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Jezala
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Posted - 2005.07.19 22:30:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: Jezala
Are you saying that the boost to convoy drops and loot in general is still not enough to offset the risks in 0.0 for you.
What kind of rewards would make it worth the effort to suffer the the current 0.0 risk (for those not in alliances)? How about doubling the mineral drops and increasing the frequency of faction loot? Well I happen to agree with you, if the current rewards are still not enough to offset the 0.0 risks then CCP should consider increasing the rewards...perhaps by two or three-folds.
Let me explain how I see this from non-alliance player point of view. No matter how high the rewards are in 0.0, it means only more strength in the hands of 0.0 players and nothing to me. Why? Because I won't be lucky enough to get to those rewards. I, for example, have no 0.0 base of operations, so I have no "my own" 0.0 territory. Between me and 0.0 are a doezn of low sec gank systems. And in order to get something from 0.0 rewards I'll have to go all this way in a battleship. How high are my chances of getting there (considering that PvP and NPC setups are not the same). Then I'll have to hunt NPC's in 0.0 and then go back to the empire through the very same gank systems. I estimate my chances of returning back in my ship and not to my clone are pretty slim.
So I'll put the question to you agian, this time without any sarcasm:
What would draw you out into 0.0 and make you take the risk of running pirate blockades and alliance's patrols?
What type of reward must there be for you to say to yourself that it's worth getting losing a battleship and waking up in the clone bay every now and then?
What type of goal would pull you into fringes of Empire space and into 0.0, to establish relationships with those corps residing in the 0.0 region, and maybe eventually establishing a little bit of territory (aka POS) to operate in 0.0?
CCP can't very well push you into 0.0 (well they could). In addition, they can't punish those corps/alliances already established out there. So the best they can do is provide the right incentives to pull you into there. It may be true that the current incentives are not enough, so let them know what would work.
BTW, there are some 0.0 regions on the fringes of empire space that are not openly hostile to neutrals. These regions tend to be unclaimed and somewhat safe...sort of...depending who's camping what gate at what time of day.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.19 22:36:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Larsson7
Originally by: Cylynex Yes - the rewards are fantastic. Just last night a corp mate and I received 14 mil Trit and 4.5 Mil Pye from a spawn. In the last two months I have probably got a total of 100 Mil Trit, 20 Mil Pye, 10 Mil Mex and 7 Mil Iso.
The fact still remains also that these cargos can be very difficult to move and very dangerous. 0.0 residents should be rewarded with better spawns than Empire residents. Is it too much? Perhaps - yet I do not program the drops.
Just want to say I live in .0 I also have gotten these spawns. They are complete b**S** if you ask me.
YOUR OWN WORDS "100 Mil Trit, 20 Mil Pye, 10 Mil Mex and 7 Mil Iso" In last Month. Now if this was the only thing you were getting that fine but this is simply a side benifit. Do you have any idea what so ever how long it would take to mine this amount of minerals? I really dont give a rats ass how far you had to haul it. I mine .0 all the time hauling the mins is just something you have to do part of the life of .0. And really isn't any more dangerious than flyin around in about anything.
The simple fact is that these spawns are complete fubar.
IF they want to give a reward some hugh isk hauls would be fine least then you spend the isk on the market keeping it turning.
Personally I think the hugh number of t1 goods that rats drop is also bs as it again does nothing other than goof up t1 manufacturers prices. Now hugh min drops to goof up miners jobs.
Super ccp.
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Uggster
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Posted - 2005.07.20 01:12:00 -
[63]
So many of the OMG Nerf 0.0 calls are being made by those that have either never made it past the first gate into 0.0 or never been there at all.
Next time you go to buy anything, anywhere, in empire roll a dice and if it comes up as a 1 buy the item, if it's a 6 buy it and then donate 50% of the cost of the item to the person you just bought it from.
If it's any other number then dont buy and go to a differant reigion to look for it there, repeat the dice trick but if you roll a 6 donate 200% of the item cost this time.
And thats just normal kit.
0.0 has rewards cos it has problems (or challenges you could say if you ran management training courses) It's how you and your corpies and other denizens of the area deal with these problems that the possible creation of wealth lies.
It does not matter if thats a huge mining op where the best miners mine, haulers haul, tankers tank etc or a BS pilot and a guy in a frigate killing spawns and splitting nice loot for cash and metables to replace all the ships you can lose if you dont concentrate all the bloody time.
Also my first time out in 0.0 I learned to take on multi-cruiser and frig spawns in a caracal, I made 10's of millions a day in kills and loot (serpentis loot like named hybrids, blasters and top of the range armor repairers) and if I lost a ship which happened loads in fact I would make another with the refined loot.
0.0 means thinking about how to get the max out of it and not just waiting to get things handed to you on a plate.
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2005.07.20 01:34:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Goberth Ludwig on 20/07/2005 01:34:30 Erm is it me or people in this thread expect 0.0 to be tweaked so they can just walk in, make teir isk alone, and walk out?
0.0 IS NOT FOR SOLO FFS
U complain allainces will shot u? Join them or come to agreements with them. Stop going on as alliances where some elite associations of nerd who want to keep it all for themselves.
On the other hand, if you expect to just step in, rake your iskies and give nothing back - if its too much for you to abid by rules other have made then back to the veld...
And about the risks of 0.0 read my previous reply, its not about the risks of being blown up its about the risk of being kicked out/losing control.
- Gob |
OffBeaT
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Posted - 2005.07.20 01:52:00 -
[65]
its about time we started getting somthing out here worth our risk for it.
if them empire wimps wona hang out safe and risk nothing i say so let them, but they dont get rich for it and they should not be doing better the guys like me who risk it all evry move i make out here in 00 systems. at lest im out here for a reason now.
you couldnt keep your mouth shut about it could you..
huh? nerf on the way.
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.07.20 02:44:00 -
[66]
Quote: IF they want to give a reward some hugh isk hauls would be fine least then you spend the isk on the market keeping it turning.
Inflation ?
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Arain
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Posted - 2005.07.20 03:42:00 -
[67]
Honestly I don't begrudge them the drops in 0.0 space, but I sure wish they could have felt the same way about the drops and bounties from missions. Because it was thier whineing that got those nerfed. All the "its unfair that they can kill BSs in secure space posts" that got the level 4 missions nerfed to hell. It really bugs me that the designers of this game listen to players *****ing about other players haveing fun doing whatever happens to be the current hot item. And always sideing with the 0.0 crowd. There is no balance in this game at all.
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Allen Deckard
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Posted - 2005.07.20 03:45:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Kerby Lane
Quote: IF they want to give a reward some hugh isk hauls would be fine least then you spend the isk on the market keeping it turning.
Inflation ?
Soooo instead of inflation we give away free product putting miners out of work. Yah thats alot better.
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.07.20 03:58:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Allen Deckard
Originally by: Kerby Lane
Quote: IF they want to give a reward some hugh isk hauls would be fine least then you spend the isk on the market keeping it turning.
Inflation ?
Soooo instead of inflation we give away free product putting miners out of work. Yah thats alot better.
I will cry now Have you seen too many miners who mine veldspar and scordite in 0.0 for profit ? Or you scared that convois of industrials full of trit will go to empire and flood the markets ?
I dont think 0.0 trit will compete with empire one tbh
It is just drop in the ocean and the 100 mils of trit for the short period was just luck.
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Trepkos
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Posted - 2005.07.20 04:01:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Galk Yep.
They were posting about this the other week.... 50 million droped trit there... 65k zyd here ect....
While everybody in the empire is having to grind there minerals to build... seems the jocks in 0.0 atm are getting it droped in their laps for free.... leaving them time to do other things.
Ofcourse.. like nobody is gona scream 'nerf' it are they
I don't see the balance here.... surely if you want the highend content, if your empire or 0.0..
Awww man! Does that mean that I will actually leave empire to get the good stuff. Geez CCP what are you trying to do to me and Galk.
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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2005.07.20 04:10:00 -
[71]
Edited by: HUGO DRAX on 20/07/2005 04:13:21 man I see what you mean I blew up some of them and there is so much mineral I just cannot take it all in my thorax. I will have to park my industrial nearby so I can cart the stuff back. They need to increase the thorax cargospace to 2000m3 so cruiser pilots can cart all the minerals back.
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Dufas
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Posted - 2005.07.20 07:20:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Moghydin I simply must add some extra whine to this :) Someone on these forums said that missions were stupid because the safest systems in Eve are daily invaded by legions of pirates. The same goes here. How come that the most dangerous systems of Eve are flooded by haulers and transports with huge amounts of minerals?
cheese anyone?
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Xelios
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Posted - 2005.07.20 07:28:00 -
[73]
Putting miners out of work? Who hauls 50 mil trit to empire to sell it? Chances are they'll haul it to one of their 0.0 stations, if that, and use it to build things. If that 50 mil trit didn't drop from a convoy they'd go out and mine it if they have to. As for zydrine and other high end minerals "putting miners out of work", there's a huge shortage of high end minerals on the market right now, clearly the miners can't keep up with the demand.
That said I think the drops were fine before, when you'd get maybe 10 mil trit from an entire convoy, not 50. Then again I haven't had time to do much npc hunting since the last patch, so I have no idea if the risk is much higher now than it was before.
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Hans Roaming
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Posted - 2005.07.20 09:02:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Moghydin
Originally by: Jezala
Are you saying that the boost to convoy drops and loot in general is still not enough to offset the risks in 0.0 for you.
What kind of rewards would make it worth the effort to suffer the the current 0.0 risk (for those not in alliances)? How about doubling the mineral drops and increasing the frequency of faction loot? Well I happen to agree with you, if the current rewards are still not enough to offset the 0.0 risks then CCP should consider increasing the rewards...perhaps by two or three-folds.
Let me explain how I see this from non-alliance player point of view. No matter how high the rewards are in 0.0, it means only more strength in the hands of 0.0 players and nothing to me. Why? Because I won't be lucky enough to get to those rewards. I, for example, have no 0.0 base of operations, so I have no "my own" 0.0 territory. Between me and 0.0 are a doezn of low sec gank systems. And in order to get something from 0.0 rewards I'll have to go all this way in a battleship. How high are my chances of getting there (considering that PvP and NPC setups are not the same). Then I'll have to hunt NPC's in 0.0 and then go back to the empire through the very same gank systems. I estimate my chances of returning back in my ship and not to my clone are pretty slim.
Have you ever tried it? Negotiate with alliances, get your corp to join one, join Interstellar Starbase Syndicate as they are for small to mid sized corps and have negotiated access to FIX space and claim 3 system, some in Providence. Hey you could even come to dip your toe in CVA space as you are free to travel. Low sec systems that tend to be gank camps are at the choke points from Empire to low sec, not every one. You can use travel setup to get to station next to 0.0 and change to NPC, talk to me in game if you want to try out 0.0 where we are, will even escort you about for a bit until you get your confidence.
To all the people in Empire looking at us 0.0 players as if we own it all and you can never join the club, remember we all started out the same in a noob frigate doing the training missions and mining with our noob laser to get our first 10 - 20k.
WTS: Male, 37, single, can fly starships, build rockets and dance Salsa. WTB: Female, plays eve, lives near London UK |
babyblue
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Posted - 2005.07.20 09:18:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Xelios Putting miners out of work? Who hauls 50 mil trit to empire to sell it? Chances are they'll haul it to one of their 0.0 stations, if that, and use it to build things. If that 50 mil trit didn't drop from a convoy they'd go out and mine it if they have to. As for zydrine and other high end minerals "putting miners out of work", there's a huge shortage of high end minerals on the market right now, clearly the miners can't keep up with the demand.
That said I think the drops were fine before, when you'd get maybe 10 mil trit from an entire convoy, not 50. Then again I haven't had time to do much npc hunting since the last patch, so I have no idea if the risk is much higher now than it was before.
Indeed, I was expecting Zydrine to go down in price after the patch, but at Yulai it's holding steady at around 4k.
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csebal
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Posted - 2005.07.20 09:27:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Moghydin I'm not a miner, but this thing is a joke. Miners in empire have to grind rocks for days to get this amount of minerals and PvPers are getting it for free. And yes, suddenly it's silence. No one is whining against un-balanced loot and nerfing. If they can get millions of minerals for free, why can't mission runners get officer spawnes that drop faction loot in missions?
People forget, that being in 0.0 is not the privilege you got in empire, but a right you have to aquire for yourself with steel and blood most of the time.
People forget, that those hauler spawns are not found next to the station, but deep in 0.0, many jumps from the nearest station in some cases.
People forget, that by just being there and living there, you take more risk, than the average empire joe will ever do.
I see people complaining, that 'OMG my lvl4 agents suxx, lets nerf everything else as well'. Pathetic isnt it? FYI: NPCing will not give you faction ships as loot, like agent missions do. FYI: NPCing is called PvE, not PvP. Most PVP people only NPC for the named loot to fit on their ships and the bounty to pay for their clone. They are not manufacturers, hence they usually are the last ones to see the use of 50 mil trit.
Finally, having a hauler spawn with 25 millions of anything is a logistical nightmare. I hated them even when they only dropped 4-8 mils at a time, as that also meant several LONG trips in the hauler to get to the nearest office. I havent seen any new haulers since the patch - been quite busy PvPin ya know - but i would probably pod myself rather than to haul 25 millions of tritanium from the end of nowhere to our manufacturing base.
20-30k zyd.. thats nice indeed, but 90% of the time, its just the usual xx millions of trit, xx millions of pyerite. --- This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of the HUN Corporation in any way. ---
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.07.20 09:27:00 -
[77]
its going to need players undecutting the 4k mark to say 3.8k per unit to get it lower
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.07.20 09:46:00 -
[78]
Originally by: sonofollo its going to need players undecutting the 4k mark to say 3.8k per unit to get it lower
Resellers are the reason the prices stay high. Until volumes are much higher then resellers will keep the prices inflated. ______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
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