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Aelita
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Posted - 2005.02.08 09:23:00 -
[31]
Thank you all for great feedback. Most of arguments seem to pretty close explain what's going on.
0.0 doesn't offer space to live. People can't settle there simply because there is no infrastructure. If someone makes fortune in 0.0 then even after that he need go to Empire to be able spend money or make money by selling things obtained in 0.0
During that journey there is too many things involved in and it's time heavy just to. I can live in 0.0 easy because I need nothing. I live in one BS fitted with lasers. I don't care about loot (I does shoot my cans simply to keep space clean). I have plenty of targets to shoot PC and NPC and that's all what I need.
I just log in-to game for few hours. I have no needs for any trade because I have all skills what I need my ship doesn't need any fuel or ammo. My income is around 30 millions daily and all these money going straight to corporation to feed our PvP centric pilots.
As I see in 0.0 stay only people like me who doesn't like to do agent missions or mining we have no other option left than kill NPC or people. Trading and manufacturing is reserved only for lucky people who made fortune in lottery called RD agents and it's Empire only! Other people who do stay in 0.0 are miners only.
So 0.0 have only limited use, mining, NPC hunting and player killing. Everything rest is Empire only.
If CCP want to use 2/3 of EVE space then there is something to do with it. First step would be populating 0.0 space with pirate faction stations, market for illegal goods and agents (hell even pirate RD agents). These stations should be even at dead end systems far far away in galaxy :)
If 0.0 will not have infrastructure then it's dead space controlled by couple of individuals. Alliance space is defended not by hundreds people but only tens of them, even they want to look bigger it's not reality.
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Schroni
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Posted - 2005.02.08 09:49:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Aelita First step would be populating 0.0 space with pirate faction stations, market for illegal goods and agents (hell even pirate RD agents). These stations should be even at dead end systems far far away in galaxy :)
personally i'd love to have this. I know there's all the POS stuff and so on but some more npc stations would be nice to get more people settled in 0.0
for example, Syndicate space has lots of npc stations, and there's always something going on...
0.0 is pretty empty at the moment, we went to Fountain last night and out of an approx. 2500 player alliance there were like 20-30 or so in FA space
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SNIGG Forums my videos |
Dloan
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Posted - 2005.02.08 09:51:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Aelita 0.0 doesn't offer space to live. People can't settle there simply because there is no infrastructure.
Exactly. Not only are there few places to actually dock, but out of the vast number of systems in 0.0, a large proportion of them offer nothing better than Empire space in terms of NPCs and ore. If you look on the map, you'll see a few concentrated dots of light. They will either be at the few stations, or in the few systems that have good ore/NPCs. There are more choke points than just the journey into 0.0.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2005.02.08 09:58:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Valentine Keen on 08/02/2005 09:59:45 I agree entirely on the lack of infrastructure and the lack of 0.0 entry gates being the issue for why I've not returned after leaving a 0.0 alliance.
0.0 isn't for the smaller groups or solo players. IT's simply too easy to lose out because of the chokepoints and the alliances holding all the cards at the few stations there are out there.
As others have pointed out to me in reply, getting past a chokepoint can be done, but it can't be done consistently and with sufficient supplies for anyone not already established out there to bother trying to set up.
Sure I can run a blockade, but I can't dock anywhere, can't change my ship, my set up, haul loot or ore, refine, reprocess, repair, build etc.. There's simply nowhere I can do that because the existing alliances were ALL founded around the clusters of npc pirate stations that are out there and they control them through numbers.
Edit:
While POS might be intended to change this, they're expensive, not highly profitable and a right pain to transport through dangerous territory. That's why all the ones in 0.0 belong to the alliances already out there.
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Amagi Intaki
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Posted - 2005.02.08 10:41:00 -
[35]
I don't understand all this fear of 0.0. I have mined alone with a n00b ship in 0.0 and survived. I fly in and out with shuttles without a problem. And I do -not- have any great skills. Who are these gankers I keep hearing about? I have absolutely never met one in four months of play.
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.02.08 10:51:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Schroni
Originally by: Aelita First step would be populating 0.0 space with pirate faction stations, market for illegal goods and agents (hell even pirate RD agents). These stations should be even at dead end systems far far away in galaxy :)
personally i'd love to have this. I know there's all the POS stuff and so on but some more npc stations would be nice to get more people settled in 0.0
for example, Syndicate space has lots of npc stations, and there's always something going on...
0.0 is pretty empty at the moment, we went to Fountain last night and out of an approx. 2500 player alliance there were like 20-30 or so in FA space
Agreed. And those stations should offer some major, major advantage over empire stations. Trading in highly profitable contraband or just paying over the odds for Empire goods.
Alternatively how about agent missions that go into 0.0 from Empire. Deep into 0.0. -- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Andrue
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Posted - 2005.02.08 11:07:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Amagi Intaki I don't understand all this fear of 0.0. I have mined alone with a n00b ship in 0.0 and survived. I fly in and out with shuttles without a problem. And I do -not- have any great skills. Who are these gankers I keep hearing about? I have absolutely never met one in four months of play.
Fear isn't the issue - read the thread again more carefully
The issue is hassle and lack of rewards. I can get in and out of 0.0 at will. I have an alt in a frigate and I can normally fly him through my preferred choke point before I leave for work. While I was operating in 0.0 it was handy for moving loot out to Empire markets and bringing supplies back in. I was making the trip three or four times a week. When I left BoB space I got round the PA blob by moving to the next system before dt then finishing my journey after dt (apparently PA don't operate after 11am on a Saturday ).
So getting in and out of 0.0 is easy. Laughably easy.
The problem is why bother.
Now that my main is back in Empire (because PA got bored and decided to beat up on BoB ) I've stopped running that alt into 0.0.
Was I scared of 0.0? No. I was cautious but I was solo npcing. Then PA burst in and that was the end of that. Of course I can survive in 0.0. I have nearly 13mil skill points. I can fit 8 megapulse on my apoc and run them all and a repairer without worrying too much about my cap. By Friday I'll have large energy turret 5. I can kick arse.
If I want
Trouble is..I don't want. Not all the time. Occasionally I get home from work in a bad mood and then I go and annoy NPCs. At those times PvP would be fun. But those times are rare. Mostly I prefer constructive game play and that means Empire.
The problem is simple:0.0 is a lot of hassle for no useful reward. It's like a third world country (no RL insult intended) and as a fine upstanding citizen of Empire it just has no appeal. -- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Agenor Deteis
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Posted - 2005.02.08 12:26:00 -
[38]
some good points here. All mentioned complains could be solved using one, already implemented feature: POS. Up to date, they are only moon miners or safespots, but they could be so much more! We need:
- the possibility to enable all features on a POS which empire stations can offer.
- "show pilots in space" only accessible in a certain area around the system of the POS
- more value to 0.0 and POS. My dream is that all T3 modules, dreadnoughts, neural boosters and of course Titans can only and exclusively be build in 0.0 using player owned structures.
_________________________________________________
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.02.08 12:35:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Andrue on 08/02/2005 12:36:33
Originally by: Agenor Deteis some good points here. All mentioned complains could be solved using one, already implemented feature: POS. Up to date, they are only moon miners or safespots, but they could be so much more! We need:
- the possibility to enable all features on a POS which empire stations can offer.
- "show pilots in space" only accessible in a certain area around the system of the POS
- more value to 0.0 and POS. My dream is that all T3 modules, dreadnoughts, neural boosters and of course Titans can only and exclusively be build in 0.0 using player owned structures.
Good idea. I think the current invincibility of POS is good. The only thing I'd add is a specific decay factor. Have stations start dying when the fuel runs out. That way you don't get hundreds of them cluttering the place up. But yes allow players to build their POSes up into 'uber' stations. They could offer goods and/or services that you can't get in empire but that even an Empire player would want. How about a cheaper clone but one that wears out. Half the price but you have to buy one every couple of weeks.
Imagine if the only place to get T2 items was a POS in deepest, darkest 0.0? Even an Empire lackey like me needs T2 items (well I need Miner IIs anyway <g>) and I'd venture out there regularly to get T2 items and try and sneak them back into Empire. Now that would be trading for profit and trading for fun.
I would pay for safe passage. Or get someone to run guard for me. Or just creep around nervously. Whatever - think how many more players would enter 0.0 if there was something there that they needed? -- (Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2005.02.08 13:48:00 -
[40]
You know the real answer is to have more npc empire corps out in 0.0. The goal of the map is to change the map. Why not have stations become conquarble and new npc being creadted. The map must be in flux. Have new stargates pop up. Have conflict between NPC where you can choose side and help the cause.
What is missing in Eve is the Role Play of the environment. Have game masters create game experiences. Hire a crew of GM that are like dungeon masters. Have them access the forum,s create events and make Eve alive. I am tired of Alliances controlling the news and changing the game. We need more CCP interaction with our game play.
There have been few we need constant interaction. I bet you could find a few good GM that want to create a new eve.
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
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slip66
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Posted - 2005.02.08 13:59:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sphalerite Empire is full and 0.0 is quiet becuase somebody at CCP decided that agent whoring should be the number 1 way to make isk and find modules, and the *only* way to get all the cool new faction/T2 toys. The risk/reward scale for agent missions is so out of whack that its not even funny.
If someone had said 6 months ago that the best place to make isk in EVE would be at a safespot in Yulai, We'd have all laughed in their face, yet here we are.
well said. empire is waaaay to profitable for the risk involved. And a new person doesnt have to work "hard" now days to get a battleship. Not with bargers and cruisers like the osprey its very easy in comparison, too when the game started. Back then getting a BS actually WAS hard work.
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H Zub
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Posted - 2005.02.08 14:00:00 -
[42]
One of the reasons of a very crowded empire space after Exodus is the new war declaration system. Captain Morgan Society Me parrot Movie |
Oosel
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Posted - 2005.02.08 14:07:00 -
[43]
0.0 used to be more fun a year ago when you only had to watch out for pirates in 0.0 now the alliances there themselves pop you in an instant.......not everyone eats sleeps and breathes eve so therefore band into the small corps who are all on at same time in a small group and are deemed no use in an alliance....they are doing exactly what they were told to do by the self same people who are now complaining that they wont go out into 0.0.....they were told go back to empire noob this is space for the big boys......
you guys sowed the seed now your reaping what you sowed if alliances werent so damm petty and think anyone there is just there to******ure npc and belts but instead allowed smaller industrialists in and npc hunters ure stations would fill with goods and ores which in turn would promote more trade....your pvp'ers would then be paid to protect space and when not doing this then get paid to protect these smaller corps on ops.....
greed is human nature though so things wont change meanwhile the likes of bob and co will grow stronger by the week as they get more and more players who are disolusioned by being hounded out of 0.0.........if pos worked as we were led to believe this too might tempt a few more bods into risking the trip out there
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Bunny Wunny
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Posted - 2005.02.08 14:44:00 -
[44]
you know what we need? REAL player owned stations where you can dock and trade etc deep in 0.0 that would give allianes an income for letting people USE their space that in turn would give them an incentive to stop any blockades that happen because it would stop their trade! I think CCP are going to introduce this since we have the "brokers fee" etc so that corps take a % and people get accsess to 0.0
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NaZguL
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Posted - 2005.02.08 17:32:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Bunny Wunny you know what we need? REAL player owned stations where you can dock and trade etc deep in 0.0 that would give allianes an income for letting people USE their space that in turn would give them an incentive to stop any blockades that happen because it would stop their trade! I think CCP are going to introduce this since we have the "brokers fee" etc so that corps take a % and people get accsess to 0.0
i think you are right , we wont get out too 0.0 until the alliances can take 50% of what we possibly can make out there, make the rich richer imo DEVs play eve in large corp alliances , there cant be any other solution.... or maybe the whining from them have payed off maybe....
anyway enough whining from me, i'm out of cheese. the devs have sayd several times that they want more people (experienced ones) out in 0.0 , but none of the latest game changes have made 0.0 easier to get to , or to be in.
also when the large forum debate about "players in space" in the map was going on, oveur was clear in the point that CCP never would totaly blind the alliances, so i doubt that will realy happend , but imo its the only way to make 0.0 bigger, even if they make the solar systems that arent availible today availible, it will only make a new spot for maybe 1 alliance with the current game mechanics
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2005.02.08 18:11:00 -
[46]
0.0 space is underpopulated for a very good reason.
Most of it completely s u x.
No good spawns, most systems just have your "basic" ores, no refining station.
Most (if not all) of the good areas that have the good stuff have already been taken and guarded by alliances.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking alliances at all. I'm knocking CCP.
They have not properly itemized 0.0 space. You can travel 50 jumps in 0.0 space, visit 200 belts, and not see a single crokite or bisot roid. The systems that do have it are well known already, and are at least patrolled every once in a while.
In short, there is very little reason to go out to 0.0 space. It's fun to do, don't get me wrong. Hell it's even fun to fight your way past a blockade, you may win, you may lose your stuff. That's life.
But as long as you're going to risk your stuff and your life, you might as well be doing it for a reason, which CCP has not provided yet.
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Razin
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Posted - 2005.02.08 19:17:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Also, as long as a few old players keep camping the gates, don't accept anyone BUT PvP minded corps of over 30 people in their precious alliance and just pod anything they see, it will keep this way.
Of course CCP will do nothing about it since they only REAL solution is quadrupling the amount of entrances to 0.0 so that alliances have to settle for smaller parts of space and actually patrol some regions instead of just blobbing at a gate.
Or CCP could introduce a JumpDrive for EVERYONE.
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Lord Xantos
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Posted - 2005.02.08 19:23:00 -
[48]
You know i am your daddy....
------------------------------------------ All the kings' horses and all the kings' men could not put Lord Xantos brain back again. Mindflood, the cause and solution of all lifeÆs problems |
Ranger 1
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Posted - 2005.02.08 22:28:00 -
[49]
0.0's need for infra stucture is indeed the key. POS, either the current "camps" we can make now or full fledged stations should have deployable components that allow trade, repair, etc. with people outside the corporation that created them. More importantly, the owners of the station need two things: 1) A way to make money off the trade and services offered there. 2) An effective set of controls that allows them to decide the parameters of who can and who cannot have access to their stations.
This is the only way to encourage Alliances to fight to keep their borders OPEN, not closed.
Kill the enemy, and break their toys. |
Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.02.08 23:07:00 -
[50]
For the record:
If I could go hunt rats in deep, isolated 0.0 without paying a fee for it, AND without ****ing off an alliance, I'd do so on a semi-regular basis. As for Pure Blind (which if I understand correctly is open highway and not alliance claimed...) its to crowded for my tastes for rat hunting. Heck, if I thought I could get some quite mining done I might even mine. (its been months sense I've done any mining at all)
And no, the game should NOT force folks to PvP to get anywhere. The whole attraction of Eve is that players have multiple options on what to do and how to develope. I've PvPed in the past, had some fun at it, and when I feel like it I will again.
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.02.08 23:14:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot And no, the game should NOT force folks to PvP to get anywhere.
You can get anywhere (not talking location wise here) in the game without engaging in PvP. The game NEVER forces you, in my experience. There are just many different ways to do it.
Wanna become uber rich? Well, you could run lvl4 missions all day in 1.0. No PvP there.
Wanna become uber rich more quickly? Go out to 0.0 and chain a triple bs spawn. Sure, there is a risk of PvP, but hey, you can earn enough to pay of a battleship every couple of hours.
Right there, 2 options for getting to the same "place" in eve. One of them involves 0.0 and the risk of pvp, the other does not.
Make your choice. -- jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.02.08 23:16:00 -
[52]
Originally by: jamesw
Originally by: Sergeant Spot And no, the game should NOT force folks to PvP to get anywhere.
You can get anywhere (not talking location wise here) in the game without engaging in PvP. The game NEVER forces you, in my experience. There are just many different ways to do it.
Wanna become uber rich? Well, you could run lvl4 missions all day in 1.0. No PvP there.
Wanna become uber rich more quickly? Go out to 0.0 and chain a triple bs spawn. Sure, there is a risk of PvP, but hey, you can earn enough to pay of a battleship every couple of hours.
Right there, 2 options for getting to the same "place" in eve. One of them involves 0.0 and the risk of pvp, the other does not.
Make your choice.
Well, yes, that's my point.
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Rira Vanga
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Posted - 2005.02.09 11:58:00 -
[53]
Events and weekly changes to EVE world :(
We have static game. In last year I read sometimes about small events but it is all gone. We had 2 big EVE events but with very low support. Until now we still dont have result web page from Colossus Race.
I didnt saw any information about small events in last 6 months :( Most changes in EVE is about alliances and conquerable stations = its about us players.
I dont like static game and EVE is becoming more and more static. I would like to see some changes. I would like to see some NPC battles nad retaking of regions or stations. I would like help to my NPC corporations with something more then missions :)
Member of NORAD / PVP DB
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Kanonus
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Posted - 2005.02.09 12:29:00 -
[54]
We need agents in 0.0! all over 0.0! not just in curse and syndicate! but everywhere! No i donŠt mean like every system! but ATLEAST a couple of agents in every region to make 0.0 fun again.
IŠll do mission and im a agent-runner, but im not scared for 0.0. I think 0.0 is awesome but without agent 0.0 is not any use for me atm. Hunt npc or mining..sometimes sure. But agent-running is what i like to do.
Just my 2 isk.
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2005.02.09 12:31:00 -
[55]
For the empire problem see agents.
It's that simple.
Exodus where everyone leaves 0 space and piles back into empire. ROFL
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.02.09 12:47:00 -
[56]
Let me just say this.. living in 0.0 is harsh.
Yeah you can earn nice money killing BS spawns.. but you can easyily loose your ship doing this if your unlucky.
There are obviously PvP aswell and one eye is ALWAYS spent on local.
And where does the money go that you earn killing those lovely BS rats or from mining Ark? It normally goes into PvP ships and equipment.. which no matter how good you are you'll looses sooner or later..
Yes 0.0 is rewarding, but it is a very harsh place to live even if you in a stonking great big alliance.
Dont get me wrong, I not whinging. Quite the opposite infact, I love 0.0 BECAUSE its so harsh
If all I wanted to do was earn money and get rich.. I woulndt do it in 0.0.. Id run missions in empire/trade in empire..
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Dasher Prime
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Posted - 2005.02.09 12:58:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Aelita I have feel about Empire space getting overcrowded. Past few months of observation from my deep play grounds in one arm in 0.0 space. When I look at my map for pilots in space then empire shine like star and 0.0 space getting darker and darker.
Last time when I visit Luminaire after two months of my journey thru people-less nice space 200 people on local stoned me in single system. I'd feel a bit deprived because I don't feel comfortable with so many people around.
What's going on in game? Why this exodus from 0.0 space is in progress? It was CCP's plan? Why people are scary from lawless space? Or 0.0 is definitely no way to live and everyone wants to be in centre of all movement?
Empire BIG Blob...80% of players 0.0 itty bitty little blob..20% of players
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2005.02.09 13:09:00 -
[58]
Originally by: lythos miralbar Let me just say this.. living in 0.0 is harsh.
Yeah you can earn nice money killing BS spawns.. but you can easyily loose your ship doing this if your unlucky.
There are obviously PvP aswell and one eye is ALWAYS spent on local.
And where does the money go that you earn killing those lovely BS rats or from mining Ark? It normally goes into PvP ships and equipment.. which no matter how good you are you'll looses sooner or later..
Yes 0.0 is rewarding, but it is a very harsh place to live even if you in a stonking great big alliance.
Dont get me wrong, I not whinging. Quite the opposite infact, I love 0.0 BECAUSE its so harsh
If all I wanted to do was earn money and get rich.. I woulndt do it in 0.0.. Id run missions in empire/trade in empire..
If I wanted to get rich, I'd head back out to 0.0. Mining and chaining out there do earn more than anything I can do in Empire, even missions. The only thing that makes missions worth it is the chance of some loot or items that don't drop with 0.0 npc spawns. Even then, 0.0 earns more and is consistent. You have to factor in some people are spending several hours doing a single level 4 mission and some lose 2-3 ships doing it, so per hour, it's not as great as you might think.
Additionally, Empire isn't as safe as you make out. Level 3 and 4 missions have claimed many ships, as many as 0.0 NPCs certainly, if not more.
Furthermore, if you're in a corp at war, you're scanning local as much as any 0.0 player and you have a tougher time doing it because it's busy - not like 0.0 where you see someone coming on the map 10 jumps away.
I've missioned in Empire, mined in Empire, mined in 0.0. I'd still choose Arkonor for fastest route to wealth and I wasn't as nervous of danger out there as I am running around Minmatar space with the CVA lurking in the shadows.
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Karrde CZ
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Posted - 2005.02.09 18:24:00 -
[59]
Not that this is perfectly on-topic here, but this is bullshyt. You cannot just hop on and make 100 million in 2 hours. First of all it takes time an patience to START that spawn. Could be up to 4 hours. Then the spawn gets reset after DT. So there is MUCH more time involved than just a couple of hours spawning BS's. And besides half the 0.0 systems don't even spawn BS's.
Originally by: jamesw Wanna become uber rich more quickly? Go out to 0.0 and chain a triple bs spawn. Sure, there is a risk of PvP, but hey, you can earn enough to pay of a battleship every couple of hours.
..............................
2005.03.23 05:41:55combatYour 720mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Mercenary Fighter, wrecking for 879.0 damage. |
Shidhe
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Posted - 2005.02.09 18:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Nero Scuro .....
And thirdly, yes 0.0 sucks. That's why there's only 100-300 people in it when there are thousands in empire. Put more 0.0 stations in, CCP, nerf the map, and get rid of chokepoints. It wouldn't even be particularily hard to implement OR balance.
...
Agree - especially with the getting rid of chokepoints - and I agree to the post that wanted player owned stations with real facilities, not just manufacturing sites. It will become in the alliances interests to make space more open, if they make money by allowing free trade at their stations.
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