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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Garresh
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 20:09:00 -
[601] - Quote
Kinda sad how few people are defending the old typhoon. We really need some feedback from CCP Rise on what's gonna happen. I really want to see minmatar keep at least one utility battleship. This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Miss Mass
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.04.15 21:10:00 -
[602] - Quote
Garresh wrote:Kinda sad how few people are defending the old typhoon. We really need some feedback from CCP Rise on what's gonna happen. I really want to see minmatar keep at least one utility battleship. Though I think some of the comments that have been made, including yours, were quite persuasive. Unfortunately I'm not having the feeling that that's going to translate into any changes to their plans for Odyssey.
I've become somewhat resigned to simply hoping that the Typhoon Fleet Issue will maintain to the character of the Typhoon that we love. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
483
|
Posted - 2013.04.15 21:41:00 -
[603] - Quote
On the podcast/twitch thing it seemed as if CCP Rise probably won't make many changes until after live testing.... But it would be good to get some sort of confirmation. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1173
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 02:00:00 -
[604] - Quote
Pattern Clarc wrote:On the podcast/twitch thing it seemed as if CCP Rise probably won't make many changes until after live testing.... But it would be good to get some sort of confirmation.
They completely skipped over Minmatar at the beginning when discussing the BS changes. Over half way done - still listening. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3333
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 02:36:00 -
[605] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Pattern Clarc wrote:On the podcast/twitch thing it seemed as if CCP Rise probably won't make many changes until after live testing.... But it would be good to get some sort of confirmation. They completely skipped over Minmatar at the beginning when discussing the BS changes. Over half way done - still listening.
They never get back to Minmatar. I'd say it's because Kil2 and both hosts are heavily Gallente pilots.
-Liang
Ed: Kil2 does say that he feels it's kinda cool how Caldari has an ewar hull and Minmatar has two attack hulls - a point which I actually agree with. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
142
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Posted - 2013.04.16 10:20:00 -
[606] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:Pattern Clarc wrote:On the podcast/twitch thing it seemed as if CCP Rise probably won't make many changes until after live testing.... But it would be good to get some sort of confirmation. They completely skipped over Minmatar at the beginning when discussing the BS changes. Over half way done - still listening. They never get back to Minmatar. I'd say it's because Kil2 and both hosts are heavily Gallente pilots. -Liang Ed: Kil2 does say that he feels it's kinda cool how Caldari has an ewar hull and Minmatar has two attack hulls - a point which I actually agree with.
Rememberign that we had to make a giatn outcry for them to perceive that race identity was more important thatn uniformity and minmatar should have 2 attack hulls.
But I agree with you... its clear that gallente received much more attention, not that they did not deserve.. but other races also deseve it. And minmatar still have the LOOONG stanting issue of lack of tempest identity. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
483
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 10:48:00 -
[607] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:Pattern Clarc wrote:On the podcast/twitch thing it seemed as if CCP Rise probably won't make many changes until after live testing.... But it would be good to get some sort of confirmation. They completely skipped over Minmatar at the beginning when discussing the BS changes. Over half way done - still listening. They never get back to Minmatar. I'd say it's because Kil2 and both hosts are heavily Gallente pilots. -Liang Ed: Kil2 does say that he feels it's kinda cool how Caldari has an ewar hull and Minmatar has two attack hulls - a point which I actually agree with. Rememberign that we had to make a giatn outcry for them to perceive that race identity was more important thatn uniformity and minmatar should have 2 attack hulls. But I agree with you... its clear that gallente received much more attention, not that they did not deserve.. but other races also deseve it. And minmatar still have the LOOONG stanting issue of lack of tempest identity. To be fair, Gallente was always broken. When CCP Tuxford's devblog introduced the Hyperion, he half apologised for running out of ideas for the bonus and ever since then, almost every game design change or every module nerf has weakened Gallente disproportionately. Even after the hybrid rebalance no one was satisfied, and we're still waiting to see what lies in store for any ship previously focused on medium rails.
Meanwhile, minmatar had some of the biggest rebalances ever - being reborn as Winmatar. There are still a few problems though. In some ways, Artillery is papering over the cracks between the Maelstrom and Tempest and in many ways the Old and the New Tempest is uncompetitive, and not really suiting the way players generally prefer to use the ship.
Ideally, I'd restore the slot, drones and hardpoints Typhoon almost back to the way it was, keeping everything else changed including the bonuses. The 2 utility high slots would remain on the ship best, and most likely to need to use it (way better synergy with >40km torps than <50km Autocannons) and the Tempest, relatively low on flexibility given the existing weapons bonuses would get the additional flexibility 12 Mid+Lows provides. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
142
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 11:43:00 -
[608] - Quote
Pattern Clarc wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Zarnak Wulf wrote:Pattern Clarc wrote:On the podcast/twitch thing it seemed as if CCP Rise probably won't make many changes until after live testing.... But it would be good to get some sort of confirmation. They completely skipped over Minmatar at the beginning when discussing the BS changes. Over half way done - still listening. They never get back to Minmatar. I'd say it's because Kil2 and both hosts are heavily Gallente pilots. -Liang Ed: Kil2 does say that he feels it's kinda cool how Caldari has an ewar hull and Minmatar has two attack hulls - a point which I actually agree with. Rememberign that we had to make a giatn outcry for them to perceive that race identity was more important thatn uniformity and minmatar should have 2 attack hulls. But I agree with you... its clear that gallente received much more attention, not that they did not deserve.. but other races also deseve it. And minmatar still have the LOOONG stanting issue of lack of tempest identity. To be fair, Gallente was always broken. When CCP Tuxford's devblog introduced the Hyperion, he half apologised for running out of ideas for the bonus and ever since then, almost every game design change or every module nerf has weakened Gallente disproportionately. Even after the hybrid rebalance no one was satisfied, and we're still waiting to see what lies in store for any ship previously focused on medium rails. Meanwhile, minmatar had some of the biggest rebalances ever - being reborn as Winmatar. There are still a few problems though. In some ways, Artillery is papering over the cracks between the Maelstrom and Tempest and in many ways the Old and the New Tempest is uncompetitive, and not really suiting the way players generally prefer to use the ship. Ideally, I'd restore the slot, drones and hardpoints Typhoon almost back to the way it was, keeping everything else changed including the bonuses. The 2 utility high slots would remain on the ship best, and most likely to need to use it (way better synergy with >40km torps than <50km Autocannons) and the Tempest, relatively low on flexibility given the existing weapons bonuses would get the additional flexibility 12 Mid+Lows provides.
damm... lets kick the bucket!
3/8/8 with 3 turrets and 10% rof per level and 10% damage per level :P
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Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
106
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 11:46:00 -
[609] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:It should also be mentioned that we hope to have a look at cruise missiles and torpedos in time for the summer expansion as well.
Can we please get the thread about this rolling too? It is a crucial piece of rebalancing and should be taken into account. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
483
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 11:47:00 -
[610] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
damm... lets kick the bucket!
3/8/8 with 3 turrets and 10% rof per level and 10% damage per level :P
Where do I sign? :P Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
162
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 13:46:00 -
[611] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Rememberign that we had to make a giatn outcry for them to perceive that race identity was more important thatn uniformity and minmatar should have 2 attack hulls.
Exactly ^ :) I think we were the biggest advocates along with a few others of reducing the Tempest signature initially, but now CCP Rise is taking all the credit for our idea. :) |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
162
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 13:53:00 -
[612] - Quote
Pattern Clarc wrote:Ideally, I'd restore the slot, drones and hardpoints Typhoon almost back to the way it was, keeping everything else changed including the bonuses.
I wouldn't mind the old layout either. That way you not getting quite the versatility with the medium slots though.
I made my proposal for the Typhoon in another thread. This way you can keep some of the utility of the old Typhoon but still keep the mid slot which I think was a good addition by Rise.
Typhoon:
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses: 5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire 5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo launcher explosion velocity
Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 5 turrets, 5 launchers (-1) Fittings: 12500 PWG, 640 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6500 / 6000 / 6000 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5400 / 1087s / 4.97 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 130 / .11 / 103600000 / 15.8 Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 (+25) / 200 (+100) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 115 / 7 Sensor strength: 19 Ladar Sensor Strength Signature radius: 330[/quote]
I can imagine fitting the Typhoon proposed above something like this
[Typhoon, Typhoon] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener True Sansha Armor Explosive Hardener True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
100MN Microwarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Target Painter II Target Painter II
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Hail L
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Hobgoblin II x10 Ogre II x6
The torp launchers put out 826 dps at max skills, the unbonused autos would put out an extra 111 dps, then unbonused heavy drones an additional 317.
This way the Typhoon still can fully utilise all 3 weapon systems, including a decently sized drone bay, and does not simply become and armoured Raven.
Looks quite fun to fit and fly, and still maintains a good use for all 3 weapons systems if required. That is pretty cookie cutter though, I'm sure the ship engineers could come up with something much better. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
162
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 14:04:00 -
[613] - Quote
Garresh wrote:Kinda sad how few people are defending the old typhoon. We really need some feedback from CCP Rise on what's gonna happen. I really want to see minmatar keep at least one utility battleship.
I've been defending to keep the old Typhoon character through out this thread. But with nothing new coming from CCP Rise for a while now I think people have dropped off until some new information comes out. I reckon they will be back when we get some more news though.
Even if nothing else changes on the typhoon I think we can at least hopefully expect some changes in the drone bay department. At least that is what I'm gunning for, I think that is the single most important change needed throughout the whole minmatar line up right at the moment. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
145
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 14:26:00 -
[614] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Rememberign that we had to make a giatn outcry for them to perceive that race identity was more important thatn uniformity and minmatar should have 2 attack hulls. Exactly ^ :) I think we were the biggest advocates along with a few others of reducing the Tempest signature initially, but now CCP Rise is taking all the credit for our idea. :)
I do not care for credits.. I care for things being done right. The guys at ccp working on mechanics adn ship balance with they have memoy know who are the people that have been giving suggestions that eventually came to get into the game. I have my own few, but do not need any credits ackknowlegment. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
316
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 19:29:00 -
[615] - Quote
Miss Mass wrote:Garresh wrote:Kinda sad how few people are defending the old typhoon. We really need some feedback from CCP Rise on what's gonna happen. I really want to see minmatar keep at least one utility battleship. Though I think some of the comments that have been made, including yours, were quite persuasive. Unfortunately I'm not having the feeling that that's going to translate into any changes to their plans for Odyssey. I've become somewhat resigned to simply hoping that the Typhoon Fleet Issue will maintain to the character of the Typhoon that we love.
http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
163
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 21:29:00 -
[616] - Quote
Was just thinking of how the new ship progression would work, and I think it would be great for Rise to model any further tweaks to the Tempest on being the bigger brother to the Hurricane.
Right now the Tempest is already a lot of the old hurricane we all loved and also the current navy issue one which is being returned. They both have the two utility high slots, great projectile damage application, ability to be shield or armour tanked, and also the ability to be auto or artillery fit.
I think if we can get a sort of bigger brother version to the hurricane then that will make a lot of sense and will become a ship which everyone will really love.
That way we could have a missile and drone line of ships, and then a fast attack projectile line of ships.
Breacher > Talwar > Bellicose > Cyclone > Typhoon
Rifter > Thrasher > Stabber > Hurricane > Tempest
That would make a lot of sense if the ship progression went something like that. |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Tormented of Destiny Cha Ching PLC
117
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 21:43:00 -
[617] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote: I think if we can get a sort of bigger brother version to the hurricane then that will make a lot of sense and will become a ship which everyone will really love.
That way we could have a missile and drone line of ships, and then a fast attack projectile line of ships.
Breacher > Talwar > Bellicose > Cyclone > Typhoon
Rifter > Thrasher > Stabber > Hurricane > Tempest
That would make a lot of sense if the ship progression went something like that.
Assumed i have read the proposed changes correctly and haven't had a major derp, thats exactly what ccp is going for. making the typhoon drone bay smaller is part of that. it was bigger as you would have expected. but i would not complain for the current typhoon to get the FleetScythe treatment and otherwise stay as it is right now ^^ |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
483
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 21:46:00 -
[618] - Quote
The Tempest is already an overground hurricane (except it can still fit 1600mm plates ), and it still kinda sucks. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
May Ke
Chemically Inconvenienced Ishukone Drug and Research Utilization Group
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 21:50:00 -
[619] - Quote
I don't often post, but I feel the need to here.
You have torn the soul from the heart of the Typhoon. You have also given the Minmatar 3 Attack Battleships, in your own words, so where is our alternative?
CCP Rise wrote:
Typhoon: .... it will be sacrificing some of this utility to take on such a strong attack role GÇô this is a point for which we are paying close attention to your feedback.
You keep nerfing Minmatar ships, are you trying to make up for that projectile weapons buff a few years back?
. Who? Me? |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
163
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 21:55:00 -
[620] - Quote
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:Assumed i have read the proposed changes correctly and haven't had a major derp, thats exactly what ccp is going for. making the typhoon drone bay smaller is part of that. it was bigger as you would have expected. but i would not complain for the current typhoon to get the FleetScythe treatment and otherwise stay as it is right now ^^
Yes, I'm not sure if it is intentional by CCP to put the Tempest into that line, but it definitely would make sense, so perhaps you are right and that is what they were doing all along.
A lot of the missile ships do have a better drone bay compared to the projectile line of ships. So hopefully it wont be too out of place to give the Typhoon at least a 200m3 bay even if bw stays at 100m3.
Pattern Clarc wrote:The Tempest is already an overgrown hurricane (except it can still fit 1600mm plates ), and it still kinda sucks.
Yeah, that is how me and a lot of people already fly them. They definitley don't suck though so would have to disagree on that one. :) the current Tempest is very versatile as the hurricane is so I find a lot of use for it. Seems many other do also as CCP Rise mentioned in the original post. |
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Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
164
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 21:58:00 -
[621] - Quote
May Ke wrote: You have also given the Minmatar 3 Attack Battleships, in your own words, so where is our alternative?
The Maelstrom is not going to be an attack BS, so we are only getting two, which is actually a good thing as the combat version of the Tempest sucked.
CCP Rise wrote:You keep nerfing Minmatar ships, are you trying to make up for that projectile weapons buff a few years back?
Have to agree with this, I think if projectiles need a nerf then do that, but don't nerf the whole line of minmatar ships. If it is projectiles which are too strong then deal with that first. But I guess with tiericide that logical approach isn't going to happen. |
Felix Crusher
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 08:51:00 -
[622] - Quote
I always found it bizzare that the Maelstrom had the same PG as an Abaddon, and I was certain this would be getting changed here...but it seems it's been overlooked again. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
151
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 11:10:00 -
[623] - Quote
Felix Crusher wrote:I always found it bizzare that the Maelstrom had the same PG as an Abaddon, and I was certain this would be getting changed here...but it seems it's been overlooked again.
1400mm arties use much more powergrid than ANYTHIGN but tachyons. |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
297
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 11:16:00 -
[624] - Quote
Felix Crusher wrote:I always found it bizzare that the Maelstrom had the same PG as an Abaddon, and I was certain this would be getting changed here...but it seems it's been overlooked again. Yes it is bizzare , especially as the mael is shield tanked. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
151
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 13:18:00 -
[625] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Felix Crusher wrote:I always found it bizzare that the Maelstrom had the same PG as an Abaddon, and I was certain this would be getting changed here...but it seems it's been overlooked again. Yes it is bizzare , especially as the mael is shield tanked.
Selective view much of you (well that would be as saying that the Pope is biased towards religion).
The lasers are gettign PG usage nerf, now things are pretty close to 1400mm PG usage. |
Avald Midular
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2013.04.17 18:04:00 -
[626] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Felix Crusher wrote:I always found it bizzare that the Maelstrom had the same PG as an Abaddon, and I was certain this would be getting changed here...but it seems it's been overlooked again. 1400mm arties use much more powergrid than ANYTHIGN but tachyons.
Which is the Amarr equivalent which was his point to begin with. The Mael shield tanks and the Abaddon armor tanks which again takes more PG which was also someone else's point. |
Cutlass Claire
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 20:59:00 -
[627] - Quote
Will the changes to the Typhoon also be implemented on the Typhoon Fleet Issue?
Cause that will be one hell of a nice ship to fly with the planned cruise missile changes
edit: bying one just in case, seem kinda cheapish atm |
Kurron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.04.17 21:34:00 -
[628] - Quote
Garresh wrote:Kinda sad how few people are defending the old typhoon. We really need some feedback from CCP Rise on what's gonna happen. I really want to see minmatar keep at least one utility battleship.
That's because the new Typhoon is just better than the old one. Not more powerful, note, but better - filling a role that didn't exist before. |
Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1175
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 01:54:00 -
[629] - Quote
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:Was just thinking of how the new ship progression would work, and I think it would be great for Rise to model any further tweaks to the Tempest on being the bigger brother to the Hurricane.
Right now the Tempest is already a lot of the old hurricane we all loved and also the current navy issue one which is being returned. They both have the two utility high slots, great projectile damage application, ability to be shield or armour tanked, and also the ability to be auto or artillery fit.
I think if we can get a sort of bigger brother version to the hurricane then that will make a lot of sense and will become a ship which everyone will really love.
That way we could have a missile and drone line of ships, and then a fast attack projectile line of ships.
Breacher > Talwar > Bellicose > Cyclone > Typhoon
Rifter > Thrasher > Stabber > Hurricane > Tempest
That would make a lot of sense if the ship progression went something like that.
Not exactly. There are or will be two missile ship lines:
Breacher - Talwar - Cyclone - Typhoon.
The Talwar and Typhoon are odd balls in this line-up. The Typhoon would be a shield booster if it followed the path exactly.
The next missile line is the ewar line. Vigil - Bellicose. The Hyena, Rapier, and Huginn should eventually fit here.
The projectile line I would have the Rupture rather then the Stabber in that lineup. Fast attack is more:
Slasher - Stabber - Vagabond |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
431
|
Posted - 2013.04.18 01:58:00 -
[630] - Quote
wtf, making useless minmatard ship, i recommend to think it twice. |
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