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The Feuror
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 02:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
im sure theres more then myself wondering the same question......
what makes more isk/hour?
running sites in C5 WH's with tengu's OR running incursions in highsec
i havent done either but im realy looking to start raking in huge amounts of isk and so far these are the only ways to do it without investing large amounts of capital into BPO's
so lets hear what the pros think what makes more isk/hour giving the fact that there is down time between incursions and there arent really any running sites in WH's i would think C5's are the way to go but i may be wrong which is why im asking....... |
Udan Funaila
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 02:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have in the past (once) made 830 million in just over an hour running radar and mag sites in C5 wormholes. Got very, very lucky with loot / sites.
The problem is that it can be very, very inconsistant. |
The Feuror
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 02:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
whats the average..... 50-100m/hour / 100-200m/hour
i basically just have a tengu this pilot was my capital builder for a while just used him for the extra slots for capital componant building, but if the isk is good enough i may think about selling my main.... 47m sp sub cap pilot easy 15b sale with the skills he has to buy one that can work better in a WH/incursion |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2011.09.23 02:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Feuror wrote:whats the average..... 50-100m/hour / 100-200m/hour
i basically just have a tengu this pilot was my capital builder for a while just used him for the extra slots for capital componant building, but if the isk is good enough i may think about selling my main.... 47m sp sub cap pilot easy 15b sale with the skills he has to buy one that can work better in a WH/incursion
Can't give you a comparison of the two since I have little experience with both. But, a C3 can net you 100-150mil/hr in a good tengu fleet that works well and efficiently together where each member has good missile skills. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Udan Funaila
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 03:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Feuror wrote:whats the average..... 50-100m/hour / 100-200m/hour
Its hard to pin down an average, but most of the time the average is about 3-400 million, sometimes up to 500 millon isk. Combat sites suck isk wise, unless you're doing cap escalations. I rarely do those so I'm not too sure off the top of my head.
Sometimes you get lucky and you have an empty chain of WHs with lots of sites worth doing, sometimes you get nothing but Ladar and Gravs.
There are down sides and advantages to doing both, just depends on what you would prefer. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2011.09.23 03:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
C5. But you can't solo it in a tengu... |
Gajana
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 08:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
incursions = 50-60mil / h per char c3,c4,c5 etc 50-100mil / h per char
wh - slightly higher inconsistency (sites running out, rolling holes, hot days without farming when enemy is in the hole etc), significantly higher risk, higher initial investment (pos or/and corp), logistics wh + you can scale up your income having multiple chars which is not possible most of the time when running incursions
setup time is similar in incursions and wh (about 1-2h finding fleet in incursions, scanning / rolling in wh)
all in all if you want just quick income without much hassle do incursions, hardcore guys are making 10b+ a month |
Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
44
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Posted - 2011.09.23 11:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gajana wrote:incursions = 50-60mil / h per char c3,c4,c5 etc 50-100mil / h per char
You're bad at Eve. Get out.
Highsec incursions will net you 90-120mil per hour as a realistic figure.
A C5 / C6 fleet will touch 500mil per hour / per character under cap escalations. There is more fluctuation, however.
Without caps a good sweetspot is C4s, where RR Tengu's will do ~250mil per hr/character
You have to consider what an "hour" is to you, however.
Got 5 hours and want the max ISK possible? You're probably best off in a highsec incursion, due to consistency and setup time.
Found some site in an empty hole inbetween PVP roams and want to run them? You pretty much just set about them until you find someone to shoot.
It's a matter of perspective. |
Mercurye
Nubian Sundance
1
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Posted - 2011.09.23 11:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lady Go Diveher wrote:Gajana wrote:incursions = 50-60mil / h per char c3,c4,c5 etc 50-100mil / h per char You're bad at Eve. Get out. .. It's a matter of perspective.
Just nuancing your post a little while reading |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
67
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Posted - 2011.09.23 11:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lady Go Diveher wrote:Gajana wrote:incursions = 50-60mil / h per char c3,c4,c5 etc 50-100mil / h per char Highsec incursions will net you 90-120mil per hour as a realistic figure.
If this is true, then Incursions need a nerf because that's just stupid steady isk for high sec.
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TriadSte
Thr33lance Incorp
2
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Posted - 2011.09.23 11:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
I personally have been making 100million p/h running vanguards. There is NOTHING as consistent as incursions for making Isk.
Do they need nerfing?
The answer is no, simply because there is alot of risk involved just as there is in a wormhole space. If a Basi pilot disconnects then the entire fleet can be popped very easily resulting in anything upto 50 billion isk being lost maybe more depending on fleet composition and modules installed.
Competeing in certain sites calls for killing tamas and spawning more Sansha in the hope of the DPS overwhelming the opposing fleets Logis and getting that fleet popped.
I have lived in a C3 for a long time but a C5-6 can't get alot of traffic really and even if they did your running with capitals with triage so that fleet is pretty much safe, Battleships arn't gonna warp in and try for the gank are they? lol...
Leave incursions alone, working as intended. |
Maikhanh
Deep Space Expedition.
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 12:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:I personally have been making 100million p/h running vanguards. There is NOTHING as consistent as incursions for making Isk.
Do they need nerfing?
The answer is no, simply because there is alot of risk involved just as there is in a wormhole space. If a Basi pilot disconnects then the entire fleet can be popped very easily resulting in anything upto 50 billion isk being lost maybe more depending on fleet composition and modules installed.
Competeing in certain sites calls for killing tamas and spawning more Sansha in the hope of the DPS overwhelming the opposing fleets Logis and getting that fleet popped.
I have lived in a C3 for a long time but a C5-6 can't get alot of traffic really and even if they did your running with capitals with triage so that fleet is pretty much safe, Battleships arn't gonna warp in and try for the gank are they? lol...
Leave incursions alone, working as intended. incursion needs a nerf for sure. with 3 basi in a fleet, no way in hell your fleet will pop.
and probably you havent seen any C5 cap km, 2 bhaal and you're dead for sure, or not even that, a few T3s with one logis would be enough taking down any cap running sites in C5, C6.
your C3 with your pos is just too safe. |
TriadSte
Thr33lance Incorp
2
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Posted - 2011.09.23 12:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
If anything primaries you in a C5-6 without triage logi support your as good as dead.
Those bhaals would just go poppety pop pop.
Those Logis will get primed too going poppety pop pop.
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Maikhanh
Deep Space Expedition.
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 12:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=10654632 C6 carrier kill, happy farming |
n00n3r
Malicious Destruction
3
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Posted - 2011.09.23 12:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maikhanh wrote:TriadSte wrote:I personally have been making 100million p/h running vanguards. There is NOTHING as consistent as incursions for making Isk.
Do they need nerfing?
The answer is no, simply because there is alot of risk involved just as there is in a wormhole space. If a Basi pilot disconnects then the entire fleet can be popped very easily resulting in anything upto 50 billion isk being lost maybe more depending on fleet composition and modules installed.
Competeing in certain sites calls for killing tamas and spawning more Sansha in the hope of the DPS overwhelming the opposing fleets Logis and getting that fleet popped.
I have lived in a C3 for a long time but a C5-6 can't get alot of traffic really and even if they did your running with capitals with triage so that fleet is pretty much safe, Battleships arn't gonna warp in and try for the gank are they? lol...
Leave incursions alone, working as intended. incursion needs a nerf for sure. with 3 basi in a fleet, no way in hell your fleet will pop. and probably you havent seen any C5 cap km, 2 bhaal and you're dead for sure, or not even that, a few T3s with one logis would be enough taking down any cap running sites in C5, C6. your C3 with your pos is just too safe.
Sure, there is more safety in a fleet with 3 logis. However, anytime you take a DPS ship out of the equation you're looking at the possibility of not getting paid for the sites you do because that other fleet, who is only flying twin logi, just out damaged you in the site and got paid instead. So it's a trade off.
As a matter of fact, losing sites to a superior fleet is becoming more common place now that more people are getting into the high dps ships. And sadly, a Tengu isn't considered high dps. Interested in Incursions? Check out our recruitment thread!-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12104&find=unread |
TriadSte
Thr33lance Incorp
2
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Posted - 2011.09.23 12:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
LOL well that deserved to die...
2 guardians Apoc Scorp vigilant Huginn
Rofl thats 1 serious fail fleet for a C6 |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
67
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Posted - 2011.09.23 13:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:I personally have been making 100million p/h running vanguards. There is NOTHING as consistent as incursions for making Isk.
Do they need nerfing?
The answer is no, simply because there is alot of risk involved just as there is in a wormhole space. If a Basi pilot disconnects then the entire fleet can be popped very easily resulting in anything upto 50 billion isk being lost maybe more depending on fleet composition and modules installed.
Competeing in certain sites calls for killing tamas and spawning more Sansha in the hope of the DPS overwhelming the opposing fleets Logis and getting that fleet popped.
I have lived in a C3 for a long time but a C5-6 can't get alot of traffic really and even if they did your running with capitals with triage so that fleet is pretty much safe, Battleships arn't gonna warp in and try for the gank are they? lol...
Leave incursions alone, working as intended.
There is no "risk" in PvE when you have a brain. Risk vs. reward is concerning the risk of other players, not NPCs.
If you have half a brain and can put together a decent fleet and know what you're doing, you shouldn't lost a damn thing to NPCs in PvE. The risk comes from players. There is none in high sec. |
Mart Allini
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
6
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Posted - 2011.09.23 13:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
I really wish all c5/c6 running fleets thought carriers made them 100% safe while running sites. So much easier to get the drop on people when they think they are safe and don't pay attention. |
Weasel Juice
BS And UNICORNS Inc
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 13:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote: [...] There is no "risk" in PvE when you have a brain. Risk vs. reward is concerning the risk of other players, not NPCs.
If you have half a brain and can put together a decent fleet and know what you're doing, you shouldn't lost a damn thing to NPCs in PvE. The risk comes from players. There is none in high sec.
People flying 1-3 billion ships on the average. Logi's are about 300-400mil. That gives you 1bn in logis, and a fair 10-20 bn in DPS in solid fleets.
Now there is suicide gankers, ECM Burst griefers, griefing Logi, griefing FCs, bad FCs, bad Logis, failfit Logis, disconnecs and idiots in OTAs - this is a very small list - incursions are risky. Don't kid yourself.
The fact that incursions require very careful planning and execution - and any derivation means people die proves its the content that is risky. |
TriadSte
Thr33lance Incorp
3
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Posted - 2011.09.23 14:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ah finally someone with brain and further more understanding! |
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Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery Situation: Normal
21
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Posted - 2011.09.23 14:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Weasel Juice wrote:Emperor Salazar wrote: [...] There is no "risk" in PvE when you have a brain. Risk vs. reward is concerning the risk of other players, not NPCs.
If you have half a brain and can put together a decent fleet and know what you're doing, you shouldn't lost a damn thing to NPCs in PvE. The risk comes from players. There is none in high sec.
People flying 1-3 billion ships on the average. Logi's are about 300-400mil. That gives you 1bn in logis, and a fair 10-20 bn in DPS in solid fleets. Now there is suicide gankers, ECM Burst griefers, griefing Logi, griefing FCs, bad FCs, bad Logis, failfit Logis, disconnecs and idiots in OTAs - this is a very small list - incursions are risky. Don't kid yourself. The fact that incursions require very careful planning and execution - and any derivation means people die proves its the content that is risky.
If Incursions WERE risky then there would be a negative cost incentive in doing so in "1-3bil ISK" ships. Ergo, your whole point disproves itself (well done) and your logic is completely backwards.
I've been doing Incursions for the past few weeks and yes, you can go 120mil an hour without a big sweat. Not a single ship in the fleet I was flying with was ever lost, or got near to such.
Contrast that to running sites in a wormhole when getting your ass raped off is simply a matter of time away.
Anyone who thinks doing PVE in highsec is as dangerous as doing so in nullsec with no local deserves a smack around the head. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
TriadSte
Thr33lance Incorp
3
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Posted - 2011.09.23 14:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Did any of your Logis disconnect?
Did anyone from your fleet who was dual boxing Logis disconnect?
Make no mistake about it Incursions are not easy, I'm quite fortunate and I know some of the best in the business to fly with and yes we are very organised. However It is still easy to lose ships whilst running Incursions.
The DPS is far greater than a C3 and C4 for absolute certain. |
The Feuror
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 14:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
thanks for the replies so far guys
as far as the R&K carrier kill that **** happens R&K will gank you wherever they see fit at least you can make that bill back fairly easy in a C6 |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
67
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Posted - 2011.09.23 14:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
The Feuror wrote:thanks for the replies so far guys
as far as the R&K carrier kill in that **** happens R&K will gank you wherever they see fit at least you can make that bill bake fairly easy in a C6
This is risk. This is why its good that the isk/hr in wh space is high.
You don't have this risk with high sec incursions. Complain about logi/ecm/fc griefers all you want. These are quite easily avoided with proper preparation. These are not real risks.
Incursions in high sec should hit max 50 mil/hr/character, and I'd say that is pushing it right there.
Incursions in low sec, however, should easily exceed 100 mil/hr/character, if not more, as there is real risk there. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
67
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Posted - 2011.09.23 14:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:
The DPS is far greater than a C3 and C4 for absolute certain.
Irrelevant. That DPS is coming from NPCs. Artificial intelligence.
You are presumably a human. As humans, we outsmart any AI CCP throws at us in due time and find effective ways to beat it. Thus, while there is some risk in the beginning, while learning how best to counter new AI, in the long run there is little to no risk if you understand the AI and prepare properly. |
xVx dreadnaught
Rodents of Unusual Size
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 14:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
I enjoy running incursions. It's as much a social event for me as money grinding.
If my fleet is running optimal and every is on form, we can average about 100-120 mill per hour each.
The difference I see for incursions is that you require to be part of a team, some people lack the people skills and or don't want to work with others and so for them running havens, sanctums and worm-holing probably works best.
But if you want to be part of a group, enjoy some laughs and jokes with people and make a poop ton of isk at the same time, then incursions are the thing for you.
Only do something as long as you're having fun. if you're making a ton of isk on your own... but you're bored of the monotony of solo play, give me a shout in game and I'll get you sorted with a fleet. |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
xVx dreadnaught wrote:I enjoy running incursions. It's as much a social event for me as money grinding.
If my fleet is running optimal and every is on form, we can average about 100-120 mill per hour each.
The difference I see for incursions is that you require to be part of a team, some people lack the people skills and or don't want to work with others and so for them running havens, sanctums and worm-holing probably works best.
But if you want to be part of a group, enjoy some laughs and jokes with people and make a poop ton of isk at the same time, then incursions are the thing for you.
Only do something as long as you're having fun. if you're making a ton of isk on your own... but you're bored of the monotony of solo play, give me a shout in game and I'll get you sorted with a fleet.
^Basically this
You solo c3 sites, rats are easy, and yet it still pays more. Higher sites pay far more.
If this is truly unbalanced, all those wh dwellers would move back to highsec en mass for the easy money. You don't see this happening. Action speaks louder than words. |
Elindreal
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:Did any of your Logis disconnect?
Did anyone from your fleet who was dual boxing Logis disconnect?
Make no mistake about it Incursions are not easy, I'm quite fortunate and I know some of the best in the business to fly with and yes we are very organised. However It is still easy to lose ships whilst running Incursions.
The DPS is far greater than a C3 and C4 for absolute certain.
The problem with your list of incursions "risks" is:
A) wormholers potentially face those same risks.
if an RR tengu dc's you lose your RR. if your FC has never done a site or escalation before you are just as in trouble as if you pop that 3rd tama in an OTA.
Your point rests on the assumption that a C6 doesn't require organization and competence...
Perhaps a wh fleet doesn't require the same exactness when it comes to fleet composition and trust, but I don't believe that means highsec incursions are anywhere near as risky as a wormhole.
B) all your risks are 'known' whereas wormhole risks are 'unknown'
Like someone else said, if you're rolling in a 4bn pimped faction ship and still assume there is 'unknown' risk you're a nuttier person than I am. would you take that same fit into a nullsec incursion?
In a wormhole there is always 'unkown' risk. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery Situation: Normal
25
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
TriadSte wrote:Did any of your Logis disconnect?
Did anyone from your fleet who was dual boxing Logis disconnect?
Yes, logi's have DC'd on a few sites. It never presented a problem. Not to mention, there is EQUAL chance of a disconnect occurring in a WH, which invalidates your point. If you're in a fleet with someone whose sole connection (dual boxing logi) is the reason your fleet is alive, you're doing it wrong and it has nothing to do with the inherent risk.
There's no chance the DPS of a Vanguard exceeds a C4 site, even on an OTA blitz.
Quote:Make no mistake about it Incursions are not easy
They're as easy as any PVE content. Grind by the numbers.
You also seem to forget (repeatedly) that the risk in a WH isn't coming from a PVE encounter. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery Situation: Normal
25
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Posted - 2011.09.23 15:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:If this is truly unbalanced, all those wh dwellers would move back to highsec en mass for the easy money. You don't see this happening. Action speaks louder than words.
Add some of the major WH alliances to your contacts list. Done?
Right.
Now go into an incursion constellation.
You'll see a whole **** load of WH residents there, as well as lots of nullsec folk.
So much so, it was awkard for me to get fleets as BUGRY are set -10 to most WH alliances - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
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