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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3521
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 05:15:00 -
[181] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:I imagine most PVP happens to pad KB with easy targets and if KB were removed most people who profess themselves to be PVPers would unsub and go play CoD or something instead.
Why should kill reports be removed? You do realize they serve purposes other than ego boosting, right? Just the tears of people unable to use their ego boosters would be pretty compelling argument ... I am a nullsec zealot. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4149
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 05:18:00 -
[182] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:I imagine most PVP happens to pad KB with easy targets and if KB were removed most people who profess themselves to be PVPers would unsub and go play CoD or something instead.
Why should kill reports be removed? You do realize they serve purposes other than ego boosting, right? Just the tears of people unable to use their ego boosters would be pretty compelling argument ... Well I'd be pretty disappointed. I like going back and analyzing battles and encounters. It's also a useful source of intel on enemy fits, or a way for corps and alliances to determine if their own pilots are using the proper fit. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3521
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 05:35:00 -
[183] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:I imagine most PVP happens to pad KB with easy targets and if KB were removed most people who profess themselves to be PVPers would unsub and go play CoD or something instead.
Why should kill reports be removed? You do realize they serve purposes other than ego boosting, right? Just the tears of people unable to use their ego boosters would be pretty compelling argument ... Well I'd be pretty disappointed. I like going back and analyzing battles and encounters. It's also a useful source of intel on enemy fits, or a way for corps and alliances to determine if their own pilots are using the proper fit. Oh yeah, the poor reimbursement people would have trouble catching the morons who armor tank their Drakes or have terribly fit maelstroms.
Hm, that's pretty important. So keep the lossmails. Though you might need spies to see aenemy lossmails on their killboard instead of having CCP hand you free intel. Then again, outside of wormholes we do have local, so free intel is always nice. I am a nullsec zealot. |
Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
187
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 03:13:00 -
[184] - Quote
I think to fully understand this sort of thing we need to ask what a wardec is in the first place?
A wardec is a means not an end. If a wardec doesn't have a motive it SHOULD suck
Let us pretend that we play in a game where everyone is not an idiot.
Indy corp has found an Icebelt. Indy corp wants to drive up Ice Prices in the region and reap the profit so they can mine the belt exclusively. They wardec their competing corps in that area. Now lets look for a second at the reaction of TWA Lahara or whatever it is. He docks and disappears off the face of the map. The Indy corp can now mine exclusively to their hearts content. Their imposed Ice monopoly on the area could cause the other corps to communicate and band together to hire someone to get rid of these assholes and get their ice belts back. They could look for some newer greener pastures. Hell, they could look at setting up some sort of awesome stealth importing business to undercut this new aggressive mining corp that don't want to share. But no, instead Tawara or whatever sits in his dock and declares himself the winner. And the worlds keep turning. http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3527
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 03:25:00 -
[185] - Quote
Robus Muvila wrote: But no, instead Tawara or whatever sits in his dock and declares himself the winner. Why didn't they drop to an NPC corp.... these are the things given to all highsec people to preotect themselves from the evil "highsec pvp" I am a nullsec zealot. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
631
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 04:53:00 -
[186] - Quote
Robus Muvila wrote:I think to fully understand this sort of thing we need to ask what a wardec is in the first place?
A wardec is a means not an end. If a wardec doesn't have a motive it SHOULD suck
Let us pretend that we play in a game where everyone is not an idiot.
Indy corp has found an Icebelt. Indy corp wants to drive up Ice Prices in the region and reap the profit so they can mine the belt exclusively. They wardec their competing corps in that area. Now lets look for a second at the reaction of TWA Lahara or whatever it is. He docks and disappears off the face of the map. The Indy corp can now mine exclusively to their hearts content. Their imposed Ice monopoly on the area could cause the other corps to communicate and band together to hire someone to get rid of these assholes and get their ice belts back. They could look for some newer greener pastures. Hell, they could look at setting up some sort of awesome stealth importing business to undercut this new aggressive mining corp that don't want to share. But no, instead Tawara or whatever sits in his dock and declares himself the winner. And the worlds keep turning. This is a great scenario for a working wardec, no doubt the kind of idea the system was intended for.
But does it work that way?
In order for a wardec to mean anything it means you are dealing with a resource in highsec. At last check no ice belt was exclusive to only a pair of corps. A single wardec wouldn't suffice. Several would be needed. Lets go further and say NPC corp wardec invulnerability and corp hopping is fixed and those corps are dec'd as well. You still have the issue of all other belts of the same type in highsec and types which yield the same isotopes elsewhere to contend with on the markets. Securing the highsec resources means that many more wardecs.
Is it really even remotely feasible to control that much of a single resource to compensate for the cost of the wars?
Even if that was somehow successful, what happens when other entities, noticing the increase in ice prices and decide to take advantage of your work? Do you add even more decs to further increase your costs that you must now make up for?
Also an industrial entity interested in this is likely not going to have the strength in numbers or PvP capability to police these wardecs on their own so mercenary costs would likely become involved. It's just not a feasible way to do things for profit. Even securing territory in highsec, such as securing a belt for your corp or all the belts in a system, falls painfully short of placing the greater gain in favor of the aggressor because of the population harvesting and lack of scarcity. But at least in that scenario there can be a convenience factor with not having the rocks in your home system mined out from under you.
Ice on the other hand lacks even that.
We've only seen this plan work once, and it wasn't done through wardecs. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3527
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 05:21:00 -
[187] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:In order for a wardec to mean anything it means you are dealing with a resource in highsec. At last check no ice belt was exclusive to only a pair of corps. A single wardec wouldn't suffice. Several would be needed. Lets go further and say NPC corp wardec invulnerability and corp hopping is fixed and those corps are dec'd as well. "Yo dawg"
I heard you like ridiculous assumptions, so I added some assumptions to your assumptions so you can assume CCP will make highsec more dangerous while assuming they won't make highsec even safer.
P.S. Your post is quite correct, wardecs are not the way to engage in anti-player actives. "Working as intended" I am a nullsec zealot. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
631
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 05:57:00 -
[188] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:In order for a wardec to mean anything it means you are dealing with a resource in highsec. At last check no ice belt was exclusive to only a pair of corps. A single wardec wouldn't suffice. Several would be needed. Lets go further and say NPC corp wardec invulnerability and corp hopping is fixed and those corps are dec'd as well. "Yo dawg" I heard you like ridiculous assumptions, so I added some assumptions to your assumptions so you can assume CCP will make highsec more dangerous while assuming they won't make highsec even safer. P.S. Your post is quite correct, wardecs are not the way to engage in anti-player actives. "Working as intended" I made no assumptions really, but I'll admit I haven't been in ice belts for a while. So for all I know there could only be 2 corps represented there now.
But if that isn't the case what I said stands. As for the rest, without it policing a resource through wardec is impossible so bringing up this scenario makes no sense.
In the end it's just another reason why when it worked wardecs weren't the tool of choice. They do have their purposes, but several of those purposes (especially in the cases of large scale resource denial and economic warfare) don't work in the game as it currently stands. |
Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
187
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 09:52:00 -
[189] - Quote
Hence in a perfect world. http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
349
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 13:54:00 -
[190] - Quote
EI Digin wrote: 6) Lastly, set any highsec mercs or alliances that enjoy fighting wars to orange. Marmite Collective, Whores in space, RvB, Eve Uni, etc.
If you've gotten this far and haven't filtered that player out, chances are that this player is wardeccable, and does most of their activities in highsec. Whether this individual is willing to sit in this corp after it is wardecced is a different story however. You end up filtering out the majority, if not all of the players in any given system.
So in short there's two groups of people. -those who don't mind or even enjoy being wardecced -those who don't like being wardecced and have therefore taken steps to make it unrewarding or impossible for the attacker to dec them
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
1469
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 13:58:00 -
[191] - Quote
I support consensual only wars. not in EVe, but in real life. That way all those Japanese aircraft would have hit an invisible barrier just outside of Pearl Harbor, and that would have been hilarious.
EVE needs more war, death and killing, not less. |
March rabbit
No Name No Pain
585
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 14:10:00 -
[192] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I support consensual only wars. not in EVe, but in real life. That way all those Japanese aircraft would have hit an invisible barrier just outside of Pearl Harbor, and that would have been hilarious. yea, or american nuclear bombs blew right on the airbase in USA
Jenn aSide wrote:EVE needs more war, death and killing, not less. agree. It's bad tho that some people to risk averse to accept wardecs and use decshields/etc and other players are so risk averse so they only wardec peaceful miners/industrials/bears/etc.... |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
191
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 14:56:00 -
[193] - Quote
EVE gets more World of War crack style everyday. Move level 3 and 4 missions to low, allow war dec's to follow players who bail fromp corp and prevent seasoned players from entering NPC corps.
EVE is a multiplayer game, people who disagree should pull out their net cable and play freelancer. Kugutsumen - My signature insures that my post is always read by an ISD or Dev, does yours? |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
511
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 14:59:00 -
[194] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:I imagine most PVP happens to pad KB with easy targets and if KB were removed most people who profess themselves to be PVPers would unsub and go play CoD or something instead.
Why should kill reports be removed? You do realize they serve purposes other than ego boosting, right?
If only they had a module that allowed you to scan a ship to see how it is fit.... Then we could remove the kill reports. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
511
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 15:02:00 -
[195] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:EVE gets more World of War crack style everyday. Move level 3 and 4 missions to low, allow war dec's to follow players who bail fromp corp and prevent seasoned players from entering NPC corps.
EVE is a multiplayer game, people who disagree should pull out their net cable and play freelancer.
Why do you want all the carebears to quit and bankrupt CCP?
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Angelic Resolution
The Arcanum
1
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 17:03:00 -
[196] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:EVE gets more World of War crack style everyday. Move level 3 and 4 missions to low, allow war dec's to follow players who bail fromp corp and prevent seasoned players from entering NPC corps.
EVE is a multiplayer game, people who disagree should pull out their net cable and play freelancer.
You may want to open up the Map, go to the Star Map tab, then Stars and under Statistics - you know, those things that CCP base their player count projections on - and click the "Average Pilots in space in the last 30 minutes".
I'll post a picture within 24 hours if you won't post one yourself. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
349
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 17:49:00 -
[197] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:I imagine most PVP happens to pad KB with easy targets and if KB were removed most people who profess themselves to be PVPers would unsub and go play CoD or something instead.
Why should kill reports be removed? You do realize they serve purposes other than ego boosting, right? If only they had a module that allowed you to scan a ship to see how it is fit.... Then we could remove the kill reports.
But then how would I know that I'm winning or losing at Eve? May as well take away the Wallet balance of an industrialist.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
631
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 18:31:00 -
[198] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:EVE gets more World of War crack style everyday. Move level 3 and 4 missions to low, allow war dec's to follow players who bail fromp corp and prevent seasoned players from entering NPC corps.
EVE is a multiplayer game, people who disagree should pull out their net cable and play freelancer. You do realize evasion of aggressors, which only exists because of another player's attempt to destroy your ship, is a form of multiplayer interaction, right? |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
583
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 18:48:00 -
[199] - Quote
Takseen wrote: So in short there's two groups of people. -those who don't mind or even enjoy being wardecced -those who don't like being wardecced and have therefore taken steps to make it unrewarding or impossible for the attacker to dec them
Nothing wrong with making it more difficult, it's the making it impossible that breaks the game, because then very few people are going to bother taking steps to make it unrewarding.
Angelic Resolution wrote: You may want to open up the Map, go to the Star Map tab, then Stars and under Statistics - you know, those things that CCP base their player count projections on - and click the "Average Pilots in space in the last 30 minutes".
How many of those players would dislike these changes? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1675
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 19:48:00 -
[200] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:EVE gets more World of War crack style everyday. Move level 3 and 4 missions to low, allow war dec's to follow players who bail fromp corp and prevent seasoned players from entering NPC corps.
EVE is a multiplayer game, people who disagree should pull out their net cable and play freelancer. Having decs follow pilots, or preventing those pilots from being in NPC corps will not result in those pilots participating in war. They will just log into an alt who is not at war, or if there are none, start a buddy account so they can create some that are not at war. Or just play a different game for the duration.
Again, you cannot force a player to log in.
People who do not like war not saying they do not like multiplayer games, they just do not want to participate in this one particular type of multiplayer interaction. Eve is such a wide open game that it has far far more ways of interaction. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3530
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 20:12:00 -
[201] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Angelic Resolution wrote: You may want to open up the Map, go to the Star Map tab, then Stars and under Statistics - you know, those things that CCP base their player count projections on - and click the "Average Pilots in space in the last 30 minutes".
How many of those players would dislike these changes? Making highsec safer? That's what highsec is all about ! I am a nullsec zealot. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
512
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 20:15:00 -
[202] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Making highsec safer? That's what highsec is all about !
I know this is intended to be sarcastic, but... well... yeah. Why not?
If you don't like safe space, don't be in high sec. |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
85
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 23:51:00 -
[203] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote: Making highsec safer? That's what highsec is all about !
I know this is intended to be sarcastic, but... well... yeah. Why not? If you don't like safe space, don't be in high sec.
Many players want it to be safe for them but unsafe for their targets...
So they don't go into low/null (where it would be unsafe for them), they stay in highsec where they feel safer and where the mission runners and miners think its safe and they make it unsafe.
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Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
85
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 23:58:00 -
[204] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:EVE gets more World of War crack style everyday. Move level 3 and 4 missions to low, allow war dec's to follow players who bail fromp corp and prevent seasoned players from entering NPC corps.
EVE is a multiplayer game, people who disagree should pull out their net cable and play freelancer. Having decs follow pilots, or preventing those pilots from being in NPC corps will not result in those pilots participating in war. They will just log into an alt who is not at war, or if there are none, start a buddy account so they can create some that are not at war. Or just play a different game for the duration. Again, you cannot force a player to log in. People who do not like war not saying they do not like multiplayer games, they just do not want to participate in this one particular type of multiplayer interaction. Eve is such a wide open game that it has far far more ways of interaction.
Have the wardec follow the pilot into the NPC corp. War deccer gets more targets and NPC corp players get to fleet with their NPC navy units in caps and supers and hot-drop the war deccer in highsec.
(I see no reason why the NPC navies can't light cynos in their own space, they control the cyno jammers).
This would introduce risk to the wardeccing party and isn't that what Eve is all about? Wardec a highsec corp, someone leaves that highsec corp and goes into an NPC corp and now you have a war with a highsec corp that can drop caps and supers on you. Risk. Eve. Pewpew.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3533
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 00:23:00 -
[205] - Quote
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Have the wardec follow the pilot into the NPC corp. War deccer gets more targets and NPC corp players get to fleet with their NPC navy units in caps and supers and hot-drop the war deccer in highsec.
(I see no reason why the NPC navies can't light cynos in their own space, they control the cyno jammers).
This would introduce risk to the wardeccing party and isn't that what Eve is all about? Wardec a highsec corp, someone leaves that highsec corp and goes into an NPC corp and now you have a war with a highsec corp that can drop caps and supers on you. Risk. Eve. Pewpew. Yes. A Caldari Navy slowcat fleet jumps in on your Caracal that just scrammed a "NPC corp" freighter.
Completely balanced, and makes highsec safer.
You know what, how about we DON'T have this, and when the bad guy shoots you, CONCORD shows up and wastes them? I am a nullsec zealot. |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
85
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 09:39:00 -
[206] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:Have the wardec follow the pilot into the NPC corp. War deccer gets more targets and NPC corp players get to fleet with their NPC navy units in caps and supers and hot-drop the war deccer in highsec.
(I see no reason why the NPC navies can't light cynos in their own space, they control the cyno jammers).
This would introduce risk to the wardeccing party and isn't that what Eve is all about? Wardec a highsec corp, someone leaves that highsec corp and goes into an NPC corp and now you have a war with a highsec corp that can drop caps and supers on you. Risk. Eve. Pewpew. Yes. A Caldari Navy slowcat fleet jumps in on your Caracal that just scrammed a "NPC corp" freighter. Completely balanced, and makes highsec safer. You know what, how about we DON'T have this, and when the bad guy shoots you, CONCORD shows up and wastes them?
Thats totally not what I'm talking about and you know it.
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Deriah Book
Fox Clan The Brotherhood Alliance
25
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 16:30:00 -
[207] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:
Corps like yours are not the issue. Its corps of people who have found that a confrontational interaction with another person, even one mediated by a computer game, causes stress that they do not like. For such people adrenaline leaves them feeling drained and maybe even sick. Not a desirable thing to happen in an activity you do for fun. Apparently corps of such players are the defender in 70% to 80% of all wars in eve. To me this indicate that stress adverse players are not some tiny group, but a fairly large segment of the player base. These wars are not the strong preying on the weak, its the adrenaline lovers preying on the adrenaline haters. The adrenaline haters are doing exactly what you would expect: Avoiding adrenaline.
I'm late to the troll party, aren't I...
Just in case I'm not, we have a corpie who suffers those exact symptoms. He comes to visit for 1-3 weeks every 4-5 months. Eventually, Eve start to affect his health and he leaves again. Even this person I'm referencing wouldn't consider taking the violent PVP out of any segment of Eve. (He comes to visit because we are friends.)
Speaking plainly, if you have this response to any game or activity, then it's not for you. Eve can't be for everybody and that's why everybody you know isn't playing Eve. Think of it like a race track. You have an adrenaline aversion but you hear a lot about racing so you go to give it a try. After hitting the pace you realize that it is too much for you and you are starting to feel ill. (Which happens from time to time at the racetrack, btw.) Do you then ask everyone to slow down for your sake? Or do you rent a caravan and take a nice drive along a mountain road that follows a creek? And if you do ask everyone to slow down and drive leisurely and they do, then what has happened to racing? Is it so important to not have the option of racing at your local track because it doesn't suit you?
When I used the term intangible earlier I was referring to the true sandbox nature of Eve in some way. Eve is hard. Not only because it's complex, but it's harsh, as well. It's as if psychopaths sign up for the game in droves. That is the nature of Eve, and it is the beauty of Eve. It is what makes Eve unique. Taking that away, even if only in 0.0, will destroy Eve.
I would much rather see 4 beginner regions where no violent PVP takes place. They would have isolated markets and one way gates. No player outside the regions could come in. The gate wouldn't even show up in space. Eve could make it clear that once you leave a certain boundary you are then in the game proper and there is no going back. Mature characters could petition to be returned to beginner space under the condition that that toon will never, ever have the option of returning to the main game. I'm sure it would be very helpful to have veterans helping new players learn the ins and outs of the game mechanic. At least in a manner like this, if you really, really must play Eve, but can't stand being shot at, you can still play.
As far as how to reward peaceful corps for engaging in wardecs.... well, I've been thinking about it for a few days and have not come up with one idea that's any better than anything that's already been stated. That's a tough nut to crack without ending up with a mechanic that eventually be as broken as the wardec system.
That being said, I find it rather fun to go mine in Wspace for a week knowing that the wardeccing alliance is wasting money. Any option in a wardec, whether it be fighting, or hiding, or just logging off, is all a part of the game. You take your chances in any decision you make. Offensive or defensive. |
Knorkor
Spartan Advanced Mining Infinite Aggression
22
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 16:38:00 -
[208] - Quote
As much as I hate high sec wars, I am against it.
Eve is a harsh place and should remain it. |
Spetznak Sokarad
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 17:19:00 -
[209] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:EVE gets more World of War crack style everyday. Move level 3 and 4 missions to low, allow war dec's to follow players who bail fromp corp and prevent seasoned players from entering NPC corps.
EVE is a multiplayer game, people who disagree should pull out their net cable and play freelancer. Why do you want all the carebears to quit and bankrupt CCP?
you keep spewing this as if it is a fact.... ever occur to you that many carebears would just adapt and continue forward?
as far as yourself --- if you quit, you wouldnt be missed. you play this game as the role of an npc bot anyways.
QUIT eating the sand. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3535
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 19:17:00 -
[210] - Quote
Spetznak Sokarad wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:EVE gets more World of War crack style everyday. Move level 3 and 4 missions to low, allow war dec's to follow players who bail fromp corp and prevent seasoned players from entering NPC corps.
EVE is a multiplayer game, people who disagree should pull out their net cable and play freelancer. Why do you want all the carebears to quit and bankrupt CCP? you keep spewing this as if it is a fact.... ever occur to you that many carebears would just adapt and continue forward? as far as yourself --- if you quit, you wouldnt be missed. you play this game as the role of an npc bot anyways. QUIT eating the sand. Adapt and continue forward, is this a joke? Clearly not - they'd play the unsub card !!
EVE is dying !!! I am a nullsec zealot. |
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