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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.09 21:17:00 -
[1]
This makes absoloutely no sense at all CCP. My implants are lost, my medical clone is lost, MY CORPSE IS IN SPACE, yet apparently your clothing and/or monacle are indestructible?
Could a dev just jump in here and sort this out nice and quick for me please? |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 21:21:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Bloodcrow Your naked in your pod...
From CCP Zinfandel
Quote: If you are currently wearing an outfit, it is effectively indestructible so put it on before you leave if you're making your purchase at a well-traveled market hub like Jita.
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 21:25:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Ivoto
Originally by: Bloodcrow Your naked in your pod...
This...actually.
Then I counter with this;
What happens to the items you have purchased, or are wearing when you get into your pod? And if they are stored on the ship somewhere, once again, refer to the op. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 21:56:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Tautut We're podded (some of us at least) and automatically get reborn in clone vats trillions of miles away - and you're worried about monocles and pants?
I'm bored of this groundhog day wha wha wha - 'I've found a hole in this logic' - tear festival. It's a game. Get over it.
well why cant implants survive? If a monocle can, why cant my slaves? |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 22:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ivoto
Originally by: AnzacPaul MY CORPSE IS IN SPACE
Your naked corpse...
Plenty of material to read up on about this. I'm sure Japanese Boutique pants don't take well to being drenched in ectoplasm everytime you hop into your pod.
Read through my posts in this thread properly, and then see why what you said makes no sense.
Surely the devs have lore for this? All im asking is they come in quick and tell me how a monocle survives a podding, but my implants dont? |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 22:29:00 -
[6]
I dont really mind how each individual comes to terms with it.
I want to know how from a role playing/game play/story telling point of view how these items survive. CCP talks all the time about not breaking immersion. What i'm asking isnt unreasonable really is it? |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 22:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness
I'm mostly annoyed at the crap being indestructible not due to role play concerns, but because it's stupid to make them this safe. If they had sold them for $10 and made them destructible it would have been much more EVE and probably generated a lot more income in the mid- to long run. THAT's what I don't get, and I am not even a doctor of economy who supposedly is on the payroll of CCP. Didn't they ask him, or was he too busy making PDFs?
My view is that the economist was told to make a m/t plan for a game, without an understanding of the game or the community. If he/she had, perhaps they would of seen an awesome market for low priced items that would be destroyed.
just my 2 cents though and I could be completely wrong. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 01:20:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lilliana Stelles If you had vanity items you'd realize they are destroyed, they just insure to 100%.
That's what you're paying so much for: permanent insurance.
Funny, CCP Zinfandel says otherwise
Quote: If you are currently wearing an outfit, it is effectively indestructible so put it on before you leave if you're making your purchase at a well-traveled market hub like Jita.
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 01:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lilliana Stelles
Originally by: AnzacPaul If you are currently wearing an outfit, it is effectively indestructible
Key word there is effectively. Just like your rookie ship that magically respawns when you die.
have you ever read the default message when you dock without a ship? Here it is for you
Quote: We from the friendly insurance company Pend Insurance regret the recent loss of your spacecraft. According to the agreement between Pend Insurance and SCC, we hereby grant you a brand new Ibis, fully fitted. Also included is a gratuity gift of Tritanium.
It is explained perfectly. How your monocle survives when you are podded when it is physically attached to your body is not |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 01:52:00 -
[10]
Edited by: AnzacPaul on 10/07/2011 01:53:56
Originally by: Selinate Edited by: Selinate on 10/07/2011 01:47:21 Haven't the devs said multiple times before already that vanity items ARE destructible when in your cargo hold?
In addition to this, you are naked in your pod, its not like a monocle implant can't be explained as being just pulled out of your head before you decide to fly. No one is wearing clothes inside the pod, its just put back on your clone when you get out.
Therefore, I'm equally confused as to why people don't have the intelligence to piece this fairly simple puzzle together themselves...
EDIT: So when you leave jita, and your monocle is removed, how is it sent to your destination? |
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 01:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: AnzacPaul
I think it's pretty safe to say the monocle isnt removed from your eye before you fly, therefore your point about saving what, a projected image of the vanity items on your clone makes even less sense, seeing as that really means they were never in a physical form in the first place.
No, its not safe to say that.
See above then, and clarify for me. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 02:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: AnzacPaul Edited by: AnzacPaul on 10/07/2011 01:53:56
Originally by: Selinate Edited by: Selinate on 10/07/2011 01:47:21 Haven't the devs said multiple times before already that vanity items ARE destructible when in your cargo hold?
In addition to this, you are naked in your pod, its not like a monocle implant can't be explained as being just pulled out of your head before you decide to fly. No one is wearing clothes inside the pod, its just put back on your clone when you get out.
Therefore, I'm equally confused as to why people don't have the intelligence to piece this fairly simple puzzle together themselves...
EDIT: So when you leave jita, and your monocle is removed, how is it sent to your destination?
Actually, lets not even stop here, why is ANY character clothed when they dock in a new station? OMG, everyone should be naked EVERY SINGLE TIME they dock.
They give you a new one. A whole new set of clothes. They give you a new monocle too and take the one you left in the other station back.
Oh of course damn why didnt I see that earlier..... Your monocle is a rental, not a purchase. Now it makes sense. thanks |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 04:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex Yeah because the space game with a permanent 'up' and one gun puts 2-3 on your ship that can't fire at the same time is the perfect place to whine about immersion.
Your portrait is just that. A portrait your naked goo-covered self puts out for the world to see, INSTEAD OF A NAKED GOO COVERED LIMP FACE. The Monocle doesn't get blown up because you're not wearing it. It goes to the new clone the same way YOUR OLD CLOTHES DID. Your clones haven't been showing up naked the past eight years have they? Nothing new. If it hurts your immersion now it should always have. It didn't, because back then you weren't butthurt whiners.
What a stupid thread.
If you read through what you just posted, you'd realise you contradicted yourself in the first 4 sentences.
First you say you never even wear the monocle, which is wrong because even though I dont have one and cant confirm, IT WOULD BE PRETTY STUPID IF IT DIDN'T APPEAR ON YOU IN YOUR CAPTAINS QUARTERS. Then you say it gets "automatically" transferred to your new clone.
So what if i'm just moving station and don't get killed, does the same happen to all my clothes?
You never left your pod prior to Incarna. What clothes were displayed on you avatar was a non-issue, because they didnt represent anything in the game. It was just a way of differentiating players.
Your monocle gives your argument no weight, and the sooner you lose them when you get podded, the better.
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 05:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder When you buy a NeX item, you are actually signing a contract which includes the replacement at the cloning facilities around our stars. It is stored in a compartment of your POD while you are in the goo.
Seriously, is this what worries you in EVE?
Ok cool, if ccp come out and state this as canon, then its no problem.
But what happens to that contract when your pod gets smartbombed to oblivion? |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 05:10:00 -
[15]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
I didn't say you NEVER wear it. This knocks down your whole post like a row of dominos. Sorry you don't know how to read.
Ok so how does your monocle get from jita to your 0.0 outpost.
I would like to know cause next time I buy a truckload of stuff from Jita I would like to get in insta-safe-transported to my destination of choice whenever,wherever, regardless of being podded or not
gtfo. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 10:00:00 -
[16]
So by your way of thinking, everytime I dock in a station to change ammo, I also have to have an implant surgically implanted into my eye? and then before I undock have it taken back out again, upon when arriving at another station to accept a mission I get a brand new one implanted, I accept the mission, the monocle is removed, I undock, I deliver a courier package to another station, dock up when once again I am given a brand new monocle inserted, before having it removed prior to undocking?
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 02:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gurgeh Murat
Originally by: Bklyn 1 It is very un-Eve-like that your Nex stuff does not drop or get destroyed when you get podded.
-1 CCP
I concur, an opportunity to harvest tears has been sidestepped by ccp. Its also pretty ****ed that you can put on a monocle, create your avatar then take it off and sell it. Im surprised everyone in EvE isnt wearing one by now.
Oh wait, its because they look like a brass @nus coupled with a monobrow
Bumping this for a Dev answer.
If we have to have M/T, make it cheap, make it vanity only, and make it DESTRUCTIBLE.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 02:37:00 -
[18]
Can anyone with items bought from the nex store confirm that a license is stored in your cargo whilst travelling between stations?
Didnt think so.
Funny, theres alot of things in Eve that cost more than 1.6b, even single mods and guess what, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS DESTRUCTIBLE. The cost of the item has no bearing on its replacement. Eve has always been about risk and introducing a "god mode" item that is invincible and can travel magically from station to station, even though your not actually wearing it in your pod, or is it being stored on your ship, goes against the stance CCP has taken on such issues since the beginning.
As soon as plex were able to be transported in cargo, they were made destroyable. Now we have goggles, which are cheaper than 1 plex, but they arent destroyable?
What you are suggesting is a lifetime insurance brand new replacement for an item every time you dock/undock/get podded/change ships. For 1.6billion?
Now a freighter costs half that, you rarely lose one, let alone every time you dock and undock, yet they dont have a lifetime replacement warranty, but an item of clothing or an implant does?
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 08:08:00 -
[19]
Maybe its a grand ploy to reintroduce the Jovian race, they have evolved into the ultimate metrosexuals with clothing that is indestructible.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 11:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: ninjaholic Lol. Ragin'.
A Dev could quite easily quell the Ragin' if one would so kindly explain how they survive?
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.12 06:24:00 -
[21]
Bumping for a Dev response, cmon guys you are the ones that created it, surely you know???
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 07:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lucius Vindictus Do we pee in our pods? I've never seen a urinal in the game...
Seriously.. Sometimes you need to leave stuff up to your imagination. Does there have to be an explanation for everything? Do you want to go to a clothing store every time you get podded just for realism purposes? Before going to battle, maybe you would like to iron your digital shirts in the CQ?
Just maybe all that stuff happens when we are not looking?
For me it's about consistency, the basic tl;dr is why should vanity items be magically transported when plenty of other items cost more, and can all be dropped/destroyed, including plex. people still buy and transport them, even with the risks.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
Originally by: Darian Nystrom Edited by: Darian Nystrom on 13/07/2011 08:59:40 Edited by: Darian Nystrom on 13/07/2011 08:59:01
Originally by: AnzacPaul Edited by: AnzacPaul on 10/07/2011 04:44:37 This makes absoloutely no sense at all CCP. My implants are lost, my medical clone is lost, MY CORPSE IS IN SPACE, yet apparently your clothing and/or monacle are indestructible?
*Edit* someone beat me to my original point because I failed to read the whole thread. disregard this post.
because clothes are worthless, they are cloned each time you dock.
you pay for license to use the design.
implants are hard to produce thus are lost.
Nice fairy tale, got some links from CCP Dev posts to back this up?
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 09:56:00 -
[24]
Edited by: AnzacPaul on 13/07/2011 09:57:08
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
there was a post saying its not destroyed when podded, and you can check that in game. what else do you need?
Yes, like HOW THEY SURVIVE WHEN NOTHING ELSE IN THE GAME CAN!
You stated
Quote:
because clothes are worthless, they are cloned each time you dock.
you pay for license to use the design.
implants are hard to produce thus are lost
If you cannot produce any evidence to support this, then it is speculation, at best.
I have posted a legitimate question which is clearly explained, and in my opinion, and others so it seems, requires an explanation.
What I have got so far is a bunch of people making things up with absolutely no evidence to support their claim. They may in fact be correct. But until it's proven one way or another, please dont come into this thread calling the question stupid just because you have jusitified it one way or another.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 10:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 13/07/2011 10:05:14 why don't they answer first why is there is no inertia or gravity, or why you can fly inside the planets and stars and survive, or why don't you destruct when bumping into other ships and structures.
in any kind of game one needs to invent some explanation for lots of things without developers' help in order to make it believable.
no, because they are consistent. If you took damage from bumping into say Ice roids but not stations, or Veldspar, then it would require an explanation as to why one item causes damage, but another doesnt.
Thats all im asking for here, is a reason why all other items in the game are destroyed when podded, but clothes arent when you are clearly naked in your pod.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.14 00:10:00 -
[26]
Bumping for a Dev answer.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.15 04:21:00 -
[27]
^^ 3 posts of tl;dr
Bumping for a Dev answer!! Its almost insulting to not get a response really when Dev's have been seen in other threads a'plenty.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.15 08:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu
Originally by: AnzacPaul ^^ 3 posts of tl;dr
Bumping for a Dev answer!! Its almost insulting to not get a response really when Dev's have been seen in other threads a'plenty.
They haven't responded because you are an idiot for complaining about something so stupid.
Your tears are delcious bear.
Now gtfo if you've nothing productive to say, i'm entitled to my game as much as you are.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.16 03:38:00 -
[29]
Bumping for a Dev answer, especially after the May Minutes that show CCP originally planned to have them destructible.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.16 05:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bei XiaoJie You do not actually own them.
When you buy it, you only get the right to "rent" the item for photo opportunities (toon piccy). When you arrive at a new station, these rights are passed along to the local NEX store which quickly places a copy of said item into your foot locker for use whilst at the station. The items are then returned on undock.
None of these items are actually with yo in the pod.
You can still transport items in cargo bays if you are not wearing them. So how can the items be in the cargo if they are only available in station?
In other words, stop making stuff up.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.16 23:14:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Gurgeh Murat Edited by: Gurgeh Murat on 16/07/2011 10:51:39 Magic Space pixies materialize around your clone when your about to get popped and whisk the vanities to your next clones destination?
Oh wait, this thread was about asking CCP for a simple explanation as to the lore rationale and/or strategy behind introducing eves first player tradeable/transportable item which cannot be destroyed (if worn).
Not for wild conjecture on the part of random players. An informed response from CCP is what OP (and myself) are after.
If you dont care, if it doesent bother you, if your immersion and sense of sandbox remains uncompromised, feel free to demonstrate this by not posting. I demonstrate how little I care about Xenuria by not posting in or even reading her threads. Feel free to apply the same rationale. If you post here to say you dont care, its not a big thing etc guess what......
Bumping for a Dev answer!!
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 01:36:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Sharon Anne
Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder When you buy a NeX item, you are actually signing a contract which includes the replacement at the cloning facilities around our stars. It is stored in a compartment of your POD while you are in the goo.
Seriously, is this what worries you in EVE?
This, it is part of the price of the clone ..
Link to devpost plz
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 02:05:00 -
[33]
Bumping for a Dev answer.
I think I could be classed as insane ITT. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 07:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Austherus Ahnisial Durr hurrrr ccp I'm gunna cry I can't has tears from monocle owners durr hurrr!!!
You are smart enough to understand why clothing is not destructible, now go back to the basement!!!
Quote: MMORPG.ORG: What can players expect over the next few months with EVE?
Kristoffer Touborg (STOFFER NINJAPIRATE/CCP SOUNDWAVE): itĘs pretty safe, itĘs become too much of a happy fairy land
When you implement items that are indestructible, yeah generally thats gonna happen.
Cmon Devs, you gonna do awesome PR and keep ignoring threads again? How bout an honest answer for people actually interested in your game?
Or is that too much to ask?
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 07:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Wreckar
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Cmon Devs, you gonna do awesome PR and keep ignoring threads again? How bout an honest answer for people actually interested in your game?
Or is that too much to ask?
Is it too much to ask to take Anzac out of your name? They didn't die for morons like you.
Wow your internet cool rating just went up 2 points!
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 07:57:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Def Antares
Originally by: AnzacPaul Edited by: AnzacPaul on 10/07/2011 04:44:37 This makes absoloutely no sense at all CCP. My implants are lost, my medical clone is lost, MY CORPSE IS IN SPACE, yet apparently your clothing and/or monacle are indestructible?
Could a dev just jump in here and sort this out nice and quick for me please?
well you dont wear your clothes in the pod, and probably you get a lifetime 100% insurance with your monocle, that would explain the price, wouldn't it?
fu with realism in a CG lol.
no not really, because they are only replaced if you are wearing them which as you stated, you aren't as you are naked in your pod. If you are transporting them in your cargo they can be destroyed/dropped.
Its not about realism, its about consistency.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 11:42:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Wreckar
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Originally by: Wreckar
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Cmon Devs, you gonna do awesome PR and keep ignoring threads again? How bout an honest answer for people actually interested in your game?
Or is that too much to ask?
Is it too much to ask to take Anzac out of your name? They didn't die for morons like you.
Wow your internet cool rating just went up 2 points!
Child.
Your comparing soldiers sacrificing their lives in war to me asking a question on a game forum about internet spaceships and you call me a child?
Get the **** out.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.19 04:15:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Cyzlaki
Originally by: Serwrath
Originally by: Important Person Lets go roleplaying.
Why do my normal clothes, jewellery, shades not get destroyed? Why is there an infinite supply of them for free at whichever station I dock at?
Game breaking.
This, I want to know why nobody mentions it, specially when some of the normal clothes are better than the NeX ones.
Game, set and match.
It was never an issue when clothes weren't changeable. It was consistent.
Let me try this from a different angle
Someone buys clothing in Jita with the intention to sell on market and make a profit. They set their clone to the destination station, undock, get a corpie to blow them up, guess what? They just transported market items instantly with absoloutely zero risk at all.
You could move billions of isk of clothing items risk free for as many people as you like with no dramas at all.
But thats cool right? ______ Important stuff up there ^ ^ |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.23 03:28:00 -
[39]
Bump please ______ Important stuff up there ^ ^ |
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