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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.09.10 22:36:00 -
[271]
Another idea to consider - add another entire galaxy, and make it accessible only via the deepest parts of W-space. Then add more and more W-spaces and K-spaces as needed. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Camios
Minmatar Insurgent New Eden Tribe
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Posted - 2010.09.10 22:48:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Another idea to consider - add another entire galaxy, and make it accessible only via the deepest parts of W-space. Then add more and more W-spaces and K-spaces as needed.
I had this idea too! Yes, another 0.0 K-space cluster reachable only through wormholes would be awesome. Resources should be quite different from current K space so that there will be a great trade through wormholes, and logistics would be extremely challenging but also rewarding.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.09.11 06:54:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Camios
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Another idea to consider - add another entire galaxy, and make it accessible only via the deepest parts of W-space. Then add more and more W-spaces and K-spaces as needed.
I had this idea too! Yes, another 0.0 K-space cluster reachable only through wormholes would be awesome. Resources should be quite different from current K space so that there will be a great trade through wormholes, and logistics would be extremely challenging but also rewarding.
Same proposal as having the empires split up by low/null sec and their resources sorted out.. All of this wont solve the problem of people stepping on each others toe in the low numbered POIs we have.
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Bruce Kemp
screaming skulls Focused Intentions
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Posted - 2010.09.11 09:04:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Pheusia How many of the ~7,500 systems have you actually been to?
Do you know how many systems are in your average galaxy?
About 300 billion.
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Siiee
Recycled Heroes
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Posted - 2010.09.11 09:13:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Matthew I agree it is a lot of distance to cover, but I would question the effectiveness of doing that
That wasn't hypothetical :p That's the actual, meandering route from a roam I was on a couple weeks ago. I did spend a lot of time traveling, and a lot of time using the directional, but you can't spend your time actually making use of a system to shoot at people if no good targets are there. The time spent was a decent amount, certainly not a casual journey, but not an epicly long one either, but that time still covered a significant portion of the width of the starmap. It could have just as easily gone to any corner of the eve universe, using entirely conventional travel, and still been home in time for dinner, as it were.
Originally by: Matthew
So you increase the tendency for people to congregate close to the main hub. This would work to reduce the number of people out in the area where a minor hub would otherwise have formed.
I can see that point, but we do have regional hubs today, and markets of convenience in places such as Motsu, and I feel like the same forces that drive them currently would work just as well in an expansion of space. You just can't see it now because a lot of the demand is self serving. A lot of people use Jita and the other major regional hubs as a retail outlet, and much of that retail traffic would be cannibalized quite easily by smaller retail hubs.
I do think that the general population would contract (closely in proportion to exactly how much "bigger" solar systems would become) tweaks to resource ubiquity would prevent everyone from settling down 3 jumps from Jita, and the new distance between these regions of resources would ensure that the markets can't homogenize too quickly, so these different areas could all thrive on their own. The same trade routes that would diffuse resources among the regions would also carry ships and modules to feed the new opportunities that would be created.
Originally by: Matthew
I'm sure you could get local self-sufficiency in basic items (T1 etc), but there simply isn't enough global quantity of some of the more advanced items to support lots of minor hubs.
That may not be all that bad of a thing though. I won't rush to say it's a guaranteed plus, but perhaps we are a bit spoiled by being able to get anything just about anywhere we want (in empire)
Originally by: Matthew
Resource scarcity would be the main force acting against this, which would lead to more of the "there are loads of people in my belt" feeling of smallness.
Dynamic resources would help that to some degree, which we really need whether the universe gets expanded some way or not. Major population centers will always be that, but competition over fixed volumes of natural resources will force players to spread as densities increase too much (avoiding the L4 mission hub problem), and these increased populations will urbanize the areas that they spread to because there would already be a critical mass of activity to support that.
It also leaves you with real "frontier space" even in empire. Systems that are too far from services for your casual city dweller would be ripe for those willing and organized enough to spend some time working 5 minutes from the nearest docking bay. Actual competitive density in populated areas doesn't have to increase much, but since the spacial density does travel wise, it opens up a lot of gaps between currently populated areas.
Originally by: Matthew
I view what I'm suggesting at the moment to be the first step
I do get behind that. It's not an overnight or an easy fix, and it has even more widely ranging implications than the addition of WH space even.
Originally by: Matthew I agree that the deadspacing of things can add travel time.
I think they should do it regardless of anything else. I'd love to see more aspects of the game with more focus on sub-warp navigation, it's the easiest way to get some sight seeing in.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.09.11 23:43:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Camios
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Another idea to consider - add another entire galaxy, and make it accessible only via the deepest parts of W-space. Then add more and more W-spaces and K-spaces as needed.
I had this idea too! Yes, another 0.0 K-space cluster reachable only through wormholes would be awesome. Resources should be quite different from current K space so that there will be a great trade through wormholes, and logistics would be extremely challenging but also rewarding.
Same proposal as having the empires split up by low/null sec and their resources sorted out.. All of this wont solve the problem of people stepping on each others toe in the low numbered POIs we have.
With multiple k-spaces linked only by W-space, alliances would more or less be forced to choose an area in a single k-space and stick to that one if they wanted to reliably defend it, or else split into two fairly separate branches. You wouldn't get this effect just be adding more k-space between the empires- not to the same extent, anyway. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Zel Nughat
Amarr Nughat Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.12 02:09:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
You wouldn't get this effect just be adding more k-space between the empires- not to the same extent, anyway.
As I said in a previous post: millions of stars, you put millions of stars in the server cluster and leave them out of the map.
That would be great, the only way to know their position would be by going there yourself or by having been told where they are.
An invation of a far away region would require jump freigters flying with the capital ships just to carry the needed fuel.
Merchant routes comming from the outskirts of the galaxy would be forced to carry a heavily armed scort and would be impossible to make just in one go, something that would give them real meaning, the kind of meaning they lack right now.
Market hubs will pop everywhere, everybody would have their chance to build an empire, lose it or let it rot. Right now this is not for just anybody.
Admit it, the EVE cluster has become tiny, we all know tons of storys from this and that region, we all know where this and that is, EVE has become a massively bloated MOG, everywhere you go there is a gatecamp, a clouple roaming gangs, a blob comming your way.
The only times when this is not true, is when there is few people on the server, at night or just right before DT, when all the haulers hurry on trying to get to their destination market as they know population density is at their lowest, their chances of survival at their highest.
So we need more stars, lots more, not just a few thousand, a couple million will do. -------------------------------------------
The moon is a terrible mistress... ...who walks the night with demons of dread. |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.09.12 03:48:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Zel Nughat
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
You wouldn't get this effect just be adding more k-space between the empires- not to the same extent, anyway.
As I said in a previous post: millions of stars, you put millions of stars in the server cluster and leave them out of the map.
That would be great, the only way to know their position would be by going there yourself or by having been told where they are.
snip
DB-dump/bookmarks.. and suddenly all know where and what there is. Happend with W-space.
And scattering people over millions of solar systems won't solve your problem with the low number of POIs, solve this issue in the solar systems we got, then add more if really needed.
Know what will happen with the prices of any resource which is scarce now if there is any incentive to go out there (to harvest 'something worthwhile')? And CCP won't add 10^6 sol systems just for roaming tourists to fly around in, no matter how often you propose that. Gamedesign made that pretty clear.
Please think again why people feel crammed together now. Then come up with a solution. For me it's: - low number of POIs per system (xx belts, x gates, x stations, x planets with xx moons, some x sigs..) - local makes ALL visible in system instant you jump in - ****ty intel system with a crude mix of local/d-scan/probing/overview - no way (why can't I just fire up the WD and see where I go?) AND incentive to fly/warp to the 2nd-star-to-the-right till the morning - repetitive PvE content (dumb NPC, same Missions/Exploration stuff OVER and OVER and OVER.. static, sleepers are step into right direction.. why not in empire yet? not enough cpu resources available? other reasons?) - outdated agent-system (lvl/quality) without competition and/or load-balancing (mission-hubs) - short travel times since public WTZ and stale null-sec with JB's and the new sov system with high HPs and long timers that force large fleets
I mean.. we can't even warp to the 2nd star in each system, although they're supposed to be BINARY!
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Iture
Caldari Arcana Imperii Ltd.
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Posted - 2010.09.12 03:55:00 -
[279]
Originally by: James Lyrus
I want submarines in space. Something with an 'active/passive' sonar style model (think 'hunt for red october'), and a progressive detection - ships gradually showing more info as you scan the (scan for them). And automatic - passive sonar is 'always on'. Active 'sonar' is toggleable, but if it's on, it's on and automatically tells you when it spots something. (of course, given you're broadcasting, they can spot you quite easily too).
I like this idea more than i could ever believe. Make it also dependent on sensor strength and signature radius.
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Awesome Possum
Gallente Isk Relocation Services Stratagem.
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Posted - 2010.09.12 04:31:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Bruce Kemp
Originally by: Pheusia How many of the ~7,500 systems have you actually been to?
Do you know how many systems are in your average galaxy?
About 300 billion.
way to answer the question with crap ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2010.09.12 06:53:00 -
[281]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale I can't think of anything more tedious than going for a roam with a few friends and having to directional-scan around every single system to check for targets, particularly given how much crud is left hanging around at starbases.
This is why the scanning tool would need improvements, I made a big thread once in Features and Ideas about this very thing. Basically though, we'd need stronger filters; such as: 'Ship is piloted'.
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Bruce Kemp
screaming skulls Focused Intentions
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Posted - 2010.09.12 07:00:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Originally by: Bruce Kemp
Originally by: Pheusia How many of the ~7,500 systems have you actually been to?
Do you know how many systems are in your average galaxy?
About 300 billion.
way to answer the question with crap
Yes you did.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.09.12 08:22:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Zel Nughat
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
You wouldn't get this effect just be adding more k-space between the empires- not to the same extent, anyway.
As I said in a previous post: millions of stars, you put millions of stars in the server cluster and leave them out of the map.
That would be great, the only way to know their position would be by going there yourself or by having been told where they are.
snip
DB-dump/bookmarks.. and suddenly all know where and what there is. Happend with W-space.
Knowing what's in a W-space system, or which ones link to other systems of interest is not very helpful if there's no reliable way of getting there.
Quote: And scattering people over millions of solar systems won't solve your problem with the low number of POIs, solve this issue in the solar systems we got, then add more if really needed.
Know what will happen with the prices of any resource which is scarce now if there is any incentive to go out there (to harvest 'something worthwhile')? And CCP won't add 10^6 sol systems just for roaming tourists to fly around in, no matter how often you propose that. Gamedesign made that pretty clear.
I agree, and to begin with the most I'd suggest is adding another k-space (call it K2), certainly no bigger than the existing one (K1), with the same sorts of resources, but no reliable way to get them back to K1 in any great volume. That would mitigate any effects on the K1 market.
Quote: Please think again why people feel crammed together now. Then come up with a solution. For me it's: - ...good stuff that I generally agree with... - short travel times since public WTZ and stale null-sec with JB's and the new sov system with high HPs and long timers that force large fleets
This is primarily what I was thinking of. K2 would be totally cut off from all the existing infrastructure that allows people to set up long supply chains, and which makes it relatively easy to assemble a large fleet from across a wide tract of space. Getting there from K1 would always involve navigating several wormholes, and it would be impossible to get a large number of caps through at any one time.
The existing power blocs would definitely have the expertise to get things going initially, but even if they did manage to exclude any new-founded colonisation attempts, every pilot who moved to K2 would still be one less pilot crowding up K1, for all practical purposes. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Soleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.09.12 08:49:00 -
[284]
Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 12/09/2010 08:55:32
This is a good discussion and there's some great ideas greyscale :)
I'm not sure I agree with making it harder to travel around the universe. Sitting there waiting for your ship to come out of a 3 minute warp just seems dull, and players wouldn't be willing to travel as much, which is the goal, but could also be very bad. Imagine having to go 40 jumps (and back) at that pace...tedious would describe that. The game should be fun, not tedious. And sometimes there's just no getting around making that many jumps. Roaming comes to mind...or having to go to Jita to buy a mod on contract that's not available in your region.
You're right that is already kind of hard to launch ambushes and so forth, since players just hit MWD and scatter without a real way to stop more than 1 or 2 of them, and that this would further hinder that. I think the games become a bit too fast with everyone basically required to use MWD now. Large bubbles don't have the same effect they did years ago when they'd trap whole BS fleets and result in really good fights. Thoughts?
Maybe jump bridges are a bit much, or maybe they're just not expensive enough. And maybe it's a little *too* easy for cap fleets to move around, But they need to be able to travel reasonably, otherwise the game in 00 would stagnate (which I think there's already problems with) as players wouldn't want to ever leave home. That's boring. Locking on to a cyno is a very interesting idea, but that would effectively kill the hotdrop, as the cyno ship would likely die before you could cyno your caps in on the enemy cap fleet. That's really no fun.
Anyways, good chat
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Noun Verber
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.12 10:59:00 -
[285]
Greyscale, what is your opinion of the 'Wild West' system of space where everything was required to be built by players?
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THERisingPHOENIX
Caldari Kaleidascopic Military Association
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Posted - 2010.09.13 09:30:00 -
[286]
Edited by: THERisingPHOENIX on 13/09/2010 09:31:56 Complete removal of gates in null sec
Add mini jump drive for all ships (Different from capital ship jump drive).
-Can only jump neighbouring system one by one -Doesnt need cyno, puts u at random point in system. -Fuel maybe required (Small amout) -Mini jump drive cant be used in high sec. Only from low to null sec and back to low -A catch to this mini jump drive, easy to detect ? Time to activate drive?
Result: Feeling of isolation, no uber gate camp, fun exploration, test alliance sov control etc
Just thought of this in a rush. No idea what reply to expect.
Else more systems is nice, or a way to make ppl group together more to save room? lol
Edit: Contents
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2010.09.13 10:29:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Noun Verber Greyscale, what is your opinion of the 'Wild West' system of space where everything was required to be built by players?
My opinion is that it could be pretty neat :)
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Rowbin Hod
Cloak and Daggers Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.13 12:16:00 -
[288]
Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Edited by: THERisingPHOENIX on 13/09/2010 09:31:56 Complete removal of gates in null sec
Add mini jump drive for all ships (Different from capital ship jump drive).
-Can only jump neighbouring system one by one
What's a neighbouring system if there are no gates?
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Hagbard23Celine
Evoke. Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.09.13 12:58:00 -
[289]
First of all, increase warp time is one of the most awful ideas IÆve heared about in the last month. For a Mission runner only traveling 5 Systems a day it might be ok but if you are doing a lot of small scale roamings you know what my problem is. Like mentioned earlier you won't be able to catch ratters because warping 1min in a ceptor is something you can forget about it. The second reason most systems are empty by now. If you increase warp time you will destroy small scale pvp completely. A normal roaming is something about 2-5h and if you manage to travel only 20 system in this time it is something you can forget about it.
Now to the cyno / bridge problem. Lower the Jump range will just affect small alliances because they don't own the 40 titans you will need to go from deklein to catch with one bridging route! My suggestion: increase fuel cost by 1000%!!! This will increase the price of supers and big alliances think twice if itÆs necessary to bridge 500 ppl on that 10 guys roaming.
And now to the last Problem / Statement Bridges / cynos donÆt interrupt correct scouting. If you scout properly this doesnÆt mean a captor one jump ahead and youÆve done everything you need. If you do scouting right this means you have to know the main staging systems and titan pilots you have to watch staging posses and main jb routes. ItÆs a verry difficult thing and in my opinion this is absolutely ok!
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THERisingPHOENIX
Caldari Kaleidascopic Military Association
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Posted - 2010.09.13 13:03:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Rowbin Hod
Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Edited by: THERisingPHOENIX on 13/09/2010 09:31:56 Complete removal of gates in null sec
Add mini jump drive for all ships (Different from capital ship jump drive).
-Can only jump neighbouring system one by one
What's a neighbouring system if there are no gates?
Judging by light years?
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.09.13 13:05:00 -
[291]
Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX
Originally by: Rowbin Hod
Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX
Complete removal of gates in null sec Add mini jump drive for all ships (Different from capital ship jump drive). -Can only jump neighbouring system one by one
What's a neighbouring system if there are no gates?
Judging by light years?
Then the range is defined by LY, not 'neighbour'..
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.09.13 13:17:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Hagbard23Celine First of all, increase warp time is one of the most awful ideas IÆve heared about in the last month. For a Mission runner only traveling 5 Systems a day it might be ok but if you are doing a lot of small scale roamings you know what my problem is.
What's your problem? That there are not enough targets close by so you have to make long travels to find some? So, if you think about it you got a problem with population density too.. maybe even the same as the empire dwellers who complain that there are too many people around, competing over resources. The area you roam is low pop density, cause it doesn't support more than the density which there is now (hard law of low/null sec).
Originally by: Hagbard23Celine Like mentioned earlier you won't be able to catch ratters because warping 1min in a ceptor is something you can forget about it. snip
Put local in null/low in delayed mode.. doesn't matter how long your ceptor now needs for warping, cause the INSTANT intel is gone. On the other hand now you got the same problem as w-space, with constant d-scans needed by the ones who are doing other stuff than ganking others.. that's why we don't have this yet, as CCP obviously has no new intel system ready.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.09.13 13:22:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro snip
Originally by: Tres Farmer And scattering people over millions of solar systems won't solve your problem with the low number of POIs, solve this issue in the solar systems we got, then add more if really needed.
Know what will happen with the prices of any resource which is scarce now if there is any incentive to go out there (to harvest 'something worthwhile')? And CCP won't add 10^6 sol systems just for roaming tourists to fly around in, no matter how often you propose that. Gamedesign made that pretty clear.
I agree, and to begin with the most I'd suggest is adding another k-space (call it K2), certainly no bigger than the existing one (K1), with the same sorts of resources, but no reliable way to get them back to K1 in any great volume. That would mitigate any effects on the K1 market.
Originally by: Tres Farmer Please think again why people feel crammed together now. Then come up with a solution. For me it's: - ...good stuff that I generally agree with... - short travel times since public WTZ and stale null-sec with JB's and the new sov system with high HPs and long timers that force large fleets
This is primarily what I was thinking of. K2 would be totally cut off from all the existing infrastructure that allows people to set up long supply chains, and which makes it relatively easy to assemble a large fleet from across a wide tract of space. Getting there from K1 would always involve navigating several wormholes, and it would be impossible to get a large number of caps through at any one time.
The existing power blocs would definitely have the expertise to get things going initially, but even if they did manage to exclude any new-founded colonisation attempts, every pilot who moved to K2 would still be one less pilot crowding up K1, for all practical purposes.
I don't like another k-space 'totally cut off from all the existing' k-space.. might as well open a new server for that. We're playing a MMO here.. not a sharded universe.
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Hagbard23Celine
Evoke. Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.09.13 13:41:00 -
[294]
Edited by: Hagbard23Celine on 13/09/2010 13:42:55 Edited by: Hagbard23Celine on 13/09/2010 13:42:34
Originally by: Tres Farmer What's your problem? That there are not enough targets close by so you have to make long travels to find some? So, if you think about it you got a problem with population density too.. maybe even the same as the empire dwellers who complain that there are too many people around, competing over resources. The area you roam is low pop density, cause it doesn't support more than the density which there is now (hard law of low/null sec).
Atm yes there is a problem with the population and finding targets but with a increase of warp time you will get a nother problem. If a scout reports a fleet 20 Jumps out what are you going to do? Tell them to hold because you need an hour to get your fleet in? Small scale means not only ganking ratters!
Originally by: Tres Farmer Put local in null/low in delayed mode.. doesn't matter how long your ceptor now needs for warping, cause the INSTANT intel is gone. On the other hand now you got the same problem as w-space, with constant d-scans needed by the ones who are doing other stuff than ganking others.. that's why we don't have this yet, as CCP obviously has no new intel system ready.
Thats wrong! Putting local in null / low delayed mode won't help! You have to think about the following, you need a bit of time to find them so the longer your warp needs they got more time to use scanner and detect your ship. And you have to think about big Systems with 60AU atm you can scan them in nearly on min. With a increase of warp time and delayed local you have to wait about 5min (depending on warp speed) for your scouts to check System. If you whant to boost small scale pvp increasing warp speed is the wrong way!
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.09.13 13:50:00 -
[295]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 13/09/2010 13:52:17
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk snip EvE is 3-d, no one said it couldn't be put smack dab above something like *rolls dice* Divinity's edge.
There's actually a pretty decent reason for this, which is that layering space quickly makes the map very hard to use. Having a more 3D map would allow us to have more compactness, and it can be argued that it would be more "realistic", but the downside is that it's confusing as hell. snip
A good arguement. If I may offer a counter point, a hot topic is these days is a UI overhaul, what if the map UI was to be given an overhaul. Using your example of the Bleak lands and Devoid, why not be able to have just that region display on the map? No other part of the galaxy, just that area. In GIS, we call them AOI which allows us to focus on that and close connections but essentially have the the rest essentially "cropped" from the big picture. snip
This sort of thing works to some degree, but only for as long as you're only working within the specified region. As soon as you're trying to, say, trawl around various stations within ten jumps of somewhere like Sahtogas, you're going to find yourself pinging back and forth across region boundaries and the problem reasserts itself.
Greyscale, you misunderstood Obsidian Hawk there and as I personally suffer from this (all-time-all-stars-in-the-map-problem) I did pull this from the front of the thread.
The proposal here was to give US the possibility to remove stars from the map which are way out of our focus and interest. Example: Sahtogas and all systems + 2 jumps from Sahtogas. How many stars would be displayed? How complex would the map be? Does it matter to me that some of those jumps go over constellation/region borders? Do I have to look at the whole region if I'm just interested in the area 2 jumps out from Sahtogas? No - the UI has to obey my wishes and not overwhelm me with information I didn't request from it.
The map is so freaking useless and problematic to use, cause WE CANT FILTER the information visible to us. We get ALL stars ALL THE TIME.
I can't even use the map in 3D and scroll around to get an idea about it as there are always all the stars there and rotating/selecting/zooming is a *****.
Personally I would like to be able to just show the stars of my set route - nothing else. Or all stars 1 jump out from that route. I would like to be able to zoom in and out of solar system view for EACH OF THE SYSTEMS along the route.. or whatever system I want. At the moment we can do this only for the solar system we are in - that SUCKS!
Or what about Jumpranges in lightyears? Why can't we set the map to show us systems x LY from our actual position?
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.09.13 13:59:00 -
[296]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 13/09/2010 14:01:22
Originally by: Hagbard23Celine
Originally by: Tres Farmer What's your problem? That there are not enough targets close by so you have to make long travels to find some? So, if you think about it you got a problem with population density too.. maybe even the same as the empire dwellers who complain that there are too many people around, competing over resources. The area you roam is low pop density, cause it doesn't support more than the density which there is now (hard law of low/null sec).
Atm yes there is a problem with the population and finding targets but with a increase of warp time you will get a nother problem. If a scout reports a fleet 20 Jumps out what are you going to do? Tell them to hold because you need an hour to get your fleet in? Small scale means not only ganking ratters!
What do you need 20 jumps out an area for, if there can be more people per system? If you stretch yourself to thin you got a problem.. always will have.. so what?
To me it seems you won't consider/can't think two-three steps ahead.. just one.
Originally by: Hagbard23Celine
Originally by: Tres Farmer Put local in null/low in delayed mode.. doesn't matter how long your ceptor now needs for warping, cause the INSTANT intel is gone. On the other hand now you got the same problem as w-space, with constant d-scans needed by the ones who are doing other stuff than ganking others.. that's why we don't have this yet, as CCP obviously has no new intel system ready.
Thats wrong! Putting local in null / low delayed mode won't help! You have to think about the following, you need a bit of time to find them so the longer your warp needs they got more time to use scanner and detect your ship. And you have to think about big Systems with 60AU atm you can scan them in nearly on min. With a increase of warp time and delayed local you have to wait about 5min (depending on warp speed) for your scouts to check System. If you want to boost small scale pvp increasing warp speed is the wrong way!
Yeah.. I totally said keep the actual intel system for this. Again, you think just one step ahead, not 2-3.
I'll do the same to demonstrate it to you: Decreasing warptimes and make it even faster so that your roaming gangs can catch more targets will lead to just less targets in future as it becomes unbalanced. See?
New Eden needs ways to be able to get more people per system and keep them entertained.. more POIs, longer warps, another & balanced intel system..
Question: Would it be ok for you, if you would get the same entertainment as you get today from roaming 20 systems, by just roaming 3 systems?
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Mindnut
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Posted - 2010.09.13 14:06:00 -
[297]
I agree that that making warp longer isn't a good solution cause it would make travel even more boring. I'd go with adding systems, and a few changes in sov. and exploration mechanics...
I understand both sides of this coin. On one side we/CCP wants players to interact with each other and on the other side we don't want to feel locked in an overcrowded cage. The problem is that some people want to find a system where they can be alone for some time. A place where they will feel as they are the first people that entered it. A place where all the 0.0 riches are available but the chance of a blob attack is almost none. Wh's don't exactly make that happen. Sure you got the riches but it's only one jump from your crowded home system and someone may be right behind you.
Traveling in EVE lacks the sense of adventure. Some don't like the idea of flying 400 jumps and spending 2 sessions for that, but it's exactly what we need. As it stands one can get anywhere within an hour or two - from one side of New Eden to the other. Long travel should prevent alliances from going that far on an op. That way they wouldnÆt be able to control more space then they have under sov.
I honestly think that adding more systems is not going to make this a single player game for some people that want to be isolated. There are others that also want to travel and explore and the far away space is accessible to them as well. At some point you're going to meet someone in your travels. This would make the game more interesting. There would be places that you could meet other players more frequently and places where that would happen rarely. The player would be able to choose that and not be forced to anything. A lot of people want to see less on local but there is also a lot of people who want to be in the center of attention. i.e. Our alliance is strictly pvp so we chose a location for our home to be in hostile territory. Some alliances wonÆt move out into far away places to be alone but if people want to, it should be an available option.
I'd apply the following changes to make the game more adjusted to the vast space that would be introduced:
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.09.13 14:08:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX
Originally by: Rowbin Hod
What's a neighbouring system if there are no gates?
Judging by light years?
Then the range is defined by LY, not 'neighbour'..
I'd suggest that EVE's general 'topology' to be left unchanged and the jumps with such a drive be allowed to be made along the current gate routes, with the exception of highway and smuggler gates. ...
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Mindnut
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Posted - 2010.09.13 14:16:00 -
[299]
1. Map doesn't show average pilots in space anymore. If a miner/ratter/explorer wants to stay in a far away system the map shouldn't reveal where he's been for the last two hours. That would make mining ops with the use of rorquals possible for smaller corps aswell.
2. Sov. can't be gained in a separated system. Once an alliance takes sov. in their first system they can gain sov. only in the adjacent systems. This would keep the big alliances packed and wouldn't allow their influence to spread too far out. I've looked on the map and some of the alliances leave holes in their space. Also, if alliance owns a region they wouldn't be able to claim any of the isolated systems that are in the nearby npc region. An alliance which gains sov. in an isolated system in an npc region cannot expand any further...
3. Add a large number of systems to the existing space but leave half of them undiscovered (gray color) and introduce exploration based on the following: The discovery:
1. To reveal a new system a corp/alliance has to use a new POS structure called "Deep space system scanner". This device allows to scan the far away system and calculate the orbits of all planets and moons to allow a sefe landing for the ôCyno probeö. The process takes around 15 days to complete. The range of the scanner could be comparable to a carriers jump range.
2. Once the system is fully scanned the alliance has to use another POS structure called - "Cyno probe launcher". This device allows to launch a cyno probe into the previously analyzed system. The process takes 30 days to complete, but the result is chance based (5-10% for success). At this point CCP can add a mechanism that would only allow a certain amount of systems to be reveiled per a month.
3. Provided the Cyno probe survived the trip The alliance has now 2 options... A. Leave the system ôhiddenö to others and use ships with jump drive to move in and out. B. At any given time, ôRevealö the discovery by reporting it and have the closest main faction bring and install the gates.
The rules:
ôHiddenö system is only visible to the alliance who found it. It has not rats, no exploration sites. It has belts with average 0.0 mineral deposits. POS anchoring is allowed but the alliance canÆt claim sov. without revealing the system first. The alliance can also install jump bridges and moon harvest. The system can be found by other alliances via same exploration process and revealed.
ôRevealedö system becomes visible to everyone and accessible via new installed gates. It becomes an ordinary 0.0 system marked with a red dot on the map.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.09.13 14:17:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Mindnut snip I understand both sides of this coin. On one side we/CCP wants players to interact with each other and on the other side we don't want to feel locked in an overcrowded cage. The problem is that some people want to find a system where they can be alone for some time. A place where they will feel as they are the first people that entered it. A place where all the 0.0 riches are available but the chance of a blob attack is almost none. Wh's don't exactly make that happen. Sure you got the riches but it's only one jump from your crowded home system and someone may be right behind you.
Scan out the next wormhole and jump into it and so on and so on.. If you really want to EXPLORE and ADVENTURE - there is your way for it. Nobody will see you in local, you won't see anyone unless you and he talks.
Originally by: Mindnut Traveling in EVE lacks the sense of adventure. Some don't like the idea of flying 400 jumps and spending 2 sessions for that, but it's exactly what we need. As it stands one can get anywhere within an hour or two - from one side of New Eden to the other. Long travel should prevent alliances from going that far on an op. That way they wouldnÆt be able to control more space then they have under sov.
So if solar systems would take longer to fly through and there would be more to see/do in the systems the problem you describe would be solved? Ok, local needs to go for that to work too and a new intel system needs to be there I admit.. but then. I can't see how this wouldn't solve your problem.
Originally by: Mindnut I honestly think that adding more systems is not going to make this a single player game for some people that want to be isolated. There are others that also want to travel and explore and the far away space is accessible to them as well. At some point you're going to meet someone in your travels. This would make the game more interesting. There would be places that you could meet other players more frequently and places where that would happen rarely. The player would be able to choose that and not be forced to anything. A lot of people want to see less on local but there is also a lot of people who want to be in the center of attention. i.e. Our alliance is strictly pvp so we chose a location for our home to be in hostile territory. Some alliances wonÆt move out into far away places to be alone but if people want to, it should be an available option.
Again.. somebody staring at local as measurement tool for population density.
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