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Marcus Vorenius
Caldari Citadel Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.07.30 05:41:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Krans Hopeson I think it might be a good idea for the CSM to have a fairly in-depth discussion about whether the current way that the CSM works between major Iceland summits is practical going forward, particularly in the light of the results of the June meeting.
Adding up to 9 new issues to the backlog every couple of weeks doesn't seem to me to be sustainable. The issues seem to vary wildly in scale (from trivial fixes to major expansions), and timeliness (from urgent action required to wishlist).
It seems to me that the CSM should seriously consider putting less effort into sending new issues CCP's way, and more into championing older but very critical issues. To some extent, I think the CSM are already doing this -- I was pleased to note in particular the amount of time they spent pushing for FW and lowsec to be fixed in this last round of meetings with CCP -- but I think that the split between creating new issues and maintaining old ones is still not quite balanced.
CCP have promised to give the CSM more insight into the status of the backlog, and I look forward to hearing about how you intend to make the most of it.
well said - I agree.
The "backlog" can either be the Product Backlog or the more detailed Sprint Backlog. You'll not get anything into the Sprint Backlog if there is no master entry in the Product Backlog, so the first thing that needs to be done is getting "UI Changes" into the Product Backlog. However, as suggested by Krans, there are more important issues to push for IMHO. _____ Blog: Scrum & PRINCE2 - burning the "backlog" |
Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.07.30 06:53:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Marlenus Stuff that says "I want what I want and I want it now".
2 bigger legacy content elephants are Rockets and AFs. They have been around longer then FW. They effect more ships and players then FW and low sec. Hell, the damn font is more of a problem then FW or low sec to be frank. The font affects everyone, ships that can use rockets are nurfing themselves. I love the Ishkur but feel like a moron flying one since I can do the same job but better and cheaper and be more likely to survive in a Vexor. Go AF, GO!
No one said that PI is legacy content. It is new content. I don't consider it to be part of that 20% that CCP is talking about. If it was they would not be dealing with any other topic at all.
There is progress. Lets see the Low Sec luv. BS rats in belts. There will be more ratters. L5 missions no longer spawning in high sec. Now everyone will move to do them in low sec.... oh... wait... No one cares abotu the rats in the belts and people who did L5 missions in high sec just stopped doing them.
Low sec is a trashy wasteland. As I stated in my above post. You can not buff enough to make PvEers go there until you nurf the hell out of pirates to the point where they cry a new ocean over it. No one wants to be the sheep to be fleeced.
Going back to the beginning, Font, AF, Rockets. All more important then low sec. They affect everyone. Low sec helps a very small group of people, the smalls in eve sec status wise. FW is a subset of low sec. They would be wasting development cycles to work on Low sec and FW. CCP has bigger fish to fry. Stop being a small fish.
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Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2010.07.30 14:29:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Mynxee Ah, I guess I wasn't being clear...the progress has come more recently, after the Minutes furor. Whether coincidentally, due to continued CSM pressure, or due to responses to the Minutes, our dialog with devs has increased on a few different topics and CCP has also indicated that there are some CSM issues that have gotten love.
Ah, excellent, thanks for the clarification, and (as always) for your efforts. Of course I'm still baffled why CCP would leave the "CSM issues getting no love" threads out there like turds steaming in a punchbowl if they had progress they could be reporting, but that's CCP for ya I guess. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2010.07.30 15:07:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Marlenus on 30/07/2010 15:07:26
Originally by: Ashina Sito
Originally by: Marlenus Stuff that says "I want what I want and I want it now".
You fail at reading comprehension and/or summary, so no point in a response to you. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.07.30 17:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Marlenus Of course I'm still baffled why CCP would leave the "CSM issues getting no love" threads out there like turds steaming in a punchbowl if they had progress they could be reporting, but that's CCP for ya I guess.
If they removed them they still would not go away, you have Eve-Search.com. If they were removed then players would raise hell about censorship. Ether way it is a lose lose for CCP. Better to let it lie.
Originally by: Marlenus Edited by: Marlenus on 30/07/2010 15:07:26
Originally by: Ashina Sito
Originally by: Marlenus Stuff that says "I want what I want and I want it now".
You fail at reading comprehension and/or summary, so no point in a response to you.
\0/ Ignoring someone with a perspective that is counter to yours, you win!
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Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2010.07.30 19:10:00 -
[36]
Ignoring someone who cannot comprehend my perspective, you bet I win! ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Andrew Riviera
Caldari Hell's Horsemen -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:55:00 -
[37]
So...it's August...
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Hairy Bum
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Posted - 2010.08.02 04:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Marlenus Ignoring someone who cannot comprehend my perspective, you bet I win!
But people must first see your perspective. So far all we have from your posts is the mental picture of you sticking crayons up your nose and asking if you resemble a popcicle.
If you wish to be relevant to a discussion, then post something relevent. Otherwise, GTFO.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.08.02 06:29:00 -
[39]
Quote:
-- (Mazz) Create Lottery Subforum in EVE Marketplace wiki
May I suggest completely re-ordering the entire Marketplace section, rather than patching it up. It's a complete mess atm wading through everything when you're looking for a particular thing.
* create a "Player Services" section for those running services * relabel "Sell Orders" into something a little more intuitive like "Wanted To Sell" ... and the same WTB for that matter. * remove Price Check - there's almost zero reply/activity in there * possibly create a general "Market Bazaar" to bucket anything that don't fit into the categories. The lotteries can go into this.
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.08.02 21:42:00 -
[40]
Ashina Sito
The weapons and ships of eve are already pretty well balanced. The fact that we only have one sub group of about what ?30? that people agree needs a boost demonstrates this. Same with AFs as a subclass of ships. When we include all the different types of ship classes and sub classes there are about what ?25? balanced classes and sub classes.
Now think about Eve as a whole. How many different scenarios can you pvp? You can pvp for the following reasons:
1)for sov 2)just for fun û no real background necessary 3)because youÆre a merc or a griefer 4)pirating or taking poses in whs for profit 5)FW occupancy 6)Some other reason
The first 4 reasons to pvp will often lead to the same strategy to win: ôLets form a big fleet and blob anything that gets in our way!ö Now there are exceptions. But in general I see this as the biggest reason of how eve can get stale. This strategy is a good strategy to win the first 4 scenarios.
FW offers a war scenario where it could be a better strategy to actually break up your blob and go out in multiple smaller gangs to plex for occupancy. But the current occupancy plexing mechanic is garbage so no one does it. Hence eve pvp always resorts to the same old formula for success. Blob for the win.
Now IÆm not complaining too much. The actual battles (when you actually get something close to even û which is IMO too rare) are tactically complex, and allot of fun. Also there is an art to forming a good gang no doubt. Both aspects are great in eve. But you rarely have a situation where you say lets break up our large gang into many smaller gangs because we have multiple important places to be at the same time. FW and or some other low sec development could facilitate that. This I think would be a real breakthrough for eve.
In other words its much more important to have even a single new pvp dynamic, than it is to add a 31th competitive weapon system or a 26th new subclass of ship.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
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Sujanra Acoma
Minmatar Shadow Kitty Legion
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Posted - 2010.08.03 19:59:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Originally by: Mynxee CSM5 Meeting 005 will take place Sunday 25 July 2010 at 16:30 EVE time. All CSM5 Delegates and Alternates are invited to attend.
Issue submission deadline is 23 July 2010 at 18:00. To submit an issue, CSM Delegates must reply to this thread listing the issue name and appropriate links to Assembly Hall thread and related CSM wiki. Discussion will be limited to a max of 9 issues; delegates may list multiple issues for consideration. Listed issues will be addressed in rotating order, 1 per delegate, until the max is reached.
Note to Community: We are piloting a 2nd Saturday/4th Sunday meeting schedule through July.
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Agenda
A. Introduction -- Roll Call -- Reminders
B. Issues
C. Other Business
After all it only garners a max 12.6% of interest from the player base.
I just wanna point out that this isn't much worse than the typical turnout for local elections in my county.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.04 01:41:00 -
[42]
The discussion about turnout is a rabbit trail. The bandwagon fallacy doesn't determine validity of anything, let alone the impact of elected officials. If anything, those who don't vote aren't effecting the nature of the CSM. They're not displaying anything about the CSM itself, only people's reaction to it.
If 5 people vote for the CEO of an organization, for example, that doesn't make his decisions impotent. It merely removes their choice of selecting a representative for their vision for the firm.
The CSM is the only player-group that is guaranteed to have the ear of the developers and is able to craft cohesive and coherent proposals that reflect the community's needs and desires. If a large percentage of people refuse to make sure that candidates who reflect their views are on the CSM, then they've only got themselves to blame if their views aren't represented ont eh CSM. As it is, this CSM has, at the very least, focused attention on CCP's bottlenecking and failure in vision and has enabled media attention to be focused on CCp... which may be the only thing that can jolt them out of their cocoon at this point.
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Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Andrew Riviera
Caldari Hell's Horsemen -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.08.04 04:57:00 -
[43]
Minutes if anyone's interested, since apparently linking them is too hard for the secretary.
Oops, wait, I voted for the secretary. Much love!
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Hairy Bum
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Posted - 2010.08.04 05:51:00 -
[44]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero The discussion about turnout is a rabbit trail. The bandwagon fallacy doesn't determine validity of anything, let alone the impact of elected officials. If anything, those who don't vote aren't effecting the nature of the CSM. They're not displaying anything about the CSM itself, only people's reaction to it.
If 5 people vote for the CEO of an organization, for example, that doesn't make his decisions impotent. It merely removes their choice of selecting a representative for their vision for the firm.
The CSM is the only player-group that is guaranteed to have the ear of the developers and is able to craft cohesive and coherent proposals that reflect the community's needs and desires. If a large percentage of people refuse to make sure that candidates who reflect their views are on the CSM, then they've only got themselves to blame if their views aren't represented ont eh CSM. As it is, this CSM has, at the very least, focused attention on CCP's bottlenecking and failure in vision and has enabled media attention to be focused on CCp... which may be the only thing that can jolt them out of their cocoon at this point.
So if the player base (who are supposed to be represented by this group) think that the CSM is joke and act towards it accordingly (by ignoring its existence), and CCP don't listen to a thing that the CSM propose beyond offering an acknowledging nod of the head and some free booze, this all somehow in your tiny brain makes it all legitimate and everything is right in the world
And as to media attention ... one article written in Massively does not a media storm make . Have a browse through all of the other MMO based media and you will hear barely a whisper on anything related to this (beyond the standard *****ing in the forums). So if this is to be a gauge of the CSM's abilities, we better hope that someone doesn't drop a wet paper bag on their collective heads. They'd suffocate before it could be removed.
Still if it wasn't for the CSM and fanbois like yourself, we'd have nothing to laugh at on a daily basis.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.04 06:18:00 -
[45]
Edited by: FinnAgain Zero on 04/08/2010 06:18:40
Originally by: Andrew Riviera Minutes if anyone's interested
A summarized version would be nice, but some of the stuff that's in there is intersting and worth checking the raw text. For instance:
Quote: [ 16:47:34 ] Vuk Lau > by mistake of several CCP employees I found out what are their chars (you can extract this from minutes if u want) [ 16:47:36 ] Vuk Lau > no I am not done [ 16:47:44 ] Vuk Lau > and I checked them all [ 16:47:49 ] Mynxee > ok just checking, as others are queued up. [ 16:47:50 ] Vuk Lau > they are all empire carebears [ 16:47:52 ] Vuk Lau > all
The CSM has their work cut out for them (sov structure hitpoints, really?). Hopefully they can continue to exert pressure, both directly and indirectly. Before the flurry of media attention (unfortunately focused on fleet lag and not so much CCP's disdain for polishing all of their features) we had absolutely no traction. Hell, before the summit and Zulu's blog post, we didn't even know what was going on with CCP. The CSM has at least clarified it, and the situation called down enough media attention that, at the very least, CCP realizes that there's a problem with the 'brand' they have set up.
It's a solid start. ------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
TeaDaze
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Posted - 2010.08.04 10:58:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Andrew Riviera Minutes if anyone's interested, since apparently linking them is too hard for the secretary.
Oops, wait, I voted for the secretary. Much love!
I was hoping to have the summary versions ready before linking all the minutes, but in future I will link the raw logs in the interim.
There is quite a bit of discussion going on between CCP and CSM right now, which coupled with the company I work for being taken over has reduced the amount of Eve/CSM time I have available. Trebor (as vice-secretary) offered to do the summary version of the minutes (he did meeting 3 as well) which once I have will be published and linked etc.
For the moment the raw logs and voting summaries are available on the CSM Database which (as designed) is very quick and easy for me to update straight after the meetings. PDF and wiki summaries will be linked from there and this thread once available.
Once the work takeover is completed I will be unemployed for a while and thus will have plenty of time for CSM work
TeaDaze.net Blog | CSM Database |
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