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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.16 11:29:00 -
[1]
Agents & Missions Agent Quality has been removed meaning that all Agents are now +20 in terms of payout and -20 in terms of access. Go forth, Capsuleers, and explore the world outside of Motsu and Dodixie. Agent Divisions have been simplified from 20 down to just 3. The new Security, Distribution and Mining divisions now provide uniform types of missions instead of a mission type that was percentage based.
Now the big question is if players will just to continue on with their current agents out of habit, or if this will really help to prevent mission hub system over-crowding.
Or, how long will it take people to even notice that there was any change in the first place? ;)
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Darth Emu Ohmiras
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Posted - 2011.05.16 11:47:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Darth Emu Ohmiras on 16/05/2011 11:47:31 Since they are mission runners, they must be stupid, ignorant people to all changes in game play amirite?
For Matari missions, nothing will change, the mission hubs were in 0.5 and they continue to be the hot spots. Caldari runners may move, but where systems like Motsu would fall out of favor, Uuhualen, Irjunn etc will just become more packed.
All serious high sec mission running after this patch will most likely be taking place in 0.5 systems.
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2011.05.16 11:53:00 -
[3]
Is all* this really in the works and if so, why? Don't run many missions myself lately but I remember the sheet load of grinding I had to take to get my current agents. :3 Isn't this dumbing EVE down?
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Generals4
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Posted - 2011.05.16 11:54:00 -
[4]
Hmm i should check into 0.1-0.2 sec lvl 4 agents i guess.
My question is: what will happen with my connection skills :|
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Darth Emu Ohmiras
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Posted - 2011.05.16 11:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Generals4
My question is: what will happen with my connection skills :|
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=909
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.16 11:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Serpents smile
Is all* this really in the works and if so, why? Don't run many missions myself lately but I remember the sheet load of grinding I had to take to get my current agents. :3 Isn't this dumbing EVE down?
It's in the patch notes for tomorrow's patch. ;)
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Generals4
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Posted - 2011.05.16 11:59:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Generals4 on 16/05/2011 11:59:17
Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras
Originally by: Generals4
My question is: what will happen with my connection skills :|
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=909
Thank you, i feel silly now :(
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:03:00 -
[8]
Well I guess this will make it less of a hassle to find worthwhile agents nearby your current location.
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Hathrul
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:03:00 -
[9]
im mainly wondering how this will affect the R&D agents?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:06:00 -
[10]
Meh, everybody will just cluster in regions close to a 0.5 sec rating without many lowsec nearby where several desirable agents are located. They should consider also switching from a "truesec influence on rewards" to a "security class influence on rewards" instead (and maybe make lowsec rewards higher than 0.0 rewards, with highsec rewards obviously lowest). Alternatively, make the reward be based NOT on system sec of agent, but on lowest system sec involved in the mission (so, even if you have a highsec agent, if mission leads to lowsec, that should pay better than one that leads to highsec). _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hathrul im mainly wondering how this will affect the R&D agents?
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Originally by: suki cox I hope this doesnt completely moot all the grinding for R&D agents ive been doing...
Research and Development agents are unchanged.
There will be a blog coming out shortly regarding the skill book changes in full.
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Hathrul
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: JC Anderson text here
thanks :)
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T Meh, everybody will just cluster in regions close to a 0.5 sec rating without many lowsec nearby where several desirable agents are located.
100% true!!! I already picked a few formerly low Q agents in 035 systems, it does open up some corporations for some better mission rewards ..
Quote: Alternatively, make the reward be based NOT on system sec of agent, but on lowest system sec involved in the mission (so, even if you have a highsec agent, if mission leads to lowsec, that should pay better than one that leads to highsec).
Absolutely agree. Making a mission to 0.4 pay twice will make people consider the small extra risk for double profit!!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Serpents smile Isn't this dumbing EVE down?
It is, but in this case, I'd say it's worth it. It means people can spread out more and see more of the galaxy, rather than sit in the same five spots as everyone else.
It also (on the surface at least) means that the research you need to do will be a bit more engaging: instead of just opening up the list of agents and pick "the best" one, you can now put more consideration into getting a good mix of clustered agents, finding agents with a good mix of missions, and/or making use of system security to get the most out of them. Granted, this will still lead you back to many of the spots that are already popular, but it should provide a bit more options and a bit more control over what you do.
The really interesting thing to see is if they've done anything to the agents' mission lists, now that they've been restricted to just one type of mission each, or if they will still give out the exact same ones apart from that odd courier missions that some combat agents used to give (or vice versa). If they've fiddled with the missions lists, some agents that were previously popular because they gave great missions might heavily fall out of favour. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:13:00 -
[15]
well only thing I'm sure is that this change is gonna kill gicodel. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Anddeh McNab
Cadre Assault Force
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:18:00 -
[16]
With the hotspots now being 0.5 systems, that should please the suicide gankers There are two sides to the EVE community; those that scream for change and those that scream against it. Often they are the same person. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Anddeh McNab With the hotspots now being 0.5 systems, that should please the suicide gankers
Mehà it's been like that for a while now. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Devblog In general, these divisions and values did little other than adding complexity to an already complex game.
Obvious quote is obvious. Translation: Quote: People play our game because it's complicated. Let's make it less complicated so that we can attract players who like a less complicated game and alienate our core player-base.
Brilliant.
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Lady Aja
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:34:00 -
[19]
some factions now have viable agents " bloods and serps".
fw missions runners will make around 300k lp a day not 200k lp a day.
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Justice Comes
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:45:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Justice Comes on 16/05/2011 12:46:46 That's all good and well, but are missions going to be any more dynamic than they are now? Holy snoozefest zzz!
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Lidia Prince
Caldari Caldari Aegis
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:50:00 -
[21]
Quote: -20 in terms of access
Erm, don't quite get it. Does this mean that all agents will require less standing to get missions from em?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:51:00 -
[22]
Well guess my Q-18 agent in 0.5 without low sec anywhere near + belonging to a small corp is useful now. This is definately handy to spread out mission runners a bit, which is required since their numbers will definately increase with all the nerfs to 0.0 income and boosts to high sec income.
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lidia Prince
Quote: -20 in terms of access
Erm, don't quite get it. Does this mean that all agents will require less standing to get missions from em?
From what I am reading, "yes".
Hrm.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lidia Prince
Quote: -20 in terms of access
Erm, don't quite get it. Does this mean that all agents will require less standing to get missions from em?
The old access formula was (Level - 1) × 2 + (Quality / 20).
Now, quality is gone and that second term simply becomes -1 (-20/20). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Serpents smile
Is all* this really in the works and if so, why? Don't run many missions myself lately but I remember the sheet load of grinding I had to take to get my current agents. :3 Isn't this dumbing EVE down?
Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:03:00 -
[26]
CCP Navigator posted that it's been rescheduled for Thursday.. Just an FYI.
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Lidia Prince
Caldari Caldari Aegis
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:08:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Lidia Prince on 16/05/2011 13:12:47 Thanks Tippia and JC Anderson.
Hmmm... don't really know what to think about this. It's pretty neat of course, but won't this force newbie carebears to cluster in systems around Jita? Plus, it was a pain, but I enjoyed finding new agents and relocating all my stuff to their station. Kinda made you move a bit, not just sit in one system all the time.
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Galara Hakari
Caldari NEXUS.LLC
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:17:00 -
[28]
Very interesting change. Can't wait to see how it will affect population balance in my home system.
There is no limit to Perfection... |
JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 16/05/2011 13:12:58
Originally by: Lidia Prince
Quote: -20 in terms of access
Erm, don't quite get it. Does this mean that all agents will require less standing to get missions from em?
The old access formula was (Level - 1) + 2 + (Quality / 20). Now, quality is gone and that second term simply becomes -1 (-20/20).
Or in table form, it used to be that:Agent Required standing L1 Q-20 → -1¦ L1 Q0 → 0 L1 Q20 → 1 L2 Q-20 → 1 L2 Q0 → 2 L2 Q20 → 3 L3 Q-20 → 3 L3 Q0 → 4 L3 Q20 → 5 L4 Q-20 → 5 L4 Q0 → 6 L4 Q20 → 7 L5 Q-20 → 7 L4 Q0 → 8 L5 Q20 → 9 ¦ àaccording to the formula. In reality, though, they changed this so you could use L1Q-20 agents no matter how low your standing was, in order to provide a way out of the black hole of low factional standing. And of course, there was a continuous increase in standings requirements in between each of these steps (so 4.65 for an L3Q13 agent, for instance).
Now, this is simplified toL1 → -10 L2 → 1 L3 → 3 L4 → 5 L5 → 7
Easier to understand with the numbers. Thanks.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:33:00 -
[30]
Buy tags! Sell Faction Items! Panic!
SKUNK (o)
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Elldranga
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:34:00 -
[31]
I don't get it.... if they really want people to spread out... why not have rewards be proportional to the utilization of the agent?
After all... if he/she really wants something done, and is having trouble finding someone to do it, they'd likely offer a higher pay to get someone interested.
Heck... you could even potentially have the captains quarters have a terminal which displays mission offerings so there'd be a mechanism for knowing that it might be worth traveling further away in the region.
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Silas Cooper
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:36:00 -
[32]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Serpents smile
Is all* this really in the works and if so, why? Don't run many missions myself lately but I remember the sheet load of grinding I had to take to get my current agents. :3 Isn't this dumbing EVE down?
Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)
Normally I would be very much against dumbing down stuff but in this case yes, very much. The myriad of variables you have to wade through in order to find a good npc corp is just too much, especially for a starting player.
Just make sure you don't dumb down the game in parts just because you want to have more and more subs. Quality over quantity, thank you.
-- You can't cure stupid. |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:37:00 -
[33]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Serpents smile
Is all* this really in the works and if so, why? Don't run many missions myself lately but I remember the sheet load of grinding I had to take to get my current agents. :3 Isn't this dumbing EVE down?
Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)
Please give me a heads up when you start dumbing down t2/t3 production chains
On a serious note though.. does this change prepare for something? Like you now increase rewards via the +20 standing for each agent. What are you going to take for that? Especially as our Doc is always so careful with those isk sources?
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Silas Cooper
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Serpents smile
Is all* this really in the works and if so, why? Don't run many missions myself lately but I remember the sheet load of grinding I had to take to get my current agents. :3 Isn't this dumbing EVE down?
Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)
Normally I would be very much against dumbing down stuff but in this case yes, very much. The myriad of variables you have to wade through in order to find a good npc corp is just too much, especially for a starting player.
Just make sure you don't dumb down the game in parts just because you want to have more and more subs. Quality over quantity, thank you.
Subs aren't really a factor for things like this. We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.
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Valhallas
Gallente The Executioners
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:45:00 -
[35]
Do we know what categories the agents will fall into.
EG an agent currently in the Administration division,
will they be in security or distribution under the new system?
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Valhallas Do we know what categories the agents will fall into.
EG an agent currently in the Administration division,
will they be in security or distribution under the new system?
It's all in the blog.
An administration agent will be a security agent after the change.
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Waaaaaagggh
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Posted - 2011.05.16 14:11:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Waaaaaagggh on 16/05/2011 14:12:08 so i guess it is confirmed then that lower sec status (0.5) will pay better than high sec status?
can't really call this a buff or nerf to mission s. yes easier to access, same quality, more lp payout for everyone, but a equivalent reduction in value of lp store items.
only nerf is to null. more people returning to high sec when they don't have access to the best plexes/anoms. Doesn't really affect the already established large alliances though.
ccp's trying to get smaller organizations out of null sec?!? dun dun dunnnnnnn I see what you did there CCP you sly devils, you!
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salty Milk
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Posted - 2011.05.16 14:35:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras All serious high sec mission running after this patch will most likely be taking place in 0.5 systems.
only where such system does not border close to a 0.4 as it is you get a great deal of offers not worth taking due to predatory gankbears who dont have any concept of overfishing |
JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.16 14:48:00 -
[39]
Originally by: salty Milk
Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras All serious high sec mission running after this patch will most likely be taking place in 0.5 systems.
only where such system does not border close to a 0.4 as it is you get a great deal of offers not worth taking due to predatory gankbears who dont have any concept of overfishing
Good point.
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Waaaaaagggh
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Posted - 2011.05.16 14:57:00 -
[40]
what's the reason for 0.5 systems paying out better for missions? is it higher bounty for lower trusec?
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.16 15:09:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Waaaaaagggh Edited by: Waaaaaagggh on 16/05/2011 14:12:08 so i guess it is confirmed then that lower sec status (0.5) will pay better than high sec status?
This isn't at all new by the way. This has always been the case.
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.16 15:10:00 -
[42]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Waaaaaagggh Edited by: Waaaaaagggh on 16/05/2011 14:12:08 so i guess it is confirmed then that lower sec status (0.5) will pay better than high sec status?
This isn't at all new by the way. This has always been the case.
I was assuming he meant if it will *still* be that way after the patch. or that is what I assumed he meant.
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Waaaaaagggh
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Posted - 2011.05.16 15:14:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Waaaaaagggh on 16/05/2011 15:17:11
Originally by: JC Anderson
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Waaaaaagggh Edited by: Waaaaaagggh on 16/05/2011 14:12:08 so i guess it is confirmed then that lower sec status (0.5) will pay better than high sec status?
This isn't at all new by the way. This has always been the case.
I was assuming he meant if it will *still* be that way after the patch. or that is what I assumed he meant.
yea i knew it was the case before. wanted to confirm that isn't changed. and trying to figure out why it is the case. i don't really mission much.
EDIT: googled... apparently lower trusec gets more lp!? lol interesting
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Mith'riin
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Posted - 2011.05.16 15:23:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Mith''riin on 16/05/2011 15:23:52 My main concern is the next.
I was in a 0.0 alliance with a crappy system (Only 1 haven) and 2 good belt rating systems. I left the corp and I went to high sec to do some missions in my tengu.
The isk/h was TOTALLY different, was night and day (Way more in empire). With this change, high and low sec hubs are more buffed, generating even more isk/h than before, making 0.0 crappier than before (Except Sanctums + Carrier / Moon goo).
Edit: Also a huge buff to lvl V missions xD
I don't really care about it now because i'm in a wh corp and enjoying it, but i wonder how many 0.0 carebears will go to highsec again xD
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.16 15:28:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Mith'riin Edited by: Mith''riin on 16/05/2011 15:23:52 My main concern is the next.
I was in a 0.0 alliance with a crappy system (Only 1 haven) and 2 good belt rating systems. I left the corp and I went to high sec to do some missions in my tengu.
The isk/h was TOTALLY different, was night and day (Way more in empire). With this change, high and low sec hubs are more buffed, generating even more isk/h than before, making 0.0 crappier than before (Except Sanctums + Carrier / Moon goo).
Edit: Also a huge buff to lvl V missions xD
I don't really care about it now because i'm in a wh corp and enjoying it, but i wonder how many 0.0 carebears will go to highsec again xD
Many of them were already saying they will as soon as the 1jb per system change goes into effect next month.... Guess this gives them more reason. :P Who knows.
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Bane Necran
Furtim Vigilans
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Posted - 2011.05.16 15:33:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Bane Necran on 16/05/2011 15:35:10 I've done just about all the L4s i can stand so this isn't really something which bothers me, but are there plans to make standings a big factor for Incarna, or are we moving towards removing standings altogether in order to have everything accessible to everyone with no effort?
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Sandrestal
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Posted - 2011.05.16 15:57:00 -
[47]
While my mains are in null sec alliances, I have also trained up alts to run missions in high sec. What with null sec nerfs and on going sov wars, it is now more lucrative to run high sec missions. I guess high sec wasn't really overcrowded anyhow.
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.05.16 17:27:00 -
[48]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Subs aren't really a factor for things like this. We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.
Going to have to call BS on this (and I don't mean battleship.) Unless I missed the countless threads with players complaining about complexity of the agent system? Links?
The people who complain about the complexity of Eve are the reviewers and non-playing bloggers out there that like to laugh at the spreadsheet nerds and consistently deride Eve Online as the most difficult game to learn to play.
Those sorts of outward-facing reviews did not bother players. Many pointed at them with a sense of pride and turned the tables on the knuckle-draggers who couldn't figure out a simple MMO. No, those reviews affected prospective players. It gives them a pre-conceived notion of what to expect if they decide to try the game. It gives them an excuse when they fail. CCP wants to change that notion amongst the game-reviewing paparazzi, so that new players will come into the game with an open mind and find an easy-going, knuckle-dragger friendly game.
So yes...it's about subs. If you're going to be honest about dumbing-down the game, at least have the balls to be honest about why.
Pathetic.
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Kahlel Sarbo
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Posted - 2011.05.16 17:29:00 -
[49]
I see that we will receive the new skillbooks if we have the old connections skills trained. If one has all 7 old skills trained, will they receive 7 new skillbooks (2 distribution, 2 mining, 3 security)? Or just 1 of each?
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Theocrates
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Posted - 2011.05.16 17:35:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kahlel Sarbo I see that we will receive the new skillbooks if we have the old connections skills trained. If one has all 7 old skills trained, will they receive 7 new skillbooks (2 distribution, 2 mining, 3 security)? Or just 1 of each?
SKills will be refunded, skillbooks in inventory will be changed to the new skill. ***By coffee alone I set my mind in motion, by the beans of Java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning, by coffee alone I set my mind in motion.*** |
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Teranul
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Posted - 2011.05.16 17:36:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Subs aren't really a factor for things like this. We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.
Going to have to call BS on this (and I don't mean battleship.) Unless I missed the countless threads with players complaining about complexity of the agent system? Links?
You do realize that most players who quit don't post a thread on the forums saying so, right?
You do realize <1% of the player base even posts on the forums at all, right?
Just making sure.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2011.05.16 17:38:00 -
[52]
Bah. Here goes my dream of agent type specific mission sets.
Bye astrometrics missions, bye manufacturing missions, bye intelligence missions, sad to never see you. --------
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Anddeh McNab
Cadre Assault Force
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Posted - 2011.05.16 17:40:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Subs aren't really a factor for things like this. We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.
Going to have to call BS on this (and I don't mean battleship.) Unless I missed the countless threads with players complaining about complexity of the agent system? Links?
Too a brand new player the agent system can seem pretty daunting, not to mention confusing if you're used to NPCs giving out a set number of quests. There are two sides to the EVE community; those that scream for change and those that scream against it. Often they are the same person. |
Ketria Saine
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Posted - 2011.05.16 17:51:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Anddeh McNab
Too a brand new player the agent system can seem pretty daunting, not to mention confusing if you're used to NPCs giving out a set number of quests.
As a new player I did indeed find the agent system a little confusing, and wondered what the point of all the quality standings was for, and why they were needed. I intend to run plenty of missions, so I for one like this change.
A poster earlier in the thread asked if EVE was dumbing down. I prefer to think that it's streamlining a little.
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Thenoran
Caldari Tranquility Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.16 17:57:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Serpents smile
Is all* this really in the works and if so, why? Don't run many missions myself lately but I remember the sheet load of grinding I had to take to get my current agents. :3 Isn't this dumbing EVE down?
Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)
It does have one downside though, which is between the huge standing difference from accessing lvl 3 and lvl 4 agents compared to your own standing. If you were grinding at a lvl 3 -18 agent and managed to get enough standing for a lvl 3 +16 agent, I can imagine a lot of players would be willing to move. As I doubt a single player will be able to 'deplete' an agent, a lot of pilots will now stick with a single agent outside the main mission hubs. The standing increase gained will still improve mission rewards a bit, but it'll feel more like a grind now that there's nothing to do between agent levels. Still, will have to see how it goes when the mission hubs hit rock bottom and the mission bears look for other salmon to eat. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.05.16 18:00:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Hesperius on 16/05/2011 18:01:47 This is nice and all, but what do you guys (Soundwave & team) plan to do about people who have an armada of ships and ISK in their personal assets and roam low sec for hours on end not able to find anyone wiling to fight?
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Maverick2011
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.16 18:05:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 16/05/2011 13:12:58
Originally by: Lidia Prince
Quote: -20 in terms of access
Erm, don't quite get it. Does this mean that all agents will require less standing to get missions from em?
The old access formula was (Level - 1) + 2 + (Quality / 20). Now, quality is gone and that second term simply becomes -1 (-20/20).
Or in table form, it used to be that:Agent Required standing L1 Q-20 → -1¦ L1 Q0 → 0 L1 Q20 → 1 L2 Q-20 → 1 L2 Q0 → 2 L2 Q20 → 3 L3 Q-20 → 3 L3 Q0 → 4 L3 Q20 → 5 L4 Q-20 → 5 L4 Q0 → 6 L4 Q20 → 7 L5 Q-20 → 7 L4 Q0 → 8 L5 Q20 → 9 ¦ àaccording to the formula. In reality, though, they changed this so you could use L1Q-20 agents no matter how low your standing was, in order to provide a way out of the black hole of low factional standing. And of course, there was a continuous increase in standings requirements in between each of these steps (so 4.65 for an L3Q13 agent, for instance).
Now, this is simplified toL1 → -10 L2 → 1 L3 → 3 L4 → 5 L5 → 7
ah now i understood,nice post
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Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.05.16 18:08:00 -
[58]
So what happens to the agent types that were 50% combat and 50% snooze missions? Flip a coin?
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Manssell
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Posted - 2011.05.16 18:25:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard So what happens to the agent types that were 50% combat and 50% snooze missions? Flip a coin?
Well it looks like they just put them into new categories that either only give snooze missions or only give combat.
Very sadly in my case I just lost both of my lvl4 agents to 100% snooze missions, so now I have to go back and start grinding new agents from scratch is seems! ARRRRRRRRRRRRR!
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Sade Onyx
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Posted - 2011.05.16 18:31:00 -
[60]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Waaaaaagggh Edited by: Waaaaaagggh on 16/05/2011 14:12:08 so i guess it is confirmed then that lower sec status (0.5) will pay better than high sec status?
This isn't at all new by the way. This has always been the case.
umm, I dont get it.. so how does that work? does a 0.9 agent pay less than a 0.8? or is it only, High-sec, Low-sec, Null-sec that has differences in rewards?
I thought the idea of this change was to make all agents the same
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Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.05.16 18:40:00 -
[61]
I also heard they were removing social skills? Would this include diplomacy (and connections for the + relation empires)? Because at this point without diplomacy I can't go into Gall or Min space. Nor would I be able to correct my sec status (to low for even lvl1 Q-20).
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.05.16 18:53:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard I also heard they were removing social skills? Would this include diplomacy (and connections for the + relation empires)? Because at this point without diplomacy I can't go into Gall or Min space. Nor would I be able to correct my sec status (to low for even lvl1 Q-20).
Imagine a bug where people log in and find themselves red?
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.16 18:57:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Anddeh McNab
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Subs aren't really a factor for things like this. We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.
Going to have to call BS on this (and I don't mean battleship.) Unless I missed the countless threads with players complaining about complexity of the agent system? Links?
Too a brand new player the agent system can seem pretty daunting, not to mention confusing if you're used to NPCs giving out a set number of quests.
Not just new players. We have parts of the EVE/EVEs UI that are unintuitive and complex for no reason at all. We have game designers and UI designers that are working to improve the play experience. They're here to provide a better product, not to count subs. Subs are a good thing, but they should be a byproduct of a good gameplay experience, not a game design goal in itself.
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.16 18:59:00 -
[64]
Well I'm draggin' mah ship outa Motsu Yes I'm draggin' mah ship outa Motsu Well there's a patch day comin' And I feel like hummin' So I'm draggin mah ship outa Motsu
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:10:00 -
[65]
Some considerations..
A, its gonna be boring to get always the same kind of missions from the same agents, without the oddball to break routine B, everyone is gonna crowd 0.5 systems C, I'm gonna miss Bamara Garisas, loved the way she threw out her missions
And final: dos this means storyline agents will give out always the same kind of missions as the agent you've been working for? I.E., if you do encounters, then your storyline mission will be an encounter, if you do couriers the storyline will be a courier, and so? Because that's going to be a status grinding galore, provided how fast are couriers compared to combat missions...
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ISquishWorms
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:10:00 -
[66]
Edited by: ISquishWorms on 16/05/2011 19:10:50
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Anddeh McNab
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Subs aren't really a factor for things like this. We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.
Going to have to call BS on this (and I don't mean battleship.) Unless I missed the countless threads with players complaining about complexity of the agent system? Links?
Too a brand new player the agent system can seem pretty daunting, not to mention confusing if you're used to NPCs giving out a set number of quests.
I play Eve as I want to play a complex game one that makes you think and use your brain, a game that punishes mistakes and forces you to learn from them. Maybe it's time to get that old chess board out again.
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Florence Valentine
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:12:00 -
[67]
There is system I work in with a good lvl4 that is always loaded with 160+. It was a boon for ninja salvagers - hey, I even had a go myself.
If everyone does flee and spread out more evenly, will this hurt the ninja salvagers? Or conversely, will this give them more choice / open up more opportunities?
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Cpt Arareb
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:13:00 -
[68]
well well maibe now I will finaly try to do an mission... maibe will have a new source of income w/o all the grinding required... or maibe not .. will see.. BOTS ARE RUINING THIS GAME |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:22:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai Some considerations..
A, its gonna be boring to get always the same kind of missions from the same agents, without the oddball to break routine B, everyone is gonna crowd 0.5 systems C, I'm gonna miss Bamara Garisas, loved the way she threw out her missions
And final: dos this means storyline agents will give out always the same kind of missions as the agent you've been working for? I.E., if you do encounters, then your storyline mission will be an encounter, if you do couriers the storyline will be a courier, and so? Because that's going to be a status grinding galore, provided how fast are couriers compared to combat missions...
Regardless of which, it will give people better options than just hanging out in Motsu.
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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:24:00 -
[70]
Crap, now my cozy little part of space will soon be overrun by hub-bears and their ninja/suicide parasites. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:27:00 -
[71]
CCP: Are the agent types going to be as the presently are on Sisi? I ask because I have a thriving business selling stuff to mission runners in Gicodel, and that SoE agent, on Sisi anyway, has been changed to all courier, which will make my market go away. Unless you are planning to either change the agent to security, or adding a security agent. Are you?
On a broader note: If you want players to spread out from the trade hubs, there need to be agents for them to spread out too. Us players tend to have a rather long list of qualities we look for in an agent: Location, faction, corporation, mission type, for a few. Presently I will use an agent in a desirable location and faction that gives out a few courier missions just so I can get to the combat ones. But if those combat mission go away, then Ill move, along with many others, to what will become new mission hubs.
Please do not change one reason to have a mission hub for another. Give us lots of options so we can spread out!
On an interesting note: players will sometimes fleet for doing missions. When they do, getting a courier mission always is a letdown. The entire fleet sits and waits for the mission owner to do it. Now that will not happen anymore.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:27:00 -
[72]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai Some considerations..
A, its gonna be boring to get always the same kind of missions from the same agents, without the oddball to break routine B, everyone is gonna crowd 0.5 systems C, I'm gonna miss Bamara Garisas, loved the way she threw out her missions
And final: dos this means storyline agents will give out always the same kind of missions as the agent you've been working for? I.E., if you do encounters, then your storyline mission will be an encounter, if you do couriers the storyline will be a courier, and so? Because that's going to be a status grinding galore, provided how fast are couriers compared to combat missions...
Regardless of which, it will give people better options than just hanging out in Motsu.
So, about those storyline agents. Is working a security agent going to give you a security storyline agent, or can you be stuck with a mining storyline agent? -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:28:00 -
[73]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai Some considerations..
And final: dos this means storyline agents will give out always the same kind of missions as the agent you've been working for? ...
Regardless of which, it will give people better options than just hanging out in Motsu.
If nothing has changed then storyline&research agents are unchanged, right CCPSoundwave?
BTW why didn¦t you get rid of the system security influencing agents? Intentional or too tricky/nightmarish to patch? ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Fuzzy Wuzzi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:29:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Fuzzy Wuzzi on 16/05/2011 19:30:45 Cool. I'm excited about this. I'll get to move away from my crappy current location and probably find a nice area close to some prime unpopulated lowsec for PI.
edit: Forgot to ask, what do you expect will happen to mission-related market hubs? Like Sasoutikh or Lustrevik?
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Shandir
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:41:00 -
[75]
Will the agent quality change be affecting R&D agents also?
(And this is something I probably should know, but I'm asking anyway) Does effective quality 20>40 continue to give bonuses on the same scale as (-20) > 20? -
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:54:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Fuzzy Wuzzi Edited by: Fuzzy Wuzzi on 16/05/2011 19:30:45 Cool. I'm excited about this. I'll get to move away from my crappy current location and probably find a nice area close to some prime unpopulated lowsec for PI.
edit: Forgot to ask, what do you expect will happen to mission-related market hubs? Like Sasoutikh or Lustrevik?
The current mission hubs will disband and will be replaced by encounter mission hubs in 0.5 systems.
The more it goes, the more I think the whole purpose of this patch is to dumb down agent divisions. All in all, I never cared what division was my agent... only looked for corporation, quality and system security via the eve agent locator web.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.16 19:55:00 -
[77]
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 16/05/2011 19:55:25
Originally by: Shandir Will the agent quality change be affecting R&D agents also?
(And this is something I probably should know, but I'm asking anyway) Does effective quality 20>40 continue to give bonuses on the same scale as (-20) > 20?
Yes, this applies to RnD agents as well.
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Craven Aleros
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Posted - 2011.05.16 20:04:00 -
[78]
Negotiation skill obsolete now then?
_____________ I got beef... |
Anddeh McNab
Cadre Assault Force
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Posted - 2011.05.16 20:40:00 -
[79]
Originally by: ISquishWorms I play Eve as I want to play a complex game one that makes you think and use your brain, a game that punishes mistakes and forces you to learn from them. Maybe it's time to get that old chess board out again.
EVE is still complex, just not needlessly so. There are two sides to the EVE community; those that scream for change and those that scream against it. Often they are the same person. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.16 20:49:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Generals4 Hmm i should check into 0.1-0.2 sec lvl 4 agents i guess.
My question is: what will happen with my connection skills :|
Unless they change the procedure: - your SP will be refounded - the skill will disappear and you have to buy the skillbook again - the new skill will be a x2
- if you have an unused skillbook it will be changed to one of the new tipes.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.16 20:51:00 -
[81]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 16/05/2011 19:55:25
Originally by: Shandir Will the agent quality change be affecting R&D agents also?
(And this is something I probably should know, but I'm asking anyway) Does effective quality 20>40 continue to give bonuses on the same scale as (-20) > 20?
Yes, this applies to RnD agents as well.
Have you noticed that negotiation has stopped to work for R&D agents so we will lose SP from almost all agents? (already bugreported)
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.16 20:52:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Venkul Mul - if you have an unused skillbook it will be changed to one of the new tipes.
àso buy one cheaply now! ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Bane Necran
Furtim Vigilans
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Posted - 2011.05.16 21:15:00 -
[83]
I am saddened my question about standings being used for other things in the future was ignored.
If there are no such plans, can you at least talk to the Amarr and ask them nicely to stop shooting at me?
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2011.05.16 21:26:00 -
[84]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Waaaaaagggh Edited by: Waaaaaagggh on 16/05/2011 14:12:08 so i guess it is confirmed then that lower sec status (0.5) will pay better than high sec status?
This isn't at all new by the way. This has always been the case.
People are just going to do roughly the following, in that case:
1. Start at the largest trade hub in their faction's space. 2. Find the nearest 0.5 sec system with no bordering lowsec. 3. Cluster together nearly as tightly as before.
I'd suggest setting lower rewards in systems where a lot of missions have been completed recently. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.16 21:45:00 -
[85]
ANALOGY TIME !!! See, when a human limb gets gangrenous, one applies a tourniquet, cuts off the limb, closes the stump off and hopes for the best. Do just one or two of those things but not the other, and you're going to end up with a situation that's actually worse than the original, as bad as it sounds. Or something similar, anyway, I hear. Damn dirty doctors !
Now, in the case of EVE, you didn't have quite that much of a problem to begin with, but a half-assed partial solution will still lead to even greater problems down the road, unless you also hurry up and do the rest of the needed things. For instance, yeah, you're eliminating PART of the reasons for clustering, but you're doing it for the LEAST IMPORTANT of the reasons for clustering, namely agent quality. The far more important clustering elements lie in the very high concentration of viable agents in an area (see mission hubs like Motsu) or the low truesec of a small bunch of agents (see most other mission hubs). If anything, this opens up even more viable agent clump sites, and since now it's all the same, this further encourages 0.5 sec clustering, combined with easier access to agents earlier in the grind routine.
All in all, instead of making people disperse, INITIALLY, yeah, they might sort of disperse, but in the long run, they'll just cluster even harder in even smaller pockets, essentially having the same problem, just worse, and in a different place.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.16 21:54:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Akita T ANALOGY TIME !!! See, when a human limb gets gangrenous, one applies a tourniquet, cuts off the limb, closes the stump off and hopes for the best. Do just one or two of those things but not the other, and you're going to end up with a situation that's actually worse than the original, as bad as it sounds. Or something similar, anyway, I hear. Damn dirty doctors !
Now, in the case of EVE, you didn't have quite that much of a problem to begin with, but a half-assed partial solution will still lead to even greater problems down the road, unless you also hurry up and do the rest of the needed things. For instance, yeah, you're eliminating PART of the reasons for clustering, but you're doing it for the LEAST IMPORTANT of the reasons for clustering, namely agent quality. The far more important clustering elements lie in the very high concentration of viable agents in an area (see mission hubs like Motsu) or the low truesec of a small bunch of agents (see most other mission hubs). If anything, this opens up even more viable agent clump sites, and since now it's all the same, this further encourages 0.5 sec clustering, combined with easier access to agents earlier in the grind routine.
All in all, instead of making people disperse, INITIALLY, yeah, they might sort of disperse, but in the long run, they'll just cluster even harder in even smaller pockets, essentially having the same problem, just worse, and in a different place.
And the problem with people clustering is...?
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2011.05.16 21:55:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Akita T Meh, everybody will just cluster in regions close to a 0.5 sec rating without many lowsec nearby where several desirable agents are located.
People are already doing that. This change will have the net effect of boosting the quality of agents people are already using, unless they are already using Q20 agents. It will cause very little movement of mission runners to new systems, and why should it? Your existing Motsu or Dodixie agent just got a boost in LP payout.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.16 21:56:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Akita T ANALOGY TIME !!! See, when a human limb gets gangrenous, one applies a tourniquet, cuts off the limb, closes the stump off and hopes for the best. Do just one or two of those things but not the other, and you're going to end up with a situation that's actually worse than the original, as bad as it sounds. Or something similar, anyway, I hear. Damn dirty doctors !
Now, in the case of EVE, you didn't have quite that much of a problem to begin with, but a half-assed partial solution will still lead to even greater problems down the road, unless you also hurry up and do the rest of the needed things. For instance, yeah, you're eliminating PART of the reasons for clustering, but you're doing it for the LEAST IMPORTANT of the reasons for clustering, namely agent quality. The far more important clustering elements lie in the very high concentration of viable agents in an area (see mission hubs like Motsu) or the low truesec of a small bunch of agents (see most other mission hubs). If anything, this opens up even more viable agent clump sites, and since now it's all the same, this further encourages 0.5 sec clustering, combined with easier access to agents earlier in the grind routine.
All in all, instead of making people disperse, INITIALLY, yeah, they might sort of disperse, but in the long run, they'll just cluster even harder in even smaller pockets, essentially having the same problem, just worse, and in a different place.
Clustering is hardly the only reason for this change. Reducing complexity, allowing players more viable choices in terms of who they work for and where are even more important.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.16 21:57:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Bane Necran I am saddened my question about standings being used for other things in the future was ignored.
If there are no such plans, can you at least talk to the Amarr and ask them nicely to stop shooting at me?
These are standalone changes.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.16 22:10:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Akita T on 16/05/2011 22:13:02
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Clustering is hardly the only reason for this change. Reducing complexity, allowing players more viable choices in terms of who they work for and where are even more important.
So why not make the choices even less complicated and even more viable, by removing the effect of truesec from the equation, leaving in only three very clear multipliers (lowest for highsec, same for ANY highsec, a different one for any lowsec and a different one for any 0.0) ? And why not evenly redistribute agents across the entire corporation station presence, with agents of all levels and simplified divisions present in mostly the same ratios all around ? Also, why "nerf" certain NPC corps by eliminating the possibility for different mission types (thanks to most, if not all agents ending up in a single division), why not reshuffle agents around in different divisions so ALL corps would have SOME non-R&D agents in EACH of the new 3 divisions ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.16 22:32:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 16/05/2011 22:13:02
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Clustering is hardly the only reason for this change. Reducing complexity, allowing players more viable choices in terms of who they work for and where are even more important.
So why not make the choices even less complicated and even more viable, by removing the effect of truesec from the equation, leaving in only three very clear multipliers (lowest for highsec, same for ANY highsec, a different one for any lowsec and a different one for any 0.0) ? And why not evenly redistribute agents across the entire corporation station presence, with agents of all levels and simplified divisions present in mostly the same ratios all around ? Also, why "nerf" certain NPC corps by eliminating the possibility for different mission types (thanks to most, if not all agents ending up in a single division), why not reshuffle agents around in different divisions so ALL corps would have SOME non-R&D agents in EACH of the new 3 divisions ?
Removing the effect of truesec has some pretty large implications that extend part just empire agents. It's a reward modifier for large parts of the game and if this moves players away from the center of empire, that's great. Re-distributing agents there's really no reason for, apart from fixing small issues the agent divisions could have caused. I'm not sure what you want out of the third suggestion, adding RnD agents would mean that most corporation have x number of agents that function completely differently from the rest, which hardly makes eve more intuitive.
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.05.16 22:40:00 -
[92]
While I think this is a good idea. I does reduce depth to the game agent wise.
As long as CCP watchs it closely and make changes where needed. I am all for it. The thing that needs to be divided and made more clear is what agents and missions effect sec status and to what degree. Please seperate sec gain agents(pirate missions) from sec loss agents that attack other empires.
Removing one roll of the dice is nice now remove the other one. The one that bites newer players harder. Its easy to see that you get diffrent mission types by just using the agents. Its harder to see the sec hits unless you have deeper understanding of the game.
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Manssell
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Posted - 2011.05.16 22:42:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Manssell on 16/05/2011 22:45:10
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Akita T ANALOGY TIME !!! See, when a human limb gets gangrenous, one applies a tourniquet, cuts off the limb, closes the stump off and hopes for the best. Do just one or two of those things but not the other, and you're going to end up with a situation that's actually worse than the original, as bad as it sounds. Or something similar, anyway, I hear. Damn dirty doctors !
Now, in the case of EVE, you didn't have quite that much of a problem to begin with, but a half-assed partial solution will still lead to even greater problems down the road, unless you also hurry up and do the rest of the needed things. For instance, yeah, you're eliminating PART of the reasons for clustering, but you're doing it for the LEAST IMPORTANT of the reasons for clustering, namely agent quality. The far more important clustering elements lie in the very high concentration of viable agents in an area (see mission hubs like Motsu) or the low truesec of a small bunch of agents (see most other mission hubs). If anything, this opens up even more viable agent clump sites, and since now it's all the same, this further encourages 0.5 sec clustering, combined with easier access to agents earlier in the grind routine.
All in all, instead of making people disperse, INITIALLY, yeah, they might sort of disperse, but in the long run, they'll just cluster even harder in even smaller pockets, essentially having the same problem, just worse, and in a different place.
Clustering is hardly the only reason for this change. Reducing complexity, allowing players more viable choices in terms of who they work for and where are even more important.
Yet this change has now removed my choices of where I can run. Before I had 3 lvl4 agents that gave mixed combat/currier missions but with 3 in and next door to my home system I could always get a combat mission (to pay for my pew pew loss) and just turn down the rest. Now if I'm reading the dev blog right, none of those agents will give combat missions at all, and I now have to go back and grind standings with a new corp, and by looking for new ones near my home, I will now have to go into a mission hub to get combat missions (closest combat agent now).
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.05.16 22:43:00 -
[94]
Sound wave I understand most of your points.
but the one thing being brought up that I think you guys might be accidentally running into a brick wall 6 months down the line.
There are divisions right now that give 60-70% combat that are being changed to non-combat agents. And then in some corps your making so they have ZERO combat agents.
Or maybe you are actively taking steps to avoid this?
because it's just going to make the game even more complicated if players want to do missions for a corp just to find out they have 0 access to lvl 4 combat agents.
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The Huffarunier
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.05.16 22:43:00 -
[95]
Is it your goal that some corporations will not have combat agents? I ask because I have yet to see a formal way that I can ask for you to look into changing a corp so that it actually has combat agents.
I know of at least one corp that will have no combat agents and I am sure there will be others.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.16 23:19:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Akita T on 16/05/2011 23:25:45
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Removing the effect of truesec has some pretty large implications that extend part just empire agents. It's a reward modifier for large parts of the game and if this moves players away from the center of empire, that's great.
It would still work that way, but there would be no fine grain, just three discrete levels. BUT JUST FOR MISSIONS. You woudn't remove truesec and its effect on belt rats or anoms or anything like that, just on mission rewards. You know, kind of like the thing you did with incursions...
Heck, if you want, you can have two tiers of 0.0, "weak 0.0" (between 0 and -0.5 truesec) and "strong 0.0" (between -0.5 and -1 truesec) to mirror the highsec/lowsec divide... but there's no need for 4th decimal point granularity here, in fact, it's detrimental.
Quote: Re-distributing agents there's really no reason for, apart from fixing small issues the agent divisions could have caused.
You said you wanted to give players more viable choices in terms of who AND WHERE they work for. Having two L1 agents and two L4 in a station but having three L2 and four L3s in another on the other side of the region is kind of "bleh", wouldn't it make more sense to have at least one of each level in both those hypothetical stations ?
Quote: I'm not sure what you want out of the third suggestion, adding RnD agents would mean that most corporation have x number of agents that function completely differently from the rest, which hardly makes eve more intuitive.
I said non-R&D agents. As in, you used to have corps, like, say, the schools (all agents in "Advisory") giving out a wide mix of possible missions (with quite a few combat missions), but now ALL those agents are now of a single division (in this case, distribution) which only give one single type of mission (in this case, courier). So, effectively, now, instead of having people experiencing all mission types from any of the school NPC corps, you are forcing them to only do courier missions.
Wouldn't it make more sense to have some of them move to combat ("security") instead ? Maybe even one to mining ?
Or, alternatively, abolish all divisions altogether and have the PLAYER select the type of mission he wishes to receive from an agent (with LP skills effecting the different mission type LP rewards) ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Fuzzy Wuzzi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.16 23:21:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Originally by: Fuzzy Wuzzi Edited by: Fuzzy Wuzzi on 16/05/2011 19:30:45 Cool. I'm excited about this. I'll get to move away from my crappy current location and probably find a nice area close to some prime unpopulated lowsec for PI.
edit: Forgot to ask, what do you expect will happen to mission-related market hubs? Like Sasoutikh or Lustrevik?
The current mission hubs will disband and will be replaced by encounter mission hubs in 0.5 systems.
Ya, true. A lot of people will choose to go to the .5 systems closest to the major trade hubs, but I will probably pick an area a few jumps further away to avoid a crowded system. I'm excited that this patch gives me the option to do it.
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai The more it goes, the more I think the whole purpose of this patch is to dumb down agent divisions. All in all, I never cared what division was my agent... only looked for corporation, quality and system security via the eve agent locator web.
I sure don't think I'll miss the "interesting" factor of having to pick an agent in one of the top 6 "encounter missions" divisions. I think CCP is right in saying this is one thing that should be dumb down.
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Nishachara
Special Operations Corp Mortal Destruction
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Posted - 2011.05.16 23:57:00 -
[98]
...I like from time to time do a mission or two for vherokior tribe ...not for the isk but just for the hell of it. (coz i earn in different places my plex-s and ships) ...look at it as a semi-rp stuff :D...
Now i cant do missions for that corp anymore coz they wont have any even remote combat agents in high sec...
So.. lets try to imagine i am a more mission pve oriented player , and i am doing the missions for that corp in some gods-forsaken backwater...
Now i will not be able to do that anymore and will have to go to systems full of other players where are pure combat missions oriented npc corps and agents...
So hows that "spreading mission running players more" ?
I dont care coz i am very rarely in hig sec... But imho it would be nice if i could jump clone to hig sec backwater once every 6 months and do a mission or two (with my brains far far away...not needing full concentration and thinking like in space i live every day)and i cant do that anymore for that specific corp:P
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Illwill Bill
Talu Shaya Talu Shaya Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.17 06:54:00 -
[99]
Low-sec boost \o/
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Revenge is a dish best served with auto-cannons.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:00:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Tonto Auri on 17/05/2011 10:01:09
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Reducing complexity, allowing players more viable choices in terms of who they work for and where are even more important.
There's a narrow border between "reducing complexity" and "dumb homogenisation". If you didn't read other posts, in test server forum f.e., some corporations will now have no combat agents at all. I.e. starter corporations. (Guess, how fast people runaway from boring courier grind? And I didn't mean run to other agents. They run away from EVE.) Also, you removing entertainment moment. Having a 10% chance to get unwanted mission and complain about loudly in corp chat is more entertaining, than grind 20 combat missions in a row without telling a word. "What you've been doing?" "Well, I was grinding *sigh*" Make Security agents 10-15% courier, Production 10% mining/5% combat, Astro 15-20% courier. Should do it, IMO. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
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Aoki Ayumi
University of Caille
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:16:00 -
[101]
I was happy doing level4 kill missions for Astral Mining, since their stations are near but not in a hub solar system. Very profitable.
Suddenly, Astral Mining have only one level 4 "security" agent, next door with 0.4.......
Gods, I don't want to do level 1 missions again...
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:34:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Tonto Auri If you didn't read other posts, in test server forum f.e., some corporations will now have no combat agents at all. I.e. starter corporations. (...) Make Security agents 10-15% courier, Production 10% mining/5% combat, Astro 15-20% courier. Should do it, IMO.
while I totally agree with the first (altho in the case of SOE it's gonna be funny to see the price of sisters stuff to skyrocket since a great portion of their empire agents will become courier agents), making missions homogeneous is a bit... bland. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.05.17 11:09:00 -
[103]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Silas Cooper
Subs aren't really a factor for things like this. We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.
Would this include the shading of probe results that have the tendency to meld into the background colors making finding the result again unnecessarily complex and un-intuitive? Honestly, is not having to set the probes to a large scan radius and then moving them up/down, left/right in order to highlight the result so that it may be seen un-intuitive?
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.05.17 11:17:00 -
[104]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)
Speculation
If this is about helping noobs to have better income and so be able to get powned without much impact because they can easy afford to change their stuff: /bow
Missioning/pve is one of the many possibilities of EVE, if it's intended to guide those players to new perspectives: /bow
A little bit of work now about low sec industrialisation/trading hubs possibility and you guys are about to get an A
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Sathynos
Caldari BSX Industries Inver Brass
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Posted - 2011.05.17 12:25:00 -
[105]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.
Would you be so kind to move font selection to the top of that list? Thanks :) -- "Say yes to pron on Concord billboards" campaing. Eve mercenaries portal: http://www.eve-mercs.com |
Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.05.17 13:02:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Mr Kidd Would this include the shading of probe results that have the tendency to meld into the background colors making finding the result again unnecessarily complex and un-intuitive? Honestly, is not having to set the probes to a large scan radius and then moving them up/down, left/right in order to highlight the result so that it may be seen un-intuitive?
If you haven't found the easy way around this yet, I feel bad for you son
As for the agent changes, I'm all for them. Hasn't anyone yet seen this is a lowsec buff?
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iOSJake
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Posted - 2011.05.17 15:57:00 -
[107]
Do the new changes to Agents mean that all level 1 Agents are accessible to all players regardless of your standings now? (Essentially, can we now recover standings that we may have let fall below the minimum recovery level?)
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.05.17 16:33:00 -
[108]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)
I'd be interested in seeing the Venn diagram of CCPs list and the 1000 paper cuts list to see the intersecting "parts of Eve in dire need"
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.05.17 16:34:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Sathynos
Originally by: CCP Soundwave We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.
Would you be so kind to move font selection to the top of that list? Thanks :)
Agreed! It does make eve arbitrarily too complex.
***** Signature may appear without warning! ***** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.05.17 16:50:00 -
[110]
Originally by: iOSJake Do the new changes to Agents mean that all level 1 Agents are accessible to all players regardless of your standings now? (Essentially, can we now recover standings that we may have let fall below the minimum recovery level?)
Agents from Lvl1 Q'-20' till Lvl1 Q'0' did accept you regardless of your standing to that faction-/np-corp-standing already for well over a year now. You might want to keep up more with what happens in the client in future via dev-blogs/patch-notes there..
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.17 17:07:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Ghoest on 17/05/2011 17:07:56 Give CCP a break on this.
This "complexity" everyone is raving about was an artifact of earlier design concepts of EVE from beta. They served no purpose except to distribute mission runners in an awkward pattern and it it made us vet players who understood it all feel a little special.
It in practice it was a crappy inelegant mess that did not add a fun factor for anyone it just made us play in particular systems.
Akita has a point(as others have said too) that the finely graduated true sec is also dumb. Its also an artifact of old abandoned game concepts. But if they cant manage to fix it - fine well be ok.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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iOSJake
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Posted - 2011.05.18 02:31:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: iOSJake Do the new changes to Agents mean that all level 1 Agents are accessible to all players regardless of your standings now? (Essentially, can we now recover standings that we may have let fall below the minimum recovery level?)
Agents from Lvl1 Q'-20' till Lvl1 Q'0' did accept you regardless of your standing to that faction-/np-corp-standing already for well over a year now. You might want to keep up more with what happens in the client in future via dev-blogs/patch-notes there..
Doh! I missed those notes. So does that mean that you can "switch sides" and always fix horrid standings for sure? Woohoo!! Thank you.
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Aroh X
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Posted - 2011.05.19 01:34:00 -
[113]
So I'm guessing there's going to be heaps of players running the faction Epic Arc missions from tomorrow now that the standings needed to access the starting agents is reduced from something like 7 down to 5... probably not a bad thing btw, just haven't seen much discussion about this now opening up to a lot more players.
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Fleet of Doom RaVeN Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.19 09:38:00 -
[114]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Serpents smile
Is all* this really in the works and if so, why? Don't run many missions myself lately but I remember the sheet load of grinding I had to take to get my current agents. :3 Isn't this dumbing EVE down?
Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)
yea, because we wouldn't want folks to get an edge because they take the time to figure things out...
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Gothikia
Regeneration
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Posted - 2011.05.19 10:24:00 -
[115]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Anddeh McNab
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Subs aren't really a factor for things like this. We have a long list of things that are unnecessarily complex or un-intuitive, that we're going to fix from a usability standpoint.
Going to have to call BS on this (and I don't mean battleship.) Unless I missed the countless threads with players complaining about complexity of the agent system? Links?
Too a brand new player the agent system can seem pretty daunting, not to mention confusing if you're used to NPCs giving out a set number of quests.
Not just new players. We have parts of the EVE/EVEs UI that are unintuitive and complex for no reason at all. We have game designers and UI designers that are working to improve the play experience. They're here to provide a better product, not to count subs. Subs are a good thing, but they should be a byproduct of a good gameplay experience, not a game design goal in itself.
Soundwave, I had a friend join up recently and one of the things he was confused about was the overly complex agent system (amongst other things), so I suppose that this will be a welcome change for the newer players. Not only for them though, the more seasoned of us when we had some time to kill would like to have ran a few missions just for the hell of it and it really wasn't worth our time with the agent quality stuff. In essence, a grind that was a PITA just so we could kill some time for an hour.
I welcome these changes. __ Gothie <3 |
Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.05.19 10:26:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras
Since they are mission runners, they must be stupid, ignorant people to all changes in game play amirite?
i would say more polite: they are just lazy
Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras
All serious high sec mission running after this patch will most likely be taking place in 0.5 systems.
here i'm not sure. Because not many people read forums and not everyone reads patch notes.
Me personally would not detect any changes because i don't read any news from first pages of a game. And while i was only once attacked by ninja-salvager i would not have any reasons to leave Cat (my home system before i went to zero-sec).
I think most of high-sec mission runners are the same....
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Holy One
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Posted - 2011.05.19 10:36:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras
Since they are mission runners, they must be stupid, ignorant people to all changes in game play amirite?
i would say more polite: they are just lazy
Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras
All serious high sec mission running after this patch will most likely be taking place in 0.5 systems.
here i'm not sure. Because not many people read forums and not everyone reads patch notes.
Me personally would not detect any changes because i don't read any news from first pages of a game. And while i was only once attacked by ninja-salvager i would not have any reasons to leave Cat (my home system before i went to zero-sec).
I think most of high-sec mission runners are the same....
so basically mindless zombies/aspies and full time employees of gold farms in asia. amirite?
BBQ makes me hungry for more... |
Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.05.19 10:57:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Holy One so basically mindless zombies/aspies and full time employees of gold farms in asia. amirite?
i would say better: amateur people who have more important tasks in life just spending hours in online game time will come and you would understand it
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Wa'roun
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.05.19 11:08:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Abrazzar Bah. Here goes my dream of agent type specific mission sets.
Bye astrometrics missions, bye manufacturing missions, bye intelligence missions, sad to never see you.
This would be cool. An astro agent could have a lost container in space that is short on time to breach and you need to scan it down and retrieve it on a timer. Mission difficulty is based on skill and time left bases on mission difficulty.
There could even be a mission where the package could be scanned by anyone so you have possible player competition. Join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
Mr Mickey
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Posted - 2011.05.19 11:38:00 -
[120]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Serpents smile
Is all* this really in the works and if so, why? Don't run many missions myself lately but I remember the sheet load of grinding I had to take to get my current agents. :3 Isn't this dumbing EVE down?
Some parts of EVE have been in dire need of being dumbed down for years. This is one of them :)
I would be interested to know the calc between dumbness / avg player age / ccp wallet?
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Sandrestal
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Posted - 2011.05.19 13:02:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Holy One
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras
Since they are mission runners, they must be stupid, ignorant people to all changes in game play amirite?
i would say more polite: they are just lazy
Originally by: Darth Emu Ohmiras
All serious high sec mission running after this patch will most likely be taking place in 0.5 systems.
here i'm not sure. Because not many people read forums and not everyone reads patch notes.
Me personally would not detect any changes because i don't read any news from first pages of a game. And while i was only once attacked by ninja-salvager i would not have any reasons to leave Cat (my home system before i went to zero-sec).
I think most of high-sec mission runners are the same....
so basically mindless zombies/aspies and full time employees of gold farms in asia. amirite?
Aren't these same zombies/aspies who are full time employees of gold farms also ratting in null sec? or belt mining? Guess your elitist mentality means you do what to make isk? Scam people?
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Wicked Spider
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Posted - 2011.05.19 13:50:00 -
[122]
i have four level 4 agents close to my system now 3 of them are going to give me hauling missions only, due to the division changes. 2 of the agent are in the same station and are in the same division.
i had some diversity when playing.. combat missions and sometimes hauling missions which was a nice way to do something else.. as pointless as they seem to jump around with no real feeling of accomplishment and reward it still had a different pace.
at least change the division of agents when there multiple agents of the same quality
i feel that the mission system got dumbed down..
now we gonna get non stop crap like deliver a huge crate of tourist 6 jumps in every direction for 250k reward >> rinse and repeat only.... GOD safe me from this future!
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