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One of most epic (and longest) fights in FW ever

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Psychotic Sidekick Spiritus Draconis	Posted - 2011.01.06 16:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Evil Angel69 That was an awesome fight and i had my (hands?) full with the scimitar repping our guys, it did seem to get more disorganized on the caldari side as things progressed. Also hats off to the scimitar pilots, that was the best logi piloting I have ever seen. As for the Caldari side, I found they started picking up near the middle of the fight. I saw less drakes charge forwards and more focus firing (not meant as offhand insult, but with engagement ranges of 50-80k I think even we had trouble keeping DPS on primaries.. ). They were also more on the ball with warpins as the fight went on, coming in faster and as a group. I was surprised a few times how they managed to land just 30k from us.. especially with that Huginn which really messed me up. What surprised though me was how many hictors there were on the field, where a similar number of Rapiers could have really started eating away at our numbers. I also applaud how you managed to bring out so many newer members in t1 frigs.. add all those rifters/merlins/kestrels to your already sizable group of fast tackle and it really put the pressure on us. All in all GFs all round, I hope all that loot we left in Tama will be put to good use (PS: Next week, same place? ) psy
joshua boston	Posted - 2011.01.06 18:00:00 - [32] I joing FW a few days ago.... first day did a great roam worked with Zee for the first time and got quite a few kills and basically just had a blast. 2nd and 3rd days... fights here and there but it was hard to get into fleets and I was honestly starting to consider going back to missioning and all that....Last night however.... lol That ** was so fun... Yeah I lost 6 ships (i just found out it was that many by checking the killboard) but I really enjoyed the ** out of that fight... I learned some valuable lessons the hard way about particular modules on my fits that I need to change around and how to better employ and ecm ship in a fight... I had a blast regardless of the sound ass whupping I took lol.
Salicaz Caldari draketrain	Posted - 2011.01.06 18:24:00 - [33] Originally by: Idicious Lightbane Oh and Draketrain, what's that with not helping Gallente? So a draketrain member (only 1 i see) stumbles into a huge battle, appears on the wrongside of a killboard (and they are always accurate ) but you still feel the need to insert a comment into a thread about a battle we had **** all to do with? And alot of people say we generate our own reputation in these forums?
Dark Pangolin Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2011.01.06 18:33:00 - [34] Zeerover has all the fun while I'm gone! Glad to hear there was some pew pew!
Bad Messenger draketrain	Posted - 2011.01.06 19:11:00 - [35] Originally by: Salicaz And alot of people say we generate our own reputation in these forums? Who is generating reputation in forums? You can not get any reputation in forums, it does not matter what you post, trollers twist it how they like .
Dark Pangolin Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse	Posted - 2011.01.06 20:06:00 - [36] Edited by: Dark Pangolin on 06/01/2011 20:06:59 Originally by: Bad Messenger Originally by: Salicaz And alot of people say we generate our own reputation in these forums? Who is generating reputation in forums? You can not get any reputation in forums, it does not matter what you post, trollers twist it how they like . We can agree on this!
Oathborne Caldari Genstar Inc	Posted - 2011.01.06 20:36:00 - [37] You klingon bastard's you've killed my SON! Ok guys, stop poastin about this. I already feel bad enough I missed it. When i read about it in the other thread this morning I cried in my coffee. DAMN YOU Time ZONES! HOW I HATE YOU! Congrats guys, sounds like a blast. can we do another one tonight say around 2:30ish EvE Time? Doesn't have to be 3 hours though.
Idicious Lightbane Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.01.06 22:19:00 - [38] Edited by: Idicious Lightbane on 06/01/2011 22:19:34 Serious respect to both Chatgris and Zeerover, I know Chatgris was amazing in that fight, was getting us new warp-ins, pointing, maneuvering us around wrecks balls and target calling all at once. I'm sure Zeerover was just as inspiring and managing his fleet considering morale held out on both sides till the very end, I can only imagine how fatigued both of them were after that fight, FC'ing a fleet for 3 straight hours nonstop while keeping people coming and excited to come back is an amazing achievement in itself. Another cry out to our logi's which did a phenomenal job, they along with Chat were the heroes of that fight on our side.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.06 23:07:00 - [39] Edited by: chatgris on 06/01/2011 23:13:53 Now that I've recovered from that 3 hour ordeal (read, slept!) I thought I might as well add some gallente perspective (not that anything was incorrect in zeerovers post, more filling in some gallente specific details). I believe we started with just one scimitar for the first hour - the pilot asked "what would you prefer, another nano bc or a scimitar". I infamously answered nano bc, but to bring whatever he felt like flying - how glad I am that the pilot ignored me and brought the scimitar! While the scimitar couldn't really keep anyone alive under concentrated fire (not even the caldari thanatos could do that), it did allow us to get repped up after we burned out of range of the enemy and get right back into the fight in a hurry. Very, very useful. We had intel on a large squid gang (about 40 IIRC) around tama. Formed up a nano bc fleet and started moving in that direction. When we jumped into tama, we did so on intel that the squid fleet was all in Sujarento - how wrong we were! There were an additional 15-20 caldari waiting in tama on the kedama gate. Since our fleet was strung out, I had fleet hold their cloak. I estimated that I had jumped first and my cloak would therefore end first. Unfortunately, X Gallentius had jumped first, decloaked first in his lach, and died. We started that fight very disorganized minus a lach, but did our best. After that - zeerover pretty much explained it all. The gallente fleet took a number of station stops to buy more ammo and get more drones, though I do not believe our fleet ever left during a combat session with the caldari: Instead, the caldari would warp in, we'd fight for a while, the caldari would warp off to try and get a better warpin on us, I would ask fleet if anyone needed resupply and if more than one or two people did, we'd warp to station. I don't think we spent more than 2 minutes during any station "pitstop", my fleet showed very good discipline (and stamina!) in resupplying in a timely fashion. The only part of zeerover's report I might disagree with is the role of X Gallentius's lach's (plural!). Quote: Their Lachesis'es are key to holding onto a single friendly while their fleet pounds. While he made our life a lot easier when he was there (and we only had him), he only got on about 1/3 of the killmails (since you guys kept sending him home in a pod :P). Apart from the obvious accolades given to our logi and lach pilots who did a heroic job and contributed a lot of ISK to the fight, I really want to shine a light on who really won that fight for us - the grunts in the nano battlecruisers. Their manuveuring was perfect, they kept diving in for points, burning out when they took aggro and burning right back in once the aggro switched away from them to continue holding points on our primary - a daunting task where one slipup meant you got webbed and dead. Without those pilots, we wouldn't have been able to get even half the kills we did. By no means do I want to diminish the work of the scimitar or lach pilots. (I will say that the HAC pilots had it comparatively easy hanging out at range not holding point :P). But without the grunts taking most of the losses on the front lines and holding the majority of our points, that fight could not have happenned. And said grunts seemed to have been somewhat ignored in this thread. I'll finish off by saying that this fight really became a pleasure to FC about half way through - in the first hour, those who had brought the wrong type of ship, or didn't really know how to fly nano died (not that all losses were due to pilot error, there's a certain amount of "oh ****" that happens). Those who survived really learned how to fly (practice makes perfect!), and I could see our ball of purple reacting perfectly to the ball of orange not requiring any specific movement commands from me.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.06 23:17:00 - [40] (ran out of space in my previous post) Finally - big thank you to our logi pilots that kept me locked and repped at all times. If I had to broadcast for reps on top of everything else I was doing, I think I would have sufferred a multitasking breakdown!

Tekitha Gallente Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2011.01.06 23:23:00 - [41] looks and sounds like a lot of fun and a great fight now wheres our EUTZ suicide squid fleet please ... Qcats are steaming ahead on the killboard for the month thanks to u god damn lemmings! :P Don't believe the hype!
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.06 23:29:00 - [42] Originally by: Tekitha looks and sounds like a lot of fun and a great fight now wheres our EUTZ suicide squid fleet please ... Qcats are steaming ahead on the killboard for the month thanks to u god damn lemmings! :P Don't drop carriers, and undership your enemy. The caldari wouldn't have kept coming at us for that long if they didn't maintain a consistent advantage in numbers and ship types. At one point we were outnumbered 3:1 on the field - and I think SOTF would have probably dropped caps at that point, basically ending the fight. US TZ comms are always full of "dammit, dock that battleship up, if the squids see it they won't fight us". Just some constructive advice on "how to keep caldari shooting at you" :)
Tekitha Gallente Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2011.01.06 23:34:00 - [43] oh we try mate, honestly .. and the whole carrier thing with SOTF is way overblown .. we very rarely drop carriers other than in late night lol fleets (consisting usually of 5 BS's with a cyno) but guys like FG and draketrain tend to be damn organised and unhappy to throw themselves at us :(
Mutnin Amarr Mutineers	Posted - 2011.01.06 23:40:00 - [44] Edited by: Mutnin on 06/01/2011 23:42:43 Sounds like our Cal mil boys need some probing lessons.. it should take less than 30 seconds to get a 100% hit on anything less than 1 AU of a gate/station or any other celestial in space. If any of you need help with this hit me up in Militia chat as there shouldn't be any reason to not of got them probed and tackled if they were on grid longer than 30 seconds at a time. I guess well done Gal guys.. Cal guys I'm disappoint.. edit.. serious offer to Cal guys if u nee tips on probing hit me in Militia as it's pretty easy once you know how.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.01.06 23:41:00 - [45] And to think.... CCP hates FW so very much... Wake the **** up CCP.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.06 23:43:00 - [46] Edited by: chatgris on 06/01/2011 23:45:07 Originally by: Mutnin Sounds like our Cal mil boys need some probing lessons.. it should take less than 30 seconds to get a 100% hit on anything less than 1 AU of a gate/station or any other celestial in space. If any of you need help with this hit me up in Militia chat as there shouldn't be any reason to not of got them probed and tackled if they were on grid longer than 30 seconds at a time. I guess well done Gal guys.. Cal guys I'm disappoint.. I saw a buzzard on field a few times, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually did do this. Tbh, I don't think that tactic would have been incredibly effective: When we were waiting for the enemy, I kept my fleet moving or aligned at all times. As soon as we saw the caldari enter warp, we started a fast burn in case they were warping to us at 0. And it's not like they couldn't tackle us. A number did get tackled and went down - a lot of the fight was fought in the 30km range.
Zeerover Wolfsbrigade	Posted - 2011.01.06 23:49:00 - [47] Originally by: Tekitha oh we try mate, honestly .. and the whole carrier thing with SOTF is way overblown .. we very rarely drop carriers other than in late night lol fleets (consisting usually of 5 BS's with a cyno) but guys like FG and draketrain tend to be damn organised and unhappy to throw themselves at us :( Oh we're happy to throw ourselves at you in the EU timezone. It's just that we have a lot more veteran players for said timezone, which means it's a completely different metagame. In the fight I had with you (8 hours before Tama), we came, we killed and you didn't come back. I understand completely why. We have more and better pilots at that timezone. Several times during the last weeks we've had fleets of 50+, with perfect organization on in the late EU timezone, with nothing to show for it except blue balls. Now if you had Chatgris'es US timezone members to back you up, I'm sure you could have reshipped and returned to give us hell. What I'm trying to say is that the Caldari need more active veteran US timezone corps, and the Gallente need more EU timezone ones.
Mithril Ryder Genstar Inc	Posted - 2011.01.07 00:11:00 - [48] Originally by: Mutnin Edited by: Mutnin on 06/01/2011 23:42:43 Sounds like our Cal mil boys need some probing lessons.. it should take less than 30 seconds to get a 100% hit on anything less than 1 AU of a gate/station or any other celestial in space. If any of you need help with this hit me up in Militia chat as there shouldn't be any reason to not of got them probed and tackled if they were on grid longer than 30 seconds at a time. I guess well done Gal guys.. Cal guys I'm disappoint.. edit.. serious offer to Cal guys if u nee tips on probing hit me in Militia as it's pretty easy once you know how. The were trying, there were a few combat probes and extended launchers picked up from wrecks. But there are some large problems with using that tactic: 1. both fleets were often moving at 1KM/s or more, which means then your "perfect" warpin is 10+ KM away from the guy you locked in on or worse by the the your fleet aligns, warps, and drops out of warp. 2. warping means you come out at the spot with your prop mods off and have to get back up to speed, easily costing you another 10+KM unless you happen to have a short point and land within overheated shortpoint range. 3. Overview updates were bad enough most fo the time, anytime someone warped their distance update was fairly choppy and laggy, someone who looked 5KM from you ended up being 50KM away, or the other way around. That makes getting points, and not getting pointed, quite sketchy for a second or two after any given person warps in or within the field of battle. 4. The fleets were often within engagement range (for the majority of the time), since you can't warp that close it would require a double warp for the fleet, or a properly aligned (and cloaked obviously) warp-to fleet member, not impossible but hard to line up especially as much as both fleets were moving about. 5. If the smaller fleet is smart, they stay aligned out a good deal of the time, and will hit evasive maneuvers or bail the second that something looks like a tarp. 6. Have fun ignoring all of the ship results you don't want and picking the right ship to use as your warp in, not hard, just time consuming and adds more possibilities for mistakes. 7. You're also assuming decent in and out of game skill (both can be learned) and a willing pilot who will miss out on KMs and possibly die in a non combat ship (I know we have issues with getting scanners and logi for that reason).
Mutnin Amarr Mutineers	Posted - 2011.01.07 00:15:00 - [49] Edited by: Mutnin on 07/01/2011 00:20:04 Originally by: chatgris I saw a buzzard on field a few times, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually did do this. Tbh, I don't think that tactic would have been incredibly effective: When we were waiting for the enemy, I kept my fleet moving or aligned at all times. As soon as we saw the caldari enter warp, we started a fast burn in case they were warping to us at 0. And it's not like they couldn't tackle us. A number did get tackled and went down - a lot of the fight was fought in the 30km range. It would also require the caldari fleet to land and apply tackle in a spread out fashion - something I've never seen a fleet really pull off even in 0 range slugfests (caldari or gallente). Not saying it's a bad tactic - but it's definitely not a silver bullet. What the caldari needed was better piloting and better fits (we had our share of propmodless BS's show up too, and they're on the killboard for all to see). I've spent a lot of time over this last month or two drilling into peoples heads tactics and fits for this kind of fighting - with a significant amount of resistance. (Tip: Gallente militia don't like you telling them that gallente ships (with a few notable but expensive exceptions) are generally trash). It was the individual pilots and their piloting that won this fight, not the FC's choice of warpins etc. Any pilot who just showed up to approach shoot the primary and failed maintain complete battlefield awareness (positioning of wrecks, the enemy and their movements, celestials in relation to the enemy to use as warpouts, positioning of friendlies so you know who to warp to to get back into the fight after leaving the fight etc) promptly died. Yea, I must admit that general Milita guys don't really know how to work well with one another and because of that, it's fairly easy for smaller hit and run type gangs to kill them off. Much less the average Mil types even in well known corps from both sides tend to not be that great with situation awareness. I really wish more people in FW would get out of the blobs and do smaller gang work. The big 20-30 man gangs really teach them nothing but how to gank **** or die horribly. As far as getting tackles, from the probing.. you don't warp the fleet in you warp the tackle cepters in to get stragglers as they try to bail. At the very least if you had ceptors warping in on your gang it would of likely forced you out of the fight causing a lot less losses on Cal side even if your entire gang got away. of course that would mean they would have to be working well with one another and we just can't have that in Cal Militia as it's much easier to just troll the chat chan and talk about missions..
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.07 00:25:00 - [50] Edited by: chatgris on 07/01/2011 00:29:21 Edited by: chatgris on 07/01/2011 00:27:59 I definitely agree with the smaller gang stuff. Small gangs also teach you what you need to make large gangs work. Originally by: Mutnin As far as getting tackles, from the probing.. you don't warp the fleet in you warp the tackle cepters in to get stragglers as they try to bail. At the very least if you had ceptors warping in on your gang it would of likely forced you out of the fight causing a lot less losses on Cal side even if your entire gang got away. I don't believe our fleet ever warped away during an engagement - and any tackle ceptors that got even remotely close to us died quickly - tackle was always an automatic primary above all else. One thing I learned from draketrain is that ceptors die very very quickly to a large blob of range fit bc's. Long points didn't really bother us - we just kept burning anyways. I think I only warped off the field once due to enemy fire - the rest of the time I burned behind my fleet out of range of the enemy dps, and then burned back in. 2pt scram ceptors would be a different story, but they are even more vulnerable than long point ceptors. Again - my point here is that the caldari fleet wasn't lacking for tackle or warpins. They had PLENTY of both. They were lacking individual pilot skill (NOT SP) and appropriate fittings. IMO - in fleets like that, fast tackle is pretty much useless. Heavy tackle (lach's and battlecruisers) are what you need. (Our pilot showing up in a lot of small ships, murat, kept doing so not because we asked for tackle, but that he thought the fight would end at any minute and kept bringing the fastest ship he could to ***** on mails :D ) And finally last - no side was perfect. Even after all my efforts, people still brought brutixes :(

Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.01.07 00:39:00 - [51] Hey Chat I'll train missiles if you get 20 kills in a Brutix
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.07 00:42:00 - [52] Edited by: chatgris on 07/01/2011 00:45:44 Originally by: Aerilis Hey Chat I'll train missiles if you get 20 kills in a Brutix But will you fly a nano hml drake with said skills? If so - I might take you up on the offer. But I admit... it's gonna be hard. It is a brutix after all :P EDIT: I also don't know if it's fair to my fleet to bring deadweight to the fight :P
Mithril Ryder Genstar Inc	Posted - 2011.01.07 00:57:00 - [53] Originally by: chatgris Edited by: chatgris on 07/01/2011 00:45:44 Originally by: Aerilis Hey Chat I'll train missiles if you get 20 kills in a Brutix But will you fly a nano hml drake with said skills? If so - I might take you up on the offer. But I admit... it's gonna be hard. It is a brutix after all :P EDIT: I also don't know if it's fair to my fleet to bring deadweight to the fight :P I'll build a nano rail bruitix for you chat, don't forget to keep the guns unlinked ;)
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.07 01:07:00 - [54] Originally by: Mithril Ryder I'll build a nano rail bruitix for you chat, don't forget to keep the guns unlinked ;) I was actually going to go with artillery and ecm drones :) I've theorycrafted a lot of rail fits.. capacitor is an issue.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2011.01.07 01:10:00 - [55] Originally by: chatgris Edited by: chatgris on 07/01/2011 00:45:44 Originally by: Aerilis Hey Chat I'll train missiles if you get 20 kills in a Brutix But will you fly a nano hml drake with said skills? If so - I might take you up on the offer. But I admit... it's gonna be hard. It is a brutix after all :P EDIT: I also don't know if it's fair to my fleet to bring deadweight to the fight :P Never! I just want HAM's for my fleet gank cane :P
Squatdog State Protectorate	Posted - 2011.01.07 03:57:00 - [56] I think the battle reached the point where people just wanted to keep it going and be part of something epic. It was basically a dedicated nano-BC gang with logi support against a fleet of whoever happened to be online and had ships parked in Nourv to keep throwing into the meat grinder. The single biggest thing people are forgetting is that Caldari held the field for 95% of the time and were scooping loot (and huge wads of drones) while the Gallente gang was doing 2000ms in the opposite direction. This was one of the biggest incentives to keep the fight going. Gallente would warp off to refit for 10 minutes at a time and this usually led to an orgy of ninja-looting around the gate, with at least 2 neutral alts in fleet shuttling stuff back to Nourv. Originally by: chatgris My best guess is they stayed on the field since they outnumbered us anywhere between 2:1 - 4:1 throughout that fight. By your own killboard, the odds were around 1:1.5, probably less factoring in the ridiculous number of times Caldari pilots reshipped. Zeerover personally bankrupted his corp's ship replacement program. [yellow]Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigato
Mithril Ryder Genstar Inc	Posted - 2011.01.07 04:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Squatdog I think the battle reached the point where people just wanted to keep it going and be part of something epic. It was basically a dedicated nano-BC gang with logi support against a fleet of whoever happened to be online and had ships parked in Nourv to keep throwing into the meat grinder. The single biggest thing people are forgetting is that Caldari held the field for 95% of the time and were scooping loot (and huge wads of drones) while the Gallente gang was doing 2000ms in the opposite direction. This was one of the biggest incentives to keep the fight going. Gallente would warp off to refit for 10 minutes at a time and this usually led to an orgy of ninja-looting around the gate, with at least 2 neutral alts in fleet shuttling stuff back to Nourv. Originally by: chatgris My best guess is they stayed on the field since they outnumbered us anywhere between 2:1 - 4:1 throughout that fight. By your own killboard, the odds were around 1:1.5, probably less factoring in the ridiculous number of times Caldari pilots reshipped. Zeerover personally bankrupted his corp's ship replacement program. By my taly, 51 Gal mil to 82 Cal Mil. That is the numbers of pilots involved in any part of the fight (or fighting before/after)I know we lost quite a few near the srt when they couldn't nano well or had the wrong ship, and many showed up near the end/halfway through etc on both sides. Our fleet size in system tended to be anywhere from 20-30, the Cal fleet also varied quite a bit.
Zeerover Wolfsbrigade	Posted - 2011.01.07 07:03:00 - [58] A short video by BuckSwanson. It's good, and shows the kiting, but doesn't really capture how absurdly long this fight was. On the tactical front I notice several things, for instance how he gets red boxed by a few people several times
Hidden Snake Caldari Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2011.01.07 07:35:00 - [59] omg ... fg finally made it. calis back in highsec getting slaughtered by more organized gals. gj. In IBS times this could never happen. glad I am out. and yes my dear corp exmembers u fallen to the gavins spell again if u wake up let me know. WE ARE RECRUITING!
Zeerover Wolfsbrigade	Posted - 2011.01.07 08:33:00 - [60] Originally by: Hidden Snake omg ... fg finally made it. calis back in highsec getting slaughtered by more organized gals. gj. In IBS times this could never happen. glad I am out. and yes my dear corp exmembers u fallen to the gavins spell again if u wake up let me know. Stop trolling, would you please? You know full well that one fight does not define a corp. Or should I ask if you believe this defines IBS? Where we, experienced players, and even joint-op'ing with Snuff Box and Legion of Darkness, got owned by the Gallente militia.



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