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TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
216
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Posted - 2012.12.12 10:27:00 -
[31] - Quote
active tank myrmidon works pretty well |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
249
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Posted - 2012.12.12 11:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378Check that EHP. And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy. Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub.
Next: - 1x T2 Medium Armor Repairer on Harbinger - 1x T2 X-Large Shield booster on Cyclone |
Mirima Thurander
Estrada Dynamics - Exploration and Acquisition
448
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Posted - 2012.12.12 13:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
Yes It Does
A Dark time comes. A time of terror comes. My time. If it offends you. Stop me. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
136
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Posted - 2012.12.12 13:17:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jackson Steely wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? So in order to effectively active armor tank I need three repairers on a ship with a repair bonus? Thank you for confirming my OP.
Didn't Liang prove that a ASB fit Myrmidon tanked better than a triple DEADSPACE repper Myrmidon, in every possible way?
Also, to make the triple Myrm good, you need perfect Repair systems and Battlecruisers V, and still you will get alpha'd by damage that would still allow a ASB Harpy to make it back to the gate :P |
Jitalt Pirkibo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.12.12 13:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote: Plus there is the basic "general safety" issue - meaning that if your shield tank fails, you have until your armor dies to warp out. If your armor tank fails, you're basically toast because everyone knows that whenever your down to hull the game always experiences a sudden & mysterious burst of lag that keeps you from warping out in time. So when the poop hits the fan, it's a question of "repair ship" or "buy a new one." No.
If your armor drops despite your repper running at full load you know at 95% armor that you will need to leave. On the other hand you won't know if your PST can soak up all that damage until it's close to being broken - which means most of your buffer is gone already and your in for a ride down a steep slope.
And that measly bit of armor most shield ships have is gone in the blink of an eye - it's not a safety net worth mentioning.
Anyhow, if you let it come this far you deserve to pop - doesn't matter if armor or shield tanked.
Talking PVE of course... |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
382
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Posted - 2012.12.12 13:59:00 -
[36] - Quote
So you are basically saying why aren't there crystals for armor tanking?
same reason there aren't slaves for shield tanking.
same reason why there is no caldari-minmatar or gallente-amarr pirate boats.
because screw fairness. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1458
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Posted - 2012.12.12 14:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jitalt Pirkibo wrote:Katran Luftschreck wrote: Plus there is the basic "general safety" issue - meaning that if your shield tank fails, you have until your armor dies to warp out. If your armor tank fails, you're basically toast because everyone knows that whenever your down to hull the game always experiences a sudden & mysterious burst of lag that keeps you from warping out in time. So when the poop hits the fan, it's a question of "repair ship" or "buy a new one." No. If your armor drops despite your repper running at full load you know at 95% armor that you will need to leave. On the other hand you won't know if your PST can soak up all that damage until it's close to being broken - which means most of your buffer is gone already and your in for a ride down a steep slope. And that measly bit of armor most shield ships have is gone in the blink of an eye - it's not a safety net worth mentioning. Anyhow, if you let it come this far you deserve to pop - doesn't matter if armor or shield tanked. Talking PVE of course... I guess it's a good thing nobody uses PST in PVP. -áObjects in mirror are redder than they appear. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
249
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Posted - 2012.12.12 14:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:So you are basically saying why aren't there crystals for armor tanking?
same reason there aren't slaves for shield tanking.
same reason why there is no caldari-minmatar or gallente-amarr pirate boats.
because screw fairness.
Main advantage for shield tanking is the fact that you can use oversized shield boosters. With armor tank you have to use repairer that is meant to be used in your ship.
Armor: Frigate: small Cruiser/BC: medium BS: large
Shield: Frigate: small Cruiser/BC: medium/large/X-large BS: large/X-large |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
132
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Posted - 2012.12.12 16:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Commander Ted wrote:Double rep is also effective and your a scrub if you don't know how powerful a triple rep myrm is in average pvp. Also your whole argument utterly destroyed by this link HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA How the idiots he was shooting could easily have won that fight: Give him something supertanked to chew on and warp in at 20+ km, preferably with some heavy alpha. Like all those maelstroms? Also you aint gonna alpha a vindicator without an entire gang, AND even if he couldn't break you he could just jump through the gate. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
924
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Posted - 2012.12.12 17:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Unless you're in an incursus, in that case you're an unstoppable death machine that no other T1 frigate in the game can reasonably kill.
10% rep bonus on the Myrm and Brutix too, please. |
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Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
165
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Posted - 2012.12.12 17:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378Check that EHP. And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy. Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub. Next: - 1x T2 Medium Armor Repairer on Harbinger - 1x T2 X-Large Shield booster on Cyclone
That's the main problem. Ever tryed to use a Large Armor Rep on a Harbinger?
It is FAR to easy to use oversized Shield Boosters!
If you compare a empty Harbinger with just a Med Rep and a empty Hurrican with jus a MED Booster they are similar in HP/S. Harbinger get 51(53) armor/s and Hurrican 54(59) shield/s. BUT who uses MED Booster? Not even Cruiser fits use MED Booster as it should be! If you find a kill mail with a "only" a Large Booster on a Cyclon you get flaimed allready as it is a "must be" to fit X-Large. The sad part is: THEY FIT! Sure, you lose alot PG and CPU but it is not imposible to fit them. Just for fun try to fit a Large Repair on a Harbinger. It's not posible as you miss over 400 PG WITHOUT anything else fitted!
Fitting requierments for Shield Boosters are simply 100% broken. Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship! |
BearJews
Secure Arms Trade Coalition Secure Arms Trade Coalitions
57
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Posted - 2012.12.12 18:16:00 -
[42] - Quote
i dont think it's broken, just a different mechanic. Are you going to say missile system are broken because they don't do insta damage? Because velocity and both signature affect the applied dps? Come on, differmt systems, different results. It was never meant to be the same |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
64
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Posted - 2012.12.12 18:26:00 -
[43] - Quote
I have a dual plate dual rep prophecy that's pretty meaty. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
134
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Posted - 2012.12.12 18:28:00 -
[44] - Quote
Murk Paradox wrote:I have a dual plate dual rep prophecy that's pretty meaty. Say again? x2 plates and x2 reps? Not a very good idea, you should use armor resist hardners instead of plates or else your just wasting powergrid and making your ship slower with no bonus to your active tank. Plates should only be used when your going straight buffer. Two eanms give you similar EHP too two plates anyway at a bonus to your active tank.
Their are exceptions though to mixing reppers and plates don't get me wrong, but in any situation where your using a prophecy your probably not going to be mixing. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
YoYo NickyYo
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
71
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Posted - 2012.12.12 18:35:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jackson Steely wrote:Basically
Clearly you have never flown a double rep Navy Domi.... "Working as intended" |
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
165
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Posted - 2012.12.12 19:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
BearJews wrote:i dont think it's broken, just a different mechanic. Are you going to say missile system are broken because they don't do insta damage? Because velocity and both signature affect the applied dps? Come on, differmt systems, different results. It was never meant to be the same If it is posible to fit BS-sized systems without much problem on BC- or even Cruiser-sized hulls they YES, they ARE broken.
If you could fit Cruise Missile Launcher on a Drake then they would be broken too. Not only 1 but a full reg of them. And not only with all over fitting moduls but with just 1 fitting modul or even without any.
But if you don't belive they are broken tell me when you saw the last not-rookie fitting for a Frig with SMALL Booster which is realy flown and not just EFT-warrior. They use MED Booster as they fit so easily! Ever tryed to fit a MED Rep on a Frig-Sized hull?
XL-Booster are oversized BS moduls like Tachions are. But hey who cares, they are SO easy to fit, let's use them everywhere. EVEN on BC-sized hulls! Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship! |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
304
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Posted - 2012.12.12 19:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
Active armor tanking ROX!!!
For the 3 seconds you have it running until your cap is gone. So you fit a Booster.
Like that? Fly Minmatar Air --- "Trust in the Rust!" |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
64
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Posted - 2012.12.12 20:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Murk Paradox wrote:I have a dual plate dual rep prophecy that's pretty meaty. Say again? x2 plates and x2 reps? Not a very good idea, you should use armor resist hardners instead of plates or else your just wasting powergrid and making your ship slower with no bonus to your active tank. Plates should only be used when your going straight buffer. Two eanms give you similar EHP too two plates anyway at a bonus to your active tank. Their are exceptions though to mixing reppers and plates don't get me wrong, but in any situation where your using a prophecy your probably not going to be mixing.
There's more to it, just not the point of this thread. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
249
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Posted - 2012.12.12 20:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Active armor tanking ROX!!!
For the 3 seconds you have it running until your cap is gone. So you fit a Booster.
Like that?
Triple rep Harbinger vs dual ASB Cyclone
Fight! |
Rath Kelbore
Eviscerate.
297
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Posted - 2012.12.12 20:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
ASB's are broken. It was one of those "wouldn't it be cool if" things that CCP said they weren't doing anymore.
I mean, sure they're cool but obviously not very balanced. I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
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Roosevelt Coltrane
Rupakaya
4
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:03:00 -
[51] - Quote
Truth.
The Myrm has active tank bonuses but unless you TRIPLE rep it, a passive shield will be a better tank. It might be a great ship, but its basically the fourth Minmatar BC. Projectiles and shield tank make it awesome. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
68
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:06:00 -
[52] - Quote
No evildoer will break my active shield tanked GOLEM, nevar!
Armor? Is that an ancient knighly pantaloon and jacket set? Inside mining barge, true story |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
134
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:10:00 -
[53] - Quote
Roosevelt Coltrane wrote:Truth.
The Myrm has active tank bonuses but unless you TRIPLE rep it, a passive shield will be a better tank. It might be a great ship, but its basically the fourth Minmatar BC. Projectiles and shield tank make it awesome. What is wrong with triple repping if I get sick tank and can still scram, web, and have prop with a cap booster? Not to mention on a passively tanked drake your true tank doesnt kick in until your at 40% ish hp. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Kiteo Hatto
Equanimity Order
380
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 22:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
what. "That's okay it annoys me when people pile on new definitions to the word sandbox every time CCP does something they don't like." - Alara IonStorm GD is where 60% of threads make you dumber and 10% which provide you with entertainment, the remaining 30% is a mix of both. |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2012.12.12 23:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
Jojo Jackson wrote:
That's the main problem. Ever tryed to use a Large Armor Rep on a Harbinger?
It is FAR to easy to use oversized Shield Boosters!
If you compare a empty Harbinger with just a Med Rep and a empty Hurrican with jus a MED Booster they are similar in HP/S. Harbinger get 51(53) armor/s and Hurrican 54(59) shield/s. BUT who uses MED Booster? Not even Cruiser fits use MED Booster as it should be! If you find a kill mail with a "only" a Large Booster on a Cyclon you get flaimed allready as it is a "must be" to fit X-Large. The sad part is: THEY FIT! Sure, you lose alot PG and CPU but it is not imposible to fit them. Just for fun try to fit a Large Repair on a Harbinger. It's not posible as you miss over 400 PG WITHOUT anything else fitted!
Fitting requierments for Shield Boosters are simply 100% broken.
Also, What's funny is that you'd need five, yes FIVE medium armor repairers to nearly match the boosting per second an x-large ASB can do on a BC. To match and pass a large ASB on a cruiser you'd need three medium armor repairers and far more PG. I don't even want to look at the amount of capacitor required for the armor repairers to compete.
One classic argument is that shields favor boosting more at once, using more resources at once, and don't last as long while armor tanking has the longevity, but repairs less. The thing is you can stop the shield booster from cycling again. Now ASBs have the longevity as well as using no cap to do it. Sure, you have less mid-slots to use for tank as you need a couple for, but you have an active omni-resistance module and the damage control doesn't take up one of your potential tanking slots. So, why do ASBs get to be so absurdly effective for their fitting with no capacitor use?
Another argument, "the ASB lasts only so long since you have to wait a minute to reload." So, fit two of them. One will boost while the other reloads. Either that or put an oversized ASB and a fitting rig on to get twice the boost for the single slot, doubling your longevity.
Anyone who says armor tanking is fine is out of their mind. I wear my sunglasses at night. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2736
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Posted - 2012.12.12 23:20:00 -
[56] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Commander Ted wrote:Double rep is also effective and your a scrub if you don't know how powerful a triple rep myrm is in average pvp. Also your whole argument utterly destroyed by this link HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA How the idiots he was shooting could easily have won that fight: Give him something supertanked to chew on and warp in at 20+ km, preferably with some heavy alpha. Like all those maelstroms? Also you aint gonna alpha a vindicator without an entire gang, AND even if he couldn't break you he could just jump through the gate.
Maelstroms at point blank scream either incompetence or an AC fit.
He was tanking in low armor - a high alpha ship like an arty mael could continuously knock him into structure, meaning the damage would keep piling up as he tanked the armor portion. Wouldn't take long to finish the job bleeding through like that. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Irya Boone
Escadron leader
86
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Posted - 2012.12.12 23:25:00 -
[57] - Quote
like everything related to gallente playstyle
Active armor tanking Hybrid turrets Drones
All sucks badly
nothing new under the sun of JIta !!! Improve C2 class WH More anos more signs ...RENAME null sec system With the name Of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It xill be awesome-á |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
136
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Posted - 2012.12.12 23:34:00 -
[58] - Quote
On a 6 midslot shield tanking boat with 4 lows I can fit a damage control, scram prop and 4 tanking modules in my shields. So boost amp invuln and 2 asbs (and maybe a cpu unit in the lows). That is only a scram and prop on your epic tanked ship.
Meanwhile a 5 mid 6 low slot myrmidon has 6 lows for tanking and 5 for cap/ewar. The heavy use of the armor reppers is compensated by the fact I can fit a webifier, have cap boosters in case of heavy cap warfare, and I have no 60 second reload, a fair trade off in my opinion.
If armor reppers took up the same room as a shield booster then the armor tankers have a clear advantage, you have multiple TE's and damage mods along with extra webs.
If a shield tank used all of their midslots then you would only be a bait brick with no point or prop.
Although ASB is just plain OP to. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2012.12.12 23:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
Irya Boone wrote:like everything related to gallente playstyle
Active armor tanking Hybrid turrets Drones
All sucks badly
nothing new under the sun of JIta !!! The thing that makes blasters suck is armor. It's too damn slow and active tanking no longer tanks enough. The myrmidon is an exception since fitting three repairers, two cap boosters, and a MWD causes you to gimp the guns. The damage on that ship is based around the drones, not guns.
Shields are good on gallente ships since you can put plenty of damage and tracking/range modules in the lows. Speed is much better, too. I wear my sunglasses at night. |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
136
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Posted - 2012.12.13 00:01:00 -
[60] - Quote
Perihelion Olenard wrote:Irya Boone wrote:like everything related to gallente playstyle
Active armor tanking Hybrid turrets Drones
All sucks badly
nothing new under the sun of JIta !!! The thing that makes blasters suck is armor. It's too damn slow and active tanking no longer tanks enough. The myrmidon is an exception since fitting three repairers, two cap boosters, and a MWD causes you to gimp the guns. The damage on that ship is based around the drones, not guns. Shields are good on gallente ships since you can put plenty of damage and tracking/range modules in the lows. Speed is much better, too. Fit projectiles on your myrms dood https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
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