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Xiaodown
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
103
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Posted - 2013.05.09 04:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Almost all cynos are lit on T1 frigates.
Cynos cycle for ten minutes. It takes about 5 seconds, maximum, to jump to a cyno, after it's lit.
Which means you're sitting there, on some station in low sec, in a defenseless ship, unable to dock or move, waving a big "COME F**K ME" flag.
At the absolute best case scenario, you waste ten minutes of your life that you'll never get back, waiting to dock up your dumb cyno ship. This really serves no purpose other than to simply waste time.
The other alternative is that some low-sec ELITE PVPER comes and blows you up, or you get bombed by a cloaker. This is usually more annoying than it is anything else, especially since noob ships (shut up, amarr, get back on the short bus) can fit cyno gens and liquid ozone now. It's dumb, zero risk PVP; it's meaningless.
Anyway, my point is, can we please change the timer on the cyno generator module? I'm not trying to buy a f*cking engagement ring for my cyno, I'm not making a lifestyle commitment. I'm trying to jump my stuff in/out/around. But I have to deal with waiting for these dumb timers that are twice as long as a siege module to finish cycling before I can move my cyno ship somewhere else, or dock up to trade ozone, or whatever.
When your best case scenario is wasting people's time for no reason, and the worst case is meaningless, zero-risk "pvp", I think there's room for improvement.
And to be honest, I wouldn't care if it cycled in, say, 30 seconds AND used the same amount of fuel as it currently does now for the ten minute timer.
As long as you guys are looking for low-hanging fruit, this is one that's glaringly obvious. |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
9
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Posted - 2013.05.09 04:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
I could see another skill be implemented that would require cyno 3 or 4, that reduces the duration of normal cynos by 10% per level. You would probably also have to argue to decrease the fuel cost by like 5% per level as well so the people who actually light a cyno and try to use the same cyno for multiple round trips don't complain.
The nice thing about that skill then is if you used a recon ship, you could get the cyno down to 2.5 minutes due to the recon ships hull bonus, which is deserved considering you can use a noob ship to light a cyno instead of a 150 mil isk ship. |
Xiaodown
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
103
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Posted - 2013.05.09 04:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hopelesshobo wrote: The nice thing about that skill then is if you used a recon ship, you could get the cyno down to 2.5 minutes due to the recon ships hull bonus, which is deserved considering you can use a noob ship to light a cyno instead of a 150 mil isk ship.
Yeah, but no one does that. Because there's not a recon ship in the game that could stand up against a cheap brutix or anything that can tank station guns in low sec, and you can buy roughly 250 kestrels for the cost of one rapier. 2.5 minutes is still an eternity, and no one is dumb enough to feed recon kills to wanabe pirates. |
kyrieee
Snuff Box Urine Alliance
122
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Posted - 2013.05.09 08:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you think it's such a hassle then just self destruct your ship. The timer is there for situations where you aren't just cynoing your ratting Carrier on a station and it should stay. |
Valleria Darkmoon
Heretic Army Atrocitas
117
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Posted - 2013.05.09 08:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
I've been known to pop and pod my own cyno ships on longer trips if podding them gets them to the next jump faster instead of waiting 10 minutes, just saying.
Otherwise I assume all cyno ships are complete throwaways which is why you use things that cost very little or nothing, if they survive great, if not, who cares. Since the fuel almost costs as much as the cyno ship just chalk it up to the cost of business and move on. If someone pops it to make themselves feel better be glad you could help brighten their day. Also I pop cyno frigs on station in low sec with a Corax...LIKE A BOSS. |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
768
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Posted - 2013.05.09 09:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Geezus, you just safely jumped your shinies without risking them on every gate, just self destruct that cyno frig and GTFO instead crying about ppl coming and popping it while you sit there like a moron. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2717
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Posted - 2013.05.09 10:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Easy fix- make it impossible to train cyno on disposable low SP alts, impossible to fit a cyno on frigates (T2 battleships and capitals only), and suddenly you have meaningful PVP as a result of cynoing.
It's not the timer, it's the throwaway alts.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Beaver Retriever
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
74
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Posted - 2013.05.09 11:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Roime wrote:Easy fix- make it impossible to train cyno on disposable low SP alts, impossible to fit a cyno on frigates (T2 battleships and capitals only), and suddenly you have meaningful PVP as a result of cynoing.
It's not the timer, it's the throwaway alts.
Of all things. T2 battleships and capitals?
This is an idiotic idea, by the way, for the slow ones in the crowd. Or someone trolling. I hope it's the last bit, for his sake. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
495
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Posted - 2013.05.09 11:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
use noob ship for cyno on cyno alt, use it, log off, dont care about timer or ship loss. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2718
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Beaver Retriever wrote:Roime wrote:Easy fix- make it impossible to train cyno on disposable low SP alts, impossible to fit a cyno on frigates (T2 battleships and capitals only), and suddenly you have meaningful PVP as a result of cynoing.
It's not the timer, it's the throwaway alts.
Of all things. T2 battleships and capitals? This is an idiotic idea, by the way, for the slow ones in the crowd. Or someone trolling. I hope it's the last bit, for his sake.
Yes, it would be a massive change to power projection, for the better.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
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Beaver Retriever
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
75
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Posted - 2013.05.09 12:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Roime wrote:Beaver Retriever wrote:Roime wrote:Easy fix- make it impossible to train cyno on disposable low SP alts, impossible to fit a cyno on frigates (T2 battleships and capitals only), and suddenly you have meaningful PVP as a result of cynoing.
It's not the timer, it's the throwaway alts.
Of all things. T2 battleships and capitals? This is an idiotic idea, by the way, for the slow ones in the crowd. Or someone trolling. I hope it's the last bit, for his sake. Yes, it would be a massive change to power projection, for the better. It would prohibit casual use of capitals for logistics, whilst large nullsec groups would laugh all the way to the bank, using carriers and brick-tanked blops as cyno bait until no one even bothers attacking one any more.
I guess if what you meant was 'it would be a Christmas gift to PL and the like and a turd with a bow on it to everyone else in the game', then yea. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14739
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
My idea. Leaves us with the option's we have now, but with a more tactical and ship specific nature.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Dring Dingle
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
22
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
- Keep cyno's how they are/their side effects. - Introduce a "cyno rig" reducing cyno duration by 80% so a 2 min cyno. or even 90%... ? - side effect of cyno rig... all resists to 0 upon cyno activation and untill the cyno goes out.
risk vs reward.
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
2722
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Beaver Retriever wrote: It would prohibit casual use of capitals for logistics
You're saying that like it's a bad thing
As what comes to using cyno baits, you think limiting cynos to certain ships would make it worse than currently?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
monkfish2345
D'reg The Methodical Alliance
80
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Posted - 2013.05.09 13:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Personally i'd be happy in a situation where only cov ops and recons could cyno.
if your really concerned about losing your cyno ship, there is a fairly simple answer...... defend it. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
15
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
monkfish2345 wrote:Personally i'd be happy in a situation where only cov ops and recons could cyno.
if your really concerned about losing your cyno ship, there is a fairly simple answer...... defend it.
Sounds legit. Guaranteed covops/recon kill at most every cyno you see sounds sweet. |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
96
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
You can limit cyno to 2 minute timer. Simply self destruct ship, or ask someone to reduce this time more.
I think whole "jump" mechanic should be changed, and reducing time is not the proper way to do this. If you want to change something - ad a maximum number ships that can jump to cyno, and you can fix loot of issues in eve ;)
As your Customers - we thank you - CCP. [1/17/2013 11:21:16 AM] seleene_ge: I don't even understand why CCP has a forum. No one at CCP reads it. <---- True Story. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
15
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Posted - 2013.05.09 14:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:You can limit cyno to 2 minute timer. Simply self destruct ship, or ask someone to reduce this time more.
I think whole "jump" mechanic should be changed, and reducing time is not the proper way to do this. If you want to change something - ad a maximum number ships that can jump to cyno, and you can fix loot of issues in eve ;)
I think the only thing stopping them from putting some sort of ship/mass limitation on cynos is that the simple, cheap counter to it is just more cynos. Then you're going to have to introduce some other mechanic to limit the number of cynos, etc. It becomes ridiculous after a while, all because some folks can't stand for their paperdoll cyno alt (you folks have one, right?) to sit in a ship for two minutes waiting to self destruct. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
252
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Can't say it bothers me (I do have several cyno alts tho so I don't have any downtime waiting on a timer) - even got some fights out of it - tho inevitably end up with the agressor de-aggroing and docking up when they realise they aren't getting an easy kill without significant risk of also losing their own ship.
Infact (probably speaking too soon) I've lit more than 2 dozen cynos in my eve career without so far losing a single cyno ship mostly by somewhat being smart about when and how I do it. |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
9
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Xiaodown wrote:Hopelesshobo wrote: The nice thing about that skill then is if you used a recon ship, you could get the cyno down to 2.5 minutes due to the recon ships hull bonus, which is deserved considering you can use a noob ship to light a cyno instead of a 150 mil isk ship.
Yeah, but no one does that. Because there's not a recon ship in the game that could stand up against a cheap brutix or anything that can tank station guns in low sec, and you can buy roughly 250 kestrels for the cost of one rapier. 2.5 minutes is still an eternity, and no one is dumb enough to feed recon kills to wanabe pirates.
You are probably right that few people would use recon boats if the timer was 2.5 minutes, 30 seconds for a recon would probably be more realistic. But I still think that implementing a skill to reduce the duration of a cyno wouldn't be a bad idea. |
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monkfish2345
D'reg The Methodical Alliance
89
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Posted - 2013.05.09 15:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:monkfish2345 wrote:Personally i'd be happy in a situation where only cov ops and recons could cyno.
if your really concerned about losing your cyno ship, there is a fairly simple answer...... defend it. Sounds legit. Guaranteed covops/recon kill at most every cyno you see sounds sweet.
why do you presume every cyno would be a lone cov ops or recon?
it would require a change in player mentality and would actually further encourage players to help each other out if they have to put something a little more valuable on the line.
this is an mmo after all. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
15
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
monkfish2345 wrote:encourage players to help each other out
Correct.
Why do you assume someone can't warp snipers in at long range and blap the **** out of a cyno ship that's sitting helpless, before his buddies can do anything about it?
They'd be helping each other out, since this is an MMO, and it might take more than one Tornado to do it efficiently. |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
83
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Theoretically, would it be terribly game-breaking if you could turn a cyno off at will? |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
15
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:Theoretically, would it be terribly game-breaking if you could turn a cyno off at will?
No, because it's exactly the same as simply logging out your throwaway cyno alt now.
I don't necessarily have an issue with changing these mechanics, but some people seem to have the idea that the only folks lighting cynos are nullsec alliances hot dropping others.
They don't consider what's going to happen to that indy jump freighter (Black Frog, etc.) shipping bill once those companies start losing Covops frigs and/or recon ships just to get your junk moved in and out of low/null.
And I hate to say it, but if a large alliance wants to drop a subcap/cap fleet, they're not going to give a damn about paying for a covops frig. So if this sort of idea is angled toward penalising that behavior, it's not really addressing the problem at all, simply making something more expensive/difficult for small groups and single players. (Which again, I don't care about. But you don't solve Problem A by introducing Problem B.) |
Madlof Chev
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
126
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dumb things happening in this thread:
- Talking about limiting cyno ship classes - glhf ever baiting someone into a cyno trap if there are just a couple of ship classes that can light cynos - nobody will engage those classes of ship.
- Whining about 10min timers - either kill your cyno alt or log it off, if you're moving capitals with just one cyno alt it's practically the same as ripping off your fingernails.
Also that dumpass talking about using t2 bs and capitals to light cynos:
a) let's use my ship that i can't move without a cyno to light a cyno for these other ships that can't move without a cyno (what the hell are you smoking)
b) if you use t2 bs to move a cyno you will never, ever light a cyno again. |
Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
84
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Xavier Thorm wrote:Theoretically, would it be terribly game-breaking if you could turn a cyno off at will? No, because it's exactly the same as simply logging out your throwaway cyno alt now. I don't necessarily have an issue with changing these mechanics, but some people seem to have the idea that the only folks lighting cynos are nullsec alliances hot dropping others. They don't consider what's going to happen to that indy jump freighter (Black Frog, etc.) shipping bill once those companies start losing Covops frigs and/or recon ships just to get your junk moved in and out of low/null. And I hate to say it, but if a large alliance wants to drop a subcap/cap fleet, they're not going to give a damn about paying for a covops frig. So if this sort of idea is angled toward penalising that behavior, it's not really addressing the problem at all, simply making something more expensive/difficult for small groups and single players. (Which again, I don't care about. But you don't solve Problem A by introducing Problem B.)
I agree, and my question was kind of rhetorical to see if anyone would challenge that point. I think cynos shouldn't even have a cycle time, they should just be off/on like a cloaking device. Holding you in place when on and not when off. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
16
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:
I agree, and my question was kind of rhetorical to see if anyone would challenge that point. I think cynos shouldn't even have a cycle time, they should just be off/on like a cloaking device. Holding you in place when on and not when off.
Exactly.
I could see possibly giving it a target lock and reactivation cooldown like many cloaks use, maybe even a dock/jump timer, to make it a bit risky to bait people with it. But the whole 10 minute lockdown smacks of someone's 'great idea' from the before time, in the long long ago, when there was some kind of assumption that single players with no alts handy would want to burn out the timer and then take their combat ready ship right into the fight with their recently dropped buddies. |
back labackslack chew
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.05.10 03:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Alright lets look at this to solve your problem, rather than have you complain. The fastest way to get rid of your cyno once your JF, carrier, dread,etc is though it. Well it take 2 minutes to self destruct and for a cynic shot including hull modules and fuel is 2 m tops that will solve your problem.
Your other solution is use a more tanky ship which I'll solve your,pirate problem, to a degrees(I would still shoot you if I can take the station guns), I have a prophecy with over 300k ehp and I also fly recons which have half the cynic time down to 300seconds and they aren't defenceless.
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
2736
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Posted - 2013.05.10 06:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
Madlof Chev wrote:Dumb things happening in this thread:
- Talking about limiting cyno ship classes - glhf ever baiting someone into a cyno trap if there are just a couple of ship classes that can light cynos - nobody will engage those classes of ship.
- Whining about 10min timers - either kill your cyno alt or log it off, if you're moving capitals with just one cyno alt it's practically the same as ripping off your fingernails.
Also that dumpass talking about using t2 bs and capitals to light cynos:
a) let's use my ship that i can't move without a cyno to light a cyno for these other ships that can't move without a cyno (what the hell are you smoking)
b) if you use t2 bs to move a cyno you will never, ever light a cyno again.
1) nobody needs cyno traps, good riddance
2) that disposable nature of the throwaway alts is exactly what is broken
a) that's precisely my point you ******
b) oh such a shame, what will people do then
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Carniflex
StarHunt Intrepid Crossing
80
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Posted - 2013.05.10 10:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
I would have to correct - its not the T1 frigs anymore that are mostly used - its the noob frigs as they can now easily fit a cyno and hold enough ozone for it. Even with very low cyno skill 2x cargo expander I are sufficient.
Take the cynos as consumables. You need one for each jump - if it survives, great! if not - well just cost of doing business. I dont know many people who do cynos on their "main" - most people I know who use cynos have sub 900k SP cyno alts. Dont need that many skills for it. electronics 5, cyno gen 4, if its old alt it probably has some or all race frigs to lev 2 or 3 as well. Some even have Amarr Industrial 1 and cloaking 1 squeezed in there for Bestower.
I am not opposed to the idea of halving the cyno timers. Might make it more viable to do them on your main in shiny ship instead of using throwaway alt.
Also
Madlof Chev wrote: b) if you use t2 bs to move a cyno you will never, ever light a cyno again.
Black Ops are nice for sending your falcon alt to some nearby cyno beacon at POS to then hop few jumps to the needed destination and make cyno there. Although that is ofc relatively uncommon practice, falcon is such a wasteful ship to do cyno in any remotely hostile enviroment. Unless you are doing back ops cyno that is ;) Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
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