LP): 180-240m/hour lvl5 mission running: unknown (not many run them due to risk)
0.0 (unsafe, cloaky campers and logoff traps everywhere, have to be constantly aware) :- Combat sites (pre-nerf): 100-170m/hour <----- any upgraded 0.0 (note, this costs and takes heavy logistics) Combat sites (post-nerf): 70-100m/hour <-----IN A -0.8 SYSTEM!
Ignore escalations, you get maybe one every few days unless you poopsock and aren't soloable unless you have 3 alts, the rewards also vary heavily based on pure luck.
Please, tell me pre-nerfed combat sites are overpowered isk printing machines, I'd love to hear more. |
White Tree
XxBroski North Reloaded Federation NinjaGuldDotxX. Elite Space Guild
436
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Posted - 2011.10.20 20:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
Is CCP Greyscale still employed by CCP?
Yes. |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2011.10.20 20:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
White Tree wrote:Hakaru Ishiwara wrote:
Is CCP Greyscale still employed by CCP?
Yes. Thanks for the response; not surprising.
Have procedural, management and disciplinary controls been put into place to limit the amount of damage that he can do with future game design changes? 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284286 |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
5
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Posted - 2011.10.20 20:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
An unmentioned part of the anom problem is that most of them suck terribly.Other than the 2 flavors of havens and sanctums, the only anom worth doing is forsaken hubs (which ROCK btw, I don't even screw with sanctums and havens when forsaken hubs are available).
All the other hubs (regular, forlorn, and hidden) suck magical unicorn balls, and the rally points aren't even worth considering. You don't NEED more havens and sanctums, you could simply make it to where the other anomalie types don't suck so much. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
198
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Posted - 2011.10.20 20:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
Now now.. Greyscale aint a bad dev. He just had a bad idea and got convinced by the wrong people that this was the way to go. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
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