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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3323
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Posted - 2013.01.16 10:11:00 -
[151] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Yeah, I'm delusional about the roams that happen every day, about the fact that on average we spend less than ten minutes at any given time sitting on a titan, and that we have quite an extensive list of reds that's longer than the list of blues. EDIT: Huh, we should probably take care of that, looks like it was updated today. We have a leak it seems. Great! Than u dont need Titans and jump drives to actually have fun if u r already used to roams. Leave those for tactical deployments and defending your assets and not jumping on ppl whenever and wherever u want. Who the hell are you to tell us how to use our titans and jump portals? Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Kinis Deren
EVE University Ivy League
133
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Posted - 2013.01.16 10:20:00 -
[152] - Quote
Very good post OP, I enjoyed reading it and think it is a valuable contribution on the ongoing debate over power projection.
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Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
255
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Posted - 2013.01.16 10:26:00 -
[153] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Yeah, I'm delusional about the roams that happen every day, about the fact that on average we spend less than ten minutes at any given time sitting on a titan, and that we have quite an extensive list of reds that's longer than the list of blues. EDIT: Huh, we should probably take care of that, looks like it was updated today. We have a leak it seems. Great! Than u dont need Titans and jump drives to actually have fun if u r already used to roams. Leave those for tactical deployments and defending your assets and not jumping on ppl whenever and wherever u want. Who the hell are you to tell us how to use our titans and jump portals?
I am not telling "you". I am telling how it should be :D as many others who recognized this problem and are posting contineously on the forums about it. |
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CCP Gargant
C C P C C P Alliance
355
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Posted - 2013.01.16 10:28:00 -
[154] - Quote
Cleaned the thread up a bit. Keep it dapper, everyone. CCP Gargant | Community Representative | EVE Illuminati |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3324
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 10:29:00 -
[155] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:I am not telling "you". I am telling how it should be :D as many others who recognized this problem and are posting contineously on the forums about it. You haven't actually stated what the problem is with jump drives. They're working as intended. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
671
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 10:41:00 -
[156] - Quote
I think mynnna is massively overstating the impact of a JDC nerf - I use midpoints in hostile 0.0 on a regular basis and the risk is not nearly as high as he claims.
The only major drawback is that you cannot jump a jf around solo but need to bring a carrier along to cap it up. so it can move on without delay.
Moving carriers through hostile space is nearly risk free (choose empty system for midpoint, place cyno ship at a safe, initiate self-destruct, light cyno and jump as ~10s are left on the self-destruct timer, log off cyno alt, cloak up carrier until you have regenerated enough capacitor to leave). I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
255
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 10:45:00 -
[157] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:I am not telling "you". I am telling how it should be :D as many others who recognized this problem and are posting contineously on the forums about it. You haven't actually stated what the problem is with jump drives. They're working as intended.
They are working as itended, as POSes as everything else that needs iteration. But the effect those mechanics have are not healthy for eve. And thus CCP i changing them by nerfing, buffing or removing them completely.
And i stated what the problem is. Force projection = Too easy |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3324
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 10:47:00 -
[158] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:They are working as itended, as POSes as everything else that needs iteration. But the effect those mechanics have are not healthy for eve. And thus CCP i changing them by nerfing, buffing or removing them completely. No, those things are not working as intended.
Zloco Crendraven wrote:And i stated what the problem is. Force projection = Too easy It's supposed to be fairly easy. That's why it was made the way it was. If it's too easy, you have to explain what it's too easy for. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
255
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 10:55:00 -
[159] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:They are working as itended, as POSes as everything else that needs iteration. But the effect those mechanics have are not healthy for eve. And thus CCP i changing them by nerfing, buffing or removing them completely. No, those things are not working as intended. Zloco Crendraven wrote:And i stated what the problem is. Force projection = Too easy It's supposed to be fairly easy. That's why it was made the way it was. If it's too easy, you have to explain what it's too easy for.
Yes they are, they are working as CCP wanted them to work so it was as intended. POSes got to much complicated same as force projection became a game killer. Force projection = to easy... if u red what i and many others were writing u might even understand it.
U can jump to far to quick. Add timers, nerf ranges, put a mass limit, whatever.
As i ve written how should it work. Leave the ranges as they are but add a cooldown compared to how much u jump. If u jump to max range u get a substantial cooldown and viceversa. |
tgl3
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
239
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 10:58:00 -
[160] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:FourierTransformer wrote:Yes only CFC, HBC, Solar, etc. have any right to discuss jump drives. Never mind that everyone from WH to NPC 0.0 uses carriers and JF's all the damn time. Tell me more about WH corps using jump drives. Gotta get that fuel into the nullsec connection somehow... I write a blog. I think people read it. http://throughnewbeyes.wordpress.com
Mate |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3324
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 11:01:00 -
[161] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:Force projection = to easy... if u red what i and many others were writing u might even understand it. All I've read is you saying that it's too easy, without explaining why it's too easy or why it's a problem.
Zloco Crendraven wrote:U can jump to far to quick. Add timers, nerf ranges, put a mass limit, whatever. And you still haven't explained why jumping as far as we can is TOO far, or why as quickly as it is is TOO quickly.
I could just as easily say "frigates warp too fast, they can travel 120 AU in 20 seconds, that's far too fast" but you obviously wouldn't be satisfied because just telling me how fast it is doesn't explain why that's too fast or what problem it causes. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
255
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 11:16:00 -
[162] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Force projection = to easy... if u red what i and many others were writing u might even understand it. All I've read is you saying that it's too easy, without explaining why it's too easy or why it's a problem. Zloco Crendraven wrote:U can jump to far to quick. Add timers, nerf ranges, put a mass limit, whatever. And you still haven't explained why jumping as far as we can is TOO far, or why as quickly as it is is TOO quickly. I could just as easily say "frigates warp too fast, they can travel 120 AU in 20 seconds, that's far too fast" but you obviously wouldn't be satisfied because just telling me how fast it is doesn't explain why that's too fast or what problem it causes.
Ahm because is a game killer for majority of EVE?
It is same when u all Goonies shouted out loud for nerfing SCs and Titans and still they were working as intended. But not as u intended ofc.
Frigates warping to fast, is not a gamebreaker. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3324
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 11:40:00 -
[163] - Quote
Okay, so we're getting somewhere. Now you explain what part of the game it's breaking and how it's being broken. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1012
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 11:42:00 -
[164] - Quote
Oh neat this thread again. |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
255
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 12:22:00 -
[165] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Okay, so we're getting somewhere. Now you explain what part of the game it's breaking and how it's being broken.
It has been explained over and over again and i am not going to repeat my and other words anymore. When u ll ve some decent arguments write it down. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3324
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 12:28:00 -
[166] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Okay, so we're getting somewhere. Now you explain what part of the game it's breaking and how it's being broken. It has been explained over and over again and i am not going to repeat my and other words anymore. When u ll ve some decent arguments write it down. No, it hasn't. All you've been saying is "it's too fast, it should be nerfed". Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3220
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 12:38:00 -
[167] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Okay, so we're getting somewhere. Now you explain what part of the game it's breaking and how it's being broken. It has been explained over and over again and i am not going to repeat my and other words anymore. When u ll ve some decent arguments write it down. No, it hasn't. All you've been saying is "it's too fast, it should be nerfed". Actually, we're going nowhere.
GENERAL DISUSSSIIIONNNNN~~~ Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
255
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 13:00:00 -
[168] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Okay, so we're getting somewhere. Now you explain what part of the game it's breaking and how it's being broken. It has been explained over and over again and i am not going to repeat my and other words anymore. When u ll ve some decent arguments write it down. No, it hasn't. All you've been saying is "it's too fast, it should be nerfed".
TL: DR
Only few alliances (a minority) have capabilities to be omnipresent (wherever, whenever) all around New Eden atm. Those few Alliances can wage war in one part of the galaxy, defend their moons in another, and gank as a third (non invited) party some chaps that are Capital brawling around lowsec without any major hassles.
It was the same when DRF (a minority) had the SC/Titan advantage and was blaping whole EVEs assses all around and whole EVE was spamming forums about it just as majority of EVE is spamming about the force projection now.
U see the problem? Of course not, because is working as itended for you. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3326
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 13:02:00 -
[169] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Okay, so we're getting somewhere. Now you explain what part of the game it's breaking and how it's being broken. It has been explained over and over again and i am not going to repeat my and other words anymore. When u ll ve some decent arguments write it down. No, it hasn't. All you've been saying is "it's too fast, it should be nerfed". TL: DR Only few alliances (a minority) have capabilities to be omnipresent (wherever, whenever) all around New Eden atm. Those few Alliances can wage war in one part of the galaxy, defend their moons in another, and gank as a third (non invited) party some chaps that are Capital brawling around lowsec without any major hassles. It was the same when DRF (a minority) had the SC/Titan advantage and was blaping whole EVEs assses all around and whole EVE was spamming forums about it just as majority of EVE is spamming about the force projection now. U see the problem? Of course not, because is working as itended for you. I think you missed the part where that's not going to change no matter how you decide to nerf it, because we'll find a way around it. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
255
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 13:07:00 -
[170] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Okay, so we're getting somewhere. Now you explain what part of the game it's breaking and how it's being broken. It has been explained over and over again and i am not going to repeat my and other words anymore. When u ll ve some decent arguments write it down. No, it hasn't. All you've been saying is "it's too fast, it should be nerfed". TL: DR Only few alliances (a minority) have capabilities to be omnipresent (wherever, whenever) all around New Eden atm. Those few Alliances can wage war in one part of the galaxy, defend their moons in another, and gank as a third (non invited) party some chaps that are Capital brawling around lowsec without any major hassles. It was the same when DRF (a minority) had the SC/Titan advantage and was blaping whole EVEs assses all around and whole EVE was spamming forums about it just as majority of EVE is spamming about the force projection now. U see the problem? Of course not, because is working as itended for you. I think you missed the part where that's not going to change no matter how you decide to nerf it, because we'll find a way around it.
Well good for you. And if u do, i ll bow to the mighty CFC. But as it stands now, it is simply broken. |
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RomeStar
Astra Research
121
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 13:51:00 -
[171] - Quote
Sofia Wolf wrote:Hi Rome, nice to hear form you o7
But I'd like to ask people to refrain from excessive conspiracy theorising, I don't want this thread locked by CCP.
Sofia
I apoligize for trolling your thread and because you aproached my trolling in a respectful manner I promise not to troll anymore of your posts out of respect.
Rome Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
303
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 13:57:00 -
[172] - Quote
Defending your turf looks too easy. Mobility should be decreased for such big forces. I am not going into comparing real life with Eve, it'd be just more fun if major power blocks had to field 10x more active players to keep a grip on their current grounds. New inventory: Getting better since version 1.2, but what about back and forward buttons? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3326
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 13:58:00 -
[173] - Quote
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:Defending your turf looks too easy. Mobility should be decreased for such big forces. I am not going into comparing real life with Eve, it'd be just more fun if major power blocks had to field 10x more active players to keep a grip on their current grounds. So you're basically saying you WANT to make things harder on smaller groups than on larger groups? Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
222
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 14:09:00 -
[174] - Quote
Andski wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:You like jumping in a non jumping ship (jf etc) enjoy a 120 second timer of not doing a damned thing once you land. Call it a "magnetic realignment". This is dumb because it'd make supercaps literally immune when tacklers can't do a damn thing after being bridged in and they'd have plenty of warning when hostile tacklers are on the way
And would do away with jumping directly into a fight and would not hamper the ability of actually traveling which is what everyone is bitching about.
Use some sort of alignment cooldown and the only thing taken away would be the ability to directly engage a fight, which is about the only travel method that does NOT employ some sort of invulvnerability that would constitute as being "op".
Would also enforce the method of having to strategically place a front to engage from, which logistically, is a bit better anyways. Since we are talking about titan bridging for the sake of fighting and not cyno alts in rookie ships etc, or traveling which would in fact not help at all, but also would not hinder.
Next trolling comment please. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
March rabbit
Aliastra
481
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 14:24:00 -
[175] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:Mynnna speaks from experience in a sov-holding null-sec alliance. OP speaks from experience gained from a Youtube video. Mynnna is an obvious member of a sov-holding null-sec alliance. OP is a member of a high-sec NPC corp.
OP is speaking a little bit out of their league. and we have never heard anything about "0.0 is broken" from 0.0 sov holders
while we are here what league would you only allow to speak about 0.0? Someone from leadership? Or regular alliance members are still allowed to speak? |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
222
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 14:40:00 -
[176] - Quote
Wow didn't realize so many pages lol. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
3331
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 14:42:00 -
[177] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Some Rando wrote:Mynnna speaks from experience in a sov-holding null-sec alliance. OP speaks from experience gained from a Youtube video. Mynnna is an obvious member of a sov-holding null-sec alliance. OP is a member of a high-sec NPC corp.
OP is speaking a little bit out of their league. and we have never heard anything about "0.0 is broken" from 0.0 sov holders while we are here what league would you only allow to speak about 0.0? Someone from leadership? Or regular alliance members are still allowed to speak? You're obviously allowed to speak, the point is that you're not particularly likely to know what you're talking about if your only experience in EVE is as a high-sec NPC corp member running missions. Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
222
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 14:52:00 -
[178] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Ryuu Shi wrote:RomeStar wrote:mynnna wrote:Any reasonable change CCP would make would be only a minimal burden to large organizations. ] Well of course we dont want to disturb the harmony of those large organizations afterall arent the goons the ones pulling the strings at CCP? Ignorance at its best. Please take the door to the left and biomass please. No amount of 'fixing force projections via nerf cyno to X' will stop well established alliances from doing what they do. As how others have mentioned, we work as a team (very large team) to get things done. Want some SOV space? Get a bigger team. Don't like the idea? Join the bigger team... what the OP suggests will just make things harder for the little guys NOT easier i.e cyno gets nerfed - > build more ships. Build more ships -> get more nerf. Get more nerf -> Build more... see where this is going? It's like Malcanis' law but in reverse. If you try to nerf the big guys, you end up nerfing the small ones even worse because they're already having trouble. Unless they join a blob
Isn't that what 80% of the Goons contributing to this thread are saying needs to be done anyways? I'd think that this would help accomplish those means. Instead, you have an argument where it's a bad idea because smaller groups need friends and to join bigger groups, but if what we are saying would be the case, it would hurt the smaller groups and force them to join a larger group.
If it's a win:win situation, why argue in the first place?
Kind of tanks credibility at that point doesn't it? "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
222
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 14:56:00 -
[179] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Well, if you all insist there is nothing wrong, lets see how far we can take it.
I propose all jump and bridge ranges be increased ten fold.
How does that sound? A tenfold increase in their range would be just as excessive a buff as removing jump bridges and the Jump Drive Cal skill entirely would be an excessive nerf. That said, I did not say "I think CCP is stupid and shouldn't change it", I said "If CCP thinks it needs to be changed, I'd work with them on it but stand by the fact that a range nerf is a stupid approach." And actually backing myself up a bit, a range nerf for the purpose of helping smaller entities is what's stupid, really. If you just want to nerf everyone's ability to project power via capital ships, it's actually not a completely terrible way of doing it.
Since Andski said the idea was stupid in regards to combat power projection, from a logistic standpoint Mynnna, how would having a "realignment timer" affect your argument about using transport and jump bridges? Would it have a devastating afect such as range and increased of jumps, or would it actually not affect jump freighting (minus time) and help with regulating the combat aspect as alot of us are vying for?
Not affecting jump freighting range, but affecting lock up timers is what I'm going for here.
"I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6371
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 15:08:00 -
[180] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:And would do away with jumping directly into a fight and would not hamper the ability of actually traveling which is what everyone is bitching about.
Use some sort of alignment cooldown and the only thing taken away would be the ability to directly engage a fight, which is about the only travel method that does NOT employ some sort of invulvnerability that would constitute as being "op".
Would also enforce the method of having to strategically place a front to engage from, which logistically, is a bit better anyways. Since we are talking about titan bridging for the sake of fighting and not cyno alts in rookie ships etc, or traveling which would in fact not help at all, but also would not hinder.
Next trolling comment please.
so supercaps literally never dying is, to you, an acceptable tradeoff for some gatecamps not getting crashed by subcaps titan bridging in ~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~ TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
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