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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.23 20:34:00 -
[1]
Hey there gents.
The scanning formulas changed fundamentally. My apologies that the patch notes didn't convey that very well.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.23 21:25:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Heitaro Kimura Edited by: Heitaro Kimura on 23/06/2011 20:52:58
Originally by: CCP Veritas Hey there gents.
The scanning formulas changed fundamentally. My apologies that the patch notes didn't convey that very well.
By "didn't convey that very well", you mean "not at all"?
Yeah, pretty much. Some things got dropped on the editing room floor and I apologize for not noticing that sooner.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.23 21:33:00 -
[3]
Originally by: BeanBagKing And you still haven't given us any idea of how they changed.
We noticed that it was left out and all we've gotten is acknowledgements, how about giving us the real scoop on what was supposed to be put in the patch notes.
They changed...a lot. We never released the details of the old formulas, I don't see any reason to change that. Consider it a fun puzzle, like sorting out quantum mechanics.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 00:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Ugh.
Well, time to stop scanning for a few weeks (months) until some other brave people figure it out and write a new guide.
Well that's a bit melodramatic don't you think?
All the old ideas are still correct - get probes out, surround your target with them, narrow in from there. Just use more than four probes cause probe 5 and above help now.
That the formula pumping the numbers changed doesn't mean the guiding principals changed.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 00:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: daddys helper
Originally by: CCP Veritas They changed...a lot. We never released the details of the old formulas, I don't see any reason to change that. Consider it a fun puzzle, like sorting out quantum mechanics.
so you're saying you have no idea either
Well, I coded it, so I'm pretty sure I know it rather intimately.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Zachstar
Oh By the way I tried your "You can use more probes now" thing.
Located a site to be found with 4 got to 3.2 percent launched a 5th and guess what? still 3.2 percent.
IF what you said was correct that 5th probe ought to have given more towards the percent no?
Care to explain?
Edit2: Just tried with 7 and guess what? Three Point Two Percent
Could you post screen shots of your probe placement please? It would help me to explain.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Fighter26 Spoonfed? A simple patch notes statement: "Scan probe formula has changed." is sufficient.
FWIW, I agree with you completely. Somewhere along the line that statement got changed and I'm deeply sorry that I did not notice it sooner.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: MisterAl tt1
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Could you post screen shots of your probe placement please? It would help me to explain.
My screenshots with 4 and 8 probes giving the same are on the 1st page of the topic. The case is it "works" only when all the probes and the sig is on the same horyzon.
Well... Looks like I write it the third time. Surprised you didn't see it.
Anyway, thank you for cooperation.
I did see yours MisterAl - I don't need anything more from you to look at it. I'll be back once I've made certain what I think is going on is what's going on.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 09:59:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zachstar I was directly testing your more probes = better deal. So I had 4 probes at 32au around an area of interest. Afterwards I moved probes virtually right on to the others to minimize any effect distance had of effect. Even tho the probes were at the same distance there was no increase in scan strength.
Before y'all call me a noob I know you are supposed to move the extra probes into top, bottom and sides but you could do that before because it only showed best result. I was testing the mere idea that more probes = better which I found not to be the case.
What I am suspecting is a reduction in scan strength being coupled with encouragement to use more probes which works like the old system which I find at best silly.
So you had multiple probes in the same (rough) position? Indeed, repeats like that aren't going to help.
Another way of wording my point about 8 probes is that the previous system would take the best 4 (kinda...it was a little bad about that choice actually), while the new system will use information from all 8. If the information from some of them is redundant, then they may as well not be there, but if there's any additional information from them at all, then they will help, all the way up to the last one.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 10:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rek Seven Edited by: Rek Seven on 24/06/2011 09:56:07 CCP Veritas,
I'm just annoyed that my abilities have been lowered.
I don't remember the exploration tutorial saying only 4 probes count so i trained up so i could use 7 and i used 7 probes to pin a sig down even before the patch.
If i understand what has bee said in this thread correctly, i now have to train for 8 probes to give me the same scan strength that i previously had.
Do you think this is fair considering that i have remapped away from scanning related skills?
Before the patch, scanning results were based on the best 4 hits for any given target. When tracking down something in particular, having 4 out in a good configuration was the best you could do.
Now the best you can do is having 8 out in a good configuration. It's balanced roughly so that 6-or-so is about the same as 4 used to be. So...assuming you set your 7 up to give good coverage of the target, you'll probably be getting better results than you used to. Training up so you can launch 8 would make them even better.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 10:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Skippermonkey tbh, i dont even know why they changed scanning, it was runnign farily well as it was.
I suppose I can let that reason be known. I'm a performance guy; I fix lag. My interest in changing scanning is purely because it needed to be changed for technical reasons.
The old algorithm was horrifically inefficient at scale. There was no way I could fix the scaling without changing the behavior of it, so I wrote them ground-up to be scalable while keeping the original design goals intact.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 10:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zachstar Once you get that working may I request a feature then? Have you noticed Veritas that it is becoming even more of a clickfest? Is there a way you can make it where all probes can close in or widen on themselves by some key combo? Such as how shift click moves all in direction I request them to move in as this becomes quite the issue when dealing with the tiny tiny spaces after 0.25
Team BFF did that in one of their recent releases. Control-drag will change your world man.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 10:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: MisterAl tt1 Seems like I have to appologise to Veritas for being very persistent. I'm sorry.
Well, the idea that redundant probes does not contribute is clear. Then, may we assume that for probes on the same horyzon the signal over some point is considered "not valid" and thus to get a better signal strenght we need to either put probes closer with smaller radius, or move some probes up and down?
This would explain my screenshots.
Yes, you're on the right track. Essentially the large-radius probes aren't telling your scanning computer anything that the smaller-radius probes didn't already know.
If you brought them down to the same radius as the small-radius probes and in to the same distance from the target, they would be contributing. They would contribute even more if moved further away from the existing probes (up and down, in your case).
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 10:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zachstar
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Originally by: Zachstar Once you get that working may I request a feature then? Have you noticed Veritas that it is becoming even more of a clickfest? Is there a way you can make it where all probes can close in or widen on themselves by some key combo? Such as how shift click moves all in direction I request them to move in as this becomes quite the issue when dealing with the tiny tiny spaces after 0.25
Team BFF did that in one of their recent releases. Control-drag will change your world man.
Side question and being completely noob here. Do I hold control and click to move a probe to move them all in and out at the same time? I am likely confused but that isn't working for me.
The caffeine hadn't set in yet. It's Alt, not control.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.06.24 11:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: MisterAl tt1 PS. Forwarded this info to the eve-ru forums.
Thank you very much for that. For my part, I'm going to get these ideas expressed in devblog form which'll get translated of course. I intended to have such a devblog ready for the release but I let other things take my attention instead. That's my fault.
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