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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
91
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Posted - 2013.04.10 22:59:00 -
[361] - Quote
Sunuva Gunn wrote:Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Typhoon:
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses: +5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo launcher and Large Projectile Turret rate of fire +5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo launcher and Large Projectile Turret damage
Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 5 turrets (+5) , 5 launchers (-1) Fittings: 12500 PWG, 640 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6750 (+250) / 7500 (+1500) / 7500 (+1500) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400 / 1087s / 4.97 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 (-10) / .12 (+0.1) / 103600000 / 17.18s (+1.38) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 (+25) / 250 (+150) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 115 / 7 Sensor strength: 20 Ladar Sensor Strength (+1) Signature radius: 380 (+30)
That's one of the best Typhoon layouts I've seen in this thread yet. I'd even support the loss of another high if it could be made 6H; 6 Turrets, 6 launchers (a total wildcard).
That typhoon is way over the top. Seven double bonused high power hardpoints makes it the highest DPS missile boat in the game, and adding 125 drone bandwidth is just a slap in the face to every other missile boat. That rivals the mach which is something that a normal battleship just should not do.
Remove the 5% damage per level, drop the drone bay size to 125-175 base, and add +15 m3 drone bay per level. That gives it the triple threat that people want. Moving a high power slot to a mid power slot added the flexibility to the typhoon that it needed, along with the base EHP buff.
Schmell wrote:Oh you dont realize yet how powerful explosion velocity bonus is. Its not weaker, it is much much stronger than raven.
The issue isn't which one is stronger, it's that they are way too similar. Other than tanking choice they were functional mirrors of each other in PvP. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
155
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Posted - 2013.04.10 23:01:00 -
[362] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote: That typhoon is way over the top. Seven double bonused high power hardpoints makes it the highest DPS missile boat in the game, and adding 125 drone bandwidth is just a slap in the face to every other missile boat. That rivals the mach which is something that a normal battleship just should not do.
Check out the updated fitting proposed in the previous post. It is much toned down but still retain the minmatar unique flavour.
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Sunuva Gunn
Glowing Goat Black Fence.
4
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Posted - 2013.04.10 23:15:00 -
[363] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote: The torp launchers put out 826 dps at max skills, the unbonused autos would put out an extra 111 dps, then unbonused heavy drones an additional 317.
Looks quite fun to fit and fly, and still maintains a good use for all 3 weapons systems if required. That is pretty cookie cutter though, I'm sure the ship engineers could come up with something much better.
Well... except for the turrets which will likely never get used.
You'll see one and know exactly what damage to expect: Missiles and drones. The tank will be a question but...
I'm still in favor of a 'Swis army' hull. Less high slots, but ones you can fill as you like, mods on missiles and projectiles, a good drone bay and enough mids and lows to choose your tank. The Phoon should be a wildcard. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
155
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Posted - 2013.04.10 23:20:00 -
[364] - Quote
The problem is CCP has pretty much ruled out dual weapon bonuses on the T1 hulls. I know the turrets only put out 111dps there, but you could increase it with gyrostabs I guess.
But the current proposal is to only have one space for a turret, and enless CCP changes their mind and can give the Typhoon a projectile and missile bonus, then the only option for increasing projectile use is either that, or removing another mid slot and making it into a third turret slot.
Also with the proposal above you are getting some variation with the 200m3 drone bay, so quite a lot of options to put in different types of drones which under Rise's current proposal we won't have.
The fact at the moment though is that one weapon system is going to be favoured enless CCP decide to change their policy which I doubt.
Also 111dps is not negligble, it could be just enough to edge the Typhoon ahead when it comes to PVP. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
110
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Posted - 2013.04.10 23:28:00 -
[365] - Quote
What I do not get is why you gusy want so much use a turret just for using, even without any purpose?
Let the turret role for tempest and the mixed role for the faction typhoon.
II personally woudl never fit that turret . I do not even fit turret in current typhoon, because contrary to popular beleif, projectiles are not THE SUEPR AMAZING WEAPOSN OF DOOM, and torpedoes are still far more powerful.
Using missiles was always a secondary minmatar weapon system. Nothign wrong here. It snot like they are giving us a 105 drone bonus per level that woudl be completely out of character. |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
91
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Posted - 2013.04.10 23:31:00 -
[366] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Check out the updated fitting proposed in the previous post. It is much toned down but still retain the minmatar unique flavour.
Yeah, I just saw that double bonused 7 highs and /facepalm. I want the typhoon to be unique (although I think the geddon is going to knock it off as the utiliship), but it needs to be balanced at the same time. Trading a high for a mid added a ton of utility IMO, and the base EHP changes rounded it out nicely.
It's just the conflict over a 6th launcher or a 125/200 drone bay. They can't do both, so they have to decide if they want to make the vocal bittervets happy or finish the mis-matar progression. |
Sunuva Gunn
Glowing Goat Black Fence.
4
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Posted - 2013.04.10 23:31:00 -
[367] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:The problem is CCP has pretty much ruled out dual weapon bonuses on the T1 hulls. I know the turrets only put out 111dps there, but you could increase it with gyrostabs I guess.
But the current proposal is to only have one space for a turret, and enless CCP changes their mind and can give the Typhoon a projectile and missile bonus, then the only option for increasing projectile use is either that, or removing another mid slot and making it into a third turret slot.
Also with the proposal above you are getting some variation with the 200m3 drone bay, so quite a lot of options to put in different types of drones which under Rise's current proposal we won't have.
The fact at the moment though is that one weapon system is going to be favoured enless CCP decide to change their policy which I doubt.
Also 111dps is not negligble, it could be just enough to edge the Typhoon ahead when it comes to PVP.
Theres no point in using gyrostabs when you can just max out on bcs and launchers.... a missile boat, and exactly what we're trying to avoid. I'd rather see the Phoon with its current ROF bonuses than a dull missile boat set. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
155
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Posted - 2013.04.10 23:32:00 -
[368] - Quote
I think the reason people still want the turret to be a meaningful part of a Typhoon fit, is then people would feel the accomplishment of training hard in all 3 weapon systems and getting the benefit of it with the Typhoon.
If we were just going completely for missiles though then I would just remove the turrets completely and put in an extra mid slot instead of the spare high slot we currently have, but then we just make it an armoured raven.
At the moment the 5 turrets Rise has put back on it are neither here nor there as practically you are only going to fit one of them in the spare slot without a launcher hardpoint. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
155
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 23:35:00 -
[369] - Quote
Sunuva Gunn wrote:
Theres no point in using gyrostabs when you can just max out on bcs and launchers.... a missile boat, and exactly what we're trying to avoid. I'd rather see the Phoon with its current ROF bonuses than a dull missile boat set.
Yeah I agree, but was thinking perhaps if you go for a shield fitting in the mids, you could go for three ballistic controls, two drone damage augmentors, and one gyrostab in the lows. |
Sunuva Gunn
Glowing Goat Black Fence.
5
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Posted - 2013.04.10 23:38:00 -
[370] - Quote
It'll be a sad, sad, former shadow of itself if the Typhoon ends up as a missile boat.... with a turret.
Heck, it'd be sadder than it just being a missile boat. |
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
155
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Posted - 2013.04.10 23:40:00 -
[371] - Quote
Sunuva Gunn wrote:It'll be a sad, sad, former shadow of itself if the Typhoon ends up as a missile boat.... with a turret.
Heck, it'd be sadder than it just being a missile boat.
Lol. When you put it like that.... :)
That's basically what we are getting right now, just a lone unbonused turret and 6 missiles.
One part of me thinks just get rid of the lone turret and high utility slot and add another mid instead. But then, that's basically just a Raven. |
Sunuva Gunn
Glowing Goat Black Fence.
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 23:48:00 -
[372] - Quote
As a missile boat, it has a use. Admitedly, one that doesn't fit the Minnie background at all.
As a boat with many launchers and turrets that are of no use, it's just a waste. The turret is pointless. at least people might use the missile boat.
As a Swis army ship (or left as it is) it's unique and useful.
I certainly know that I'd only pilot the last, and I've even maxed all the BS missile skills (except Torpedo spec). |
Alek Row
Silent Step
23
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 23:50:00 -
[373] - Quote
I don't understand why they made the new Republic Fleet Hurricane a copy of the old Hurricane. Is the difference that much that deserved that treatment? It's not original at all... disappointing tbh.
On the Phoon perhaps, if they change the Phoon to a missile ship like they are planning to do, the *next* Typhoon Fleet Issue should really be an improved copy of the Typhoon we have today. The old Typhoon is a ship that deserves it.
And please, please, check Tempest mobility, just a little tiny buff in it...
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
155
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 23:52:00 -
[374] - Quote
Sunuva Gunn wrote:As a missile boat, it has a use. Admitedly, one that doesn't fit the Minnie background at all.
As a boat with many launchers and turrets that are of no use, it's just a waste. The turret is pointless. at least people might use the missile boat.
As a Swis army ship (or left as it is) it's unique and useful.
I certainly know that I'd only pilot the last, and I've even maxed all the BS missile skills (except Torpedo spec).
I would settle for Torps and a large drone bay. Because then at least you get some interesting options by having a large drone bay. If it is simply going to be an armoured Raven though then ill stick to flying the Tempest as my main minmatar BS. having a 200m3+ drone bay would be a good enough compromise for me though to continue using it. |
Sunuva Gunn
Glowing Goat Black Fence.
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 23:55:00 -
[375] - Quote
Alek Row wrote: On the Phoon perhaps, if they change the Phoon to a missile ship like they are planning to do, the *next* Typhoon Fleet Issue should really be an improved copy of the Typhoon we have today. The old Typhoon is a ship that deserves it.
Wouldn't that involve leaving it exactly as it is? |
Alek Row
Silent Step
23
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 00:11:00 -
[376] - Quote
Sunuva Gunn wrote: Wouldn't that involve leaving it exactly as it is? (Edit: The Fleet Phoon already is just a normal Phoon with an extra low and fleet buffs)
Yep, I just hope they don't change it much when they decide to "re-design" them.
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Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
101
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 03:32:00 -
[377] - Quote
Rise,
Please for the love of god give the pest more shield than armour. The phoon already makes a good armour BS, the tempest is best in shield config. It still needs a falloff bonus or another mid, or another low, but if nothing else at least give the extra armour into shield.
The Phoon, do what you did with the Navy Scythe, seriously it works for everyone. It gives people with only projectiles the opportunity to use it and people can still fit a full rack of launchers. I'd suggest keeping the drone bay intact, it's something that made this ship so versatile. Infact with the current changes, any versatility the phoon had will be lost, and that's sad. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
598
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 04:19:00 -
[378] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:Schmell wrote:Oh you dont realize yet how powerful explosion velocity bonus is. Its not weaker, it is much much stronger than raven. The issue isn't which one is stronger, it's that they are way too similar. Other than tanking choice they were functional mirrors of each other in PvP.
This. ^^
Yes, I cross-trained Caldari and missiles a long time ago but, if I wanted a Raven I'd fly a Raven. I want a versatile Typhoon and not a "Minmatar Raven" with some slapped on as a concession un-bonused turrets and a nerfed drone bay. Come on CCP, you redid the new Scythe as a split weapon platform, you can do it with the Typhoon as well.
What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1152
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 05:19:00 -
[379] - Quote
The Typhoon is probably - or rather was - one of the most wild ships you could fly. You had three different weapon systems to choose from. There were so many different ways to fit it:
Hospital 'Phoon - RR configuration. Out of favor for a while now. You fell back on one high slot weapon system and your drones. Neut 'Phoon - Same as above but with Neuts. Disco 'Phoon - Smartbombing for everyone! Nano 'Phoon - Make it go fast! Brick 'Phoon - Weapons in all the high slots, as many plates as you could fit in the lows.
Torps - good damage against same size ships. AC - Put a TC in the mid and 650s would rake cruiser sized ships quite well.
One of my favorite fits to this day for the ship was: High: 650mm II x 4 Torp Arbalest Launcher x 4 Mid: 100MN MWD Tracking Computer II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler Low: DC II EANM II x 2 1600mm Rolled Tungsten x 4 Rigs: Trimark x 3
Drones - Ogres II x 5, one flight each of Warrior II and Hobs II
The ship approached 1km/s (1390m/s overheated), had 160k EHP, and pushed 1k DPS even without any damage modules. On top of that - 320m sig radius.
I'm sad about this ship because I'm being told that it needs to be flown 'this way' and most of the other options are being stripped from it. There will be no drone bay to fall back upon. You only get one bonused weapon system. There are other ships that do the neut or RR thing better. All in all it will be a very predictable ship when you see it out in the field. |
DR BiCarbonate
Basgerin Pirate SCUM.
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 07:02:00 -
[380] - Quote
After spending years training for the perfect 'phoon, it feels pretty ****** to have it changed to missiles. as many others have said before, the phoon is the swiss army knife of bs, you never know what it will have fit. with only 7 highs you just killed its utility
ditto with everyone else, basically its a armor tanked raven..... why the **** does it have more shields than armor? lulwut? why dont you switch those two around, you look pretty stupid.
you guys ruined the cyclone, one of my favorite ships in eve and butchered the **** out of it. now its a ****** missile spewing caldari boat. doubtful i will ever fly it again.
now the phoon gets the ****** missile treatment? really? at least give it 125 drone BW..... wtf you supposed to do with 100?
get your head out of your ass, minmatar are pure autocannons, missiles are secondary if at all.
im getting pretty pissed at these 'rebalancing' bullshit
whatevs, ive told you my view, continue ruining eve, keep up the good work! |
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raawe
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.04.11 07:48:00 -
[381] - Quote
Like the changes! |
Garresh
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 07:51:00 -
[382] - Quote
Wow no need to be **** dude. Rise is listening to feedback. Maybe offer an alternative layout? |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
556
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 08:40:00 -
[383] - Quote
Everyone getting mad at changes.
Are rebalancing threads retirement homes ?
Yes, the Typhoon won't be what it always have been.
Yes, it will probably get the same treatment the Cyclone had.
Is it necessarily bad ? Depends.
If you can't adapt/don't want to, then it's probably bad for you.
If you're looking for new things to try, new challenges and new fits to build, then it's probably good for you.
Simple as that.
That said, The current proposed changes seem alright. The Raven still needs to be looked at, but I would be okay to fly the current proposed Typhoon.
Looks like a solid armor brawler as well as a fun shield kiter.
I don't really see what's wrong with changing things. It brings you new stuff to try, ain't that cool ? |
Sunuva Gunn
Glowing Goat Black Fence.
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 08:50:00 -
[384] - Quote
Akturous wrote: The Phoon, do what you did with the Navy Scythe, seriously it works for everyone. It gives people with only projectiles the opportunity to use it and people can still fit a full rack of launchers. I'd suggest keeping the drone bay intact, it's something that made this ship so versatile. Infact with the current changes, any versatility the phoon had will be lost, and that's sad.
I'm getting behind this.
I'm also hoping that the Navy Scythe changes won't change things like its tiny Sig and ability to outrun any other cruiser (even ones that are meant to be faster), but I won't get to wound up about that. The Phoon is way more important. Without it the Republic will be left without a Tri-system battleship. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
556
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 08:58:00 -
[385] - Quote
Sunuva Gunn wrote:Without it the Republic will be left without a Tri-system battleship.
Considering Tri-system ships are inferior to regular dual-system ships, it probably wouldn't be a bad thing |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
465
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 09:26:00 -
[386] - Quote
Maelstrom: No change: OK Tempest: A little on the slow side or should become a real shield tanker with 7/6/6 Typhoon: Pretty good so far, maybe a little bit more grid/fittings.
Either way, drastic changes from this point would probably upset more people than they would please. Just tweaks needed I think. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
112
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 09:53:00 -
[387] - Quote
Pattern Clarc wrote:Maelstrom: No change: OK Tempest: A little on the slow side or should become a real shield tanker with 7/6/6 Typhoon: Pretty good so far, maybe a little bit more grid/fittings.
Either way, drastic changes from this point would probably upset more people than they would please. Just tweaks needed I think.
To be frank I stil woudl prefer tempest as 7/5/7 because then we have an oficial armor tanker (I suspect the phoon will be used much more as a shield FAT BC / FAT stealth bomber. |
Luke Hammarskjold
Seventh Heaven's Retinue Dominatus Atrum Mortis
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 10:12:00 -
[388] - Quote
I really liked the phoon before, but with the reduced drone capabilities I dont think it will be so awesome... |
Sunuva Gunn
Glowing Goat Black Fence.
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 11:23:00 -
[389] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Sunuva Gunn wrote:Without it the Republic will be left without a Tri-system battleship. Considering Tri-system ships are inferior to regular dual-system ships, it probably wouldn't be a bad thing
I never had an issue with it.
SMT008 wrote: That said, The current proposed changes seem alright. The Raven still needs to be looked at, but I would be okay to fly the current proposed Typhoon.
I'd rather they just look at the Raven, rather than turn the Phoon into a cookie-cutter of it.
SMT008 wrote: I don't really see what's wrong with changing things. It brings you new stuff to try, ain't that cool ?
Simply that, whilst giving you the new ship with one hand, they're taking away the old one with the other. Sure, give us a missile boat, but don't expect people who don't fly missile boats to want to use them. |
Icarius
The Wings of Maak Defiant Legacy
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:36:00 -
[390] - Quote
From april 2012 to april 2013, with both typhoon and typhoon fleet, solo pvp, i was able to kill 43 (with typhoon) + 166 (with typhoon fleet) targets for a total dmg done about 100B, for 2 bs loss. My fit is based on the use of a full rack of siege launchers + 2 heavy unstable and one bcu t2.
So lets speak about your new typhoon ... and I think I know what I'm talking about.
One remarks: for whose who say : if you want to go for missiles use a raven, we do not need an armor raven ... well i need to tank armor and to launch missiles, my personnals stats, and others (from jalmon as example) shows it is more than a viable option ...
On the paper, i should approve these changes but it's a failure, why?
Currently. my dps is : 844 dps, 587dps from torps, 257 dps from drones.
If i move to the new typhoon with the same fit: My dps will be : 793 dps , 587dps from torps, 205 dps from drones since i have only 4 heavy drones (should i speak about the versatility loss whith the drone bay nerf?). I still have my 2 heavy neutras and i need them. It helps to break targets tank and get ride of light tacklers. I lose dps, some drone bay for the gain of a med slot : not worth it.
If i move to the new typhoon and use the 6th launcher. My dps will be : 910dps , 705 dps from torps, 205 dps from drones, but i lose one neutra. So i have a dps gain but what is the price for that, a massive loss of versatility and therefore survivability coming from drones nerf and high slot utility nerf. Again, the 5th medium slot ... is useless, you will not have enough cpu that's all.
I do not want more already ... but the worst is coming
Lets apply my fit to ... the new armageddon, it s not a joke. My dps will be 856dps, 470dps from torps, 386 dps from drones (nice drone bonus, superb drone bay and bandwith, even amarrs are happy, we take it) I stil can fit my 2 heavy neutras, oh and unbelievable their range will be almost 38km funny, more dps than my current typhoon , better neutra range, better drone, better versatility for the price of 54dps loss compared to the new typhoon.
With the current proposition for the bs changes, well i assume i will move to ... an armageddon ... if it is not a failure? what is it?
What is true behind that? I think you first started to had a launcher slot and remove the turret bonus to create a new gunboat. Then you discovered how unfair it is compared to the raven with its poor drone bay So you decided to nerf the drone bay and move high slot to a med slot as compensation thus it s not really a gift.
Icarius, futur ex typhoon pilot.
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