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Thomas Hurt
Vasilkovsky Interstellar Goonswarm Federation
113
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Totally hypothetical question, but at what level of absolutely reprehensible personal views held by a CSM candidate would CCP say "thats it, you can't run". Like, (again, hypothetically) if an honest-to-God Neo-**** were running for CSM, would CCP bar them from the election? Allowing them to run is a tacit endorsement of their views, IMHO. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14622
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Isn't what they think about the game, balance and being able to keep to the NDA, the applicable part here? Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Thomas Hurt
Vasilkovsky Interstellar Goonswarm Federation
113
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Isn't what they think about the game, balance and being able to keep to the NDA, the applicable part here?
Yes that is applicable, but if someone actually adheres to an ideology that espouses the extermination or enslavement of large swathes of humanity, surely that would affect their ability to work with other people (one of the Goon candidates is Jewish, for example. see: "The Jewbal"). |
Frying Doom
2023
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
As the servers and these forums are held in England a strong case could be made for the inforcement of EU law in regards to anti-discrimination
So
Handbook on European non-discrimination law wrote: 3.5.2. Political participation: freedom of expression, assembly and association, and free elections one of the main goals of the Council of Europe is the promotion of democracy. This is reflected in many of the rights in the ECHR which facilitate the promotion of political participation. While EU law confers a limited range of rights in this respect (in particular the right for EU nationals to vote in municipal elections and European parliament elections), the ECHR contains broader guarantees creating not only a right to vote and stand in elections, but also flanking rights of freedom of expression and the right to freedom of assembly and association.
Example: in the case of B-àczkowski and Others v. Poland, discussed above, the refusal of permission to hold a march to raise awareness about sexual orientation discrimination, coupled with publicly made homophobic remarks of the mayor, amounted to a violation of the right to freedom of assembly (Article 11) together with Article 14.
The right to freedom of association has also been taken to include protection for the formation of political parties, which the ECtHR has accorded a high level of protection against interference.
So preventing someone from standing on the basis of their political beliefs would frankly just get CCP sued with a high probability of losing.
We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
14622
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thomas Hurt wrote:Mag's wrote:Isn't what they think about the game, balance and being able to keep to the NDA, the applicable part here? Yes that is applicable, but if someone actually adheres to an ideology that espouses the extermination or enslavement of large swathes of humanity, surely that would affect their ability to work with other people (one of the Goon candidates is Jewish, for example. see: "The Jewbal"). Then that would be a personal issue CCP would deal with, if it arose.
I'm sure that Malcanis has views on things I disagree with, in regards to real life. But the CSM is about the game and it's balance. It's a link for the players to the devs, to allow the venting of issues. Their RL political views are irrelevant. If that ever changes in any way in the term, CCP would deal with it.
Not sure what your agenda here is TBH, other than getting to be able to post bad names. Malcanis for CSM 8. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Thur Barbek
Republic University Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
So you want to discriminate against X group for what they believe? (****'s in your example.)
Gee you sound about as tolerant as the ****'s were.
edit: lol, forum blocks Na-zi... wow, maybe your onto something |
Verlai
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
What a ridiculous question, since there's no way any company interested in engaging in international business would be stupid enough to openly associate themselves with an avowed racist. Why, they'd have to be downright incompetent if they maintained such a relationship and hoped to keep up a good public image!
I highly doubt CCP would be idiotic enough to even tacitly support such a person, since there's no way they're moronic enough to permit a CSM member with such views to publicly represent them. What an unusual and unprompted question. |
Thomas Hurt
Vasilkovsky Interstellar Goonswarm Federation
113
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Verlai wrote:What a ridiculous question, since there's no way any company interested in engaging in international business would be stupid enough to openly associate themselves with an avowed racist. Why, they'd have to be downright incompetent if they maintained such a relationship and hoped to keep up a good public image!
I highly doubt CCP would be idiotic enough to even tacitly support such a person, since there's no way they're moronic enough to permit a CSM member with such views to publicly represent them. What an unusual and unprompted question.
Verlai I'm not sure if you're joking or not (you might be), but that is actually exactly what CCP is doing! |
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
243
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 14:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
The CSM are meant to embody the spirit of the community in its best possible light.
Members of the CSM are supposed to uphold the various codes of conduct that CCP has in place for different things: the game itself, the forums, and any physical event locations.
Any member of the CSM that fails to uphold these values can be removed (as an example, The Mittani for his lapse of judgement and decorum at a panel at fanfest) so I would expect CCP to use that as the baseline in determining the suitability of a candidate.
I don't think that CCP does an extensive background check of candidates behaviour even if they have public blogs or, perhaps, CCP gives candidates a "blank slate" to which to start with once they announce their candidacy.
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
786
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 15:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:
So preventing someone from standing on the basis of their political beliefs would frankly just get CCP sued with a high probability of losing.
If that is true about EU & political beliefs how come you can still get thrown in jail in Germany for giving the old **** salute?
EDIT: You can say NEO-**** but not regular ****? Ripard Teg-á for CSM 8 Disclaimer: CCP Bias is a fictional character. In case that some CCP Bias does exist,-áis he an ex-goon? |
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Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1715
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Handbook on European non-discrimination law wrote: 3.5.2. Political participation: freedom of expression, assembly and association, and free elections one of the main goals of the Council of Europe is the promotion of democracy. This is reflected in many of the rights in the ECHR which facilitate the promotion of political participation. While EU law confers a limited range of rights in this respect (in particular the right for EU nationals to vote in municipal elections and European parliament elections), the ECHR contains broader guarantees creating not only a right to vote and stand in elections, but also flanking rights of freedom of expression and the right to freedom of assembly and association.
Example: in the case of B-àczkowski and Others v. Poland, discussed above, the refusal of permission to hold a march to raise awareness about sexual orientation discrimination, coupled with publicly made homophobic remarks of the mayor, amounted to a violation of the right to freedom of assembly (Article 11) together with Article 14.
The right to freedom of association has also been taken to include protection for the formation of political parties, which the ECtHR has accorded a high level of protection against interference.
So preventing someone from standing on the basis of their political beliefs would frankly just get CCP sued with a high probability of losing. If that is true about EU & political beliefs how come you can still get thrown in jail in Germany for giving the old Hitlergru+ƒ salute? EDIT: how come in the OP Neo-**** is not censored & in mine it is? Because the law he is quoting specificly refers to government intervention in political office.
Basically, he's ~internet lawyering~ and getting it wrong.
For instance, in the UK, students have been expelled for giving the Hitler salute in schools. Surely not, according to Frying Doom! - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1275
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Oh wait...Thomas Hurt thread.. Nevermind.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2973
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Oh wait...Thomas Hurt thread.. Nevermind.
Pretty much this. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Thomas Hurt
Vasilkovsky Interstellar Goonswarm Federation
113
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
It boggles the mind that someone can post a thread about an avowed Neo-Nazi running for the CSM, and the only reaction is " Weak troll thread is weak 0/10" |
Grayson Cole
R.A.V.E.N.
9
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
There are several null bears in the candidate pool, and most of them will get "elected".
Isn't that enough? |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
1278
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thomas Hurt wrote:It boggles the mind that someone can post a thread about an avowed Neo-Na zi running for the CSM, and the only reaction is " Weak troll thread is weak 0/10"
If cyber bullies who get banned from the game for their antics are still allowed to run, why not a Neo-****? The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2973
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thomas Hurt wrote:It boggles the mind that someone can post a thread about an avowed Neo-Na zi running for the CSM, and the only reaction is " Weak troll thread is weak 0/10"
No one posted this. Whether it be medications youre on or need to be on, Stop. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
901
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thomas Hurt wrote:It boggles the mind that someone can re post a thread several times specifically designed to troll but yet i have not been banned from posting"
FYP
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Thomas Hurt
Vasilkovsky Interstellar Goonswarm Federation
113
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Thomas Hurt wrote:It boggles the mind that someone can post a thread about an avowed Neo-Na zi running for the CSM, and the only reaction is " Weak troll thread is weak 0/10" If cyber bullies who get banned from the game for their antics are still allowed to run, why not a Neo-****?
That was completely different, and you know it. The Mittani was utilizing a Zen technique wherein the instructor compels the student to think deeply on the subject of death and seriously consider suicide; the appearance of the yawning void before them and the contemplation of annihilation will shake the experiencer out of any suicide ideation they may hold, and allow them to relate more healthily to life and the inevitability of death...
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Sarmatiko
992
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 16:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Thomas Hurt wrote:one of the Goon candidates is Jewish, for example. see: "The Jewbal"). Yet it's totally acceptable to use "N-word" and "jewbal" everywhere, from local chat to GSF CEO update, if you are goon. Racism is cool and fun if it comes from fellow corp mate, isn't it?
Also, I thought we electing Council of Stellar Management, not Goonswarm Meet and Greet Annual Pub Crawl Party.
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Verfanny
Seamap Solutions
35
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Posted - 2013.03.28 17:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Where in hell do you guys find the time to think about those questions? |
Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
399
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 17:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
Grayson Cole wrote:There are several null bears in the candidate pool, and most of them will get "elected".
Isn't that enough?
Why do you have elected in quote marks?
Are you suggesting that the null bears are engaged in a nefarious plot to cast their votes for their own candidates, thus ensuring they win an election? I for one cannot believe even they would stoop so low. |
Frying Doom
2024
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 17:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Handbook on European non-discrimination law wrote: 3.5.2. Political participation: freedom of expression, assembly and association, and free elections one of the main goals of the Council of Europe is the promotion of democracy. This is reflected in many of the rights in the ECHR which facilitate the promotion of political participation. While EU law confers a limited range of rights in this respect (in particular the right for EU nationals to vote in municipal elections and European parliament elections), the ECHR contains broader guarantees creating not only a right to vote and stand in elections, but also flanking rights of freedom of expression and the right to freedom of assembly and association.
Example: in the case of B-àczkowski and Others v. Poland, discussed above, the refusal of permission to hold a march to raise awareness about sexual orientation discrimination, coupled with publicly made homophobic remarks of the mayor, amounted to a violation of the right to freedom of assembly (Article 11) together with Article 14.
The right to freedom of association has also been taken to include protection for the formation of political parties, which the ECtHR has accorded a high level of protection against interference.
So preventing someone from standing on the basis of their political beliefs would frankly just get CCP sued with a high probability of losing. If that is true about EU & political beliefs how come you can still get thrown in jail in Germany for giving the old Hitlergru+ƒ salute? EDIT: how come in the OP Neo-**** is not censored & in mine it is? Because the law he is quoting specificly refers to government intervention in political office. Basically, he's ~internet lawyering~ and getting it wrong. For instance, in the UK, students have been expelled for giving the Hit ler salute in schools. Surely not, according to Frying Doom! Ok once again on a different thread
This is a treaty, a treaty is an article signed by a countries government that means that it will sculpt its laws to those that follow the treaty.
Easy example you cannot remain a signatory of the Non-nuclear proliferation treaty if you sign it and then write a law that says "We will give plutonium to any countries that pay us more than 10 Million dollars.
subsequently any breach by an EU country can cause the case to be handled be EU courts, for breaches of that treaty. We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
951
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 17:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
frying doom if ccp was unable to kick someone off the csm because ~freedom of expression rights~ or w/e mittani'd still be [s]chairman[s/]
e: on the csm* he resigned as chair irrc it doesn't make a difference anyway |
Frying Doom
2024
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 17:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:frying doom if ccp was unable to kick someone off the csm because ~freedom of expression rights~ or w/e mittani'd still be [s]chairman[s/]
e: on the csm* he resigned as chair irrc it doesn't make a difference anyway Freedom of speech does not include what was done their joking or not, plus then it entered EULA. As it was not a section covered by any law governing his religious or political beliefs.
He resigned from CSM5 and was excluded from being able to be a member of CSM 6. We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
|
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1101
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 17:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:As the servers and these forums are held in England a strong case could be made for the inforcement of EU law in regards to anti-discrimination So Handbook on European non-discrimination law wrote: 3.5.2. Political participation: freedom of expression, assembly and association, and free elections one of the main goals of the Council of Europe is the promotion of democracy. This is reflected in many of the rights in the ECHR which facilitate the promotion of political participation. While EU law confers a limited range of rights in this respect (in particular the right for EU nationals to vote in municipal elections and European parliament elections), the ECHR contains broader guarantees creating not only a right to vote and stand in elections, but also flanking rights of freedom of expression and the right to freedom of assembly and association.
Example: in the case of B-àczkowski and Others v. Poland, discussed above, the refusal of permission to hold a march to raise awareness about sexual orientation discrimination, coupled with publicly made homophobic remarks of the mayor, amounted to a violation of the right to freedom of assembly (Article 11) together with Article 14.
The right to freedom of association has also been taken to include protection for the formation of political parties, which the ECtHR has accorded a high level of protection against interference.
So preventing someone from standing on the basis of their political beliefs would frankly just get CCP sued with a high probability of losing.
Don't be silly. This is not a signature. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13401
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 17:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:This is a treaty, a treaty is an article signed by a countries government that means that it will sculpt its laws to those that follow the treaty. GǪand CCP is not a country and does not have any laws. It is pretty much entirely free to pick whom among its voluntary customers is their outwards face.
Quote:subsequently any breach by an EU country can cause the case to be handled be EU courts, for breaches of that treaty. GǪwhich means CCP can't even breach it, much less be hauled off to the EU courts. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Frying Doom
2024
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 18:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Frying Doom wrote:This is a treaty, a treaty is an article signed by a countries government that means that it will sculpt its laws to those that follow the treaty. GǪand CCP is not a country and does not have any laws. It is pretty much entirely free to pick whom among its voluntary customers is their outwards face. Quote:subsequently any breach by an EU country can cause the case to be handled be EU courts, for breaches of that treaty. GǪwhich means CCP can't even breach it, much less be hauled off to the EU courts. CCP is a private entity. Freedom of speech does not apply. Tippia was not talking freedom of speech, and CCP must be a lucky company as apparently as it is not a country it does not have to follow any laws. We all thought CSM 6 was a war crime with it's massive Null Presence CSM7 topped it by selling out our Council to CCP, don't let it happen again. Vote or next time Incarna is your fault. Stupid Signature Broke
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
951
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 18:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:frying doom if ccp was unable to kick someone off the csm because ~freedom of expression rights~ or w/e mittani'd still be [s]chairman[s/]
e: on the csm* he resigned as chair irrc it doesn't make a difference anyway Freedom of speech does not include what was done their joking or not, plus then it entered EULA. As it was not a section covered by any law governing his religious or political beliefs. He resigned from CSM5 and was excluded from being able to be a member of CSM 6. no you are claiming like an idiot that this stupid document saying that people shouldn't be discriminated against in some government or some crap also stops ccp kicking a guy off a csm for political beliefs of stomping all over other people's human rights because ]
that law or whatever also talks about freedom of expression as being a part of that whatever. do you even read what you post after you google it no i didn't think so
btw hate speech is against eula so yeah if ccp can stop mittani being on csm they can stop some neonazi who has made hate speech on these forums being on csm because seriously |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13401
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 18:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Tippia was not talking freedom of speech, Indeed I wasn't. I was talking about companies and how they differ from governments, but others most certainly were talking about freedom of speech. Not that freedom of association is any different.
Quote:and CCP must be a lucky company as apparently as it is not a country it does not have to follow any laws. Sure it does. It just doesn't have to follow the laws that regulate what laws governments are allowed to make and what policies they are allowed to hold, which is what the treaty is about.
The private entity CCP not wanting to be represented by a neonazi is a vastly different matter from the government of [whatever] now allowing people to join certain associations or movements. Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
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