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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.04 20:54:00 -
[1]
This is an official announcement from the current Board of Directors.
If you do not verify your account within the next three months the balance will be written off.
Your compliance with this directive is appreciated, you can verify your account by supplying your LIMITED API KEY or your BLEEP KEY on the ACCOUNT PROFILE page of OUR WEBSITE.
I reiterate that your failure to authenticate your account by supplying one of the above keys will result in the balance being wiped.
This announcement will be repeated on our frontpage, the ingame EBANK chat channel as well as through mails to the supplied email addresses, your suggestions for further avenues of communication will be appreciated.
Yours Sincerely, Ray McCormack COO On Behalf of the EBANK BOD
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EBANK Amarr155
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Posted - 2010.09.04 20:56:00 -
[2]
Confirming the above.
/finger
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EBANK SencneS
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2010.09.04 20:58:00 -
[3]
This is confirmation I agree to this announcement.
Please verify your account/s within the next three months. This is the final time we are requesting this, delays if your verification will result is loss of account.
SencneS EBANK - Board of Directors. SencneS Board of Directors EBANK |
RAW23
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Posted - 2010.09.04 21:12:00 -
[4]
Back to straightforward theft, eh? I guess it's the season for it with Bobby going rogue.
So, what happened with the suspense accounts? Why was that shelved and why have you reverted to the initial plan that you had dropped in the face of so much criticism?
And to return to my unanswered question from months ago, can you even begin to offer an ethical justification for this given that ebank accounts were sold on the basis of it being a safe place to leave isk if you were going to be out of game for some time? If you don't consider this to be outright theft, please explain why not.
Came expecting progress, left with greater contempt for the board than ever before. |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.04 21:16:00 -
[5]
Originally by: RAW23 If you don't consider this to be outright theft, please explain why not.
A year and some is not enough time to verify you want your ISK?
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.09.04 21:29:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ray McCormack A year and some is not enough time to verify you want your ISK?
My people put their ISK in EBANK because they were leaving the game for some extended period. You'd be disappointing those customers. (Note I'm using the most charitable verb I can find for this, others might call it something else.)
Is there any reason to write off the balance in these accounts? The only circumstance where I might consider it fair is if EBANK was closing down and wished to distribute all its isk among active customers. Is that the plan?
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.04 21:38:00 -
[7]
All we have to say on the matter is contained in the first post. The bank and its employees will not be drawn into further discussion. A subsequent announcement will be made on the 19th of Septemeber.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.09.04 21:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ray McCormack All we have to say on the matter is contained in the first post. The bank and its employees will not be drawn into further discussion. A subsequent announcement will be made on the 19th of Septemeber.
That would've been 100% convincing if you hadn't just started discussing it yourself 22 minutes before. Even if you don't want to be drawn into a discussion, a short post with an explanation of the reasons why the BoD decided on this course of action would be nice.
Props for the timing of the announcement btw.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.09.04 22:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ray McCormack This announcement will be repeated on our frontpage, the ingame EBANK chat channel as well as through mails to the supplied email addresses, your suggestions for further avenues of communication will be appreciated.
Obviously the ISS News. And maybe in some of the eve newspapers created by the community. I will try not to extend myself much since the money is in your pockets to do what you want with it, including theft, but as per the clauses agreed when people deposited this is what it is. A breaching of contract that results in theft. Only valid justification to do it would be the closure of the institution, let's see what you do next so we know what it is.
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Yendor Widdershins
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.09.04 22:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ray McCormack A subsequent announcement will be made on the 19th of Septemeber.
Any one starting a pool on when the actual announcement will be? I'll take October 22nd for the "We're almost ready to make an announcement" announcement.
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SetrakDark
Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.09.04 22:45:00 -
[11]
I can...see...through......TIME!
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Dzil
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.04 22:51:00 -
[12]
September 31st Retired from corp sales. Time to spend some of this on pretty explosions :) |
admiral fovios
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.09.05 03:14:00 -
[13]
Raw, why ask for reasons? We all know the reason. The BoD has been utterly ineffective at restoring the liquidity through investments. Which is particularly unfortunate since we just went through patch where anyone with an ounce of savvy multiplied their money a few times over.
The only workable plan they've come up with in a year and a bit is to write-off as many accounts as they can. "Hrm, we have a 100 accounts which are due 10,000 isk each, but we only have 3,000 isk for each one. We're refusing to just do a cash out because we'll never have our hands on this kind of money and power otherwise, but we suck at investing (which is why we'll never get this money otherwise). Hey, what if we arbitrarely cut those 100 accounts to 30? Nice!"
It's the best idea they've had in a year. Don't gripe at them for employing something which will actually work. If you want to complain about their stealing, their theft occurred when they refused to return money late last year. Old news at this point. Instead, badmouth them for their continued obstinate refusal to give people back their pro rata share of the ruins of ebank.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.05 03:30:00 -
[14]
TBH a line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere.
1. Along time ago EBANK asked for limited API data to verify accounts. 2. A time frame was given until March 20101 (iirc). 3. Major howls of protests from many people stating they didn't trust EBANK with the data. 4. After much discussion the idea of using BLEEP KEY was recommended 5. Although this is a much longer timeframe than would have been helpful this is now implemented. 6. This has covered all concerns over security of information 7. Announcements have been made, and e-mails (according to EBANK) have been sent
It is now time to move on. EBANK is not realistically going to get back to a 2T capital base in a reasonable timeframe. Now that most customer concerns about security have been addressed it is reasonable that account verification be carried out.
Some people are going to lose out, but it is now better to pay out some people than none.
I fully endorse wiping accounts that have not been verified in 3 months. If at that time the verified accounts is less or equal to current assets then the bank can turn on functionality and if people wish to withdraw their cash they may do so, and will likely lead to a mass liquidation.
Time to move on from mud slinging, who is to blame, why people didn't invest in expansions, etc....
Time to get some cash out (if possible).
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Filious Tacabus
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.09.05 08:41:00 -
[15]
I was told you guys would reset pending accounts within a week, there have gone three weeks now. Any eta on this beeing done?
Fili
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.05 16:46:00 -
[16]
Anyone know of a decent email shot service?
There are 4,466 unique, seemingly valid email addresses in the lolbank database, which would mean 45 separate messages and the chance of getting my gmail account temporarily suspended if more than 25 addresses per message bounce back.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.09.05 17:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ray McCormack Anyone know of a decent email shot service?
There are 4,466 unique, seemingly valid email addresses in the lolbank database, which would mean 45 separate messages and the chance of getting my gmail account temporarily suspended if more than 25 addresses per message bounce back.
Sending a bulk mail will just result in spam filters being triggered (it's easy to detect your attempt) and your effort will be in vain.
You'd better just setting up a proper email account with smtp and send max 3 recipents at a time. One quick way to do that is to go in one free web hosting that supports ie. smtp and PHP and upload & start a free php mailing script you can find in many places, ie phpclasses.org - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Cobalt Sixty
Caldari The Price of Darkness
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Posted - 2010.09.05 17:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: cosmoray 2. A time frame was given until March 20101 (iirc).
I hope this is a typing error, and that this isn't something that could take longer than it could for CCP to rebalance Rockets, boost Assault Frigates, etc, etc, etc.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.05 17:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Sending a bulk mail will just result in spam filters being triggered (it's easy to detect your attempt) and your effort will be in vain.
You'd better just setting up a proper email account with smtp and send max 3 recipents at a time. One quick way to do that is to go in one free web hosting that supports ie. smtp and PHP and upload & start a free php mailing script you can find in many places, ie phpclasses.org
Yes, and I am looking for a service that does this for me so I don't have to go to all that bother.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.09.05 18:40:00 -
[20]
Translation:Either confirm you're here playing eve or you'll be stripped of of your assets by e-thieves. knowledge is power |
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Sexy Suzie
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Posted - 2010.09.05 20:40:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ray McCormack This is an official announcement from the current Board of Directors.
If you do not verify your account within the next three months the balance will be written off.
Your compliance with this directive is appreciated, you can verify your account by supplying your LIMITED API KEY or your BLEEP KEY on the ACCOUNT PROFILE page of OUR WEBSITE.
I reiterate that your failure to authenticate your account by supplying one of the above keys will result in the balance being wiped.
This announcement will be repeated on our frontpage, the ingame EBANK chat channel as well as through mails to the supplied email addresses, your suggestions for further avenues of communication will be appreciated.
Yours Sincerely, Ray McCormack COO On Behalf of the EBANK BOD
Guys why draw this thing out, you like messing with people?
Just take all the isk already and be done with it. Get on with your lives and finally prove to everyone what most people already know- you guys are thieves.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.09.06 02:43:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ray McCormack Yes, and I am looking for a service that does this for me so I don't have to go to all that bother.
I can do that service for you. All I require is your full api key and a unsecured loan of 400B. I hear you guys are into that kind of stuff. - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.09.06 03:46:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Originally by: Ray McCormack Yes, and I am looking for a service that does this for me so I don't have to go to all that bother.
I can do that service for you. All I require is your full api key and a unsecured loan of 400B. I hear you guys are into that kind of stuff.
old joke is old. |
Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.09.06 05:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Estel Arador Many people put their ISK in EBANK because they were leaving the game for some extended period. You'd be disappointing those customers.
I don't generally involve myself in the bank debating here, but I could have told you or anyone else who bought into the banking scheme years ago this was unrealistic.
I am by no means implying that the board is holding high the banner of ethics here, but at the end of the day this will always be EVE, not the FDIC insured banking institutions (which, have failed on several occasions themselves) that you might want to compare it to.
My advice to you and anyone else who was sucker enough to leave a large amount of isk with ebank: Cut your losses and count any isk you're refunded as a welcome suprise.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.09.06 07:07:00 -
[25]
I am someone who has never spared a criticism for EBANK even when it was an untouchable group of gods. I have been flamed and even lost something I really valued (friendly talks with Athre).
But now I feel like it's time to say something in defense of them.
While they seem to have preserved something of their old ways (which they risk to dearly pay for later) they are attempting to do what in EvE is unseen: renounce to an already ongoing fantastic chance to scam very big & dump people & do a runner like everyone seem to do nowadays.
Of course their priority is 95% focused on saving the bank (with the 1000 shades of meaning it may have) so they WILL steamroll over any obstacle. But this could lead to the indirect consequence of having depositors being able to withdraw and since this is EvE, this is not something that would normally happen but they are also trying to do that.
Ray looks like a douche and some have doubts about his ability to generate very competitive profits in a normal scenario. But here's the catch, this is not a normal scenario, he looks like he's one of those very few gifted managers (they are very rare even in RL) who have a keen ability to recover from catastrophes. To achieve that, a considerable amount of guts and belly hair are required and impopular choices are needed.
Of course, his approach with people is not exactly an example of PR but PR can always come later, once the workhorse is done with the dirty work. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.09.06 07:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I am someone who has never spared a criticism for EBANK even when it was an untouchable group of gods. I have been flamed and even lost something I really valued (friendly talks with Athre).
But now I feel like it's time to say something in defense of them.
While they seem to have preserved something of their old ways (which they risk to dearly pay for later) they are attempting to do what in EvE is unseen: renounce to an already ongoing fantastic chance to scam very big & dump people & do a runner like everyone seem to do nowadays.
Of course their priority is 95% focused on saving the bank (with the 1000 shades of meaning it may have) so they WILL steamroll over any obstacle. But this could lead to the indirect consequence of having depositors being able to withdraw and since this is EvE, this is not something that would normally happen but they are also trying to do that.
Ray looks like a douche and some have doubts about his ability to generate very competitive profits in a normal scenario. But here's the catch, this is not a normal scenario, he looks like he's one of those very few gifted managers (they are very rare even in RL) who have a keen ability to recover from catastrophes. To achieve that, a considerable amount of guts and belly hair are required and impopular choices are needed.
Of course, his approach with people is not exactly an example of PR but PR can always come later, once the workhorse is done with the dirty work.
Selective scamming is still theft. It doesn't matter if Ray won't keep the money for himself - at best he is stealing from customers out of misguided good intentions (but since he has never actually articulated why he thinks stealing from customers is ncessary or justifiable its hard to give him too much credit for good intentions). At worst he is stealing from customers in order to burnish the very reputation that you are now complimenting him on. Theft is theft and it doesn't matter whether it takes big steel balls to steal - what matters is that a lot of people seem to have an ethical blindspot that allows them to excuse such actions WHEN it is done by the right people. Let a first time IPO manager try something similar though and watch the fireworks fly. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.06 16:33:00 -
[27]
After a year most posts are still aimed at the EBANK BOD as a bunch of scammers/idiots/incompotent/....../etc.
I haven't seen any decent proposals in months, the only 1 being the use of BLEEP KEY, and this has been implemented.
The only 2 proposals left on the table are to pay everyone out at a percentage of account value equivalent to capital base, or verify accounts and then payout.
I personally think it is now better to go through account verfication. This means those players still in the game get the money rather than scammers, old BOD ALTS, or people out of the game.
If players are still unwilling to verify their accounts they are writing off their account value and that is their choice.
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Cordin Hamir
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Posted - 2010.09.06 16:51:00 -
[28]
TBH at this stage anything that brings this saga to an end has my vote (if there was a vote that is).
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Helen Hunts
Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.06 16:51:00 -
[29]
Since I've done the verification thing long ago, I'm covered.
It's not that difficult, folks.
The notification was put out long ago. The deadline was extended a further 6 months. The transient population of EVE that hasn't had word by now is too lazy to check on their money at least once a year and/or has no friends to give them a heads up about things.
Hey AC, maybe some flashing neon for the site is in order. _______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money.
Any Questions? |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.09.06 16:53:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Selective scamming is still theft. It doesn't matter if Ray won't keep the money for himself - at best he is stealing from customers out of misguided good intentions (but since he has never actually articulated why he thinks stealing from customers is ncessary or justifiable its hard to give him too much credit for good intentions).
I don't get your point. I am not defending their actions, just explaining why they do them and how doing different would probably end up without stealing BUT with an even worse evil, complete loss for everyone. I am an external observer, don't try to put me along with them, not for a single instant.
This is live realpolitique in action, Ray can be labelled as you prefer but he is doing what he's been hired for and if there's anyone able to pull this stunt it's him. That's all what I felt like to say.
I don't need to repeat my own opinion about the whole mess in every EBANK thread, I hope.
Quote:
At worst he is stealing from customers in order to burnish the very reputation that you are now complimenting him on.
He's dutifully doing an activity none else would take.
I am sort of emphatizing with him here, because despite their operation is vastly NOT what I'd have done and he's not going to be my next fiancee at all doing like that, he's still sharing a sh!t job like me, where at best you are considered useless, at worse a rep monger. He'll be spent and damned regardless of any outcome, regardless of any choice. He chose to be involved though.
Quote:
what matters is that a lot of people seem to have an ethical blindspot that allows them to excuse such actions WHEN it is done by the right people
There's no blindspot, there's an easy consideration:
- Have them honestly declare how after Ricdic's scam and the known other issues, they declare default, close down and every single despositor loses 80%+ of his money (assuming 20% remains to share).
- Have them make a bad face and get the depositors able to take out more than the 20% they'd otherwise would be able to take.
We are before a rightful approach that will lead to ruin or a pragmatic approach that will save something for someone.
Life is a b!tch, they felt that hard choices are made (read again: T H E Y felt). I won't share their minset nor their ideas but I can see why they are choosing to do the latter. And yes, not for a single instant I believe it's done out of pure honest desire to help the depositors but to restore the Big Institution with all what it means.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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