Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 .. 49 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
355
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 21:32:00 -
[1201] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:If you fit same number of damage mods and use rest to tank Typhoon pass ahead EHP wise. Just ran some tests on this.
- The Typhoon out-damages the Tempest by around 100dps, not accounting for drones.
- When both are armour buffered with 2 damage mods in the lows, the Typhoon beats the Tempest by around 10k EHP.
- When the Tempest is shield tanked and the Typhoon armour tanked both with 2 damage mods then EHP is equal, agility is equal, although speed of the Tempest is greater, but signature rockets 130 above the Typhoons.
- If both are shield tanked then again a reverse of the armour tanking scenario, the Tempest beats the Typhoon by 10k EHP.
Looking at this information I reckon the way to go with the Tempest is either armour active tanked, as you aren't gaining much benefit at all over the Typhoon by armour buffer tanking, or shield buffer tanked if you really want the extra speed shield tanking can give you.
I don't have time to do an active tanking comparison, but based purely upon buffer tanks, both ships seem equal. Where as the Tempest should be better according to CCP Rise to make up for it doing around 100 less dps not accounting the drones.
The two roles I'm thinking of right now for the Tempest will be either an active armour tank, with two heavy neuts perhaps coming in useful, plus the Tempest has a higher cap recharge which gives it an added benefit. Second role could be a nano shield fit Tempest, faster on speed than the Typhoons armour fit, but again lower on the dps, plus the Typhoons missiles are better suited to the nano style of fighting. Much more tests are needed really to confirm any useful role though.
EDIT - also Rise, please give the Tempest some extra PG and CPU, it is difficult to fit this thing, and impossible if you want to use T2 1400mm artillery unless you fit nothing in the high utility slots. CPU is lacking for a close range Autocannon fit with Torpedos, but the PG is the biggest problem for fitting any decent artillery ship. Will only be able to use 1200mm II at best if the PG is not addressed. |
Krell Kroenen
Miners In Possession
165
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 21:58:00 -
[1202] - Quote
I think I am just going to have to accept the fact that the Tempest will be left subpar and just hope it get's reviewed down the road, hopefully sooner rather than later. Tis a shame really since I rather like the new model. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
388
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 22:00:00 -
[1203] - Quote
Krell Kroenen wrote:I think I am just going to have to accept the fact that the Tempest will be left subpar and just hope it get's reviewed down the road, hopefully sooner rather than later. Tis a shame really since I rather like the new model. I dont know how minmatar players will survive this 1 "subpar" ship from the 30 :( ccp realy hates minmatar |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
268
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 22:14:00 -
[1204] - Quote
There CCP there! Proof absolute and above doubt. Even Naomi Knight said its a subpar minamtar ship. The most iconocrastic minmatar hates that exagerates 1 mmillion times all the capabilities ofminmatar ship.
If that person says its subpar. its decided..
CCP RISe, CCP Fozzie, you failed , and failed pretty hard. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
268
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 22:16:00 -
[1205] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:If you fit same number of damage mods and use rest to tank Typhoon pass ahead EHP wise. Just ran some tests on this.
- The Typhoon out-damages the Tempest by around 100dps, not accounting for drones.
- When both are armour buffered with 2 damage mods in the lows, the Typhoon beats the Tempest by around 10k EHP.
- When the Tempest is shield tanked and the Typhoon armour tanked both with 2 damage mods then EHP is equal, agility is equal, although speed of the Tempest is greater, but signature rockets 130 above the Typhoons.
- If both are shield tanked then again a reverse of the armour tanking scenario, the Tempest beats the Typhoon by 10k EHP.
Looking at this information I reckon the way to go with the Tempest is either armour active tanked, as you aren't gaining much benefit at all over the Typhoon by armour buffer tanking, or shield buffer tanked if you really want the extra speed shield tanking can give you. I don't have time to do an active tanking comparison, but based purely upon buffer tanks, both ships seem equal. Where as the Tempest should be better according to CCP Rise to make up for it doing around 100 less dps not accounting the drones. The two roles I'm thinking of right now for the Tempest will be either an active armour tank, with two heavy neuts perhaps coming in useful, plus the Tempest has a higher cap recharge which gives it an added benefit. Second role could be a nano shield fit Tempest, faster on speed than the Typhoons armour fit, but again lower on the dps, plus the Typhoons missiles are better suited to the nano style of fighting. Much more tests are needed really to confirm any useful role though. EDIT - also Rise, please give the Tempest some extra PG and CPU, it is difficult to fit this thing, and impossible if you want to use T2 1400mm artillery unless you fit nothing in the high utility slots. CPU is lacking for a close range Autocannon fit with Torpedos, but the PG is the biggest problem for fitting any decent artillery ship. Will only be able to use 1200mm II at best if the PG is not addressed.
Active armro tank with 2 heavy neuts doe snot compute. You will end up without cap to run either neuts of repairers before you can neutralize a buffer tanked Mega or typhoon... or basically any ship.
The temepst is handas down the weakest of all battleship and the one least useful. Thes changes will help in NOTHING.
CCP just remove the tempest from the game then.
|
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
355
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 22:20:00 -
[1206] - Quote
Just messing around on EFT, you have to downgrade the guns to really fit anything worthwhile due to PG restrictions. But a close range nuet ship could work quite nicely. The Armageddons bonus to range doesn't really add much when you fighting this close. Not sure if the dual prop would be necessary on this, but it could work. Tanks 500dps at max reps, and puts out around 800dps not including drones. I reckon active tanking it is definitely going to be the way to go. The only other thing I can think off is long range shield fit but would have to use 1200mms and is outclassed by the Tornado in every area except EHP.
[Tempest, Tempest] Damage Control II Large Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
100MN Microwarpdrive II 10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
|
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
268
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 22:26:00 -
[1207] - Quote
OK I will add a bit more to explain WHY CCP is FAILING onthis balance.
THey THINK a few hundred base HP are worth a LOT on these ships. Its is NOT!!
Put that in your head Rise. 1K HP is NOTHING when your ship has 1 or even 2 less low slots to fit tank than its competitors. A SINGLE plate overdo that SLIGHT HP advantage the temepst have over the megatron by 3 FOLD!!!!
Stick that inside your heads. A few hundred hit poitns do not pay for 1 slot! Do not Pay for having effectively 1 bonus !!! Yes tempest have 1 BONUS ONLY! because the damm hyperion have same number of turrets MORE DRONEs and with a SINGLE bonus if coudl deal way more DPS than the tempest EVEN if the hyperion bonus were for the same projectile guns.
Take your heads out of the SAND! A tempest would be still INFERIOR to MEgatron and Hyperion if It had 7.5% Ros and 5% damage. It would be Still inferior i it has 7.5% rof and 7.5% damage, because it has HORRIBLE Slots, HORRIBLE drone bay!!
AND Its one of the battleships that ALIGNS THE SLOWEST!!!
DAmm I am REALLY angry today tiwht this imrpessive demonstration of nonsense. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
268
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 22:29:00 -
[1208] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Just messing around on EFT, you have to downgrade the guns to really fit anything worthwhile due to PG restrictions. But a close range nuet ship could work quite nicely. The Armageddons bonus to range doesn't really add much when you fighting this close. Not sure if the dual prop would be necessary on this, but it could work. Tanks 500dps at max reps, and puts out around 800dps not including drones. I reckon active tanking it is definitely going to be the way to go. The only other thing I can think off is long range shield fit but would have to use 1200mms and is outclassed by the Tornado in every area except EHP.
[Tempest, Tempest] Damage Control II Large Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
100MN Microwarpdrive II 10MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
I can Kill 3 of these with 2 typhoons or megathrons.
|
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
355
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 22:33:00 -
[1209] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:I can Kill 3 of these with 2 typhoons or megathrons. Post the fits up and lets EFT warrior them then. :) It is a bit annoying that you have to downgrade the guns on every Tempest fit. I guess it doesn't matter if Tempest puts out more dps though. I wish Rise would just increase the damage bonuses at least and then we would have something really interesting to work with. |
|
CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
902
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 22:53:00 -
[1210] - Quote
Quote:The Typhoon out-damages the Tempest by around 100dps, not accounting for drones.
When both are armour buffered with 2 damage mods in the lows, the Typhoon beats the Tempest by around 10k EHP.
When the Tempest is shield tanked and the Typhoon armour tanked both with 2 damage mods then EHP is equal, agility is equal, although speed of the Tempest is greater, but signature rockets 130 above the Typhoons.
If both are shield tanked then again a reverse of the armour tanking scenario, the Tempest beats the Typhoon by 10k EHP.
To me, this all seems really solid.
Most of the areas where the Typhoon is beating the Tempest, its either because of having the extra low instead of the utility high - and in many situations the utility high will have more value. OR its winning in raw dps with missiles, which is very difficult to evaluate because its so dependent on piloting style and situation (for instance missiles probably better if you're hard tackled by cruisers, but 800mm ACs much better if you're kiting in a straight line.
I really want both of these ships to be fun, so I promise we will watch them after release and if there's big problems we will look at making changes to fix them.
I think part of the problem is that both of these ships (the Tempest more than the Typhoon even) cater to a play style that isn't as common as large scale fleets or PVE. I'm not sure its possible to expand the Tempest into more large scale viability without making it too strong in other areas.
|
|
|
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
355
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 23:05:00 -
[1211] - Quote
I think just a slight damage increase would help the Tempest out more than anything right now. It is quite a challenge to fit and make it work, which is good in a way. Although with its current damage output it feels as though you are not being rewarded for it.
Also the one difference when the Typhoon was armour tanked and the Tempest shield tanked, the Typhoon still has loads of mid slots to play with where as the Tempest has none, power diags in the lows were required to bring the EHP to Typhoon EHP levels, without them it was 10K lower.
I think it will be used a lot like the hurricane, shield and artillery when mids are not heavily required, and active armour tanked for closer range fittings. It is fun to mess around with and looks fun to fly, but right now I feel like there isn't enough reward in terms of performance for using it. Will test it out more though when odyssey is released before making any final judgments. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
555
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 23:08:00 -
[1212] - Quote
What is the Tempests role? What is it designed to do better than any ship or size class exactly? Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
269
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 23:11:00 -
[1213] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:The Typhoon out-damages the Tempest by around 100dps, not accounting for drones.
When both are armour buffered with 2 damage mods in the lows, the Typhoon beats the Tempest by around 10k EHP.
When the Tempest is shield tanked and the Typhoon armour tanked both with 2 damage mods then EHP is equal, agility is equal, although speed of the Tempest is greater, but signature rockets 130 above the Typhoons.
If both are shield tanked then again a reverse of the armour tanking scenario, the Tempest beats the Typhoon by 10k EHP.
To me, this all seems really solid. Most of the areas where the Typhoon is beating the Tempest, its either because of having the extra low instead of the utility high - and in many situations the utility high will have more value. OR its winning in raw dps with missiles, which is very difficult to evaluate because its so dependent on piloting style and situation (for instance missiles probably better if you're hard tackled by cruisers, but 800mm ACs much better if you're kiting in a straight line. I really want both of these ships to be fun, so I promise we will watch them after release and if there's big problems we will look at making changes to fix them. I think part of the problem is that both of these ships (the Tempest more than the Typhoon even) cater to a play style that isn't as common as large scale fleets or PVE. I'm not sure its possible to expand the Tempest into more large scale viability without making it too strong in other areas.
Pay attention to what corp and alliance I am . You shoudl remember us from fanfest when CCP announced us as 1st alliance in damage during wars. We are Almsot the definition of small scale PVP. And The tempest is HORRIBLE for us, the megatron, hyperion, armageddon, dominix are all better for us.
No tempest is not good for solo PVP!!!
Tempest is not good at anything!! Except looking cool. |
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
81
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 23:31:00 -
[1214] - Quote
Hi Rise,
I don't have much time to type this since I'm on break at work, so sadly its not going to be very in-depth.
Anyway, the major problem with the tempest changes is that they don't go far enough. If you've got a weak tank and low or average DPS, a small speed increase isn't going to help much. To be survivable, you either need to be very fast, do a LOT of damage, or both.
In an armor config, the tempest has to choose between a decent 5-slot tank and very low DPS due to only having one gyro (and downgraded guns if active tanking) or average damage for a BS but a poor tank with only 4slots. Either of these situations would result in a poor ship unless it had something else going for it such as extreme speed and the agility to use it. Look at the stabbed for an example of bow this works successfully.
The main point is, without a significant speed increase, damage increase, or both, the tempest won't be competitive. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
555
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 23:38:00 -
[1215] - Quote
The stabber uses OVERSIZED plates or extenders to supplement EHP that is on average, high for ships with that utility or dps. Without XL extenders or 3600mm plates, the chances of a faster tempest doing anything but terrible impression of mach are remote.
This all gets very depressing when you remember that the Tempest is now set to double in price too. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
270
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 23:46:00 -
[1216] - Quote
One thing I still want to know is why the tempest is stuck with so small drone bay when its already VERY low dps hull from its slot layout.
When you need a battleshipo you need DPS. If you need somethign else you will bring something else!
I really think CCP Rise is stuck in a fantasy concept of where the tempest could be a good choice of a ship. Since the NOS nerf temepst is NOT a good ship! |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
271
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 00:43:00 -
[1217] - Quote
Its so frustrating. I have been trying to get attention to the FAILURE that the tempest is sicne the NOS nerf. All time peopel agree with that but always CCP simply ignoresit. As if there was some magical rule fixating tempest to the horrible slot layout and inneficient 1 ship bonus only fakely split in 2 (YEs i can say tthat openly now since the Hyperion have the 10% damage per level).
So frustratign that I will have to wait more years until CCPO cycles again their balancing experts, until maybe someday One will be able to understand the obvious. |
Kane Fenris
NWP
19
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 00:51:00 -
[1218] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote: EDIT - also Rise, please give the Tempest some extra PG and CPU, it is difficult to fit this thing, and impossible if you want to use T2 1400mm artillery unless you fit nothing in the high utility slots. CPU is lacking for a close range Autocannon fit with Torpedos, but the PG is the biggest problem for fitting any decent artillery ship. Will only be able to use 1200mm II at best if the PG is not addressed.
i think its not supposed to fit 1400 II's and i dont want it to be able cause a.) the TFI is supposed to (although i dont like that either) b.) we had to pay for it with a nerf somewhere else
Kagura Nikon wrote:There CCP there! Proof absolute and above doubt. Even Naomi Knight said its a subpar minamtar ship. The most iconocrastic minmatar hates that exagerates 1 mmillion times all the capabilities ofminmatar ship.
If that person says its subpar. its decided..
CCP RISe, CCP Fozzie, you failed , and failed pretty hard. good point lol
Kagura Nikon wrote: Pay attention to what corp and alliance I am . You shoudl remember us from fanfest when CCP announced us as 1st alliance in damage during wars. We are Almsot the definition of small scale PVP. And The tempest is HORRIBLE for us, the megatron, hyperion, armageddon, dominix are all better for us.
so get your mates here and let tem post maybe CCP starts to listen
CCP Rise wrote: I think part of the problem is that both of these ships (the Tempest more than the Typhoon even) cater to a play style that isn't as common as large scale fleets or PVE. I'm not sure its possible to expand the Tempest into more large scale viability without making it too strong in other areas.
you know how to fly ships i give you that you ve prove that multiple times and i have seen all you roams you put on youtube, and this is the reason i cant understand why you think that a ship which needs to dictate range so badly as a ac tempest has such a high mass ans such a bad applied dmg at its prefered fitting range aka as close at longpoint as possible. cause of the higher mass you need to keep so close that one cant escape your OH longpoint before you react and align to make use of your superior speed (which will come later cause your mwd needs longer to accelerate the ship). all this will froce you into closer combat where nearly every cc-weapon system outdamages your acs (and you may even get tracking problems esp with te nerf). (this thought is applied to fights where you actually need a longpoint not to those where your 3+ to one outnumbered and your enemys die cause they think they outmatch you and get careless...)
as a huge fan of your solo/smal gang pvp plz explain to me what im overlooking cause i start to loose faith in you |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
277
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 02:07:00 -
[1219] - Quote
Well if tempest is not made to fit 1400mm then what is? The maelstrom did not existed for a long time and the tempest was the only ship that coudl use 1400mm.
But what i want is a good AC boat. |
To mare
Advanced Technology
192
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 05:34:00 -
[1220] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: To me, this all seems really solid.
Most of the areas where the Typhoon is beating the Tempest, its either because of having the extra low instead of the utility high - and in many situations the utility high will have more value. OR its winning in raw dps with missiles, which is very difficult to evaluate because its so dependent on piloting style and situation (for instance missiles probably better if you're hard tackled by cruisers, but 800mm ACs much better if you're kiting in a straight line.
I really want both of these ships to be fun, so I promise we will watch them after release and if there's big problems we will look at making changes to fix them.
I think part of the problem is that both of these ships (the Tempest more than the Typhoon even) cater to a play style that isn't as common as large scale fleets or PVE. I'm not sure its possible to expand the Tempest into more large scale viability without making it too strong in other areas.
so now we know for sure the tempest wont be changed anymore? 1st i dont really understand the reason why the tempest MUST be slower than the typhoon, funny thing you are lowering the mass on the phoon even more and the pest stay the same 2nd dps and dps projection of the pest is terrible for a BS especially now with nerfed TE 3rd you want the pest and the phoon to be fun at low scale/solo pvp, the phoon will probably be but there is no way the pest will be used over a phoon/mega/hype/geddon 4th mass values on all (not just BS) minmatar ships its a joke |
|
Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
148
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 07:27:00 -
[1221] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: I really want both of these ships to be fun, so I promise we will watch them after release and if there's big problems we will look at making changes to fix them.
Means: "The changes are set now. Thank you for the feedback. Later on we might add 1 pg and some armor but don't count on it."
Thank you for the speed boost. It is not the direction "I" wanted the pest to take, but it was a necessary step towards "Big Cane" vision. I still believe pest needs more love.
|
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
279
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 09:37:00 -
[1222] - Quote
That is just another example why CCP shoudl hite people good in MATH, not in playing the game only to balance the ships.
Anyone reasoanble in math can see how inferior the tempest is to its peers.
I still am waiting WHAT the tempes thave that pays off on :
Hyperion: 10% DAMAGE bonus on 6 turrets .. single bonus agiasn tempest need of 2 bonuses to match Hyperions - 125 drone bay vs 75 .. ok its the DRONE race.. but then wy Hyperion- More agile.. yes more agile then the large hurricane that you spoke off. FAIL!!! Hyperion 7.5% active repair bonus vs tempest NO bonuys.. because it spent all its bonuses to match a single hyperion bonus Hyperion great slow layout.. tempest worst slot layout in battleships.
How in heell anyone can not see how INCREDBLY unbalanced that is?
The range advantage oF AC is gone sicne the Blasters revamp. The AC are only better after ranges they are doing under half their dps. In other words, ranges where you would have been better flying somethign entirely different from the start. That measn FAIL.
Just want a proper reponse devoid od delusions, why in hell would ANYONE ever want to fly a tempest over another battleship? That situation does nto exist! The others battleships plus the attack BCstoel all spaec from my most beloved ship, the giant pirate ship should jut be removed from the game :( |
Garresh
Opposite of Low
192
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 09:44:00 -
[1223] - Quote
Seriously though, what role is left for the tempest? Typhoon takes the aggressive in your face powerhouse role, and also packs a great deal of utility. Mael is the definition of slow, tanky, and great alpha, which makes it the best mission ship and fleet ship. And the tornado wins in the fast high damage department which completely outclassses the Tempest for that role.
Tweaking numbers back and forth isn't really cutting it, and I honestly can't blame Rise for this one. The meta has changed, and Tempest no longer has a place.
So if we want to fix it, we need to figure out what is left. What could the tempest possibly do that would be different?
And now to throw out some incredibly stupid ideas which will probably not solve anything:
Bad Idea #1:Lower it's damage, buff it's agility, speed, AND it's tank. Make it like a battleship version of many of the low tier "outlast the opponent" minmatar ships like current meta Rifter, Breacher, or ASB Cyclone. Terrible ******* idea, but at least it would stick out. Would still prolly be useless though.
Bad Idea #2: Make it an ewar ship, with a bonus to web range, and a big agility buff. Turn it into some battleship hellspawn of the Rapier and the Vagabond.
Bad Idea #2a: OR, give it a velocity/agility bonus like the old stabber or vigil. Because why the hell not.
Bad Idea #3: In trying to make it the "fast" minmatar battleship, give it some kind of bonus that makes MWD work while scrammed(but still cannot warp). This one is the worst lolol.
Bad Idea #4: Give it like a 7.5% tracking bonus per level, and a MUCH larger drone bay. Ditch one of the damage bonuses but compensate for it in drone bay. Sort of turn it into a much larger Rupture. Still buff it's agility with this one. Edit: Actually I like this one. That would make it different, and potentially still quite useful.
Bonus Bad Idea: Give it a bonus to laser damage and shield resistances. Do adjust fittings accordingly. Laugh heartily. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
281
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 11:05:00 -
[1224] - Quote
All these ideas have been proesented.
Strange is tempest for a long timehas been the ship without a role and in most dire need of changes. Yet it was changed in nothing basically.
But ships that exceled at their roels and peopel loved like the armageddon and typhoon were revamped completely.
The standards on decisiosn of what to change and how seems extremely awkwards and disconnected from the in server reality. |
Syreniac
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 11:12:00 -
[1225] - Quote
Garresh wrote:Seriously though, what role is left for the tempest? Typhoon takes the aggressive in your face powerhouse role, and also packs a great deal of utility. Mael is the definition of slow, tanky, and great alpha, which makes it the best mission ship and fleet ship. And the tornado wins in the fast high damage department which completely outclassses the Tempest for that role.
Tweaking numbers back and forth isn't really cutting it, and I honestly can't blame Rise for this one. The meta has changed, and Tempest no longer has a place.
So if we want to fix it, we need to figure out what is left. What could the tempest possibly do that would be different
Personally, I'd go for removing the ROF bonus, giving it a falloff bonus and increasing the damage bonus to 10% per level. That would give it effectively 9 turrets of damage and alpha, so compensate by upping its drone bay and bandwidth.
That would give it a niche relative to the other Minmatar battleships - it would be the longest ranged Minmatar battleship, and even give it an edge over the Tornado. It would also show a nice link between the Vargur (which gives a falloff bonus) and give a t1 battleship with falloff bonused ACs that would help people practice for the Machariel. With the TE adjustment, the falloff bonus isn't as powerful as it was.
However, the Typhoon and Maelstrom would still have advantages compared to a Tempest with these bonuses. The Maelstrom would have higher peak DPS (10.666 turrets compared to 9) as well as being more able to shield tank and therefore fit more damage mods () and having generally higher EHP. The Typhoon would use a different weapon system, as well as having better short range damage and damage application.
That's just my 0.02 ISK though. |
Kane Fenris
NWP
20
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 12:01:00 -
[1226] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote: The range advantage oF AC is gone sicne the Blasters revamp. The AC are only better after ranges they are doing under half their dps. In other words, ranges where you would have been better flying somethign entirely different from the start. That measn FAIL.
this is EXACTLY where i see the problem (along with its mass) (esp with te nerf in mind it only gets worse... )
large AC's need rework or ships that use then bonuses to fix it |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
282
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 12:02:00 -
[1227] - Quote
Or just change the 5% damage bonus to another rof bonus. 10% :P :P :P |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
355
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 12:09:00 -
[1228] - Quote
The Tempest still has a role, it is just the roles are not handed to us on a platter as with some of the other ships, and sort of the point of the Tempest is it doesn't have one specific role but can fufill a few different ones much like the hurricane. I can see a few roles quite clearly for it now, but because it's attributes are a little underwhelming, it doesn't particularly perform well.
I don't think we should be focusing on trying to completely redesign the Tempest, but instead work with what is there and find ways in which Rise could perhaps increase its attributes to make it work.
Two roles it can do for a start.
1 - Close range active armour and dual nuets (armaggeddon doesn't overlap too much as it has no gunnery bonus, and its nuet bonues are range bonus which aren't useful for close range)
2 - Long range shield and artillery fit (with cruise missiles it out-damages the Tornado, and has much greater EHP, but currently the benefits of the Tornado perhaps outweigh any small advantage you get from the Tempest)
I'm sure there are a few more roles also which it could be used for once people start playing round with it.
Personally I think combining the damage bonus into a single bonus giving the same dps as before, and then adding another bonus such as tracking or falloff would fix the Tempest and make it far more usable. We need to give some realistic suggestions to CCP Rise though if we are going to get any changes at all. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
282
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 12:12:00 -
[1229] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:The Tempest still has a role, it is just the roles are not handed to us on a platter as with some of the other ships, and sort of the point of the Tempest is it doesn't have one specific role but can fufill a few different ones much like the hurricane. I can see a few roles quite clearly for it now, but because it's attributes are a little underwhelming, it doesn't particularly perform well.
I don't think we should be focusing on trying to completely redesign the Tempest, but instead work with what is there and find ways in which Rise could perhaps increase its attributes to make it work.
Two roles it can do for a start.
1 - Close range active armour and dual nuets (armaggeddon doesn't overlap too much as it has no gunnery bonus, and its nuet bonues are range bonus which aren't useful for close range)
2 - Long range shield and artillery fit (with cruise missiles it out-damages the Tornado, and has much greater EHP, but currently the benefits of the Tornado perhaps outweigh any small advantage you get from the Tempest)
I'm sure there are a few more roles also which it could be used for once people start playing round with it.
Personally I think combining the damage bonus into a single bonus giving the same dps as before, and then adding another bonus such as tracking or falloff would fix the Tempest and make it far more usable. We need to give some realistic suggestions to CCP Rise though if we are going to get any changes at all.
The armageddon Does overlap that. It can do basically almost as much damage as the tempest using torpedoes and drones. That with superior slot layout. Also active tanked and dual neuts is NOT a role, its a FAIL fit because you will cap yourself too fast.
Logn range arti with shield is maelstrom ROLE! THe maesltrom is WAy superior there.
So No there is no realistic situation you would prefer the tempest over other ships. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
355
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 12:36:00 -
[1230] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:The Tempest still has a role, it is just the roles are not handed to us on a platter as with some of the other ships, and sort of the point of the Tempest is it doesn't have one specific role but can fufill a few different ones much like the hurricane. I can see a few roles quite clearly for it now, but because it's attributes are a little underwhelming, it doesn't particularly perform well.
I don't think we should be focusing on trying to completely redesign the Tempest, but instead work with what is there and find ways in which Rise could perhaps increase its attributes to make it work.
Two roles it can do for a start.
1 - Close range active armour and dual nuets (armaggeddon doesn't overlap too much as it has no gunnery bonus, and its nuet bonues are range bonus which aren't useful for close range)
2 - Long range shield and artillery fit (with cruise missiles it out-damages the Tornado, and has much greater EHP, but currently the benefits of the Tornado perhaps outweigh any small advantage you get from the Tempest)
I'm sure there are a few more roles also which it could be used for once people start playing round with it.
Personally I think combining the damage bonus into a single bonus giving the same dps as before, and then adding another bonus such as tracking or falloff would fix the Tempest and make it far more usable. We need to give some realistic suggestions to CCP Rise though if we are going to get any changes at all. The armageddon Does overlap that. It can do basically almost as much damage as the tempest using torpedoes and drones. That with superior slot layout. Also active tanked and dual neuts is NOT a role, its a FAIL fit because you will cap yourself too fast. Logn range arti with shield is maelstrom ROLE! THe maesltrom is WAy superior there. So No there is no realistic situation you would prefer the tempest over other ships.
That is why I'm saying increase its attributes such as dps and damage application so it performs better. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 .. 49 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |