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Atticus Fynch
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:39:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Harcosi
Did CPP take your videocard out and change the cooling on it? Did they fill it with dust? Did they overclock it?
You may have the worst analogies I have read in a very long time.
Clean rig, never overclocked (I don't believe in it, it shortens the lifespan of your hardware) and had extra fans. _ _________ _ "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it." |
Sir Hillary
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:40:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Copine Callmeknau I installed Incarna and all I got was these two lousy BSOD's then my CPU melted.
Seriosuly though, I had to UNDERCLOCK my goddamn computer to get EVE running stable again. I'd really like to know why CCP have given me the choice between shilling out hundreds on watercooling or having my RAM run at half speed (1066mhz is stable and I am not a happy panda >_<)
****in barbie online should not cook stock systems to death. I'm not overclocking and I keep my system clean, I shouldn't be worrying about my core i7 hitting goddamn 80deg C during a silly online game.
As has already been stated, while it may be slightly stupid that CQ puts such a high load on your machine, the fact of the matter is that it's your hardware (cooling specifically) that's at fault if it can't take it without dying. If you're not overclocking then the CPU is not operating at above it's advertised capacity. If it melts, something in your rig was inadequate or faulty.
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Harcosi
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:41:00 -
[33]
My computer switched off while I was multiboxing Eve (Pre-Incarna). I looked around for the issue and found that the powersupply was extremely hot. It had worked fine for weeks before that.
Did I blame Eve? No, I bought a better powersupply.
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Syn Fatelyng
Galactic Eden Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:41:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Syn Fatelyng on 22/06/2011 14:42:26
Originally by: Atticus Fynch Again, your argument is akin to the car mechanic saying: it's not my maintenance that damaged your car, it's just that you have an inferior car.
Let's reuse your example. Quote: You take in your car to a mechanic..he works on it. He made the negligent mistake of putting antifreeze in your engine instead of oil. Your car dies and you go back to complain.
That is inaccurate, I feel. This should put things into a better line of sight for you: Quote: You take in your car to a mechanic because you complain about the tires. They're losing traction, so you have to drive slowly. He fixes your tires. You start driving faster and when you break, you suddenly wear out your breakpads and find yourself unable to stop.
Does that make sense? He fixed an unrelated issue that indirectly allowed you to drive faster. By driving faster, it triggered an already existing weak spot in the car. The breakpads.
The fact that the breakpads gave out because you drove faster due to having new tires it not the fault of the mechanic. It's the fault of bad breakpads (not inferior, maybe defective) or your lack of rotating the pads (proper upkeep).
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Reloadin
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:41:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
I have a 4 core core CPU set up. I tax it constantly with 3D renderings and video conversions.
I've got an old Core2Duo ET7400 2.8ghz cpu and an Nvidia 9600gt gfx card. Running 2 clients at the moment with no problems at all. Don't think it's Incarna mate.
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Atticus Fynch
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:42:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sir Hillary If it melts, something in your rig was inadequate or faulty.
Yes, the POS software running in it was "inadequate or faulty." _ _________ _ "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it." |
Frio Rinah
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:43:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Frio Rinah on 22/06/2011 14:44:28 Edited by: Frio Rinah on 22/06/2011 14:44:06
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Clean rig, never overclocked (I don't believe in it, it shortens the lifespan of your hardware) and had extra fans.
Ambient (room) temperature? Keep in mind its summer, which means higher air & room temperatures, which means significantly increased computer temperatures. Tech forums are, predictably, filled with a lot more temperature questions and problems during the summer months.
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NeoTheo
M'8'S
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
I agree, our system is prone to abuse (the hot coffee label is a great example) but I 'd rather have that no protection mechanism in place at all.
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Signal11th
Versatech Co.
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:45:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Syn Fatelyng
Originally by: Signal11th When I can play ARMA2 BFBC2 pretty much on full settings with no problem but my psu goes crazy loading the CQ it tells me there's seems to be an undue amount of stress on my rig due to this piece of software.
But that's the problem. It's a lack of direction.
Let's say your power supply is specced to run at 700W. Normally, it only goes to 530W. However, this 3D intensive EVE update forces your GPU and CPU to work at their top-rated levels (using 3GHz on a 3GHz CPU instead of 2GHz). This in turn causes you to draw more power and you hit 680. Suddenly, your computer blacks out.
Why? Your powersupply couldn't handle the power draw that it was listed as, or you didn't clean out the power supply to handle additional heat.
Although I semi-agree with this post, my power supply works fine, Incarna works fine for me but why should this specific area of EVE cause such a problem, as I stated previously I can play pretty much any new/ish game full spec and not have a problem and I load CQ walk around a bit my PSU sounds like a ticking bomb.
Are you suggesting that the small part of EVE that is CQ is more intensive than Crysis 2/Metro on full whack? If so I think CCP needs to look at it's programming department.
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Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:46:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Daelorn
Originally by: Copine Callmeknau I installed Incarna and all I got was these two lousy BSOD's then my CPU melted.
Seriosuly though, I had to UNDERCLOCK my goddamn computer to get EVE running stable again. I'd really like to know why CCP have given me the choice between shilling out hundreds on watercooling or having my RAM run at half speed (1066mhz is stable and I am not a happy panda >_<)
****in barbie online should not cook stock systems to death. I'm not overclocking and I keep my system clean, I shouldn't be worrying about my core i7 hitting goddamn 80deg C during a silly online game.
80c is still safe but...
Are you using stock fan? Blame Intel, stock fan sucks. Is the heatsink seated properly? Is the thermal paste applied properly, including a proper ammount?
Stock sink, and yes the TIM is applied correctly and the heatsink installed carefully.
It's not so much that I can get around the issue, it's more that CCP have obviously released messy code that eats much more CPU power than it needs.
Also, I never saw anywhere on the minimum specs for EVE 'You must have expensive aftermarket cooling and high end TIM'
I use this comp for rendering, FP calculations, and gaming. I have never, ever seen temps as high as this, and I have never in my life been forced to underclock a system to run a friggin game. ...oh wait
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
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Syn Fatelyng
Galactic Eden Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:47:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: Sir Hillary If it melts, something in your rig was inadequate or faulty.
Yes, the POS software running in it was "inadequate or faulty."
Let me tell you something neat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime95
This is a program where the entire purpose of it is to bring your CPU up to 100% processing, and keep it there for extended periods of time. Why would people run this? Because it is standard procedure for people who build custom computers to make sure their hardware is stable and without fault. Running Prime95 for 24 hours with no errors was a sure sign that you had a stable CPU that could run at 100% (at the speed you purchased it) without fail. If it failed, you sent it back and explained how it was defective.
That is what CQ is doing to your hardware. It is forcing them to run at the speed you purchased it, and the hardware is failing. The hardware is defective, not the software.
If I am making myself unclear, please mention it and I'll attempt to reword things. If you simply disagree, then I'm afraid there's nothing to continue.
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Sir Hillary
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:48:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: Sir Hillary If it melts, something in your rig was inadequate or faulty.
Yes, the POS software running in it was "inadequate or faulty."
You just keep telling yourself that. Becuase it isn't at all possible that some component was near death and was pushed over the edge by the extra load.
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Signal11th
Versatech Co.
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:50:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Daelorn
Originally by: Signal11th but my psu goes crazy loading the CQ it tells me there's seems to be an undue amount of stress on my rig due to this piece of software.
What does that even mean? Your GPU and CPU can only hit 100% load. Your computer should be able to handle 100% all the time. If it can't then you indeed do have an unstable computer.
But... I know you will argue with me and everyone else that tries to say anything opposed to your viewpoint.
I do wish people would read the post first!
I don't have a problem with my rig Incarna works perfectly fine for me I have "no" problems
All I said is that CQ draws and drops more power from my PSU than anything else on my system I didn't say I was having a problem I was using it as a pointer for other people that are having problems.
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Atticus Fynch
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:50:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 22/06/2011 14:51:01 Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 22/06/2011 14:50:07
Originally by: Frio Rinah
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: Harcosi
Clean rig, never overclocked (I don't believe in it, it shortens the lifespan of your hardware) and had extra fans.
Ambient (room) temperature? Keep in mind its summer, which means higher air & room temperatures, which means significantly increased computer temperatures.
Tech forums are, predictably, filled with a lot more temperature questions and problems during the summer months.
In doors. A/C running kept at 65F (19C) I'm not completely ignorant of computers. I've worked in IT, held an A+ years ago and have a degree in computer programming and I build my own rigs being very selective of hardware. RTsumT aside, I'm not an expert but I do think I know what I'm talking about.
As for the rigs out there that are doing fine, I'm happy for you but apparently there is something in Incarna that doesn't play well with various hardware configurations or their drivers.
EDIT: Or maybe it's just a resource hog, plain and simple. _ _________ _ "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it." |
Auss81
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:53:00 -
[45]
C'mon, I use my PC, which is high end, for every game, 3D/2D work programs and even Flight Simulator X with Payware Addons and online on VATSIM.
I've never had a problem and all my "custom" cooling fans works pretty well without stress even for 4 hours or more (during a flight from Stockolm to Palermo, for example).
Yesterday night I istalled Incarna, launched the game and after 10 minutes in the CQ my CPU's fan and my HD5870's fan gone full speed like crazy!! This is absolutely insane!!
You can say everything You want, but I rest my case: Incarna has something to do spinning full up my system! It seems like an aircraft's turbine itself! Never happened peviously!
This is for me "exremely" irritating and worring to just view 4 useless walls in the CQ.
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The Snowman
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:53:00 -
[46]
its the hardware thats failed not the software. lol
Why do you think they disabled all that ATI stuff. because anyone who buys an ATI needs protecting from themselves.
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Syn Fatelyng
Galactic Eden Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:53:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Atticus Fynch RTsumT aside, I'm not an expert but I do think I know what I'm talking about.
And I'm sure you do. The issue here isn't your choices, but the possibility of defective hardware.
You could have picked out the objectively best hardware for EVE Incarna and there's still the change that the hardware is defective on arrival, or is defective in a way that makes it under perform. That is not your fault. That is hardware that needs to be returned for a stable model.
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Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams The KWFL Republic
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
As for the rigs out there that are doing fine, I'm happy for you but apparently there is something in Incarna that doesn't play well with various hardware configurations or their drivers.
This
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence ...oh wait
Stunning EVE Online Theme for PS3 |
daddys helper
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Posted - 2011.06.22 14:54:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Milo Caman
Four Words: End User License Agreement
/thread
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Iscariot Ra
Caldari Mimidae Risk Solutions
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Posted - 2011.06.22 15:10:00 -
[50]
Originally by: daddys helper
Originally by: Milo Caman
Four Words: End User License Agreement
/thread
Bwahahaha. First, that's hilarious. Second, QFT.
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ItchyTrizzaFingerNizza
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Posted - 2011.06.22 15:16:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Atticus Fynch Three words:
Class Action Lawsuit
How this plays out in the international arena, I don't know. But it wouldn't surprise me if some smart EVE playing lawyer is putting a case together right now, while the lawyers at CCP are recommending complete silence on the matter as seen in the forums.
Software that blows your rig? C'mon.
Then you have the cheerleaders saying it's your fault (the consumer) for having an inferior rig. LOLOLOL!!!!
The emperor has not freakin clothes on, CCP.
Bro... your cheek bones...
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.22 15:17:00 -
[52]
People setting their stuff to "intervall immediate" should expect damaged cards btw....its been that way for most games btw
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.06.22 15:18:00 -
[53]
If the patch really did result in a huge number of players burning up hardware they would end up being liable.
I seriously doubt that more than a few people(maybe 20?) actually burned up their PC.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.22 15:28:00 -
[54]
Class action lawsuit indeed.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the internet.
Quote: DISCLAIMER OF DAMAGES In no event shall CCP, its affiliates, licensors or suppliers be liable to you or to any third party for any special, indirect, incidental, consequential, punitive or exemplary damages (including without limitation, lost profits or lost data), arising out of or in connection with your Account, the System, Software, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, or any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, whether based on warranty, contract, tort or any other legal theory, and whether or not CCP is advised of the possibility of such damages, and even if any stated remedy fails of its essential purpose.
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY Except as set forth below, CCP's maximum liability for any and all claims arising out of or in connection with your Account, the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, and any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, shall not exceed an amount equal to the value of one (1) month's subscription fees.
. Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Atticus Fynch
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.22 15:38:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 22/06/2011 15:39:43
Originally by: Cipher Jones Class action lawsuit indeed.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the internet.
Quote: DISCLAIMER OF DAMAGES In no event shall CCP, its affiliates, licensors or suppliers be liable to you or to any third party for any special, indirect, incidental, consequential, punitive or exemplary damages (including without limitation, lost profits or lost data), arising out of or in connection with your Account, the System, Software, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, or any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, whether based on warranty, contract, tort or any other legal theory, and whether or not CCP is advised of the possibility of such damages, and even if any stated remedy fails of its essential purpose.
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY Except as set forth below, CCP's maximum liability for any and all claims arising out of or in connection with your Account, the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, and any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, shall not exceed an amount equal to the value of one (1) month's subscription fees.
Thanks for posting this.
I have no idea how this works on the international law scene, but sometimes such contracts can be deemed invalid if the party in question can be proved to have acted in a negligent manner.
In other words, a "we are not responsible" disclaimer does not free them from responsibility if their coders where coding while drinking beer, or they released an expansion knowing full well of its bugs and potentially damaging effects (which they often do...let's be honest).
But after reading (the disclaimer) this, anyone in their right mind would refuse to give CCP any more of their business.
We ultimately are customer paying for a service. CCP sees us as bug hunters and beta testers. Professionalism and respect towards customer base has been breached.
We are nothing more now than a cash cow.
Mass exodus in progress. _ _________ _ "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it." |
Haulie Berry
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Posted - 2011.06.22 15:45:00 -
[56]
I'd like someone to provide a good, technical explanation of how Incarna can magically make a GPU run beyond its capacity.
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Aeveen
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.22 15:48:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: Sir Hillary If it melts, something in your rig was inadequate or faulty.
Yes, the POS software running in it was "inadequate or faulty."
You might want to educate yourself on how hardware and drivers work. Your looking like a complete moron.
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Zed Jackelope
Original Sin.
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Posted - 2011.06.22 15:49:00 -
[58]
i agree with everything in this thread I am not one of Awesome Possum's alts |
So'rren
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Posted - 2011.06.22 15:52:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Aeveen Edited by: Aeveen on 22/06/2011 15:49:52
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: Sir Hillary If it melts, something in your rig was inadequate or faulty.
Yes, the POS software running in it was "inadequate or faulty."
You might want to educate yourself on how hardware and drivers work. Your looking like a complete moron. Hardware that does not auto shut off before damage is the hardware's fault. Feel free to go on your uneducated rant. It's amusing how ignorant people like you are.
You might want to educate yourself on software engineering design standards and practices. You're looking like a complete ass.
NEVER push hardware this hard, lest you remove part of your market or break common OEM configurations. Especially when it's something that should have been optimized before release. Unoptimized software leads to these kinds of issues.
Should have been caught in testing or compat.
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Mr Majestyk
Combat and Recon The Last Chancers.
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Posted - 2011.06.22 15:53:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Mr Majestyk on 22/06/2011 15:54:43
Originally by: Daelorn
Originally by: Signal11th but my psu goes crazy loading the CQ it tells me there's seems to be an undue amount of stress on my rig due to this piece of software.
What does that even mean? Your GPU and CPU can only hit 100% load. Your computer should be able to handle 100% all the time. If it can't then you indeed do have an unstable computer.
But... I know you will argue with me and everyone else that tries to say anything opposed to your viewpoint.
The part in bold is actually false. Your There is a difference between 100% usage and full load. Anyone good overclocker will tell you that there are multiple stages of 100% load. For example stability testing with Prime95 yields temperatures 10-15C lower than with Linpack. Both cause the CPU to go to 100% usage but one uses it more, more heat more usage.
Hyperthreading is another thing. Technically if you have 4 physical cores but 8 logical cores each core is doing twice as many operations per time as without hyperthreading. Same 100% usage but twice as much real work being done. I know hyperthreading doesn't double performance but the point is the same.
Point being like most people said a lot of manufacturers make crappy stuff. Anyone that had hardware fail due to regular software use, CQ or SC2 menu, means your hardware was not adequately cooled/maintained.
To the poster above: It is the developers job to push the hardware to its limits. It is the manufacturers job to make sure the hardware they sell can run at its limits, otherwise lower the specs.
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