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Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1008
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 23:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
So ganking has in some part received one more nail in its resplendent coffin. So in review hulks are still easily killed yet for very little loss in yield everyone can move to more heavily tanked super cargo miners.
The problem: its harder to gank them in 8 seconds so they must be nerfed? No. NPC CORPS. The true problem is NPC corps. Safety nets for the wardeck uninclined. The only desire to truly leave them in highsec is if you mission run due to taxes. Why would the masses of miners want to leave this sanctuary? Nothing. Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.
I would suggest the Empire Ore Permit issued in a joint venture from ORE and Concord due to the lack or resources from within the built up empires. You can ONLY mine in highsec as a player corp for a small insignificant fee (included in your corporation registration so you wont notice it) to force you into a player corp. Any player corp. Just to be a valid target as a entrepreneur.
What would this cause? War targets. What would see more use? Mercenaries. What about new players? A 30 day miner permit that is only useful for pilots under 30 days old. Much like the Cerebral Accelerator booster.
What if I try and mine while in a NPC corp? Concord shows up and confiscates any miner highslots from your fit. (after a warning screen for an invalid target of course)
Haulers can still be protected in NPC corps though. Not that ganking them was ever hard and could still happen to save on wardec cost. Yet we could always make ore illegal if not in a player corp. How about that?
Oh and increase mission runner taxes more in NPC corps.
DOWN WITH NPC CORPS. |
Ensign X
127
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 23:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Did you come up with this idea all on your own? Your momma must be so proud of you for wearing your big boy pants!
Here, have a cookie. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
508
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 23:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:DOWN WITH NPC CORPS. The Final Solution. Nothing Found |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1008
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 23:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Did you come up with this idea all on your own? Your momma must be so proud of you for wearing your big boy pants! Here, have a cookie. Not enough hate in the right direction. |
Jim Era
Genco Fatal Ascension
1428
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 23:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
You know, I hate having all of these old threads up on the front page so I'm just going to post in here my hatred of them so that I can not bump them up anymore than they already are.
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Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1008
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 23:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jim Era wrote:You know, I hate having all of these old threads up on the front page so I'm just going to post in here my hatred of them so that I can not bump them up anymore than they already are.
Quite. I decree NPC corp whining is considered fresh and new again. |
Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
26
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 00:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:So ganking has in some part received one more nail in its resplendent coffin. So in review hulks are still easily killed yet for very little loss in yield everyone can move to more heavily tanked super cargo miners.
The problem: its harder to gank them in 8 seconds so they must be nerfed? No. NPC CORPS. The true problem is NPC corps. Safety nets for the wardeck uninclined. The only desire to truly leave them in highsec is if you mission run due to taxes. Why would the masses of miners want to leave this sanctuary? Nothing. Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.
I would suggest the Empire Ore Permit issued in a joint venture from ORE and Concord due to the lack or resources from within the built up empires. You can ONLY mine in highsec as a player corp for a small insignificant fee (included in your corporation registration so you wont notice it) to force you into a player corp. Any player corp. Just to be a valid target as a entrepreneur.
What would this cause? War targets. What would see more use? Mercenaries. What about new players? A 30 day miner permit that is only useful for pilots under 30 days old. Much like the Cerebral Accelerator booster.
What if I try and mine while in a NPC corp? Concord shows up and confiscates any miner highslots from your fit. (after a warning screen for an invalid target of course)
Haulers can still be protected in NPC corps though. Not that ganking them was ever hard and could still happen to save on wardec cost. Yet we could always make ore illegal if not in a player corp. How about that?
Oh and increase mission runner taxes more in NPC corps.
DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.
Allow wardecs against NPC corps.
Then, when the NPC navy fleet shows up with its caps and supers it'll be just like an incursion for the war-deccers corp alone. And also a bit like faction war where the war-deccers corp is denied access to stations etc until they can take them by force. etc. Sounds like fun!
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Hypercake Mix
Magical Rainbow Bakery
18
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Posted - 2012.08.29 00:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
I suppose someone gave the order "MAKE MANY THREADS ABOUT HIGH-SEC"
Edit: Oh, lots of them are just necro-posts. |
Ensign X
127
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 00:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:[Not enough hate in the right direction.
Pity =/= Hate.
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Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1008
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 00:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:
Allow wardecs against NPC corps.
Then, when the NPC navy fleet shows up with its caps and supers it'll be just like an incursion for the war-deccers corp alone. And also a bit like faction war where the war-deccers corp is denied access to stations etc until they can take them by force. etc. Sounds like fun!
Alternatively, and a little more simply. Auto movement from a civilian NPC corp to NPC navy in one month. A garbage chute into FW in a way. |
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Zaraz Zaraz
Imperial Planetology Academy
26
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 00:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Zaraz Zaraz wrote:
Allow wardecs against NPC corps.
Then, when the NPC navy fleet shows up with its caps and supers it'll be just like an incursion for the war-deccers corp alone. And also a bit like faction war where the war-deccers corp is denied access to stations etc until they can take them by force. etc. Sounds like fun!
Alternatively, and a little more simply. Auto movement from a civilian NPC corp to NPC navy in one month. A garbage chute into FW in a way.
LOL, kind of like getting drafted?
Conscription in Eve, could work!
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Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1008
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 00:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zaraz Zaraz wrote:
LOL, kind of like getting drafted?
Conscription in Eve, could work!
Exactly. "You are not pulling your own weight sitting on your NPC couch. Time for you to earn your keep. Here is your standard issue camo." |
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management Unified Church of the Unobligated
675
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 00:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm liking the ideas, NPC corps are part of the reason so much ganking has been going on in high sec, it's the only recourse some people had since the NPC corps can't be war decced. I think the idea of preventing all those mining alts from sitting in NPC corps has some merit, if they want to affect the economy they should have to deal with the possibility of others affecting their livelihood.
That would sure shake things up. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1009
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 00:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Virgil Travis wrote:I'm liking the ideas, NPC corps are part of the reason so much ganking has been going on in high sec, it's the only recourse some people had since the NPC corps can't be war decced. I think the idea of preventing all those mining alts from sitting in NPC corps has some merit, if they want to affect the economy they should have to deal with the possibility of others affecting their livelihood. That would sure shake things up. That's all it is. And the apathy of a few individuals shows just how often it has come up before. Yet this most glaring flaw has yet been addressed. Only a few symptoms but not the disease. It's not miners, its not gankers, its not the act of living in highsec. It stems from NPC corps. The revamp of the wardeck system is pointless still. Once npc is the proper rookie stepping stone as they always should have been. The new mechanics actually become used. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1746
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 00:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:... to force you into a player corp.
I guess the concept of 'sandbox' only counts for some and not others.
How about when your sec status goes to neg 5 you are forced to stay out of high sec? How about if you are global you are forced not to be able to warp and your weapons don't work?
I thought so.
Mr Epeen
There is no excuse beyond fatalistic self-indulgence and sheer laziness for doing nothing --á Iain Banks |
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management Unified Church of the Unobligated
675
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 00:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Virgil Travis wrote:I'm liking the ideas, NPC corps are part of the reason so much ganking has been going on in high sec, it's the only recourse some people had since the NPC corps can't be war decced. I think the idea of preventing all those mining alts from sitting in NPC corps has some merit, if they want to affect the economy they should have to deal with the possibility of others affecting their livelihood. That would sure shake things up. That's all it is. And the apathy of a few individuals shows just how often it has come up before. Yet this most glaring flaw has yet been addressed. Only a few symptoms but not the disease. It's not miners, its not gankers, its not the act of living in highsec. It stems from NPC corps. The revamp of the wardeck system is pointless still. Once npc is the proper rookie stepping stone as they always should have been. The new mechanics actually become used.
Besides the odd NPC corp that I've heard has good support for new players, it would help many escape the clutches of the evernoobs that spend their entire careers in those starter corps, never seem to really experience and thus learn the game and end up giving new players some of the worst advice that can be given. I've heard some really bad stories about the help offered in some of those starter corps, I've even had to witness the rubbish spewed in corp chat when moving between corps.
It's horrifying. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims. |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1010
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 00:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:... to force you into a player corp. I guess the concept of 'sandbox' only counts for some and not others. How about when your sec status goes to neg 5 you are forced to stay out of high sec? How about if you are global you are forced not to be able to warp and your weapons don't work? I thought so. Mr Epeen
The argument for sandbox should be player content. NPC corps are CCPs fault it is player abused. As they tried to nudge more people out of it with more taxes proves this. Yet they only really effected mission runners. And that poor group got more nerfs than just a npc tax. Yet plenty still farm them just as many still mine with the same old awful mechanics but in new awesome "balanced!" ships.
Making people accountable for their effect on the markets is exactly the same as being punished after GCC. I don't believe you can warp after GCC in high anymore anyway. If your sec status is -5, all players can attack you anyway. That is sandbox. That is being accountable for your actions which led you to -5
Come up with better. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1746
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 01:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: If your sec status is -5, all players can attack you anyway. That is sandbox. That is being accountable for your actions which led you to -5
Come up with better.
That's not the same as neg 5 being forced to rat up their status to be allowed in high sec. Even neg ten has a free pass in high sec. So the gankers get a free pass but you want to take what little shelter is left for the casual player away?
No that it would ever happen, but it sure would be Interesting to see how fast the server population drops if it ever did.
Mr Epeen
There is no excuse beyond fatalistic self-indulgence and sheer laziness for doing nothing --á Iain Banks |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
245
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 01:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yes, those 500 guys on average, at any given time in each of the NPC corps, are the reason for all of EVE's problems and why people gank.
Dear OP, How many high sec corps is your little 2 man corp currently at war with? Because when I'm flying around high sec on my alt, I see a shitton of people in player made corps also flying around high sec.
And explain to me, why exactly, that guy in a barge, who is a member of a player corp got suicide ganked while he was mining again? Oh, because the guy who ganked him was in an NPC corp, and the other guy didn't want to pay the wardec fee or put himself in a possition of being attackable while flying around high sec. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
536
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 01:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:So ganking has in some part received one more nail in its resplendent coffin. So in review hulks are still easily killed yet for very little loss in yield everyone can move to more heavily tanked super cargo miners.
The problem: its harder to gank them in 8 seconds so they must be nerfed? No. NPC CORPS. The true problem is NPC corps. Safety nets for the wardeck uninclined. The only desire to truly leave them in highsec is if you mission run due to taxes. Why would the masses of miners want to leave this sanctuary? Nothing. Ore cant be taxed as it is collected unlike bounties.
I would suggest the Empire Ore Permit issued in a joint venture from ORE and Concord due to the lack or resources from within the built up empires. You can ONLY mine in highsec as a player corp for a small insignificant fee (included in your corporation registration so you wont notice it) to force you into a player corp. Any player corp. Just to be a valid target as a entrepreneur.
What would this cause? War targets. What would see more use? Mercenaries. What about new players? A 30 day miner permit that is only useful for pilots under 30 days old. Much like the Cerebral Accelerator booster.
What if I try and mine while in a NPC corp? Concord shows up and confiscates any miner highslots from your fit. (after a warning screen for an invalid target of course)
Haulers can still be protected in NPC corps though. Not that ganking them was ever hard and could still happen to save on wardec cost. Yet we could always make ore illegal if not in a player corp. How about that?
Oh and increase mission runner taxes more in NPC corps. As if I wasn't clear enough: DOWN WITH NPC CORPS. Time to expose people to the universe. It brings validity to everyone's actions. Most would still never be bothered due to new wardec costs for small groups anyway but enough of the shielding. This was almost new again. seems a ton of **** was necroed recently.
i wrote a thread simular to this a few months back but with my syle of pros and the fact i choose to post with an npc alt no one took me serious... hopefully with you proper use of periods and capital letters people can get behind an idea like this. Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
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Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1012
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 01:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: If your sec status is -5, all players can attack you anyway. That is sandbox. That is being accountable for your actions which led you to -5
Come up with better.
That's not the same as neg 5 being forced to rat up their status to be allowed in high sec. Even neg ten has a free pass in high sec. So the gankers get a free pass but you want to take what little shelter is left for the casual player away? No that it would ever happen, but it sure would be Interesting to see how fast the server population drops if it ever did. Mr Epeen And current NPC players can effect the biggest part of the game, the market. Almost completely unrestrained in the so called "little shelter" with the only interruption from the smallest of communities, the gankers. So instead, NPC corps should get a free pass to not play with the rest of civilization because you say you are casual? The "casual" does not need NPC protection. My alts are in personal corps and have never been harassed. If I am, my god, I have mercenaries. What else would you use your isk for? If you are targeted, you are not as casual as you let on. Or you said something stupid. Which should lead to consequence.
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Yes, those 500 guys on average, at any given time in each of the NPC corps, are the reason for all of EVE's problems and why people gank. Dear OP, How many high sec corps is your little 2 man corp currently at war with? Because when I'm flying around high sec on my alt, I see a shitton of people in player made corps also flying around high sec. And explain to me, why exactly, that guy in a barge, who is a member of a player corp got suicide ganked while he was mining again? Oh, because the guy who ganked him was in an NPC corp, and the other guy didn't want to pay the wardec fee or put himself in a possition of being attackable while flying around high sec. Oh hay goon with alts. Good thing miners got that giant buff huh? Good thing that crime watch change will make those npc griefers with high sec standing attackable by all right? |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
536
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 01:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: If your sec status is -5, all players can attack you anyway. That is sandbox. That is being accountable for your actions which led you to -5
Come up with better.
That's not the same as neg 5 being forced to rat up their status to be allowed in high sec. Even neg ten has a free pass in high sec. So the gankers get a free pass but you want to take what little shelter is left for the casual player away? No that it would ever happen, but it sure would be Interesting to see how fast the server population drops if it ever did. Mr Epeen And current NPC players can effect the biggest part of the game, the market. Almost completely unrestrained in the so called "little shelter" with the only interruption from the smallest of communities, the gankers. So instead, NPC corps should get a free pass to not play with the rest of civilization because you say you are casual? The "casual" does not need NPC protection. My alts are in personal corps and have never been harassed. If I am, my god, I have mercenaries. What else would you use your isk for? If you are targeted, you are not as casual as you let on. Or you said something stupid. Which should lead to consequence.
the only NPC corps there should be are FW...
when you frist start playing you should be put in tutorial in FW...
It would help alot of noobs understand what eve is all about...
but having semi protected NPC corps is just lame and confusing to new players as it makes them think they are safe...
and also its lame because old vets like me can use them for cyno and high sec alts... like me who is a jita/cyno alt Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 01:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: As if I wasn't clear enough: DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.
Sometimes, I think that players like you are the reason that so many players drop out of EVE. I do not think you understand that newbies like me need an NPC corp. We also pay 15% tax rates or something like that, so you have no right to complain. Who cares if 5 carebears worth 50 billion ISK are in an NPC corp? It makes no difference to the game.
It's like saying, cars are bad for the environment, so lets just throw all cars off a cliff.
Without the CAS NPC corp, I probably would have left the game a long time ago. The whole point of an NPC corp is to let a player build up a solid base of ISK before they continue on to go into a bigger corp.
/end thread |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1013
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 01:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: As if I wasn't clear enough: DOWN WITH NPC CORPS.
Sometimes, I think that players like you are the reason that so many players drop out of EVE. I do not think you understand that newbies like me need an NPC corp. We also pay 15% tax rates or something like that, so you have no right to complain. Who cares if 5 carebears worth 50 billion ISK are in an NPC corp? It makes no difference to the game. It's like saying, cars are bad for the environment, so lets just throw all cars off a cliff. Without the CAS NPC corp, I probably would have left the game a long time ago. The whole point of an NPC corp is to let a player build up a solid base of ISK before they continue on to go into a bigger corp. /end thread Kneejerk much? NPC corps purpose is to learn the basics of the game. Then release you like a haw.... ...a dove into the wild. I am not railing for their ultimate destruction. I ask for them to serve their purpose and then are dismissed. A month. A whole month should be plenty of time to get the basics of the game and find a few people. Specially with revamped new player experience. |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
898
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 01:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Did you come up with this idea all on your own? Your momma must be so proud of you for wearing your big boy pants! Here, have a cookie.
You apparently didn't get the memo...we don't troll posts that are actually good. But for future reference... work on your trolling, that was pretty weak. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1747
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 01:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: And current NPC players can effect the biggest part of the game, the market. Almost completely unrestrained in the so called "little shelter" with the only interruption from the smallest of communities, the gankers. So instead, NPC corps should get a free pass to not play with the rest of civilization because you say you are casual?
Oh. I see now. You want to force station traders, who's entire life outside a station was moving to a trade hub, into being able to be war decced.
Yup. That'll sure change the entire high sec dynamic. You'll have 'em running scared.
But, whatever... If it makes you feel any better, I agree. I'm no stranger to being at war and not even realizing it, let alone having it affect me in any way whatsoever. As to how you expect it will change anything...vOv
Mr Epeen
There is no excuse beyond fatalistic self-indulgence and sheer laziness for doing nothing --á Iain Banks |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
509
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 01:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:As to how you expect it will change anything...vOv Well, for one, null-sec alliance hauling alts would be in player corporations. Nothing Found |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1013
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 02:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote: And current NPC players can effect the biggest part of the game, the market. Almost completely unrestrained in the so called "little shelter" with the only interruption from the smallest of communities, the gankers. So instead, NPC corps should get a free pass to not play with the rest of civilization because you say you are casual?
Oh. I see now. You want to force station traders, who's entire life outside a station was moving to a trade hub, into being able to be war decced. Yup. That'll sure change the entire high sec dynamic. You'll have 'em running scared. But, whatever... If it makes you feel any better, I agree. I'm no stranger to being at war and not even realizing it, let alone having it affect me in any way whatsoever. As to how you expect it will change anything...vOv Mr Epeen
The trader is not my concern. Its the beginning of the chain. The raw goods I'm concerned with. Which is of course not all coming from NPC, but enough to be rectified. Dealing with market trader .01 isk scum is a whole different issue which is neither here nor there with NPC corps as you so professionally pointed out the obvious, wardecks are useless.
Why leave a problem. It may not be "the" problem to Eden's ills, but to ignore the cracks weakens everything. The more immunity to basic gameplay breeds more risk adverse players. |
ashley Eoner
46
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 02:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
You vets are hilarious. Most of the problems of this game are actually vet created. You created the mess that is nullsec. You created the mess that is low sec via gate camps and such. YOU have created the problem with highsec by relentlessly exploiting the ruleset to kill newbies. You scream and cry about newbies staying in the NPC corps and then when one tries to join your corp you scream "SPY ALT!!!" or "NOT ENOUGH SP!!!" all day at them. So newbies have the choice of staying in the NPC corp or taking a risk on a small corp that is very likely a ****** corp. On top of that when you don't scream about spies or SP issues you take the opportunity to scam the newbie by taking everything they have or by killing them. Then you come to the forums acting all surprised when newbies stay in the NPC corp.
In case you're wondering I was welcomed to eve by having my first ship ganked when I undocked to do the tutorial missions. Dude just killed me for no apparent reason and when I asked why he screamed "NEWBIE CAREBEAR GET OUT OF NPC CORP" and then blocked me. Days later when I attempted to start mining I was ganked in my hoarder. This doesn't include the rampant can flipping and overall obsession of certain vets who make it a point to hang in the newbie areas just to grief people.
If you want this game to change you might want to take a moment and look at your own actions and how they might be contributing to the problems at hand. You're not hardcore and this game isn't hardcore either. I've seen hundreds of similar games over my decades of game playing. There's nothing special about your ability to play this game. Get over yourself and you might start to see the true problems here. Or you can continue your forum circle jerk about how eve is "cold and hard" and how special you are as people to play such a "cold and hard" game. If you want true "cold and hard" you should turn off the computer and go outside.
I've said my peace as a newbie to this game. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
509
|
Posted - 2012.08.29 02:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:In case you're wondering I was welcomed to eve by having my first ship ganked when I undocked to do the tutorial missions. Dude just killed me for no apparent reason and when I asked why he screamed "NEWBIE CAREBEAR GET OUT OF NPC CORP" and then blocked me. Days later when I attempted to start mining I was ganked in my hoarder. This doesn't include the rampant can flipping and overall obsession of certain vets who make it a point to hang in the newbie areas just to grief people. I lol'd. Nothing Found |
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