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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.08.19 14:36:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ori Blake Maybe the reason why its been brought up but nothing has been done is because CCP realizes that they can't change it without making things worse. I've yet to see you give a good reason why it should be changed at all, or anyone posting in this thread.
You mean other than, say, the one in bold in the OP ? "Local is an extremely powerful metagaming tool available to everybody FOR FREE, a tool that allows near-total PvP avoidance (via logoff) in a PvP-centric game, a tool that also enables other metagaming strategies like AKF cloaking and logon traps... all of which are universally hated, but still used because "that's what you do for best results"."
The PvP avoidance is one of the worst things, especially when combined with macro-users that are NOT directly linked to RMT operations (so their detection chance is smaller). Logon traps are almost equally "evil", especially when all you have in there is a single mostly-AFK cloaky scout.
Akita none of this makes sense. First, itÆs not clear that local is a ômetagameö. You jump into a system you are identified by others in that system. Why? Well it could be any number of things û how the gates work, ships have scanners that indicate that (sort of like your dscan revamp idea only without the needing the revamp etc. Second, AFK cloaking is made possible because local is not delayed? Log on traps are made possible because local is not delayed?
Sorry I donÆt see how either of these makes any sense. Log on traps will be much more effective if you donÆt even know the gang is logging on until they are on top of you. With instant local you see local spike and at least have some time to get away. The time it takes for them to end their initial warp and warp to you. With delayed local you will know they logged on when they are on top of you.
Third AFK cloaking isnÆt universally hated. It doesnÆt bother me in the least. When people whine about it on the forums it rarely gets much traction with players.
It allows pvp avoidance. I suppose it does. But your idea of improving the scanner does this as well. Moreover knowing who is in local is a major tool to help me find pvp! When I am roaming I am looking for war targets if I donÆt see anyone in local I know to move to the next system. If I see some war targets then I can scan around to find them. Local delay means it might take much longer to find fights.
The only thing delaying local seems to do is benefit people who like to 1) pvp against pve fits and 2) blob. Sorry but Blobbing does not need a boost.
Nor does eve need to require more people to fit and f around with probe launchers. Its just tedious.
You say this ôwill happenö but I didnÆt see the link. Right now eve is borderline worthless due to the amount of time it takes to find an enjoyable fight without getting blobbed by mouth breathers. I hope ccp recognizes delayed local will go a long way to killing the game for anyone who has a brain.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.08.19 14:46:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2010 13:09:00
Originally by: Minchurra If you really must remove it, why not just make local chat (as it is now) a buyable system upgrade like cyno jam?
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2010 12:47:30 2. Solo players and small groups will get more risk when ratting or plexing.
You seem to be forgetting that the ewil piwates can't see if your in local either.
Thats not a particularly great retort, 30 seconds on DOTLAN (or the ingame map for that matter) will instantly show you your target's ratting systems, the "ewil piwates" know where you are, so you're still at a disadvantage.
So you pick one out of eight points? And then ignore the part about overhauling the Dscan? Scared Carebear?
Actually the one he picked was the only actual advantage of delayed local you offered. The rest of your answers basically amount to ôwell lets change the dscan so that we effectively eliminate any effects delayed local will have so long as you spam the dscan button.ö Nice way to make eve more tedious. And the obvious response is: why not just keep local the way it is so we 1) donÆt need to upgrade the dscan to do those things and 2) we donÆt need to keep spamming dscan like obsessive compulsive ninnies.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.19 15:21:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Cearain You say this ôwill happenö but I didnÆt see the link. Right now eve is borderline worthless due to the amount of time it takes to find an enjoyable fight without getting blobbed by mouth breathers. I hope ccp recognizes delayed local will go a long way to killing the game for anyone who has a brain.
The big dev Q&A thread...
Originally by: by CCP Zulu, Posted - 2008.10.24 15:24:00 Local as an info tool: We want to put local in 0.0 as a delayed mode channel so only people who talk in the channel are shown. We are also looking at other alternatives but if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least.
Plus several other such posts by devs on other occasions, both before and after. Then there's the fact it was brought forth as CSM issue too.
...and so on and so forth. EVENTUALLY, it WILL happen. The only question is WHEN.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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raukosen
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Posted - 2010.08.19 16:00:00 -
[274]
They want to, that doesn't mean they will. Saying it's inevitable isn't a good argument for why it should happen anyway. Stop spamming it
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.08.19 16:19:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Cearain You say this ôwill happenö but I didnÆt see the link. Right now eve is borderline worthless due to the amount of time it takes to find an enjoyable fight without getting blobbed by mouth breathers. I hope ccp recognizes delayed local will go a long way to killing the game for anyone who has a brain.
The big dev Q&A thread...
Originally by: by CCP Zulu, Posted - 2008.10.24 15:24:00 Local as an info tool: We want to put local in 0.0 as a delayed mode channel so only people who talk in the channel are shown. We are also looking at other alternatives but if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least.
Plus several other such posts by devs on other occasions, both before and after. Then there's the fact it was brought forth as CSM issue too.
...and so on and so forth. EVENTUALLY, it WILL happen. The only question is WHEN.
I thought your original post included high and low sec not just 0.0. Also perhaps you didnÆt read the part where in 2008 he says of this ôLocal: I'm hoping we'll have something done to local in 0.0 in q1 next year.ö
Plans have changed Akita.
IÆm not sure what you mean by csm. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/August_2010_Prioritization_Crowdsourcing_%28CSM%29 This link is supposed to contain everything csm passed but ccp hasnÆt acted on yet. I may have missed the ôdelay local everywhereö proposal but I didnÆt see it. I didnÆt even see one passed that would delay null sec. What number is the proposal? But in the end, this thread offers not a single good reason to delay local. And plenty of good reasons not to change it.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2010.08.19 16:23:00 -
[276]
If local got removed everyone would switch to one of the many programs that report local count. There're many and I know a guy who has made two, of which one is excellent. I will not reveal his identity but if local were to be removed only the wise (those with programs running) will surive and these little ebil piwates thinking they're the only ones with them will still be left crying. The only difference will be that half of 0.0 will be even more empty.
I say CCP should do it, they're trolling us as it is with their "We'll probably consider thinking about thinking about EVE in 18 months." schedule. This will just kill 0.0 and we can all go play other games.
AmIdoingitright?
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Eternum Praetorian
True Creation
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Posted - 2010.08.19 16:36:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Cearain
Blows it out of his kazoo
Dscan needs to be fixed anyway. Local intel requires no effort.
Are you still confused?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.19 16:36:00 -
[278]
Edited by: Akita T on 19/08/2010 16:42:08
Originally by: Cearain I thought your original post included high and low sec not just 0.0. Also perhaps you didnÆt read the part where in 2008 he says of this ôLocal: I'm hoping we'll have something done to local in 0.0 in q1 next year.ö Plans have changed Akita.
Yes, all of it would be best, but 0.0 alone is decent enough for a start. Also, yes, plans have changed, it has been delayed with NO due date. This is about why that's not a good thing.
Quote: IÆm not sure what you mean by csm.
See O.P.
Originally by: Super Whopper If local got removed everyone would switch to one of the many programs that report local count.
Not REMOVED. Put in "delayed mode" (for starters, anyway). You do get to keep the damn number-of-pilots-in-system count, so you don't need any extra programs, it should be displayed right there still. Just so you don't automatically know WHO came into the system.
I would go even further and not just display total numbers of online pilots (without identification of who it is), BUT ALSO total number of people that are logged off but in the system. However, ideally, you'd want pilots that are cloaked to show up as logged off instead of online.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.08.19 16:42:00 -
[279]
Ok I'll bite,
A good part of this game is that its a social game. Really people don't talk enough in local for my taste .. but at least when you see peoples names in system you feel like you're hanging out wiht them. If you see their name each night you start saying hi.
You might share a bit of info, ask them for help with some rats if mining..etc.. thats for allies
As for enemies, that too is more interesting as you get to Know your enemy . Local allows you to click on their chracter.. read their bio ,, see their employment history, click on their corp.. maybe look at their corp page..
You start to get a feel for different groups of people. Rivalries start to arrise (oh no! its the Mustard Franfurter Squad invading again ! RUN to sation!) ....
Its the story of the people involved thats a good part of the fun... that makes mmos diffeent thanonline consule fps games. The less you see information about the names of other people, the slower that you'll get any sense of knowing who they are.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.08.19 16:44:00 -
[280]
For the Nth time, this is not about removing the ability to get that data... just about the fact getting that data should "COST" something, be it time, gear, or a bit of both.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.08.19 16:59:00 -
[281]
As for the AFK cloaking, that really shouldn't be part of the consideration about the need for local change.
The bad parts about AFK cloaking could easily be removed by implimenting some cloak timer...even if it were 15 minutes people would need to check back in that often else find their ship scanned down and blown up while they were walking their dog or off to another class. That is another argument but really the delayed mode in local doesn't even solve it at all anyway ... it just removes the pych out of knowing that an enemy is logged on in system and replaces it with the possiblity that unknown people are logged on in system.
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.08.19 17:02:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Akita T For the Nth time, this is not about removing the ability to get that data... just about the fact getting that data should "COST" something, be it time, gear, or a bit of both.
No it shouldn't. As has been explained in this thread, the game is better when that info is free. -Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.08.19 17:09:00 -
[283]
Edited by: Diomedes Calypso on 19/08/2010 17:12:17
Originally by: Akita T For the Nth time, this is not about removing the ability to get that data... just about the fact getting that data should "COST" something, be it time, gear, or a bit of both.
My point was the casual nature of seeing the people in system by being able to click on their names and being able to find out about them.... all people set neutral, blue and red. Running scanners all the time to see friendlies names wouldn't be great either. And the harder it is to find by constant scanning and more difficult work in clicking to find out about people the less you'll get to be aquainted with other players. I kid people about their names all the time. Its fun to see people named after ****-stars and make some crack about them.
If i'm chasing through a system, I'm not going to have time to scan down all the ships,
and are you saying if I see a ship type on scanner I'm suddenly going to get the new ability to see who's piloting it and their pilot info ?
That would be a major change sort of in the opposite direction, making it too easy for defenders to scan down a non cloaking enemy ship in a populated alliance ratting system.
Peosonaly the darkness of the wormhole's makes them less appealing but hey, to each their own.
But I'm not 100% with the status quo.. I could see having a 30 second delay between entry into system and having your name discolsed. A bit more time to make a tackle.. a bit more "cry wolf" from friendlies popping into system without their names appearing.
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.08.19 17:13:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 19/08/2010 16:42:08
Originally by: Cearain
Quote: IÆm not sure what you mean by csm.
See O.P.
Thanks for the link. The name "wild 0.0" was deceiving. That only applies to null sec and then it can be overcome by a module. I don't fight in null sec because I'm nto intereted in blobs. People in null sec may want to boost "bait and blob" tactics. But so far I have not seen anything suggesting they will screw up high and low sec with this crap. -Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Analissa Fiora
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Posted - 2010.08.19 20:26:00 -
[285]
I say do it. Remove local. Sure, the carebears will move back to high-sec but it'll be fun while we kill them off . It's about time bears were run out of null and low-sec.
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.19 21:09:00 -
[286]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 19/08/2010 21:10:16
Originally by: Akita T A huge part of your arguments seem to rely on one main thing : the ASSUMPTION that just because local might be placed in delayed mode, there will be absolutely no way in hell the current level of intel that local provides could ever be achieved again. THAT IS AN INCORRECT ASSUMPTION. Nobody is saying that the level of intel available is too high, just the fact it comes without the need for any serious form of player effort or any matTriel commitment is what's actually wrong.
And I am trying to make you realize that more effort will mean less players in null-sec. Principles like "0.0 should be like this" or "Not enough effort to get it" will not be accepted by everyone only because it sound logical. This, because it is a game, not a job.
A huge part of your arguments seem to rely on one main thing : that CCP stated that it will be happening. And you are absolutely right. But let's go back to the day that it was stated :
½ We want to put local in 0.0 as a delayed mode channel so only people who talk in the channel are shown. We are also looking at other alternatives but if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least. + - CCP Zulu
Small zoom :
if we find nothing better this will be put in testing at least
in testing at least
testing
Sound like CCP is not sure that it will be a good move. "Testing" on TQ is not really one of their habits. They seem to be more rational than you Akita.
Indeed, you hope that dscan will be adapted before delayed local is applied. That would be a good point. But all compromises will have some counterparts. It can be server-side AND/OR ingame. For exemple, the idea of a deployable object means that in a fleet fight, no one will get fastly an idea of the opponent power, or maybe only few minutes. I doubt that it means they will both try to fight, as loss means something in EVE. A suicidal attitude is not really rewarding... This will only make blobs worse to be sure to win in all situations.
At last, if you seriously think that people will play your game as you wish, so you are the most optimistic player I have ever seen. Today, EVE is a big napfest and a majority of players stay in Empire... For obvious reasons. Still, some players like you want make things worse. And this, mostly because you don't want think about all consequences of this move and about the ones of the proposed counterparts.
So, let's test it. I am already prepared to laught from the tears of the predators, if the leak of targets will happen as expected. _______ With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have. - John Smedley, CEO of Sony Online Entertainment |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.19 21:13:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Analissa Fiora I say do it. Remove local. Sure, the carebears will move back to high-sec but it'll be fun while we kill them off . It's about time bears were run out of null and low-sec.
Pretty sure local is used for finding targets much more than it is for avoiding them, so you might be in for a surprise when you see who that effects more.
My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Analissa Fiora
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Posted - 2010.08.19 21:26:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Analissa Fiora I say do it. Remove local. Sure, the carebears will move back to high-sec but it'll be fun while we kill them off . It's about time bears were run out of null and low-sec.
Pretty sure local is used for finding targets much more than it is for avoiding them, so you might be in for a surprise when you see who that effects more.
Except that when we roam they dock/cloak up as soon as we appear in local. So what difference does it make if we see them? If local is gone then we have a better chance at catching belt ratters and miners.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.08.20 13:58:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Akita T
You do get to keep the damn number-of-pilots-in-system count, so you don't need any extra programs, it should be displayed right there still. Just so you don't automatically know WHO came into the system.
I'll have to disagree with this. The "number of pilots in system" number should be the number that is used in the star map, and should have the same delay (and be displayed somewhere in the new d-scanner interface).
An instant in-system count would be almost as bad as the current instant local. ...
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.08.20 14:06:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Cearain
Originally by: Akita T For the Nth time, this is not about removing the ability to get that data... just about the fact getting that data should "COST" something, be it time, gear, or a bit of both.
No it shouldn't. As has been explained in this thread, the game is better when that info is free.
The only conclusive explanation to come out of this thread is that instant local is great for macros (and exploiters). Is this what you're referring to? ...
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.08.20 14:18:00 -
[291]
yaaal already had a bunch of those already.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2010.08.20 14:35:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Analissa Fiora I say do it. Remove local. Sure, the carebears will move back to high-sec but it'll be fun while we kill them off . It's about time bears were run out of null and low-sec.
You obviously understand nothing about this game if you think its a good idea that the carebears that are in 0.0 and low sec all move back to empire. Eve would collapse.
1) All the t2 materials are found in low/null 2) carebears build caps in low/null 3) Hi sec belts would be stripped dry in days. 4) there are minerals that are only obtainable in low/null unless you count junk loot which is not nearly enough to sustain the current production rate.
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Yankunytjatjara
Amarr Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.08.20 15:33:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Akita T P.P.S. Yankunytjatjara sort of had the right idea on how the scanner could be changed to compensate - basically, bring back the ancient "Elite-looking" radar of early EVE clients, and in it, constantly display (visually) ALL things that would show up on a d-scan that is set on max-range and 360 degrees.
Thanks. I posted it as proposal: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1371694&page=1, can I haz support?
And don't forget the tactical overview option for solo/small gangs: Ship Velocity Vectors |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.08.20 17:04:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
Originally by: Akita T P.P.S. Yankunytjatjara sort of had the right idea on how the scanner could be changed to compensate - basically, bring back the ancient "Elite-looking" radar of early EVE clients, and in it, constantly display (visually) ALL things that would show up on a d-scan that is set on max-range and 360 degrees.
Thanks. I posted it as proposal: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1371694&page=1, can I haz support?
I would love this. It would also really add to the atmosphere of the game I reckon. I mean what the hell, I'd probably lose more ships but who cares...
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.08.20 17:12:00 -
[295]
Edited by: Cearain on 20/08/2010 17:12:57
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Cearain
Originally by: Akita T For the Nth time, this is not about removing the ability to get that data... just about the fact getting that data should "COST" something, be it time, gear, or a bit of both.
No it shouldn't. As has been explained in this thread, the game is better when that info is free.
The only conclusive explanation to come out of this thread is that instant local is great for macros (and exploiters). Is this what you're referring to?
No my concern is that every time you try to fight solo or in a small gang and then a blob jumps into local you will not see that until itÆs too late. You see my eve experience does not entirely consist of looking to gank people who are mining or in pve ships. Now if that is your main interest in eve then yeah delayed local is wonderful. But for those of us who play eve looking for good fights this change would suck. Just to be clear:
Do you like to spend all your time baiting and blobbing people in eve? If yes delayed local would be wonderful! Do you like to spend your time fighting ships that have nothing but mining lasers? If yes then delayed local would be wonderful! Do you like to get good quality pvp fights? If yes then delayed local is a horrible idea. Do you like to see if you are wasting your time looking for war targets in a system quickly without having to fit a probe launcher or warp around like an idiot? If yes then delayed local is a horrible idea.
Macros will have a harder time? IÆm not so sure about that. The only thing delayed local will do is make eve even less enjoyable unless you are in some big alliance that can post scouts at every gate. Its not that no one will be able to get these minerals in low or null sec. Its just that it will take more organized ventures to do that. But if you do have that organization then you will make *more* isk. Supply and demand. Now I have not heard anything to suggest that the macros and ôexploitersö are so much less organized than your typical player. Until we know that then we can not determine if this will be a boon or a bust to macros or exploiters.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.08.20 17:52:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Cearain No my concern is that every time you try to fight solo or in a small gang and then a blob jumps into local you will not see that until itÆs too late.
You are right, you will not get an instant notification that you should run wherever you are in the system. Your d-scanner will show the æblobÆ if it is within its range, which should give you enough time to get out.
Originally by: Cearain Do you like to see if you are wasting your time looking for war targets in a system quickly without having to fit a probe launcher or warp around like an idiot? If yes then delayed local is a horrible idea.
You search may have to become a little more strategic, instead of jumping around the map like an idiot. YouÆd have to use data from places like dotlan and the star map to see trends in traffic and farming systems. Track political events to become aware of war zones. Etc.
Conversely youÆll always have a blob hunting for you whenever you enter any alliance territory (that means 99% of 0.0) because youÆve been spotted by anyone who happened to be in the system you went through.
...
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.08.20 19:07:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Razin Edited by: Razin on 20/08/2010 17:58:58
Originally by: Cearain No my concern is that every time you try to fight solo or in a small gang and then a blob jumps into local you will not see that until itÆs too late.
You are right, you will not get an instant notification that you should run wherever you are in the system. Your d-scanner will show the æblobÆ if it is within its range, which should give you enough time to get out.
edit: Showing you the 'jump-in signatures' before the ships uncloak (sort of like seeing the local fill in) may very well be a function of the new d-scanner provided you are on the same grid as the gate, for example.
Originally by: Cearain Do you like to see if you are wasting your time looking for war targets in a system quickly without having to fit a probe launcher or warp around like an idiot? If yes then delayed local is a horrible idea.
You search may have to become a little more strategic, instead of jumping around the map like an idiot. YouÆd have to use data from places like dotlan and the star map to see trends in traffic and farming systems. Track political events to become aware of war zones. Etc.
Conversely youÆll always have a blob hunting for you whenever you enter any alliance territory (that means 99% of 0.0) because youÆve been spotted by anyone who happened to be in the system you went through.
At least we can to some extent agree on what will happen even if we donÆt agree on whether itÆs good or bad. I see having to hit my dscan all the time during a pvp engagement when I am already trying to monitor my overloaded mods cap and range as a big negative.
If the new dscan would show what local will show anyway û why not just have local show it? Why force us to neurotically click a button?
I donÆt always run away every time I see a ship on dscan because I donÆt know if it is a war target. Local tells me this. Again if the dscan is going to give the same information as local then why not just have local do it automatically. How does being forced to spam a button improve gameplay?
If I am involved in a pvp fight it is currently hard enough to try to burn away after seeing local spike with other wartargets. Giving people even less time will make it almost impossible and surely kill off what is left of solo and small gang pvp.
As far as having to use out of game tools to find war targets like dotlan û well that is moving in the wrong direction for me. I think it takes long enough to find a decent target. I am against any change that makes finding a good fight in eve more of a chore than it already is. I am very much in favor of mechanics that make good fights easier to find.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.08.20 19:38:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Cearain ...
Just a couple of points, if I may.
One, no one likes to endlessly push buttons. I believe that most who are arguing for delayed local assume that one of the features of the new d-scanner will be the 'auto mode'. This is explicitly stated several times in this thread.
Two, this new d-scanner is assumed to will have taken over all of the intel gathering functionality of current local, EXCEPT for its infinite range and general effortlessness. What this may mean is that different types of information provided by the new d-scanner may be provided at some limited ranges.
How CCP would implement any of this is anyone's guess.
Hope this clears up at leas some misunderstandings. ...
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Nisanu
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Posted - 2010.08.20 20:25:00 -
[299]
Edited by: Nisanu on 20/08/2010 20:25:31
I personally hate the idea of giving even greater power to alliances, but that is subjective. I'm afraid it would make 0.0 a true wasteland without any activity that is unsanctioned by the dominant alliances.
Still, one can debate the desirability of local.
What I don't understand is how people can argue with the fact that it will benefit (large) alliances. Surely it's obvious that removing free (democratic) info will benefit those with resources and scouts, and will make it even more difficult to solo or small gang roam 0.0.
Knowing who is in the system is much more valuable to a solo pilot than to a large alliance that has safety in numbers. Just send some cloaked scouts into systems, and the moment they spot a solo ratter, they can call in reinforcements. It would make it a suicide mission for any solo or small corp player to do anything in nullsec. How can people doubt this?
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.08.21 02:59:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Cearain ...
Just a couple of points, if I may.
One, no one likes to endlessly push buttons. I believe that most who are arguing for delayed local assume that one of the features of the new d-scanner will be the 'auto mode'. This is explicitly stated several times in this thread.
Two, this new d-scanner is assumed to will have taken over all of the intel gathering functionality of current local, EXCEPT for its infinite range and general effortlessness......
IÆm not sure everyone posting in this long thread are on board for this ill-defined, new, and as yet never even mentioned by anyone in ccp, scanner. But ok. This new d-scanner won't require so much as the push of a button yet it will still somehow require more effort than looking at local.
Why are we splitting hairs? Just keep local as it is. DonÆt make changes just for change sake.
The fact that it has less range is not good IMO. It means blobs get a boost.
Plus I agree with NisanuÆs views on this. Being forced to have scouts at every gate will be a kick in the pants for all the more casual eve players.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
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