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Barton Fink
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Posted - 2005.10.06 21:26:00 -
[1]
I was going to train for a Wolf, but looking over its stats more clearly.. You get 2 medslots, with EM/Thermal resist bonuses? Is that supposed to be shield tanked or what? If you armor tank it you're not that much better off than a Rifter, especially against Hybrid/Missile (kenetic) damage.
So is a Wolf useful/useless? Should I go for something else instead?
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upsideup
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Posted - 2005.10.06 21:29:00 -
[2]
Wolf is not best off tanked, imo. Best use for it that I know of is just to deal huge amounts of damage, with a damage mod/afterburner setup or something like that. One of the concepts behind it may have been to drop hardeners and use the natural em/thermal bonuses with a sheild booster so that you could use the low slots for whatever you wanted. That doesn't work so well because 2 midslots is just enough for an ab/scrambler, without the web.
The wolf probably has the highest damage burst of any assault frig, maybe any frig for that matter, so its use is not as a tank. A light tank, if at all.
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BlueSmok
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Posted - 2005.10.06 21:30:00 -
[3]
Try this setup, kills angels dead :) 4x280 II's High (Fusion/Plasma Ammo) AB II, CAP recharger Mid Small armor rep II, Explosion armor hardner, Kinetic hardner, Micropower core.. -------------=============------------- *** If you're not flying with Hippies, you're not having FUN!! ***
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Forsch
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Posted - 2005.10.06 21:35:00 -
[4]
The EM/Thermal resists are against their racial enemies, the Amarr. I can tell you I have a hell of a time fighting wolves and jaguars. Very hard to do decent damage to them with lasers.
The Auctoritan Syndicate Defenders of the Empire - Curatores Veritatis Alliance |
Damien Vox
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Posted - 2005.10.07 03:24:00 -
[5]
Yes, minmatar get bad resistances in my opinion when it comes to AF's. Every other race (last check) got three resistances, we got two. We also got the worst PG and CPU in reference to ships as well. It could be worse...we could have gotten one resistance right?
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Tomias Itaraou
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Posted - 2005.10.07 03:25:00 -
[6]
You could have gotten the Hawk or Vengaence.
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Linavin
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Posted - 2005.10.07 03:38:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Damien Vox Yes, minmatar get bad resistances in my opinion when it comes to AF's. Every other race (last check) got three resistances, we got two. We also got the worst PG and CPU in reference to ships as well. It could be worse...we could have gotten one resistance right?
Umm 1. You guys got 2 resists like everyone else. No race got 3. 2. You have undoubtedly the best shield tanking resistances, Namely because you got a 75% resist to cover the em hole as well a great thermal resist. Saying that the minmatar dont have good resistances is like saying amarr dosen't have good ones.
Quote: OMG. Dev's that talk to their subscribers? Up with Eve down with WoW!
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BlackHawk177
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Posted - 2005.10.07 03:41:00 -
[8]
There's a lot of times I'll take a Hawk over a Jaguar, and I love my Jaguar.
Can we shoot them yet? |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.10.07 03:41:00 -
[9]
EM and Thermal, especially on the shield, are awesome to have. ------
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.10.07 03:44:00 -
[10]
"Yes, minmatar get bad resistances in my opinion when it comes to AF's. Every other race (last check) got three resistances, we got two."
Each race gets one 'primary' resistance bonus, and one 'secondary'
* Caldari get thermal+kinetic (leaves bad EM hole in shield and explosive hole in armour)
* Minmatar get EM+thermal (leaves armour with explosive+kinetic holes, but nice resistances of shield across the board with 40% kinetic resistance being somewhat weaker spot)
* Gallente get kinetic+thermal (similar to Caldari)
* Amarr get explosive+kinetic (EM and thermal holes in the shield, weaker spot in armour is 35% thermal resistance)
so no, Minmatar aren't really any worse off than any other race ^^;;
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Damien Vox
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Posted - 2005.10.07 03:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Linavin
Originally by: Damien Vox Yes, minmatar get bad resistances in my opinion when it comes to AF's. Every other race (last check) got three resistances, we got two. We also got the worst PG and CPU in reference to ships as well. It could be worse...we could have gotten one resistance right?
Umm 1. You guys got 2 resists like everyone else. No race got 3. 2. You have undoubtedly the best shield tanking resistances, Namely because you got a 75% resist to cover the em hole as well a great thermal resist. Saying that the minmatar dont have good resistances is like saying amarr dosen't have good ones.
See Caldari AF's: (Base Stats)
Armor: EM 60% EXP: 10% KIN: 62.5% THERM: 86.25% Shield: EM: 0 EXP: 60% KIN:70% THERM: 80% (two resistance boosts armor and shield off Merlin)
Amarr AF's:
Armor: EM 60%, EXP 80%, KIN 62.5%, THERM 25% Shield: EM 0, EXP 90%, KIN 70%, THERM 20% (three boosted resistances armor and shield Punisher)
Gallente AF's:
Armor: EM 60%, EXP 10%, KIN, 83.75%, THERM 67.5% Shield: EM 0, EXP 60%, KIN 85%, THERM 60% (two boosted resistances armor and shield from Incursus)
Minmatar AF's:
Armor: EM 92.5%, EXP 10%, KIN 25%, THERM 67.5% Shield: EM 75%, EXP 60%, KIN 40%, THERM 60% (two boosted resistances armora nd shield from Rifter)
So the Amarr are the only ones with three boosted reistanes, fair enough, but your statement about having great EM and Therm resistances has one thing wrong with it: how exactly do you compare a race that can tank its AF's and do damage to one that can't tank its AF's due to serious grid restrictions and still fit a decent set-up?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.10.07 03:58:00 -
[12]
"Amarr AF's:
Armor: EM 60%, EXP 80%, KIN 62.5%, THERM 25% Shield: EM 0, EXP 90%, KIN 70%, THERM 20% (three boosted resistances armor and shield Punisher)
(..)
So the Amarr are the only ones with three boosted reistanes"
No, they arent.
Amarr AF has: 0/90/70/20 shield, 60/80/62.5/35 armour Punisher has: 0/60/40/20 shield, 60/20/25/35 armour
note, it's the same two resistances that receive the boost -- explosive and kinetic. Even the ship description says they receive two resistance boosts, for that matter.
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Damien Vox
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Posted - 2005.10.07 04:03:00 -
[13]
My fault then, I misread the thermal bonus.
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Zelakil
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Posted - 2005.10.07 04:28:00 -
[14]
IMOP the WOlf is an awsome ship. I can solo Angel Extravaganza in it. Here's my setup:
High: 4 X 200mm AutocannonII 1 X "Ghoul" energy siphon Med: Named webber Nmed AB Low: ~varies somewhat depending on the rat 1 X Armor rep II 1 X 200mm Steel Plates II 1 X Shield power realy (or is it cap power relay) - increase cap recharge 1 X damage mod
I use this in a lot of level 3 missions. The only difficulty I have is taking two angel webbers and several other rats at the same time. This is due to the short range of the AC's. I can tank almost any damage as long as I get close enough to run the NOS, hence the problem with Archangel Webbifiers. (I can now take them on pretty well with some added skill poimts)
I like using the AF as apposed to my Apoc in a lot of missions due to the fact it is faster to get loot and rips frigs apart.
I love this ship.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2005.10.07 05:07:00 -
[15]
My alt is gonna train for a Wolf as soon as she can, as you can't beat them for doing missions and complexes against Bloods and Sanshas.
It all depends on what you want to face, and how you want to face it. We both can currently fly Amarr T2 ships, and they're useless against an enemy who uses lasers as their primary weapon.
It all depends on what you face. Except for Gal/Cal who get the same bonuses, so if you're facing the same type, or their enemy, you kind of negate each other's uses. But so would a Min taking on an Amarr, or vice versa.
But it makes sense from an RP standpoint, and that's what's most important.
Sig modified due to xenophobic comments -Iacon
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R31D
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Posted - 2005.10.07 06:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Linavin
Originally by: Damien Vox Yes, minmatar get bad resistances in my opinion when it comes to AF's. Every other race (last check) got three resistances, we got two. We also got the worst PG and CPU in reference to ships as well. It could be worse...we could have gotten one resistance right?
Umm 1. You guys got 2 resists like everyone else. No race got 3. 2. You have undoubtedly the best shield tanking resistances, Namely because you got a 75% resist to cover the em hole as well a great thermal resist. Saying that the minmatar dont have good resistances is like saying amarr dosen't have good ones.
Umm
Ever tried to shieldtank a Minmatar AF...
Free bumpage for all |
Tyrail
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Posted - 2005.10.07 07:01:00 -
[17]
This is really depressing to read, always someone has something to cry about.
Minmatar AF's are no worse than any other, you have racial resistances and some racial charachteristics. The wolf for instance is besides the enyo my favorite AF. Being able to deal so much damage, tackle and what not makes it a good ship. Don't look for your AF to tank a fleet, it wasn't what it was meant to do.
True that there are better assault ships than the minmatar ones, that doesn't, however, make them worse.
A wolf is definitely usefull Barton Fink, it's a great little ship in many ways. Play around with your setup and you will see, just dont expect your ship to be able to perform equally well in all situations against all ships.
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Dave Toz
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Posted - 2005.10.07 07:45:00 -
[18]
I love the Wolf, I wouldnt say it recieved less resistances than other AFs, it is a little strange in that the slot layout screams armour tank at you while the resistences would favour shield tanking. As most ppl have pointed out, its just the anti amarr resistances, if you wanna shield tank get a Jaguar and shove a Gistii A Type on it, wolf should just be an insane damage dealer, although having said that i love nothing more than NPCing BS in 0.0 (Guristas) in my wolf. awesome ship.
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.10.07 08:51:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Khaldorn Murino on 07/10/2005 08:51:31 They got great shiled bonuses, but Wolf cant shield tank and Jag has a hard time with it simply because of the slot layout.
Oh and the PG and CPU, but thats across all minmatar ships.
EDIT: Oh and the cap recharge rate.
But hell, our ships are sexeh :) -
Just a simple warrior.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.10.07 08:57:00 -
[20]
Minmatar got the best bonus resistances for shield tanking, its just that the number of minnie ships that can really pull off a shield tank is extremely small (Vagabond is the only one I feel does really well at it heh, though a couple others sc*****up to ok) . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.10.07 09:05:00 -
[21]
weird == good -- Thread Killer (attempting to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1) <END TRANSMISSION> |
Evisicator
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Posted - 2005.10.07 21:40:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tyrail
True that there are better assault ships than the minmatar ones, that doesn't, however, make them worse.
All I want to know is how something can better better than something else, but at the same time that something else isn't worse. If player A is better than player B, then player B is worse than player A. See how that works.
Anyways I love my wolf and I can even fit t2 guns yet. I have been running lvl 3 missions in it against angels of all things, the bane of the ship as angels do explosive dmg etc.
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2005.10.07 21:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jim Raynor EM and Thermal, especially on the shield, are awesome to have.
yes your sig is ***
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Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2005.10.07 22:50:00 -
[24]
for minmatar assaults you just need the right gear and the right skills (Can you say gisti ) ------------------------------------------ The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr. |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.10.07 23:44:00 -
[25]
Originally by: R31D
Originally by: Linavin
Originally by: Damien Vox Yes, minmatar get bad resistances in my opinion when it comes to AF's. Every other race (last check) got three resistances, we got two. We also got the worst PG and CPU in reference to ships as well. It could be worse...we could have gotten one resistance right?
Umm 1. You guys got 2 resists like everyone else. No race got 3. 2. You have undoubtedly the best shield tanking resistances, Namely because you got a 75% resist to cover the em hole as well a great thermal resist. Saying that the minmatar dont have good resistances is like saying amarr dosen't have good ones.
Umm
Ever tried to shieldtank a Minmatar AF...
well the jag can do it... somehow -------------------
Celestial Horizon: we go zerg on you |
Nifel
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Posted - 2005.10.08 02:01:00 -
[26]
The jag doesn't have the cap. Yes... nice shield resists, but either the slot layout completely sucks donkey or the cap won't hold up for active shield tanking.
You can passive tank the jaguar which semi-works but shield extenders is a no no since they take up valuable med slots for pvp. The Wolf can't shield tank jack, the Muninn screams ARMOR TANK ME!!! with its' slot layout but the nice resists are on the shields. The only saving grace is the Vagabond as you can fit 2 large shield extenders t2 and still have 2 slots over for mwd and a warp scrambler. Or a medium shield booster t2 and 1 large shield extender t2 which also works nice.
The biggest problem is that you can't even passive shield tank without having to put shield extenders in the meds. Med slots you NEED for other modules.
The suggested changes to shield extenders with a sig radius penalty attached to them will probably screw over the vagabond tank approach though.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN10) Sarraqa |
Dr Happy
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Posted - 2005.10.08 04:37:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Barton Fink I was going to train for a Wolf, but looking over its stats more clearly.. You get 2 medslots, with EM/Thermal resist bonuses? Is that supposed to be shield tanked or what? If you armor tank it you're not that much better off than a Rifter, especially against Hybrid/Missile (kenetic) damage.
So is a Wolf useful/useless? Should I go for something else instead?
OMG you poeple?! hes not complaining hes just asking what to do with 2 bit slot with a shield tank resists
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