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Kuolematon
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Posted - 2005.02.16 23:13:00 -
[1]
Is it true that they will now nerf Amarr after they upped Minmatars? I mean nerffing Mega Pulses? I have done plenty of lvl4 missions in my Apoc and well, I can say that it kinda sucks because still at the very moment they hit poorly. Sure I now that much great skills but still they hit ****. So once you nerf those, us with low skills will face problems. Perhaps I should learn raven skills because its only viable lvl4 agent runner _______________________________________________ My opinions aren't my corporations opinions.
(\_/) (x.x) This is what's left of Bunny, the rest tasted delicious. |
Bodomin
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Posted - 2005.02.16 23:40:00 -
[2]
Can I have your Amarr stuff then? |
Gierling
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Posted - 2005.02.16 23:45:00 -
[3]
You do realize that the Mega pulse has better tracking then MEDIUM hybrid turrets right?
You do realize it does about Blaster damage from 0 to 60km right?
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Arimas Talasko
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Posted - 2005.02.17 00:08:00 -
[4]
Yep get a raven. Megapulses are overpowered and need to be nerfed. This coming from an Amarr only pilot (also pilots raxes). Supremacy Keepin it Real |
David Goodwill
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Posted - 2005.02.17 00:15:00 -
[5]
lmao, I flew my new Geddon with its megapulses for the first time tonight, within 5 minutes of beating up a corp mate I had a hit of about 350. And this was with pretty newbie gunnery skills compared to most people. I dread to think what it would be if I built up my large energy turret and sharpshooter! -----------------------------
Mating call of a pirate...
"rarrggghhh, omg r0x0r, ph34r meeeee"
Average age: 12.. |
Damajink
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Posted - 2005.02.17 00:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Gierling You do realize that the Mega pulse has better tracking then MEDIUM hybrid turrets right?
You do realize it does about Blaster damage from 0 to 60km right?
You do realise this means hybrids need a boost, right?
Boost, don't nerf!
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Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2005.02.17 01:08:00 -
[7]
Megapulses were never meant to be as good as they are just as Hybrids and Projectiles were never meant to be as pi$$poor as they are.
Sorry but you can't have your cake and tank it too. -----
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Lallante
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Posted - 2005.02.17 01:49:00 -
[8]
I think its quite likely there will be some minor range changes with megapulses in the next 2 months.
Not a major nerf
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
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Trepkos
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Posted - 2005.02.17 03:43:00 -
[9]
It better not be a major nerf. I like my armageddon, I like the fact that its a nice powerful gunboat. I like the fact that I can do 350 dmg on average in a gankageddon setup.
Please dont ruin the armageddon as a power damage dealing gunboat. Boost the other turrets, because ships like the megathron, dominix and tempest and such.
If you can not beat a gankageddon then maybe you should go back to flying cruisers.
I hope this nerf doesnt affect anything but the range, which I hope I can still hit from 10km to 60km, depending on the crystals. ------------------ What can I lose? My dignity...every single inch of it.
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2005.02.17 05:02:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Harry Voyager on 17/02/2005 05:13:46
Originally by: Gierling You do realize that the Mega pulse has better tracking then MEDIUM hybrid turrets right?
You do realize it does about Blaster damage from 0 to 60km right?
That's just to compensate for the sig radius effect. If you check, all Large short range turrets have higher tracking than their Medium counterparts, ussually by a huge margine. Mega Pulse's have only about 60% the tracking of the other short Range large turrets in the game.
The introduction of sig radius into hit calculations *really* screwed up large turrets. It used to be MPL had a tracking of 0.0067 rad/s, not the 0.027 rad/s they've got now. It's just when they made Large turrets have a resolution of 400m they suddenly needed insane tracking just to hit battleships (sig radius from 320-400).
Mediums didn't get nailed as badly, because they got pinned with a 125m sig resolution, being compaired to targets that rated 130-140m sig radius, thus they never needed the same massive increases in tracking to compensate for it.
Harry Voyager
Addendum:
I just took a look at the ranges I've got for the old lasers.
1 Year ago in Lasers:
Mega Beam: 2.75x Damage Mod, 9.00s RoF, 40km Opt, 16km Falloff, 0.0033 Tracking, 70 Cap, 55 CPU, 3250 MW grid
Mega Pulse: 2.5x Damage Mod, 7.88 RoF, 20km Opt, 8km Fall off, 0.0067 Tracking, 55 Cap, 50 CPU, 2500 MW
Mega Beam norm: 0.3055x mod, (40km/16km), 0.0033r/s Mega Pulse norm: 0.3173x mod, (20km/8km), 0.0067r/s
1400mm norm: 0.2116x mod, (40km/60km), 0.00167r/s 800mm norm: 0.2778x mod, (4km/22km), 0.011r/s
425mm norm: 0.2877x mod, (48km/24km), 0.00278r/s Neutron Blaster: 0.4442x mod, (6km/18km), 0.011r/s
Looks like lasers recieved more than a little love in the past year...
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2005.02.17 05:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Arimas Talasko This coming from an Amarr only pilot (also pilots raxes).
What ARE you talking about?
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Selim
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Posted - 2005.02.17 06:36:00 -
[12]
Well, I think megapulse should have a max range of 30km with all skills + radio crystals. Its still miles ahead of blasters and autocannons.
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Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2005.02.17 08:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Selim Well, I think megapulse should have a max range of 30km with all skills + radio crystals. Its still miles ahead of blasters and autocannons.
If they get cut back down to their old 0.31 damage mod with 24 EM Radios, then their 50km max range won't be as overpowering as it is now.
Remember, guns with a 40km base range have normalized 0.287 damage mod now.
Harry Voyager
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.02.17 08:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Selim Well, I think megapulse should have a max range of 30km with all skills + radio crystals. Its still miles ahead of blasters and autocannons.
Gah, bit too much there. But thats my opinion.
- MP optimal of 18-20 - tone the Radio crystal down, to 22 EM - up the dmg mods of Electron and Ion blasters a bit. - take a look at the longer range ammos for Hybrids
Little tiny changes in each case, and it should (hopefully) all add up nicely.
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2005.02.17 10:17:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Darkwolf on 17/02/2005 10:25:58 Edited by: Darkwolf on 17/02/2005 10:19:11
Originally by: Harry Voyager That's just to compensate for the sig radius effect. If you check, all Large short range turrets have higher tracking than their Medium counterparts, ussually by a huge margine.
Wow, now that must have involved some serious rear-end extraction to pull that one out.
Heavy neutron blaster = 0.1 rad/sec Neutron blaster cannon = 0.0433 rad/sec
Heavy ion blaster = 0.11 rad/sec Ion blaster cannon = 0.046 rad/sec
250mm railgun = 0.023 rad/sec 425mm railgun = 0.009625 rad/sec
720mm Howitzer = 0.022 rad/sec 1400mm Howitzer = 0.009 rad/sec
425mm autocannon = 0.1056 rad/sec 800mm repeating artillery = 0.0432 rad/sec
Heavy pulse laser = 0.065 rad/sec Mega pulse laser = 0.027 rad/sec
Funny. Looks to me like pretty much every large weapon actually has LESS tracking than its medium counterpart...
Also note that the mega pulse beats a 250mm railgun in tracking by a fair bit. Whilst its tracking isn't as high as the large blasters, it's effective over a MUCH wider range, and when comparing its tracking versus range, it's way better than anything else in the large category.
However, I will say that your comments on the sig radius thing double-nerfing large turrets is completely accurate. Large turrets get hammered both because of sig radius requiring them to have higher tracking to hit, and they have bad tracking to start with.
Frankly, the situation was fine before they introduced this sig radius insanity.
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HeLlRaIzA666
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Posted - 2005.02.17 10:17:00 -
[16]
Edited by: HeLlRaIzA666 on 17/02/2005 10:17:18 how abt boosting mega pulse
well anyways, i think mega pulse should stay the same, just make blasters use little less cap plus little more dmg, and all will be well --------------------------------------------
In War There Are No Runners Up...
Image by Denrace |
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
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Posted - 2005.02.17 11:30:00 -
[17]
Or maybe remove Beam Lasers from the game entirely, noone seems to be using (much less needing them) anyway....
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Sassi
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Posted - 2005.02.17 11:35:00 -
[18]
Boost hybrids up by a quarter of a ton, keep projectiles as they are cuz they just got their boost a short while ago, keep lasers as they are and.....then I think all should be fine. Almost all :)
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Kuolematon
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Posted - 2005.02.17 12:51:00 -
[19]
Yeah they should up hybrids abit and cut down cap need for 50%. But still, nerffing isn't only solution.
Btw, what happened to armor and shield boost for ships? _______________________________________________ My opinions aren't my corporations opinions.
(\_/) (x.x) This is what's left of Bunny, the rest tasted delicious. |
Lucre
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Posted - 2005.02.17 13:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Or maybe remove Beam Lasers from the game entirely, noone seems to be using (much less needing them) anyway....
I must be imagining the 8 megabeams on my level 4 sniperPoc...
Problem is, as somone noted on another thread, the warp in ranges dictate that most engagements take place at 15-60 km - prime megapulse range. Provide a longer (or shorter) warp in range and you might see more people using other guns more.
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Conmen
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Posted - 2005.02.20 06:56:00 -
[21]
um when figureing out dmaage mods include ship skill not sure if yah did but if yah didnt it should be looked at :)
WE ARE THE UBER LEET !*TH CENTURY RP CORP !*THCENTURY STYLE BABY. THANK YOU SHEEDZOR FOR THIS SIG GET PREPARED EVE TO BE WTFOWN |
Abigale
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Posted - 2005.02.20 11:04:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Abigale on 20/02/2005 11:05:02
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hylleX
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Posted - 2005.02.20 11:05:00 -
[23]
Im a MP user, always have been or laser anyway. My conclusion, if they go hard on nerf all we gonna c is more ravens, i know i will fly one, a couple weeks training and im a decent raven pilot. Just 2bad i have most my sp in gunnery since it seems all guns must suck in order for ppl to be happy, make ppl happy boost the hybrids a bit instead. Maybe remove the rof bonus on geddon but thats it imo. Anyway Raven 4tw!
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Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2005.02.20 11:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: hylleX Im a MP user, always have been or laser anyway. My conclusion, if they go hard on nerf all we gonna c is more ravens, i know i will fly one, a couple weeks training and im a decent raven pilot. Just 2bad i have most my sp in gunnery since it seems all guns must suck in order for ppl to be happy, make ppl happy boost the hybrids a bit instead. Maybe remove the rof bonus on geddon but thats it imo. Anyway Raven 4tw!
missiles are going to get nerfed 2, so you better go with mega
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
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throbbinnoggin
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Posted - 2005.02.20 13:53:00 -
[25]
It's sad to see so many people calling for a nerf instead of pushing harder for enhancing other weapons, ie: hybrids. IMO the only things overpowering about the megapulse are its broad range of firepower and the Armageddons ROF bonus.
I see so many people here asking for an optimal nerf of 18-20k down from 28k. That is way too drastic. Think of it: thats a 28-35% nerf. Way too much. 24k is more reasonable allowing for a 48k optimal with radio and maxxed out sharpshooter (currently 56k). This is supposed to be a medium range gun. Not short. If the optimal gets lowered any more than that, the tracking should be increased to compensate. But I'd much rather it hold its place as a medium range weapon.
Everyone knows the power of the Geddons rof bonus (25% at bs lvl 5 being equal to a 33% damage bonus). I was considering asking peoples opinion regarding changing the Geddon's bonus to a 5% damage per lvl, but I like the ROF bonus. It gives the ship a bit different personality if you will. How about a slight change in bonus? Say lowering it to 4% (equal to a 25% damage bonus maxxed). This would put it in line with other ships that have damage bonus's while retaining its identity and not horribly nerfing it.
Someone spoke on this thread about lowering the megapulse DPS modifier to as low as 0.31 down from its current 0.38 baseline. This would be a mistake. That would make it weaker than the megabeam at 0.33. All other races short range weapons have greater DOT than their long range counterparts. This should not change with Amarr.
The gist of it is to make small changes, then see their effect and refine it if still neccesary. Not broad scoping nerfs that turn a good weapon into an items bin bookend. I remember when I started out in this game the most common response to the question "how should I fit my Apoc?" being a sarcastic "8 mining laser 2's. I would rather not see a return to that.
Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. 'Abraham Lincoln'
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2005.02.20 16:20:00 -
[26]
i hope they nerf one of the megapulse options. Game will be more fun that way. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante |
Shirei
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Posted - 2005.02.20 16:24:00 -
[27]
Originally by: throbbinnoggin I see so many people here asking for an optimal nerf of 18-20k down from 28k. That is way too drastic. Think of it: thats a 28-35% nerf. Way too much. 24k is more reasonable allowing for a 48k optimal with radio and maxxed out sharpshooter (currently 56k). This is supposed to be a medium range gun. Not short. If the optimal gets lowered any more than that, the tracking should be increased to compensate. But I'd much rather it hold its place as a medium range weapon.
If it is supposed to be a medium range weapon, it should not have the DOT of a short range weapon.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.02.20 16:35:00 -
[28]
"I see so many people here asking for an optimal nerf of 18-20k down from 28k. That is way too drastic. Think of it: thats a 28-35% nerf. Way too much. 24k is more reasonable allowing for a 48k optimal with radio and maxxed out sharpshooter (currently 56k). This is supposed to be a medium range gun. Not short."
Well, for one thing 20 km was the optimal range of the mega pulses before they got boosted. If a 'nerf' of this scale is "drastic" then how would you call the very boost which brought that optimal to where it currently is? :s
And second, 20 km optimal is medium range -- it's the exact half of the optimal of long range turrets (mega beams and 1400's ... hybrids are supposed to be 'extreme' long range so their optimal is greater, and so is the one on tachyons which are supposed to be 'uber' laser)
If you want "short" range then you don't need to look farther than blasters and autocannons with their 3-6k optimal...
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.02.20 17:02:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 20/02/2005 17:04:05
Originally by: throbbinnoggin This is supposed to be a medium range gun. Not short. If the optimal gets lowered any more than that, the tracking should be increased to compensate. But I'd much rather it hold its place as a medium range weapon.
...
Someone spoke on this thread about lowering the megapulse DPS modifier to as low as 0.31 down from its current 0.38 baseline. This would be a mistake. That would make it weaker than the megabeam at 0.33. All other races short range weapons have greater DOT than their long range counterparts. This should not change with Amarr.
Plz elaborate more...
It's a medium gun, and needs to remain that, yet giving it a damage mod lower then that of a short range gun (who typically have twice the dot of medium range guns), is unacceptable ?
This flawed thinking is exactly what is wrong with megapulse users that don't see the fault in their guns.
one more time: 1. lower range to make it fit into the short range weapon category (doesnt have to be as low as autos and blasters, but at most 18km base optimal before skills. Tracking would need a boost yes). Higher fitting reqs would be needed too.
2. lower damage and tracking to make it fit into the medium weapon range. A modifier of 0.31 would actually still be much too high for that.
Medium range weapons are not supposed to do high damage. Medium range covers 90% of the ranges at which encounters happen in this game. (gates, stations, whatever). Any weapon dominating at this range owns combat, like we now see with megapulses.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.02.20 18:01:00 -
[30]
"Plz elaborate more...
It's a medium gun, and needs to remain that, yet giving it a damage mod lower then that of a short range gun (who typically have twice the dot of medium range guns), is unacceptable ?"
I think he meant that for any gun type the short range version has (normalized) damage modifier larger than the long range version. And if mega pulse was nerfed to the point where its damage modifier is 0.31 then it would be doing less damage than mega beam which has the modifier of 0.33
That argument is however overlooking that the guns in Eve apparently follow different model: high damage for short range turrets, low damage for medium range turrets, medium damage for long range turrets ... as seen with hybrids and projectiles -- the normalized damage modifier for medium range versions of these weapons is somewhere between 0.2-0.25.. but that's another story which on the other hand doesn't really have to apply, since mega pulse seems to be some sort of middle ground between other weapons' medium and short range. And if their optimal was also between the optimals for short- and middle- range guns of other types, then their current damage would actually make sense... o.O;
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