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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1812
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Posted - 2013.05.14 14:36:00 -
[481] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:[
Here's another fit where the CNR is just straight up worse than it used to be: PVE CCNR 7 Cruise, Tractor ...
Of course, now it becomes: 8 Cruise ...
-Liang
Which makes it better for blitzing missions and doing null sec PVE. That tractor only helps ...if you tractor stuff and in 5 years I've never seen anyone who uses on in null sec put a tractor beam on one. Being able to kill scramming npc frigs in null sec very quicky before a neut can land and scam you (especially since Forsaken Hubs is getting scramming frigs) is pure gold. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1119
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Posted - 2013.05.14 14:42:00 -
[482] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:
I thought you might be trying to compare damage without the benefit of webs/painters. Well, yes, if you flew your Raven like a total incompetent before you'll be better off now. The rest of us will be worse.
-Liang
Even with a target painter the Raven out-performs the Typhoon against sub-battleships. Unless we're imagining a scenario where the Typhoon pilot brings one and the Raven pilot doesn't...? Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2013.05.14 14:43:00 -
[483] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:...The problem is, that the proposed "tracking" buff for missiles just doesn't cut what the raven lost on potencial DPS. The application bonus is (on the PvE-side) only useful against Elite cruisers and frigs on a proper fitted CNR... The question is.. did CCP propose the massive buff to Cruise Missiles already knowing they were going to adjust the CNR or were they separate designs? PS. I would prefer the ROF bonus personally.
I'm totaly aware that this might have been the case, however, the CNR has nothing for PvE which makes it better over their competitors with these changes, and that is what bugs me along with the fact that it will have 1 3/4 of useless bonus's for PvE...
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1812
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Posted - 2013.05.14 14:49:00 -
[484] - Quote
Gimme more Cynos wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Gimme more Cynos wrote:...The problem is, that the proposed "tracking" buff for missiles just doesn't cut what the raven lost on potencial DPS. The application bonus is (on the PvE-side) only useful against Elite cruisers and frigs on a proper fitted CNR... The question is.. did CCP propose the massive buff to Cruise Missiles already knowing they were going to adjust the CNR or were they separate designs? PS. I would prefer the ROF bonus personally. I'm totaly aware that this might have been the case, however, the CNR has nothing for PvE which makes it better over their competitors with these changes, and that is what bugs me along with the fact that it will have 1 3/4 of useless bonus's for PvE... I
I posted about in the mission forum to get some input there. You'll be interested in this post https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3025982#post3025982
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Klingon Admiral
Black Hole Cluster
20
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Posted - 2013.05.14 14:52:00 -
[485] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:[ - The math between 1 rigor and 2 flares is basically even. This means that the Golem's BLA II, Rigor I is pretty much equivalent. - The Golem's bonus is to explo velocity, not radius. The CNR's bonus is very slightly better, but massively overpowered by the TP bonus. Basically: The Golem can already do what you're excited about, except it does it significantly better. We have a good base line for the best the new CNR can possibly pan out - and that baseline is worse than today's CNR. -Liang Ed: Amusingly the Golem even has the alpha that Malcanis is so excited about. I'm mildly amused by his insistence that the new CNR is so amazing considering the Golem's been in game forever.
- I ran calculations, comparing the hit quality of the CNR with that of the Golem against the following targets:
"Frigate": 360 m/sec; 29m sigradius "Cruiser": 160 m/sec; 190m sigradius "Battleship": 140 m/sec; 400m sigradius
In this calculations, the CNR had 2 Flares fitted, the Golem 1 Rigor, in addtion both ships utilized 2 PWNAGEs.
T1 Missiles vs Frig: 14,07% CNR; 14,87% Golem T1 Missiles vs Cruiser: both ships hit for full damage T1 Missiles vs BS: both ships hit for full damage
Fury Missiles vs Frig: 6,9% CNR; 7,3% Golem Fury Missiles vs Cruiser: 79,8% CNR; 85,5% Golem Fury Missiles vs BS: both ships hit for full damage
As seen, the better damage application really only affects cases that should not occur in PvE. Of course, Torps are a completely different affair, but a Torp-Golem can be quite exhausting from time to time.
And two flares because of my OCD. =D |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
977
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:58:00 -
[486] - Quote
Pattern Clarc wrote:The explosion radius and velocity bonus should be rolled into one for the navy raven tbh. ok then reduce to 7 launcher hard points and add a rof bonus. Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
977
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:01:00 -
[487] - Quote
can someone give me a tldr of the last 12 pages i am too hungover to read them...
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
el cowboy
Winged Victory Corporation Get Off My Lawn
1
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:04:00 -
[488] - Quote
I think the Navy Domi not getting the tracking bonus is stupid. You all made a good choice making the normal Domi a full drone boat, why not follow with the Navy version? Does not make any sense to me.
The Galente changes are weak all around in my opinion. |
Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
34
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:05:00 -
[489] - Quote
Is there a reason the Navy Mega isn't any different from the regular mega essentially except for drone bandwidth? |
Jason Sirober
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
17
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:07:00 -
[490] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:MinutemanKirk wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:MeBiatch wrote:MinutemanKirk wrote:Any particular reason why you don't want to make the Dominix have 20 fitting slots like every other Navy BS? Would be kinda nice to have 8 low slots since it's a split weapon platform AND supposed to be armor tanked... drones. apparently drone utility negates a fitting slot for some reason. Because drones can imitate a target painter, web, jammer, dampener, reps, or dps, so ships that specialize in high drone payloads receive one less slot. An armor tanked ship isn't going to NEED drones for EWAR with 6 mids. As the domi only has 6 turrets, 90% of the time drones are used for DPS. As the navy variant will be keeping the turret bonus, it will promote needing to use magstabs in addition to drone damage augs thus meaning a smaller tank. As drones have expressly been stated as needing work, saying that the flexibility of drones = 1 low slot is hardly right. If that were the case the Mega would need to lose a low as it has plenty of drone options as well. I'm not sure if anybody has bothered to tell you this yet in life, but I'll go ahead and be the first:: Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it wrong or factually incorrect.
Exibit 1... Navy Geddon has 375m3 drone space and DOESN'T lose a fitting slot???? How is this balanced?
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Drunken Bum
310
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:10:00 -
[491] - Quote
Deathwing Reborn wrote:I am HIGHLY disappointed that the Dominix is not receiving the new T1 bonuses. Please pass those along. I wanted to fly the Navy Domi with the tracking bonuses. This is the absolute dumbest thing I've heard all year, and this morning i listened to a deunken native laughing at jokes a child would tell. Please be trolling. Spare some change?-á |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
977
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:14:00 -
[492] - Quote
Jason Sirober wrote:don't agree with something doesn't make it wrong or factually incorrect.
Exibit 1... Navy Geddon has 375m3 drone space and DOESN'T lose a fitting slot???? How is this balanced?
touche! Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Drunken Bum
310
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:16:00 -
[493] - Quote
el cowboy wrote:I think the Navy Domi not getting the tracking bonus is stupid. You all made a good choice making the normal Domi a full drone boat, why not follow with the Navy version? Does not make any sense to me.
The Galente changes are weak all around in my opinion. Have you TRIED the regular domi on sisi? Its terrible. They broke that ship. Im guessing they know it, but are too stubborn/prideful to admit they ****** up hard with one of the most used battleships in the game. Spare some change?-á |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
977
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:16:00 -
[494] - Quote
el cowboy wrote:I think the Navy Domi not getting the tracking bonus is stupid. You all made a good choice making the normal Domi a full drone boat, why not follow with the Navy version? Does not make any sense to me.
The Galente changes are weak all around in my opinion.
apparently there are some pople who use it in a niche role for doing missions with blaster setup...
thats why.
other wise its a half billion glass cannon
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Flanneh
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
0
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:20:00 -
[495] - Quote
Does anyone have a link to the EFT stuff that has the new values for these ships?
Kinda gutted to see my PVE Torp CNR lose some raw dps, but whether that will be offset by increased damage application (under web/painter) will have to be seen. From what I have read here, probably not.
Correct me if I'm wrong Malcanis, but any PVE torp CNR will be decreased in dps, will it not? You are singing the praises of it in cruise, but the ability to choose weapon system is pretty damn important.
^^ The above statement comes with zero maths. **** that stuff |
Drunken Bum
310
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:21:00 -
[496] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Drunken Bum wrote:Turelus wrote:CNR is king of PVE again? Only people who havent flown a machariel say this ;) You do know that Tracking Enhancers are getting nerf soon, and later the Mach (and cynabal) are getting nerfed right? Well aware. You're aware it'll still have 55km falloff with the proposed te changes? It'l most likely get reduced speed and increased sig. Im pretty sure i'd still take it over the cnr. I'd take the new phoon over the cnr even Spare some change?-á |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
977
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:27:00 -
[497] - Quote
Flanneh wrote:Does anyone have a link to the EFT stuff that has the new values for these ships?
Kinda gutted to see my PVE Torp CNR lose some raw dps, but whether that will be offset by increased damage application (under web/painter) will have to be seen. From what I have read here, probably not.
Correct me if I'm wrong Malcanis, but any PVE torp CNR will be decreased in dps, will it not? You are singing the praises of it in cruise, but the ability to choose weapon system is pretty damn important.
^^ The above statement comes with zero maths. **** that stuff
from what i understand less potential dps
but more applied dps. Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
977
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:31:00 -
[498] - Quote
mynnna wrote:So hey, gonna throw this in amongst the bickering. Quote:[NEW Megathron Navy Issue, Fleet] 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Internal Force Field Array I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Adaptive Nano Plating II Dark Blood Armor Explosive Hardener Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 150 F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Garde II x5 Vespa EC-600 x5 930 DPS with Gardes (realistically, use sentries with longer range, but it's still a lot of dps), 150k EHP, aligns in 10 seconds, moves at 1033m/s, has a heavy neut if things try to go to zero on you, and only needs booster 150s at a minimum to be cap stable. It's kinda good. Might be slightly disadvantaged in solo/small gang compared to the Vindicator, but it's a fine fleet ship.
so pretty much you launch the sentries... then you have to emerg warp out... half the fleet does not have time to recall so now you have no sentry dps... and you are down to what? 550-600 dps?
also you slow due to plates and trimarks...
if you were going armor why not use the apoc?
if you are going rails i dont see why you would not use the rokh... its cheaper better range and comparable dps and ehp... plus the benefits of shield rr. Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Flanneh
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
0
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:32:00 -
[499] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:from what i understand less potential dps
but more applied dps.
Yer, a wait and see I suppose. Cruises look fun, eh ;) |
Ager Agemo
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
297
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:33:00 -
[500] - Quote
wait... that navy raven.. got nerfed? what the hell? ravens with triple rigor rigs already hit targets pretty well with or without the exp bonus, it is getting lower real DPS an eight turret WILL NOT make up for the loss of a ROF bonus.
tho I guess taking onto account cruise missile bonuses it will become some sort of alpha missile ship which looks nice..
also typhoon will kick ass ! @.@ |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
977
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:41:00 -
[501] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:wait... that navy raven.. got nerfed? what the hell? ravens with triple rigor rigs already hit targets pretty well with or without the exp bonus, it is getting lower real DPS an eight turret WILL NOT make up for the loss of a ROF bonus.
tho I guess taking onto account cruise missile bonuses it will become some sort of alpha missile ship which looks nice..
also typhoon will kick ass ! @.@
well now you can drop a rigor for a damage rig or rof rig or whatever kind of rig you would place if you had the chan e to drop a riggor. Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
126
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:43:00 -
[502] - Quote
Alexander Renoir wrote:CCP Rise wrote:
The GÇÿstandardGÇÖ upgrade package for Navy BS is an extra slot (along with appropriate fitting adjustment) as well as approximately 50% more hitpoints. Some of these rebalanced versions will follow that pattern very closely, while others will diverge more significantly to completely new bonuses and roles. .... We are giving the CNR an 8th launcher to make up for the loss of the rate of fire bonus, and replacing rate of fire with a bonus to explosion radius. Along with the incoming buff to cruise missiles, this ship is going to be an animal.
Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses: +5% bonus to Torpedo and Cruise Missile explosion radius +10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity
Slot layout: 8H, 7M(+1), 5L; 0 turrets , 8 launchers(+1) Defense (shields / armor / hull): 10500(-750) / 8000(-1961) / 9500(-461)
WHY Do you want to nerf my CNR?I fly my ship with ALL LEVEL 5 Skills and if I calculate with the Rate Of Fire Bonus, I would have 8,75 Launcher (+25% from 7 launcher = +1,75) now. Even with Battle Ship-Skill Level 3 this would be still 8.05 Launchers! 8.05 Launchers which I would have NOW!And now you come to me and say you will buff the CNR? No Sir, you effectively nerf it! The end of your "adjustment" is, that I have to use more ammunition, have less damage and lose my Tractor Beam from an high Slot! You want to rebuild my CNR into a ship for rookies? Your modification is better for some one with Battle Ship Skill Level 2. But if you have L3 or L5 (like me) you absolutely lose firepower and a high-Slot for a tractor beam. Additionaly you do not give MORE hitpoints to my ship, you want to take some hitpoints away! Keep the Rate Of Firebonus. Keep the tractor beam. The Med-slot is nice but not necessary. I came back after a break from EVE. Now I see that this was a mistake. I am dissapointed that you try to bring a nerf but want to sell it as an buff! I will cancel my subscription again. Edit: Two Eve Subscriptions Cancelled! Bye!
Can I haves your stuff?? |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2810
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:43:00 -
[503] - Quote
Is there a specific reason why NPC corp members are allowed to post on the forums?
Read only access, and posting rights to the new player area would suffice.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
59
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:43:00 -
[504] - Quote
I don't like that you've given the Raven, RNI, SNI and Golem identical missile dps. Sure there are other variables that are different, but imo it's still unnecessary homogenization. |
Tim Ryder
Flippin DaBird Corporation 2
3
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:46:00 -
[505] - Quote
Main CNR problem is - still - getting 45tf CPU to drive a midslot *and* a launcher, when the launcher alone takes 57tf with proper rigs. That'll take some fiddling to fit, won't add another coprocessor. |
Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
143
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:48:00 -
[506] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:can someone give me a tldr of the last 12 pages i am too hungover to read them...
Usual eve forum stuff. People using tractor beams as balance arguments for navy battleships. Making one sided arguments and then actually believing them.
Did anybody check viability of furies against cruiser size vessels when used by CNR? With the new bonus it might just be viable |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
977
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:50:00 -
[507] - Quote
Roime wrote:Is there a specific reason why NPC corp members are allowed to post on the forums?
Read only access, and posting rights to the new player area would suffice.
get a life. Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2013.05.14 15:53:00 -
[508] - Quote
Tim Ryder wrote:Main CNR problem is - still - getting 45tf CPU to drive a midslot *and* a launcher, when the launcher alone takes 57tf with proper rigs. That'll take some fiddling to fit, won't add another coprocessor. You think it's bad with trying to squeeze cruises on it? Try putting torps on it and actually fit the rest of the ship :P
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Ager Agemo
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
297
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Posted - 2013.05.14 16:03:00 -
[509] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:wait... that navy raven.. got nerfed? what the hell? ravens with triple rigor rigs already hit targets pretty well with or without the exp bonus, it is getting lower real DPS an eight turret WILL NOT make up for the loss of a ROF bonus.
tho I guess taking onto account cruise missile bonuses it will become some sort of alpha missile ship which looks nice..
also typhoon will kick ass ! @.@ well now you can drop a rigor for a damage rig or rof rig or whatever kind of rig you would place if you had the chan e to drop a riggor.
dropping a rigor and changing it for a damage rig will not help, its simple math:
7 launchers * (1/0.75) rof bonus = 9.33 launchers
8 launchers * no bonus = 8 launchers?
Damage application will be the VERY EXACT SAME since a SINGLE RIG can make up for that explo bonus.
so overall its a very nasty nerf to the ship, after running some more math it seems the CNS will be doing 7.98 launchers damage, and given it already has the very same damage application due to rigs but one more low slot, you can add one more BCU (tho heavy penalized).
all in all, this seems like all the navy battleships are the same thing if not weaker than their T1 counterparts, except for the EHP and that nice typhoon. |
Goldensaver
Fishii Enterprise
178
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Posted - 2013.05.14 16:14:00 -
[510] - Quote
Tim Ryder wrote:Main CNR problem is - still - getting 45tf CPU to drive a midslot *and* a launcher, when the launcher alone takes 57tf with proper rigs. That'll take some fiddling to fit, won't add another coprocessor. Well, pretty much all I had to say was this, and he beat me to it.
My CNR fits are all pretty tight already, with 6 mids and an empty high. Adding another launcher at ~57 CPU (triple rigors, now that we have a couple built in flares, and because of the explosion radius increase in Odyssey) but with only ~56 more CPU added will be tough, and that's not even going on to the extra mid. I mathed it with a 4x BCU, cruise 2 mission setup, and I'll have most of it fit, but only have 36.5 CPU to fill the last 2 mids.
Still, I can't complain. It'll kill cruisers and up with ease, and still apply good damage to frigates.
Flanneh wrote:Does anyone have a link to the EFT stuff that has the new values for these ships?
Kinda gutted to see my PVE Torp CNR lose some raw dps, but whether that will be offset by increased damage application (under web/painter) will have to be seen. From what I have read here, probably not.
Correct me if I'm wrong Malcanis, but any PVE torp CNR will be decreased in dps, will it not? You are singing the praises of it in cruise, but the ability to choose weapon system is pretty damn important.
^^ The above statement comes with zero maths. **** that stuff The paper DPS goes down, but the applied DPS to anything under battleship, perhaps battlecruiser will go up a fair amount.
Also worth remembering is the cruise missile buff going out in Odyssey, increasing DPS of cruises by ~30%, while increasing the explosion radius by 10%. I think the CNR will come out substantially better after the patch.
Also getting a pretty substantial buff to capacitor, so can't complain there.
I would comment on the others, but I don't typically fly Navy Battleships. |
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