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Jackson Steely
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.12.12 01:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Basically |
Revman Zim
Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda
41
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Posted - 2012.12.12 01:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
I will agree with you that it is not the optimal way to fit a ship for PvP, however, for PvE it is the best way to go in an Amarr ship.
Armor tanking is necessary for some extended high level missions.
IMHO
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Some Rando
University of Caille Gallente Federation
273
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Posted - 2012.12.12 01:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
No ****, got some content? |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
953
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Posted - 2012.12.12 01:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
It really depends on the ship. Active armour tanking is very good on the right ship.
Hell, i'd say it's more effective than active shield tanking (not using an ASB) since ASBs made that totally obsolete. |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
338
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Posted - 2012.12.12 01:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
ibtl for rant You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
244
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Posted - 2012.12.12 01:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Active armor tanking fleets need to be done remote to escape the game breaking cycle times. That requires high slots and a lot of Cap so yes, Active armor tanking is off the doctrine for most people. The additional logistics in fleet take from would be dps and it doesn't work out as an end benefit. R.I.P. Vile Rat |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
401
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Posted - 2012.12.12 01:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:It really depends on the ship. Active armour tanking is very good on the right ship.
Hell, i'd say it's more effective than active shield tanking (not using an ASB) since ASBs made that totally obsolete. How so? Even before the ASB active shield boosting was more effective than armor tanking in my opinion. The ASB only seemed to exasperate the issue further. The only time Armor tanking appears to be beneficial to me would be when the hull bonuses enhance it and mids are in short supply. |
Transmaritanus
Sinister Elite Black Legion.
18
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Posted - 2012.12.12 02:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378
Check that EHP.
And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy.
Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub. |
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
668
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Posted - 2012.12.12 02:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378Check that EHP. And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy. Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub.
Double Rep Incursus would like to talk to you as well. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
350
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Posted - 2012.12.12 02:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378Check that EHP. And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy. Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub.
T1 frigate kills active armor T2 frigate. What side of this debate are you on again? |
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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
338
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Posted - 2012.12.12 02:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ocih wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378Check that EHP. And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy. Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub. T1 frigate kills active armor T2 frigate. What side of this debate are you on again?
er... they're both T1 frigates. The fact that an Incursus managed to take over 35000 damage before it died is what he's talking about. And an active-tanked Incursus with a cap booster will almost always outperform (depending on the pilot) a passive tanked Incursus. It definitely depends on the ship.
What makes it even more epic is that it was only a 10-mil loss. At 10 mil, you can get 35,000 ehp by active-tanking an Incursus.
Gallente FTW!! You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
350
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Posted - 2012.12.12 02:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Ocih wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378Check that EHP. And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy. Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub. T1 frigate kills active armor T2 frigate. What side of this debate are you on again? er... they're both T1 frigates. The fact that an Incursus managed to take of 35000 damage before it died is what he's talking about.
Corrected. Not sure why I saw Ishkur. It's still difficult to convince me the ship you just blew up was well fit. |
Jackson Steely
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.12.12 02:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm?
So in order to effectively active armor tank I need three repairers on a ship with a repair bonus?
Thank you for confirming my OP. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
353
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Posted - 2012.12.12 02:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jackson Steely wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? So in order to effectively active armor tank I need three repairers on a ship with a repair bonus? Thank you for confirming my OP.
To make this a little closer to relevant in EVE Online, you could change the title as well.
Active Armor Ganking Sucks.
Gank beats tank. EVE is EVE. It will never change. |
Shinzhi Xadi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.12.12 02:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
How about a hypothetical tanking comparison here, just to illustrate how fail active armor tanking is: This is from a omni tanked mission perspective. Yes I know that many missions only do 2 types of damage, but thats not the point, the point is to see how much tank can be done as omni with these ships.
Take the 4 marauders, designed for active tanks, designed for missions.
Allow them to have 2 damage mods in the lows, rest is tank. Golem gets 1 TP in mid. Tanking modules can be anything up to A-type. No X-type, and no officer, and no ASB. Must be cap stable or stably running on cap boosters. Use any implants you want. Do not overheat any modules
Golem: HG crystal implants, and A-type tank, with 2 BCS, and 1 target painter, EFT shows cap stable 2249 dps OMNI tank. Rigs are not used for tank.
Vargur: HG crystal implants, similar tank to the golem, 2 gyro's, cap stable 2211 dps OMNI tank. Rigs not used for tank.
Paladin: A-type tank, 2 heat sink, cap stable 971 dps OMNI tank, Rigs used for cap.
Kronos: sorry, don't fly them, so skipping, but I suspect its similar to the Paladin.
Just for fun, how about a nightmare fit for extreme heavy tanking in missions, must be cap stable, 2 damage mods like above?
Nightmare: HG crystal implants, A-type tank, 2 heat sink, cap stable 1772 dps OMNI tank, Rigs used for cap.
What does this show? with high end modules, active shield tanking is very strong for PVE. Armor tank sucks no matter how much you spend. All these fits can be easily checked in EFT. I'm not saying shield tanking is overpowered, I think its working as intended. Armor tanking needs to be fixed badly.
I invite anybody to figure out a paladin or kronos tank that can approach the tanks of the golem, vargur, or even the nightmare using up to a-type modules while keeping at least 2 damage mods in low. |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
126
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Posted - 2012.12.12 02:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jackson Steely wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? So in order to effectively active armor tank I need three repairers on a ship with a repair bonus? Thank you for confirming my OP. Double rep is also effective and your a scrub if you don't know how powerful a triple rep myrm is in average pvp.
Also your whole argument utterly destroyed by this link HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
197
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Posted - 2012.12.12 03:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jackson Steely wrote:Basically
Your Joking .... you must be
The Dominix has an Awesome active tank The Typhoon is built like a brick, and it shield-reps squishy ravens like a Boss at the same time.
EFT/Pfya ... play with fits see what is possible with good skills because yes as a noob you will suck, royally. |
Nylith Empyreal
Crowbar Industries. Rebel Alliance of New Eden
190
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Posted - 2012.12.12 03:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dual Rep Hyperion FTW. "Oh, you can't help that," said the troll: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" -ásaid the forumwarrior. "You must be," said the troll, "or you wouldn't have come here." |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
727
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Posted - 2012.12.12 04:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
I watched 10secondrule's Megathron sit and tank alot of abuse for quite awhile last night in Rens...before he misclicked and got WTFPWNOMGBBQD right on the undock. Was quite hilarious, and he did quite well until he died. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
953
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Posted - 2012.12.12 05:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:The only time Armor tanking appears to be beneficial to me would be when the hull bonuses enhance it and mids are in short supply.
that's about the same as saying that lasers are only good on ships with a laser bonus... (No sh*t sherlock)
as for armour tanking, it's actually not true. vindicators, domis even buffer fit proteus and legion without the rep bonus sub work very well with armour reppers. and im talking just PVP here since man many unbonused hulls get armour tanked for PVE.
in any case, the exact same thing can be said of active shield tanking where the only ship without a boost or resist bonus that i can think of that works (or worked, more realistically) well with a non ASB active shield tank is the nightmare. |
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fukier
244
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Posted - 2012.12.12 05:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jackson Steely wrote:Basically
you say this as if its a bad thing... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
fukier
244
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Posted - 2012.12.12 05:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Transmaritanus wrote:You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378Check that EHP. And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy. Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub.
i wonder how much ehp it has against a thrasher with arities using fusion?
incursus is great if you can tank the incomming dps and have a crap load of cap boosters...
i would not mind if you could use nanite repair paste in amor reps to make them better... kinda like what they did with asb but instead of cap boosters you used nanite paste... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
348
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Posted - 2012.12.12 05:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
need to boost armor tanking How the **** do you remove a signature? |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2736
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Posted - 2012.12.12 05:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Double rep is also effective and your a scrub if you don't know how powerful a triple rep myrm is in average pvp. Also your whole argument utterly destroyed by this link HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
How the idiots he was shooting could easily have won that fight:
Give him something supertanked to chew on and warp in at 20+ km, preferably with some heavy alpha. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
fukier
245
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Posted - 2012.12.12 05:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Commander Ted wrote:Double rep is also effective and your a scrub if you don't know how powerful a triple rep myrm is in average pvp. Also your whole argument utterly destroyed by this link HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA How the idiots he was shooting could easily have won that fight: Give him something supertanked to chew on and warp in at 20+ km, preferably with some heavy alpha.
all those dead ships and not one ecm drone or bb?
ffs... At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Twopah
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
2
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Posted - 2012.12.12 05:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tanking in EVE is a waste of time.
280,000 EHP freighters drop in under 5 seconds and we aren't talking 300 man blobs to make that happen. PvP in EVE is a last man standing cage match.
Unless that changes, this is a thread about novelty battles and making soup from peelings. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
212
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Posted - 2012.12.12 05:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ya know, I once flew a mission with a guy flying an Navy Apocalypse with mad armor tank abilities. It was very impressive... at least up to the point where his tank started to fail and he had to warp out to make repairs.
Meanwhile, my shield tanked Myrmidon stayed behind and soaked 100% of the aggo until he could make it back several minutes later. It was pretty rough - I got knocked down to barely 75% shield by the time he got back! This was, up until then, unheard of.
But that was PvE... the general consensus for PvPers is that armor tanking is the way to go. PvE though? Shield tank > Armor tank, hands down.
Look, that armor repair module may look nice until you break everything down to a second-by-second pile of math. Let's say that I've got a shield tank Gila that can heal 200 points of shield per second, passive (and I do). Now let's say that someone else has a armor repair module that can heal 800 points per cycle. Looks like armor repair is cooler, so long as they can handle the battery drain, right? But then look at the cycle times... is it 10 seconds long? Opps - looks like his repair rate is actually only 80 points per second... and he's wasting his battery to do it. Shield tank wins the argument.
Yes, you shield boat has a higher sig and missiles blah blah blah. So what? If they can't hurt you then it doesn't matter how often they hit you. Plus there is the basic "general safety" issue - meaning that if your shield tank fails, you have until your armor dies to warp out. If your armor tank fails, you're basically toast because everyone knows that whenever your down to hull the game always experiences a sudden & mysterious burst of lag that keeps you from warping out in time. So when the poop hits the fan, it's a question of "repair ship" or "buy a new one."
Again, I'm only talking about PvE, not PvP, so spare me your PvP arguments because I'm actually agreeing with you in that area. I've seen enough active tank done in PvP to see that it works there. Just talking about missions running here. Go with shields, kids. It's easier, safer, costs less and won't suck down your battery.
Addendum: The battery issue especially important for Amarr ships using lasers. Why on earth CCP thought it would be a good idea to make a race that is so helplessly dependent on batteries for their weapons also have to depend on that same already stressed-out battery to defend their ships with armor tanking is beyond me. Actually, I take that back. I was assuming that they honestly believed it was a good idea. From the people who brought you the Amarr drone destroyer in the same patch that killed drone use... yeah, thanks for nothing CCP. EvE Forum Bingo |
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
135
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Posted - 2012.12.12 06:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Medium dual rep + armor pumps rigs + booser 525 armor hp eatch, Dual large rep on dominix + dual cap inectors even more awesome.
I cant agree with OP, its depend enemy and damage output you got... you cant stand to few man blob even you got faction tank... EvE isn't game, its style of living. |
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra Gallente Federation
343
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Posted - 2012.12.12 06:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Jackson Steely wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? So in order to effectively active armor tank I need three repairers on a ship with a repair bonus? Thank you for confirming my OP. Double rep is also effective and your a scrub if you don't know how powerful a triple rep myrm is in average pvp. Also your whole argument utterly destroyed by this link HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Lol @ local chat.... go to about 6:00 in and read local.
"throw more ships at it"
MOAR SHIPS!!! You don't scare me. I've been to Jita. |
Jawas
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2012.12.12 10:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:Transmaritanus wrote:You are just terrible at EVE. Active Armor tanking kicks ass. http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15154378Check that EHP. And that's not an isolated case either. When I fight Incursuses they go for 20 minutes at a time, because the tank is sexy. Ever heard of a Triple rep Myrm? Or a Active Tank Sacrilage? Learn to undock scrub. Double Rep Incursus would like to talk to you as well. Dual rep Omen does a good job too with decent skills. However, that was over a year ago, not sure about how good it is now though.
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