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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Signal11th
85
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Posted - 2011.10.12 08:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:This thread is like a magnet for bad ideas about fixing a problem that doesn't really exist.
^^This
Christ I can't believe people are still moaning about this!!, If it's AFK then you're in no danger only the danger your perceive to be there if their not AFK then they are doing their job!
What's the problem?
It's actually one of the ships that fits the role perfectly.
Basically all the people who complain about this, just go and live in a wormhole for a month or so and then come back to 0.0 and you'll then wonder what the fuss is all about. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
86
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Posted - 2011.10.12 13:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mistress Motion wrote:Tippia wrote:Mistress Motion wrote:Or am I missing something here? Yes: how the lack of local means that there is no such thing as GÇ£AFK cloakingGÇ¥ in w-space, and that. Just wanted to point out that it's not really same to be in WH anyway, since you can spam dscan and find probes when someone is after you. And in nullsec if there's someone coming to 'your' sanctum, he/she won't need a single probe for that.
You're missing the point of what I meant, if you live in a WH you lose your fear of a cloaky because you always assume there is one always there. This said people in Wormholes always manage to work on as normal and you don;t need probes to visit the sleeper sites either.
I lived in WH space for a little time and I must admit I wasn't a great fan but it did show how baseless these AFK CLOAKING MUST BE FIXED arguments are because there is already a slice of EVE that lives with cloakies AND no local and they prefer it that way. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
86
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Posted - 2011.10.12 13:16:00 -
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I must admit I'm sort of leaning towards Ingvar's solution with a couple of tweaks but I would prefer local being removed completely from 0.0 with the addition of better/newer scanning tools God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
86
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Posted - 2011.10.12 13:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rico Rage wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Tippia wrote:Rico Rage wrote:What about a new type of probes, that allows you to scan down cloaked ships? It immediately raises the question: why is that needed? They need something to replace what nature failed to dangle between their legs. Why the teenage angst at a constructive post? I fail to see where I started a thread, or even whined about the cloaky issues. I merely offered a solution to the issue many players identify in EVE. Can you tell us, in your perhaps limited interwebz vocabulary, why the idea is bad? Fail troll.
How many people actually complain about AFK cloaking in EVE, take that the amount of people who are "forum warriors" is a very small percentage of the actual EVE players and then it's the usual same 10-15 people who complain about it I would say it's not really a big issue.
As CCP have said it's a role that works perfectly and they have no plans to change it. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
86
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Posted - 2011.10.12 13:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
DaSumpf wrote:If you have a problem with cloakies in your carebear system you really should reconsider if 0.0 is the right place for you. If you cant live with the risks in 0.0 go to empire. Your choice.
How to deal with them cloakies :
Get organised ! Always be in a gang and on comms. Park ur 2 bil tengu or mach and get in a cheap ship (drake) if you think you need to carebear. Fit a (covert) cyno on your bait ship and have a counter ready when they try dropping you. Get urself in a cloakie ship and cloak in your enemies systems. Counter (hotdrop) them.
But pls, stop whining ! 0.0 - you choice.
Just my opinion.
^^ This
Rico, I've spent time down your area with ROL I spent time in Fountain before the Goon invasion hell count Delve,Syndicate, Etherum Reach and other places and how many AFK cloakers have I seen......2, and 1 got popped after 3 days. Christ you travel through 0.0 and are lucky if you can count 30 people through 40 systems.
AFK cloaking is not the problem it's players aversion to having to work for isk or supposedly living in the dangerous space that is known as 0.0 but don't actually want it to be "that" dangerous. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
87
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Posted - 2011.10.12 13:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:Your problem seems to be with the fact that you cannot, ever, guarantee safety in EVE. This is an intended feature.
No-one is asking for guarenetted safety, what is been asked for is that an AFKer can't disable a whole system. A decent player will pop his head up every few hours so you never know when he is there or not! If they did the same thing while at the keyboard, so they are putting the effort in, then it would be fine. The problem here is that a single player can block 1 system per account 23/7, particually if he is an alliance with a cap fleet. Keeping an escort AND cap fleet online and ready 23.5/7 just isn't going to happen!
And yes there are other occupations that make more that have lower risk. Hence why so many people are giving up on null-sec.... of course then you complain you have no targets. Risk vs reward needs to be there and this is (a major factor) making Null-sec simply not worth the risk.
[/quote]
All that and all I saw was "We are too scared to lose a ship" If you can't defend your system correctly either with cyno jammers or defense fleets or half a dozen more ideas that you can use you really don't deserve your space.
Try living in a npc space where you have neuts in your system 24/7 guess what I'm still making money maybe not as fast as a sanctum runner but you can still make cash, Drake cheap fit rat earn isk job done.
You talk about risk vs reward?? Well I have no sanctums hardly any sites and the 2 plexes I have found in the last 3 weeks have yeilded nothing all the while dealing with neuts in the system pretty much most of the time. I managed why can't you? God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
87
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Posted - 2011.10.12 13:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Let's keep this topic about the issue of AFK cloaking and keep the wormhole or NPC region stuff out of it. That dives into far many off topic discussions.
not really people are saying "AFK cloakers" are holding their system to ransom because basically people can't rat and earn isk, all I said that there are more difficult areas in EVE that people have the same issue in yet still manage to cope without moaning. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
87
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Posted - 2011.10.12 13:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:AFK cloakers can prevent anomalies from despawning, therefore eliminating high-level anomalies entirely, from systems just by being there AFK. I know. I do it.
So the argument that AFK cloakers cannot do anything while AFK is a false one.
Very true and this should be fixed although it's only one site per cloaky, should be fixed but still doesn't stop the entire system sites appearing. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
87
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Posted - 2011.10.12 14:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:What bugs me about AFK cloakers is that i know they are there but i cannot find them to kill them.. i want to kill them! Boils my blood when theres a troll laughing at me and i cannot smack it in the kisser. I admit that removing local as we know it will help mitigate this.
Still have a problem with anomaly denial though... it is like i said it is. CCP cannot fix that, so they say its an "accepted tactic".
Broken Science i tell you...
I think one of the CSM is going to bring that up again can't remember which one maybe viper. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
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Posted - 2011.10.12 14:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:The AFK cloaker will be able to get in and even if someone watches him come in he will be able to remain cloaked and then as usual come in for the hotdrop with no warning from Dscan.. Hell why am I even discussing this again? Removing local is of want of free ganks that ought to be obvious. Instead of discussing silly solutions that wreck nullsec such as removing local we need to discuss ways to remove the incentive to go AFK while cloaked while not ruining active cloaking operations. Let's try posting it again, since you seem to have missed relatively important parts... 1. When a ship cloaks, it disappears from local. You can't see it anymore, you have nothing to be afraid of, right? 2. When a ship cloaks, it also loses access to local. You lose the free intel of being able to sit there while cloaked at a safe seeing who's in system or not. You want more intel? Simply... use probes, use dscan, fly your lazy ass around and see who's where. In addition. when cloaked you can no longer be "warped to". 3. When you decloak, there should be a delay in being able to fire off a cyno. This balances the "invisible in local" thing, giving the poor bastard you're surprising at least a fighting chance to soil himself and run away. That would affect active cloaking! I want to target just the inactive cloakers. An active cloaker ought to be able to keep active and watch for prey to do somthing stupid and hotdrop on them. Being active at the computer ought to be rewarded with good kills not nerfed to hell and back to fix AFK cloaking. My solution removes the incentive to be away from the keyboard while cloaked. That is what I am targeting with my suggestion.
That is the problem in reality the only difference between an active cloaker and an inactive cloaker is in your mind, you basically want something to say in large letters "This neut is not active, rat on " God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
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Signal11th
87
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Posted - 2011.10.12 14:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:The funny thing is that people dont wan't "AFK Cloakies" around so THEY can AFK mine.
However... I Still have not seen anyone be able to prove when someone is AFK versus patiently waiting. If they are AFK, how do they know when to attack you?
One we get some proof that everyone is AFK, then we can work on a solution for it.
You sir win this thread with one response, I salute you! God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
87
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Posted - 2011.10.12 15:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Apart from the anon respawn issue still no one has given this thread one good reason why it needs to be looked at?
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
87
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Posted - 2011.10.12 18:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Rico Rage wrote: I understand your point and agree that intel gathering should be a viable use for cloakies. I would have found it very unusual for my suggestion not to have overlooked something in a world as large as EVE.
However, you do understand the concern here though, right? If you can help come up with a solution to the AFK cloaky issue that would not affect intel gathering from active players, by all means, please offer your ideas. I do think that this is something that CCP will eventually tackle, as it is one of those tactics that requires very little investment for such a large payoff for the cloaky pilot. I think that aside from wormhole space intel gathering, the idea has merit.
I'm all for being a cloaky pilot and doing the stalking thing if you're active behind your keyboard, I'm not so cool with the "lololol I can sit here all day and you can't kill me unless I'm too dumb to know a bait ship when I see it" mechanics presently in place when a cloaky sits afk in system.
Nothing in EVE should be risk free. I'm already dissapointed that people can carebear it up in high sec, but even they risk getting blown up. Cloaky pilots should suffer the same risks for the intel/ganks they intend to gain.
Well, I think this idea does it pretty well... 1. When a ship cloaks, it disappears from local. This is balanced by #2. 2. When a ship cloaks, it also loses access to local. You lose the free intel of being able to sit there while cloaked at a safe seeing who's in system or not. You want more intel? Simply... use probes, use dscan, fly your lazy ass around and see who's where. This makes intel gathering, while cloaked, into and active endeavour, not unlike how it currently is in wormholes. Also, while cloaked, you cannot be used as a "warp to" target. You're intentionally cutting yourself off from everyone else after all. 3. When you decloak, there should be a delay in being able to fire off a cyno. This also balances the "invisible in local" thing, giving the poor bastard you're surprising at least a fighting chance to soil himself and run away. It doesn't affect intel gathering in systems with local for uncloaked ships. It makes intel more interactive for cloaked vessels. It allows cloaked vessels to be truly cloaked by not having them show in local. It balances the more effective invisibility by giving opponents a little more escape time if the intent is to light a cyno or have a fleet warp on top of the cloaked vessel. It still allows the cloaked vessel itself to engage the target if it wishes without penalty.
+1 from me God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
92
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Posted - 2011.10.13 07:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Personally although I don't even see a problem with it I would choose Ingvars solution over any of the others.
I went to bed last night and come back to work in the morning and I can't believe that the people moaning about AFK cloaking (4 from what I can see) are still banging on about it compared to the other 100+ post telling them to stop wasting our time.
Just because you moan louder and then when that doesn't work moan even LOUDER doesn't mean anything will get done because the majority of people on the forums are happy with the way it works.
Apply for the CSM on the basis of nerfing cloaking and I'll run for CSM for it to be left alone and I bet you I get more support! Now getting rid of local is a different argument! God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
94
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Posted - 2011.10.13 11:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:If my plan interferes with you then so be it. Because just about any other plan would SERIOUSLY impact active cloaking.
How would you like to be watching a POS and then decloak because you forgot to refuel the cloak fuel? POS guns say hai and you lose your shiny ship. How would you like to suddenly decloak from a "Solar effect" or other system? I will support them over nothing being done but I feel my plan has the best chance to have the least impact on active cloaking.
Please for the love of GOD no more I can't take it anymore, put a proposal in CSM forums and I'll even sign it for you if it will stop your posting on this subject! God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
99
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Posted - 2011.10.13 18:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:Lyris Nairn wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:All i've seen in this thread are ratters scared of the contacts in local, and the "pvpers" who think its impossible to hide without a cloaking device. Both pathetic. You didn't notice those of us who are saying that this isn't an issue? So those would have no problem with cloaking detection mechanics, however hard and troublesome they might be, with or without local? If so i apologize to those, because you stand in the same position as i do. Yeah, I don't care about this issue at all. I mean, I care enough to post in a thread about it but that's mostly for the entertainment value of watching people talk themselves in circles of cognitive dissonance. Whatever change that does or does not happen, competent people will adapt and incompetent people will whine on the forums.
Wow impressive use of fancy words just to say "I don't give a ****" Linguistic skills paying those bills! God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
101
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Posted - 2011.10.14 07:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ahh, This thread is a gift that just keeps on giving. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
102
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Posted - 2011.10.14 11:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kitty McKitty wrote:You need a problem before you suggest a solution to it. What is the problem?
This is exactly the point? To find a solution to "AFK cloaking" you need to have a problem! CCP and around 350 posts on here say there is no problem with AFK cloaking so your posts are completely pointless (not yours Kitty).
The only problem I have seen with it is the ability to stop a site from spawning , but how many people does that affect probably less than 0.5% of the EVE population. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Signal11th
102
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Posted - 2011.10.14 11:33:00 -
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The Apostle wrote:3 quick posts from 3 different dudes saying "what problem?"
This is so totally a figment of our imagination that it simply doesn't warrant post #23072350972450289837650208572 on the topic.
It wasn't, isn't and never has been an issue.
You're 100% correct. You can leave now.
Tbh Apostle I've only been posting to see if I can get this thread to 1000 posts, after the first two pages the rest of it is bascially saying the same thing. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
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